Why stop benzos if they help?

[[Gr...]]

Chris . Another thing you might want to think about. When people get older and have to go into nursing homes the states require they take them off these drugs for awhile. I don't know why. Some kind of evaluation. They did it to my 90 year old aunt and she went thtough hell untill they put her back on it. Also the laws may get tougher and everyone may have to stop them . I know in parts of newyork they can only prescribe them short term.

 

That is horrible that they did that to your aunt.  I can't even imagine that.  :'(

[[To...]]

Yes. It was. And it happens all the time in nursing homes. Some BS law . She was hallucinating and her private doctor couldn't do anything . After two weeks they reinstated and she was ok but it was terrible.

[[on...]]

Chris- I took xanax for thirty years and thought it was the only thing that kept me from having panic attacks. I now realize that the xanax was causing a lot of my anxiety and agitation when it was close to the time to take my next dose. That being said I think the biggest reason to get off benzos  is to be free of the dependence. For so many years I was at the whim of my doctor to keep prescribing them and my pharmacy to refill the prescription. I was in a state of total panic when my doctor retired a few years back and I didn't know if my  new doctor would keep prescribing it. I felt like my life was not in my control. I had to plan my vacations for  in between refills as New York State only prescribes 30 days at a time. I worried about losing my  pills and not being able to get a refill. Now a year after my jump I no longer think constantlly  about xanax. I don't think about it at all.  I am in control of my life. It is a wonderful feeling and worth all the struggles to get here. I will never be dependent on that pill or on  my doctor or my pharmacist. I am free. That is the true  reason to quit benzos!

[[cs...]]

Great comments from all.  I just have a few things to add, that have come to mind over the past 6 months of tapering.

1. If you have been prescribed benzos for sleep, it's literally like using a sledge hammer to screw in a screw.  You can get the job done, but it creates an awful mess.  I've studied countless hours about sleep and neurotransmitters and hormones. GABA receptors are a caveman's solution to getting someone to sleep properly.  And I am not anti-drug or anti pharmacy.  GABA receptors are the primitive, archaic easy go to solution for medical issues like sleep disorders.

When scientists look back at the Benzo medical era a hundred years from now, as a treatment for sleep disorders, they will cringe at the thought of using benzodiazaphines as a therapeutic agent.  They will understand all of the hormones and neurotransmitters that are involved in properly regulated sleep, and they will realize that hitting GABA receptors is, at best, just a temporary solution to a complex disorder.  They will  clearly understand that in the long term,  benzodiazaphines dysregulate the very hormones and neurotransmitters that are required for proper sleep.    Sleep actually gets worse the longer you are on these drugs,

 

2. If you choose or need to stay on them, please heed my advice and try to maintain steady state.  I hit tolerance after nightly dosing only with a short acting Benzo.  Dosing as prescribed.  It took 2.5 years for my brain to destabilize.  Within a few months of my first symptom, I was in complete tolerance..  Some never reach tolerance, or never get kindled through interdose withdrawal.  They are truly fortunate.  Keep the serum levels steady if you really need to be on these drugs to avoid tolerance.  You will know it when it happens.   

 

3. I did not know anything about how a panic disorder felt like until after I was on benzodiazaphines.  I had never had them prior to using benzodiazaphines.

[[Da...]]

You will definitely know when you've hit tolerance, your body will tell you and you'll feel awful. I was in tolerance for many months not understanding why I felt so sick this in turn led me to investigate and hence opened the can of worms!

[[Er...]]

it's always better to live without pills, if only for kidney damage.

[[La...]]

I'm just jumping in here since a fellow BB mentioned this interesting thread to me. In my case, I became dizzy as a result of taking benzodiazepines. There are known as "vestibular suppressants" in the medical literature, and they interfere with your sense of balance. I can tell you from experience that once it happens, there's no way to get better and be able to walk again if you continue to take them. They have a cumulative effect. And for some of us, it can take a long time for the vestibular system to normalize.

 

For me, the benzos worked for awhile. But my panic attacks worsened. And I agree with dm123 about the negative effects on the quality of sleep. From the literature I read, it seems that the benzos change the sleep cycle (i.e. the alpha, beta, gamma, delta, REM cycle) for the worse, so while you may be sleeping, you may not be sleeping well or deeply.

