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US PRIMARIES - based on issues only - no "isms"


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hi i thought i would start this thread so we can discuss what we would like to see changed or staying the same in our country.

 

please look at issues - not color, sex - and it would be great if we could even leave parties out (but not required) out - just the issues and candidates.

 

remember this is not a drunken fest - so lets be polite :)

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I think something needs to be done about the healthcare crises. We are the only industrialized nation without universal health care, With 49 million uninsured and an unknown amount under insured something needs to be done.

 

I think we need to get out of Iraq. We started a problem that caused a mess but now things are for the most part under control. There is no need to continue to occupy another country that has never been a military threat, has its own government, constitution, laws, police and military. Not to mention we can’t afford it. Our national debt is in the trillions from this war and growing.

 

Something needs to be done about these home foreclosures that are making the US dollar plummet. I don't think a bail out to a certain few who bought negligently is the answer but some solution needs to be made. I heard an interesting trickle down effect because of these foreclosures. Since property taxes are not being payed on these foreclosed homes certain city services such as fire and police are beginning to suffer because there is just not enough money being generated for them.

 

I was watching Obama talk about an interesting bill he has proposed. He wants elections to be funded by the government. What a great idea. This would stop special interests groups such as drug companies and lobbyists from buying a candidate into office; it would also put all the candidates on the same playing field. As it is now a multi millionaire has an unfair advantage.

 

Dave

 

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I think something needs to be done about the healthcare crises. We are the only industrialized nation without universal health care, With 49 million uninsured and an unknown amount under insured something needs to be done.

 

hi dave - i just came from mayo - i have never been prescribed drugs at mayo - one of the reasons is this - drug reps are forbidden from showing their face there.  another thing is this they are expert diagnosticians and they work well with each other - they understand their specialties and they are quick to refer for specific issues AFTER they thoroughly examine and diagnose issues related to their expertise - they use specific test to hone in on the problem AND they know how to efficiency and effectively bill insurance companies.(/quote)

 

there is no reason why doctors everywhere cannot live up to those standards - doctors used to practice medicine now they are drug dealers.

 

it is my fear with all the corruption in or present government that patients would be required to take drugs - would be required to be part of experimentation without any options - right now traditional doctors enter "non compliant - but my insurance still pays - under a national plan they may refuse me treatment or not pay if i am non compliant.

 

lobbyists have there feet why too deep in politics for us to be safe with government control of medicine. 

 

although i understand health care in other countries is both cheaper and more effective - most likely they are not over run with lobbyist. 

 

we have a capitalist form of government that has been convoluted in interpretation to mean that profit is more important then quality.  it does not have to be that way - but for now it is that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think we need to get out of Iraq. We started a problem that caused a mess but now things are for the most part under control. There is no need to continue to occupy another country that has never been a military threat, has its own government, constitution, laws, police and military. Not to mention we can’t afford it. Our national debt is in the trillions from this war and growing.

 

as for iraq - the invasion of iraq violates our rules of engagement - they did not attack us - there was no reason to invade them.  before invading them the plans were laid to secure the oil fields - no guessing there what that was about.  it is my belief that whose evers idea it was to invade them should be brought up on charges of war profiteering and treason - they have greatly undermined our countries security by invading a country that has not attacked us and has caused the loss of life dramatically for the Iraqi people as well as placing our military in harms way for the purpose of profiteering.

 

they have also used american funds to build a private army that answers to no one and that is one of the largest reasons for the iraq/afghanistani engagement.  it was a hand full of people who attacked us NOT A COUNTRY - and the people who attacked us were not even from iraq - they were saudi's - our ally (?) not.  and bush just left saudi arabia after giving them weapons of mass destruction - see where i am going with this - do we want people like that involved in our health care?  - first clean up the government - then talk about putting our lives in their hands - maybe.

 

Something needs to be done about these home foreclosures that are making the US dollar plummet. I don't think a bail out to a certain few who bought negligently is the answer but some solution needs to be made. I heard an interesting trickle down effect because of these foreclosures. Since property taxes are not being payed on these foreclosed homes certain city services such as fire and police are beginning to suffer because there is just not enough money being generated for them.