 

And the dizziness is completely brutal. It's disabling. It makes you housebound and feeble. Life as you know it comes to a complete stop. Until I found out that the benzos -- yes, even my "low dose" -- were causing my dizziness, I had no idea what was going on. As I weeded out the various possible causes of dizziness, all arrows pointed to the benzodiazepines. It took two years to find that out -- which meant two more years of accumulated vestibular suppression to try to recover from. Brutal.

 

As well, there's little study of the long term brain effects of benzodiazepines. It's a crap shoot. Much of how we metabolize medications is genetic, and we can't predict with any certainty how any given person will do over the long term. If one is willing to take the chance that s/he'll be lucky and not develop cognitive decline, dizziness/disequilibrium, tinnitus, memory problems, muscular weakness, increasing panic attacks, poorer sleep, slower reaction time, dementia/Alzheimers, respiratory changes, interactions with other medications or alcohol, etc., then that's a lot of risk to take. I really wish I'd be informed of such things BEFORE I ever started taking the medication. I never would have taken one pill. Informed consent means that one is told clearly of the above possible outcomes. I didn't get that opportunity, and I believe many others here didn't either.

 

Some will be lucky. Some won't. I wasn't.

[[Es...]]

Hey Chris82,

 

If you stay on benzos, it's only when your addiction pdoc sees no other choice.

 

If all the other alternative psych meds haven't worked.

 

It's good to become clean even for a few mos and see if you can function.

 

You stay on the minimal, consistent dose.

 

It is called "harm reduction".

 

You will suffer, but may be able to function.

 

Provided it's the minimum dose and you don't exceed it no matter what.

 

Take care,

Estee

[[Su...]]

Just found this thread.

I too did not feel any negative effects from Xanax having taken them for about 17 years.

I trekked the Himalaya's,  travelled on my own for months at times, worked full time, had a social life and most importantly could sleep when I needed to.  I could go away for a weekend with people and not be concerned about not sleeping.  In short even though I was going up in dosage it all seemed just fine!  My doctor never questioned me when i asked for a slightly larger dose.

 

I had read the Ashton Manual, but in true denial form, didn't think it sounded that tough to come off and thought I would do that when I retired.

 

THEN I started to get interdose w/d. about a year ago.  About 4:30 in the afternoon my chest would get tight, everything would get tight, and I would become anxious.

AND  my memory was becoming kind of a joke.  I saw someone look at me when I asked a question about a conversation we had just had and their eyes got really big!  The memory issues are what made me realize that if i didn't want to drive myself into early dementia -- no one said that I just saw that as a possibility -- and I decided to start this process.

 

So you may be someone who doesn't get any negative side effects for many years, or possibly never, but now I sure wish I had started tapering on a lower dose!!  But here I am and here we all are on BB.  So glad for BB!

[[lo...]]

What makes benzos so much worse than any other medication for other conditions? If taking a therapeutic dose and not abusing them. I was put on klonopin because i was having panic attacks all day every day. I tapererd down amd guess what? Back to continuous panic attacks. Ive been on it for around 14 years and have no side effects that I know of. No tolerance withdrawal. Whatever that is which doesnt even really make sense. No memory loss that im aware of. So why is this drug labeled so horrible if it helps? Why suffer instead of taking something? Its just my opinion that those that are supposedly protracted for years and so on are just back to their same problems and not being medicated properly.  Thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

 

People vary greatly in how they react to these drugs, Chris.  I had an adverse reaction from the very beginning but it wasn't recognised.  I took it for 40 years and it had a terrible effect on my life.  Now off it, very protracted, physically disabled at 4 years off.  Now I know other women who have taken the same drug (nitrazepam) for 40 years at the same dose and they have not had any problems.  Similarly people vary in how badly they are affected by withdrawal.