 

a lot of those people being forclosed on qualified for legitimate loans - they were steered to people who were not regulated by law - so for those people i say give them a break.  as for people using property for investment purposes only - i don't thing they need or deserve a bail out.

 

I was watching Obama talk about an interesting bill he has proposed. He wants elections to be funded by the government. What a great idea. This would stop special interests groups such as drug companies and lobbyists from buying a candidate into office; it would also put all the candidates on the same playing field. As it is now a multi millionaire has an unfair advantage.Dave

 

it would help if there were serious limits on what could be spent on elections - that way candidates would be challenged to address what is important to the people - right now candidates are just skipping over issues - they are not really addressing the corruption in the system.  they are not really addressing energy alternatives - they are not really addressing anything - they are just throwing phrases around.

 

now if they had to develop support - develop the will of people to volunteer there time - then they just might get real.

 

did you see that kucinich was granted the right to appear and nbc blocked his appearance - i think he should sue them for several billion and run next time to.

 

i just felt like all the candidates said was blah blah blah blah and i just loved how edwards dressed hillary out everything she tried to pin something on her. :2funny:

 

this splitting posts thing is pretty tricky

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Silver, I fixed the quote thingys for you. One of the great perks of being a mod LOL. 

 

 

My biggest gripe here is our busted health care system. I watched Michael Moore's "SICKO" and was that an eye opener.  The rescue workers from the Twin Towers got better health care in a Havana hospital than they did in the US and it was free. One lady had an inhaler which cost her $150. a month. In Havana it was something like 5 pesos.  WHAAAT?  Sicko.  Something is really wrong with this country.

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christine thank you for fixing my quotes - i thought maybe i got it right after all and then i read your post.

 

sicko was good - but it did not deal with the all over corruption thing - just he profit motive of insurance companies - that is corrupt - but he leverage of the pharmaceutical companies is just as corrupt if not more so.

 

we are being used as guinea pigs - that is what worries me about nationalizing health care w/o first stopping corruptions.

 

when profit is the under lying outcome of any program - be it defense, environment or health care - then we are giving our country away and being screwed all at the same time.

 

under the name of free enterprise consumers have lost most of their rights - that is what i am suspicious about with any government program - even civil service is being outsourced to the private sector at a much higher cost then then using civil servants, there is a powerful secret military that has been funded by the tax payers, defense contracts that have put us in debt from now until when i don't know.  bridges collapsing - dyke's dissolving - all of this work is paid with public funds and outsourced in sweet heart deals - with real bad results the army corps of engineers used to be responsible for stuff dealing with bridges, dykes and dams.

 

the theory of a national health care system is good - but what if the government determines guidelines that would harm us - they have determined rules of engagement that violate the constitution - they have not funded the food and drug administration, they have personally profited from irresponsible decisions in many areas via lobbyists and setting up sweet heart deals for themselves once out of office.

 

national health care is a must - but i think corruption needs to be dealt with first - none of the front runners are discussing corruption - they are just treating like bad policy - it needs to and most likely is illegal and perpetrators need to be prosecuted for undermining the security of this country.

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How about that drop in the stock market today? The day after such a drop the investors can pay bargain prices on stock so the market almost always rebounds. I wonder what it will do tomorrow with talk that we are in a recession. I bet the economy will now become the top issue in the primaries.

Dave     

 

 

 

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[b1...]

Hi All:

 

This is a really good idea, Silver, to focus on issues, not personalities.

 

I agree with everyone that healthcare is a critical issue in the U.S. but I am not sure how it can be addressed cost effectively unless financed by tax dollars. That does not mean a universal healthcare system should be administered by the government; private healthcare organizations can do that much more effectively.

 

You probably already know this but cost effective healthcare is based upon the concept of having large pools of insured individuals -- the more people in the "pool", the more the costs are spread around. The healthier individuals in the "pool" basically subsidize the unhealthier ones who utilize the system more. 

 

The private "managed care" trend of the 90s attempted to create such large pools of insured individuals but that experiment failed pretty miserably and people like me and my husband are paying thousands of dollars each year for health insurance. And we are fortunate because we can (barely) afford it. Those who can't wind up getting very expensive care in emergency rooms because by law they cannot be turned away. And the cost of emergency room care for uninsured people gets shifted to those who can pay. It is a vicious cycle. I have watched several major hospitals in my city shut down over the last decade because they simply could not afford to keep caring for the uninsured.