 

So really it is up to you.  Know what the risks are.  Decide for yourself.  Personally I would not have kept taking it but I had epilepsy and felt I had no choice.  Research studies do link benzos to a higher risk of cancer, Alzheimer's, premature death but all these are still being debated.  Many people do not realise the drug is a problem until they try to come off it and therein lies the biggest problem. It is also linked to cognitive problems particularly in older age.  I assume you are still reasonably young so you may not be too concerned about these effects in later life.

 

We all have to make judgements and weigh up the pros and cons.

 

 

[[...]]

Just found this thread.

I too did not feel any negative effects from Xanax having taken them for about 17 years.

I trekked the Himalaya's,  travelled on my own for months at times, worked full time, had a social life and most importantly could sleep when I needed to.  I could go away for a weekend with people and not be concerned about not sleeping.  In short even though I was going up in dosage it all seemed just fine!  My doctor never questioned me when i asked for a slightly larger dose.

 

I had read the Ashton Manual, but in true denial form, didn't think it sounded that tough to come off and thought I would do that when I retired.

 

THEN I started to get interdose w/d. about a year ago.  About 4:30 in the afternoon my chest would get tight, everything would get tight, and I would become anxious.

AND  my memory was becoming kind of a joke.  I saw someone look at me when I asked a question about a conversation we had just had and their eyes got really big!  The memory issues are what made me realize that if i didn't want to drive myself into early dementia -- no one said that I just saw that as a possibility -- and I decided to start this process.

 

So you may be someone who doesn't get any negative side effects for many years, or possibly never, but now I sure wish I had started tapering on a lower dose!!  But here I am and here we all are on BB.  So glad for BB!

 

Same here. I had a great life while on benzo.

But the dizzines and high and low BP started to make me housebound in 2015.

The panic attacks was getting way worse than before benzo. And trouble walking. I did not think that was because of the benzos. Now I know.

My memory was good. Everybody told me that my memory was almost scary, they felt like they where loosing there memory.

Now during withdrawal my memory is gone. The dizzines is bad, BP a joke.

 

But holding on to benzos in the long term is not a choice I will make.

Been there done that.

Even if I feel like crap now. There must be an end to this.

 

 

[[Ch...]]

Just found this thread.

I too did not feel any negative effects from Xanax having taken them for about 17 years.

I trekked the Himalaya's,  travelled on my own for months at times, worked full time, had a social life and most importantly could sleep when I needed to.  I could go away for a weekend with people and not be concerned about not sleeping.  In short even though I was going up in dosage it all seemed just fine!  My doctor never questioned me when i asked for a slightly larger dose.

 

I had read the Ashton Manual, but in true denial form, didn't think it sounded that tough to come off and thought I would do that when I retired.

 

THEN I started to get interdose w/d. about a year ago.  About 4:30 in the afternoon my chest would get tight, everything would get tight, and I would become anxious.

AND  my memory was becoming kind of a joke.  I saw someone look at me when I asked a question about a conversation we had just had and their eyes got really big!  The memory issues are what made me realize that if i didn't want to drive myself into early dementia -- no one said that I just saw that as a possibility -- and I decided to start this process.

 

So you may be someone who doesn't get any negative side effects for many years, or possibly never, but now I sure wish I had started tapering on a lower dose!!  But here I am and here we all are on BB.  So glad for BB!

 

As in your experience, I had no noticeable side effects.  I was on Temazepam for decades without any problems except for an increase from 10mg to 20mg over the years, which my doctor was okay with.  I went off when I was pregnant with my daughter and then back on several years later when she was weaned. 

 

After a family tragedy I was put on Xanax and dropped the Temazepam cold turkey (no symptoms).  The increases in dose were necessary much more often and I went from half of a .25mg PRN to 2mg daily in 9 years.  Looking back, there were psychological and physical side effects of Xanax, though I didn't realize it at the time.  Those things happened when tolerance set in, and tolerance set in quickly and frequently.  I was dependent on regular doses during the day to keep myself out of withdrawal, but I didn't know it was withdrawal that was causing the anxiety/panic, I thought I'd developed an anxiety disorder due to trauma.

 

I had not.  The anxiety went away once I was off Xanax for only a short time.  I feel better now than I have in decades, though it was a long time getting where I am now.

 

We owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves about prescription medications and weigh the advantages and disadvantages of use.

[Guest [re...]]

Valium worked well for me the whole time. I never took more than I was prescribed. I'm tapering because I was hit with a very eye opening epiphany last Christmas. I was traveling out of state to visit relatives and I ran out of Valium because of how the cutoff of my refill was and how the weekend fell (pharmacy was closed). Then when I went the next day for my  refill, the pharmacy was out. I was terrified like I've never been in my life not having that med in my possession. I got my refill the next day with relief, but that fear of not having it forced me to really look at myself. I did research on benzos and discovered there is Harvard research that linked long term use to Alzheimer's/Dementia. Very scary. I also watch the news and see that the DEA is really cracking down on controlled substances. These drugs are killing too many people. Pretty soon doctors will have so much heat on them they will be afraid to write prescriptions for controls. And everyone will get hit, even the responsible ones. Most of all, I decided I will NOT be a slave to this drug! I decided I would taper off now while I can be in control of the process. It's been difficult so far but the reward of being  free in the end will be SO worth it. Those are my reasons. Good luck and this forum is fantastic and will be there in your darkest days.

[[Su...]]

Valium worked well for me the whole time. I never took more than I was prescribed. I'm tapering because I was hit with a very eye opening epiphany last Christmas. I was traveling out of state to visit relatives and I ran out of Valium because of how the cutoff of my refill was and how the weekend fell (pharmacy was closed). Then when I went the next day for my  refill, the pharmacy was out. I was terrified like I've never been in my life not having that med in my possession. I got my refill the next day with relief, but that fear of not having it forced me to really look at myself. I did research on benzos and discovered there is Harvard research that linked long term use to Alzheimer's/Dementia. Very scary. I also watch the news and see that the DEA is really cracking down on controlled substances. These drugs are killing too many people. Pretty soon doctors will have so much heat on them they will be afraid to write prescriptions for controls. And everyone will get hit, even the responsible ones. Most of all, I decided I will NOT be a slave to this drug! I decided I would taper off now while I can be in control of the process. It's been difficult so far but the reward of being  free in the end will be SO worth it. Those are my reasons. Good luck and this forum is fantastic and will be there in your darkest days.

 

The quote thing doesn't seem to work for me.  Good to know there is research out there about dementia.alzheimer around benzos.... Makes all this worth it.  I don't want to get dementia, I'll just continue being a batty old lady. 

[[Su...]]

Just found this thread.

I too did not feel any negative effects from Xanax having taken them for about 17 years.

I trekked the Himalaya's,  travelled on my own for months at times, worked full time, had a social life and most importantly could sleep when I needed to.  I could go away for a weekend with people and not be concerned about not sleeping.  In short even though I was going up in dosage it all seemed just fine!  My doctor never questioned me when i asked for a slightly larger dose.

 

I had read the Ashton Manual, but in true denial form, didn't think it sounded that tough to come off and thought I would do that when I retired.

 

THEN I started to get interdose w/d. about a year ago.  About 4:30 in the afternoon my chest would get tight, everything would get tight, and I would become anxious.

AND  my memory was becoming kind of a joke.  I saw someone look at me when I asked a question about a conversation we had just had and their eyes got really big!  The memory issues are what made me realize that if i didn't want to drive myself into early dementia -- no one said that I just saw that as a possibility -- and I decided to start this process.

 

So you may be someone who doesn't get any negative side effects for many years, or possibly never, but now I sure wish I had started tapering on a lower dose!!  But here I am and here we all are on BB.  So glad for BB!

 

As in your experience, I had no noticeable side effects.  I was on Temazepam for decades without any problems except for an increase from 10mg to 20mg over the years, which my doctor was okay with.  I went off when I was pregnant with my daughter and then back on several years later when she was weaned. 

 

After a family tragedy I was put on Xanax and dropped the Temazepam cold turkey (no symptoms).  The increases in dose were necessary much more often and I went from half of a .25mg PRN to 2mg daily in 9 years.  Looking back, there were psychological and physical side effects of Xanax, though I didn't realize it at the time.  Those things happened when tolerance set in, and tolerance set in quickly and frequently.  I was dependent on regular doses during the day to keep myself out of withdrawal, but I didn't know it was withdrawal that was causing the anxiety/panic, I thought I'd developed an anxiety disorder due to trauma.