 

I agree with whoever said it, healthcare and profit do not mix at all. I  used to work in managed care and listened to physician executives make decisions on a regular basis about who would and would not get care based upon the healthcare status of the patient. They were not supposed to do that but they did and now that kind of decision-making is even more blatant.

 

While a government funded healthcare system would not be perfect, I think it would be fairer and ultimately, much more effective than what we have now. Continuing with the current hodgepodge patchwork of publicly and privately funded healthcare options will deprive an increasing number of people of basic medical care and ultimately, create an increasingly unhealthy society and cost us all a lot more money.

 

Kristin

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"President Bush is putting together his first public call for an emergency fiscal stimulus bill while negotiations on Capitol Hill focus on rebates for taxpayers and other steps to jump-start the sagging economy.

 

 

 

Bush planned to lay out his position Friday, but he wasn't expected to go into specifics. Press secretary Dana Perino said Bush would demand that any package be effective, simple and temporary — mirroring calls by Democratic lawmakers for a "timely, targeted and temporary" stimulus measure.

 

Taxpayers could receive rebates of up to $800 for individuals and $1,600 for married couples under a White House plan. Although lawmakers were considering smaller rebate checks and more money for food stamp recipients and the unemployed, Bush told congressional leaders that he favors income tax rebates for people and tax breaks for business investment." -quoted from Yahoo news

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That sounds like a good plan.It puts money back into the pockets of WORKING class Americans,not those who are looking for another government handout.  :wacko:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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How about that drop in the stock market today? The day after such a drop the investors can pay bargain prices on stock so the market almost always rebounds. I wonder what it will do tomorrow with talk that we are in a recession. I bet the economy will now become the top issue in the primaries.

Dave     

 

 

 

 

It's still down today. I lost money.

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i don't really understand the stock market - what i look for is how are people doing with the the money they have - so i tend to look at things like the homeless rates, runs on the food pantry's and loss of insurance as economic indicators.

 

unemployment doesn't even seem to be a good indicator as it runs out and people are no longer considered unemployed.

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The Stock market is still down. We probably are in a recession. I don't think Bush’s plan on giving tax rebates will do much to stimulate the economy long term. I gladly will accept my check and be waiting impatiently by the mailbox for it but still don't think it will do much overall good. When I was out today I noticed how crowded the stores were I don't think consumer spending is the problem.

 

It sounds like what the market wants is a drop in interest rates. I don’t think that's a good idea. When interest rates drop home prices go up. With the value of the U.S dollar being so low home prices are greatly higher then their actual value. If interest rates go down the value of homes will go again higher on paper but the actual value will be even lower but will further raise property taxes. It will raise rents that will in turn raise homelessness

Dave

 

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I think that is such a great idea that South Carolina's Primary’s will be on a Saturday. It never made any sense to me that elections are normally on Tuesdays. A day of the week that most people work and if you work late or have traveling time you just don't get to vote. I think people should have days to vote at their convenience and at any polling place.

 

Dave

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I seen an odd example today how a country not having universal healthcare can effect jobs being able to stay in our country. I saw a candy that I ate as a child. It was made right outside Chicago. I had to buy the small box since I haven't seen it in years. To my surprise it said “Made in Canada” for this Chicago Company.

 

Health insurance is so expensive that it costs employers and employees a small fortune. It only makes sense to move your factory to Canada where you or your employee does not have the expense of their healthcare. How can a US company compete and still offer health care? I would imagine this candy factory outside Chicago is closed and its employees unemployed.

 

Dave

 

 

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To my surprise it said “Made in Canada” for this Chicago Company.

 

 

 

Better Canada than China. IMO

 

But I guess out of country is out of country. Whether it's across the border or across the world.

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The point I was trying to make was this long time American Company probably had to relocate to Canada because of the lack of universal healthcare in this country. Health insurance is very expensive for a company to pay and still be able to compete with the others in that industry.

 

Something I find interesting about things being made in China. There is a large fortune cookie factory in Chicago that makes them for restaurants across the country. Of all the many things made in China today you would at least think fortune cookies would be one of them.