 

I had not.  The anxiety went away once I was off Xanax for only a short time.  I feel better now than I have in decades, though it was a long time getting where I am now.

 

We owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves about prescription medications and weigh the advantages and disadvantages of use.

 

Don't know if my mac is up to this, this quotes don't work.  It's good to know that the anxiety went away after you tapered.  I know I was anxious before I started this med but have learned way more skills to deal with that since I began this drug. 

Oh and my sleep, which I took the med for in the first place has changed dramatically.  I know I'm more rested even when I haven't slept that many hours.  Another reason to get off, we just don't know what these meds are doing to us!!

[[gi...]]

Benzos works very well until they don't. They can work months and years...Suddenly you will hit tolerance and get tolerance withdrawal...and the hell has started

 

Exactly!

[Guest [ou...]]

Things do not usually come in black and white like agree/disagree.

They usually come in shades of grey (about 50 or so I'm told ).

I hardly dare to say it, but if I had to pick a side, I would agree with Chris82.

 

That said, that is the short answer.

The long answer is you should consider using benzos long-term only if:

1. Your condition is chronic and severe.

2. It is not manageable with other medication.

3. You do not experience reduced effectiveness (a sign of tolerance).

 

There appears to be a rather small minority of people who meet those criteria.

If you are indeed part of that minority, there is no reason not to do what's best for your health.

 

Regards.

[Guest [Lu...]]

im amazed that even on a board like this, people refuse to believe in the experiences of others who have gone through hell for prolonged periods of time, its one of the reasons i backed off posting here. so many people deny the existence of "tolerance withdrawal" or whatever term you want to call it. i cant understand that. its right here, happening to many people.

 

believe me, it exists. my life went from a healthy active one to a complete and utter nightmarish hell thanks to tolerance on diazepam. it took me nearly a year of suffering, racing to every dr i could think of, tests, mri's, etc etc. i was totally whacked out and suffering long before i had any idea about withdrawal from benzos.

 

these drugs were NEVER MEANT to be taken for years or decades at a time. many, maybe even most people get away with it, but contributing factors or changes can absolutely lead you into tolerance. the irony for me was the healthier i tried to make my lifestyle, the more the benzo backfired on me. im now sacrificing my mid 40s trying to heal from this and desperately hold onto what aspects pf my life i can.

 

if there was a poster child for tolerance withdrawal itd be right here. i never crossed drugs, never did multiple benzos or took more amounts than prescribed, and i descended into hell with this.

 

i mean no disrespect to OP or anyone here, im a bit more scathing these days cause im flat out exhausted and pissed off at all this. its been a helluva difficult time

[[ma...]]

I have a horrible, painful muscular or neurological condition that affects my ears and my face.  So far benzos are the only treatment that put any sort of dent in it, and they even do so at pretty low doses.  3-4mg of diazepam completely eliminates the facial symptoms and has remained effective for nearly a year now without tolerance.  Before that I was on higher doses (1.5mg lorazepam) for 2 years.  So my tolerance has not risen.

 

I know it's bad to stay on benzos forever, and that's why I'm tapering.  But is it really worth the suffering?  What other options do I have?

[[Wo...]]

Eventually this shit stops working.  Then u feel sick in between doses.  And then the dosage has to be increased.  But that doesn't work.  You still feel like shit.  You feel worse then before u started the drug.  But you can't just quit the drug because you become seriously dope sick like being a junkie but longer term.

[[pa...]]

I believe is all individual.  I can tell you right now, if I had a need for benzos and had no dependency which I never did then I have no problem using it until my last day. But when you use something and you still feel sick then is not for you.  In my case, I had what the Doc called a panic attack so he gave me benzos.  During this time I was dizzy 24/7 and the word was dark. When I took my first dose of xanax it was like the miracle pill because it made me feel 100% better in 20 minutes. ;-)  But then since I did not want to go higher symptoms started to show, some which I believe came from Diazepam itself.  So I realize or I go up and get stuck or quit now that I'm still at a low/average dose.  I decided to quit which I did 36 days ago.  Some withdraw but overall better than most. 

 

I truly believe in most cases you need to go up or change to another benzo in order to continue to receive the benefits. I have a friend in the early 50"s which has been using high doses of benzos for 20 years. He has used 4 of them and is now on Diazepam 10-40mg daily.  But before this one he used another benzo which was good for him and after 7 years using it he had this uncontrollable burping, and yes it was the benzo so they changed it to diazepam.

 

So in conclusion, you both are 50% right. ;-)  Like I said, give me something that works for me and doesn't require you to go up every month without any bad side effect and I'll stick with you to the end.  If not, then is not for you and you need to change or quit.

[[Wo...]]

It used to work fine for me for many years. Then one day it stopped working after about 15 fucking years.

 

There are probably a lot of people out there that get sick and don't realize that it is because of their benzos.

[[er...]]

If I knew my life was going to turn into this torturous hell I would have NEVER started a taper. Someone that is doing well on a benzo is not going to come here and talk about it. They have no need to. When I told the doctor that was prescribing the Xanax that (He warned me not to go off of it) I was thinking of joining a taper support group he said that all I would see is the horror stories. He's retired now so with all the anti-benzo rage going on I'm f**ked.  I ONLY started a taper because every time I had to spend an extended time in a hospital doctors kept trying to stop me cold turkey from a high dose of Xanax. I was afraid one of them was going to kill me. I wish they had. Even Dr. Ashton that everyone worships says that no one should be denied a benzo. People seem to leave that little tidbit out.

[[Es...]]

If I knew my life was going to turn into this torturous hell I would have NEVER started a taper. Someone that is doing well on a benzo is not going to come here and talk about it. They have no need to. When I told the doctor that was prescribing the Xanax that (He warned me not to go off of it) I was thinking of joining a taper support group he said that all I would see is the horror stories. He's retired now so with all the anti-benzo rage going on I'm f**ked.  I ONLY started a taper because every time I had to spend an extended time in a hospital doctors kept trying to stop me cold turkey from a high dose of Xanax. I was afraid one of them was going to kill me. I wish they had. Even Dr. Ashton that everyone worships says that no one should be denied a benzo. People seem to leave that little tidbit out.

 

Yeah, I kind of agree. I’ve got many pdocs who allow me to stay on a minimal dose of Valium for sleep. Like 10 mg. Forcing one to CT benzos if they don’t want to is a fascist attitude. And Ashton was strongly against it. As the effect achieved was the opposite. What really sucks about benzos is that one hits tolerance. I take Valium for insomnia. I’ve suffered from insomnia and social anxiety since childhood. No sleep aid seemed to work for me.

 

I’m trying to take less V. and more Phenergan syrup. It’s an antihistamine. Funny thing is, one also hits tolerance with antihistamines. Not that quickly, though. Benzos downregulate GABA receptors. The brain doesn’t produce enough GABA on its own. Those who have to take benzos on a daily or/and nightly basis are kind of cursed.

 

I still have some hope to substitute my nightly Valium dose as much as I can with Phenergan. The only antihistamine I tolerate. As it doesn’t cause appetite. And I have ED. There is an additional factor in all this. A severe neck discopathy which causes acute pain. It requires surgical intervention, of which I’m scared. Valium, as a muscle relaxant, alleviates that pain. But I guess even 1-2 mg Valium would do the trick.

 

Prozac makes the pain worse, cause it stiffens the muscles. Each psych med is a double-edged sword. I understand your frustration with pdocs who wanted to force you off benzos perfectly. But there comes a time when we just wish we could lower the dose as much as possible... Rock bottom, I guess.

[[La...]]

If people continue to take medications known as vestibular suppressants over long periods of time -- benzodiazepines, antihistamines, anticholinergics -- then they risk having long-term issues with balance. There are at least 8 neurotransmitters involved in balance, including GABA, dopamine and serotonin. Dizziness makes life impossible. Something to keep in mind when taking such medications.