Dave

 

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Something I find interesting about things being made in China. There is a large fortune cookie factory in Chicago that makes them for restaurants across the country. Of all the many things made in China today you would at least think fortune cookies would be one of them.

Dave

 

 

That is pretty funny. Probably because they are so cheap to make, it may have a high profit margin.

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Well, we have now lost Hershey candy bars and all Hershey products in the US...they have moved to Mexico.  This long standing American product which has its roots in ages long ago has also packed up and left.  I don't think the tax refund is going to help much...what will that do...buy gas for a few weeks for some?  We need to wake up and see the reality of what is happening in this country...the gap between the rich and the poor is widening and there is a viscious feedback loop that is going to be impossible to break.  It all gets a little disheartening.  Janus+
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Well, we have now lost Hershey candy bars and all Hershey products in the US...they have moved to Mexico.  This long standing American product which has its roots in ages long ago has also packed up and left.  I don't think the tax refund is going to help much...what will that do...buy gas for a few weeks for some?  We need to wake up and see the reality of what is happening in this country...the gap between the rich and the poor is widening and there is a viscious feedback loop that is going to be impossible to break.  It all gets a little disheartening.  Janus+

 

I never understood what the deal was with Bush's tax cuts and tax refunds, when we are a trillion dollars in debt. Huh??? ???

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yep we have a two tier system were anyone making under what? 200 grand pay taxes and the top 1% controlled most of the wealth and most of their money is tax free.

 

now we are where at where we where  before during the roaring 20's - it was stopped by the great depression.  it is projected that this economic crunch will affect then next tier up - the tier that thought hey were so smart and were not affected by such things as foreclosure and homelessness - that should really help to jell voting choices when people realize they are all part of the conditions that affect everyone.

 

bush who is so out of touch with everything - thinks a few hundred bucks will boost the economy and it will long enough for people to get further in debt from a 1 month splurge.

 

i consider myself to be very good with money - but right now i have bills that i am renegotiating to pay a small amount every month - fortunately there is no interest or penalty.

 

lowering the interest may help if people are in a position to get out of bad loans - but many of those bad loans have early payment penalties.  lowering the interest will do nothing to boost the personal savings amount.

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- but many of those bad loans have early payment penalties. 

 

That's another stupid practice. Imagine getting penalized for paying off your debt early.  (shakes head)

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money means nothing to bush - he has bankrupted anything he has ever been in charge of - i think this country was just a piggy bank to break into in order to redistribute the wealth.

 

cheney is now work 25 billion bucks - thanks to his ties to defense contracts - he can't touch the money while in office (legally) - but he sure was in position to set it up for when he got out.

 

the final goal for some criminally insane people is to build a secret army (black water) aptly named.

 

black water is another term used for sewage .

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[b1...]

Has anyone seen or heard about the book "Free Lunch" by David K. Johnston? I saw him last night on Bill Moyers Journal and heard him on NPR last week. It is pretty depressing to hear how we have returned to the days of the robber barons when the gap between rich and poor is ever-widening. He describes in the book how government policies have slowly changed since the fifties from supporting the middle class to simply enriching the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle classes.

 

I agree with all of you that, under the present circumstances, a tax cut is a joke. Gee, mine will probably go towards paying one month's health insurance premium. Now that really adds to the economy.

 

Kristin

 

 

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i missed bill moyers last night - that show is a wealth of information.

 

no i don't read about that stuff anymore - i become rabid - i do watch cspan to get direct unedited news - hearings are very revealing - it all comes out - never acted on and never reported in the media but it is transparent as can be.

 

i immersed myself in news from several different countries after 9/11 - i live and see the real issues - and watch lou dobbs sometimes well actually i am addicted to news - i just think i have quit watching it - it is so superficial and divisive - many if not most of the news outlets are heavily invested in war profiteering.

 

election debates or little more then infomercials - who gets to talk - the questions all of it is so stilted.

 

bill moyers cuts thru the stuff and pulls out the truth - for a while he was fired you know - protests brought him back.

 

i am trying to get back to jon steward and cobert - cause they make me laugh at what is happening.  when we all laugh then this insanity will stop - thats what i think.

 

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