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I need help with a DLMT plan for my Valium, that is dosed unevenly


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Hello. I finally got switched over to all Valium last month.  I take it 4x a day: 7am, 2:30pm, 10:30pm and 12:15am.  I need a plan to daily micro taper.  I have most of the equipment already, except a 10mg syringe.  I have propelene glycol to use.  My questions are:

1) do I need to start dosing at regular intervals before I switch to liquid tapering and if so, how?

2) I would like to start out slower than I think I can handle, since I know Valium can sneak up on you.  Would 10%/month be a good starting point or too high?

3) Could someone help me to devise a plan to do this?  I would really not like to throw any away if I could help it.  My doc isn't very benzo wise, so I do not know that she would write a constant script for the same amount. 

4)Is it possible to start to feel sick, while staying at the same dose too long?  I felt pretty good after finally cutting out my last bit of ativan, but as the time goes on, i feel sicker and sicker in the mornings.  Could it be my body's way of telling me to cut some more out, I'm taking too much V? 

 

I know builder, SG and Crash are all wonderful, from what I have read.  I really need sound advice, as I am a stay at home mom with 2 boys, one of whom has a lot of doc appts and visits, so I need to stay as less symptomatic as possible.  I know I will have symptoms, but I hope not to end up bed ridden like I did when I tapered my Ativan too fast the first time.  That's how I ended up on a higher dose of Valium than my "ending" dose of Ativan. 

 

Thanks for any and all help guys!  The facebook group I am in says to use water and just mix your daily dose in 300ml, pull 1ml a day and that will be a 10% a month reduction.  Which, is technically true, but it will be 10% of my original dose each month and that is too much, especially the farther down I will go. 

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1) do I need to start dosing at regular intervals before I switch to liquid tapering and if so, how?

 

Most folks do just fine on 2X day dosing with V.  I would switch to twice a day for a couple of weeks before you start to taper to give you time to adjust..  And because of its long half-life, uneven doses should not be a problem when you start to taper.

 

2) I would like to start out slower than I think I can handle, since I know Valium can sneak up on you.  Would 10%/month be a good starting point or too high?

 

10%/month is pretty conservative, but that's about where I started. IMO, being conservative is a good way to start.

 

 

3) Could someone help me to devise a plan to do this?  I would really not like to throw any away if I could help it.  My doc isn't very benzo wise, so I do not know that she would write a constant script for the same amount.

 

There really is no need to throw any away. Just make your liquid, and take the amount that you need for your dose each day.  Your liquid will be stable and non-perishable, and can easily be stored (at room temp) for 10-14 days with no problem.  Just ask your doc too continue writing scrips for your full dose, and then you can just use what you need.

 

Most folks take a combination of tablets and liquid, and just use the liquid for the "cut" portion of the dose.  For example, you could take 18mg from tablets, and the rest by liquid, and just reduce the liquid amount each day.

 

4)Is it possible to start to feel sick, while staying at the same dose too long?  I felt pretty good after finally cutting out my last bit of ativan, but as the time goes on, i feel sicker and sicker in the mornings.  Could it be my body's way of telling me to cut some more out, I'm taking too much V? 

 

There really is very little risk of staying, or holding, at a level dose.  When I got stuck at 9mg while trying to do a C&H taper, I stayed at 9mg for 3 years before starting my liquid microtaper.

 

Thanks for any and all help guys!  The facebook group I am in says to use water and just mix your daily dose in 300ml, pull 1ml a day and that will be a 10% a month reduction.  Which, is technically true, but it will be 10% of my original dose each month and that is too much, especially the farther down I will go.

 

1)  You cant just use water; you need a solvent like propylene glycol, then you can dilute with water.  2)  "Pull and discard" is a silly wasteful concept.  Make enough solution to last a week or 2, and just draw out what you need FOR YOUR DOSE!  For example, if you make a 1mg=10ml solution and take 18mg dry and taper with the liquid, your schedule would look something like this:

 

18mg tablets  2mg (20ml liquid)

18mg tablets  1.935mg (19.35ml)

18mg tablets  1.87mg (18.7ml)

18mg tablets  1.805mg (18.05ml)

etc. 

 

That's a .065mg daily reduction, which is about 10%/mo.  Your daily dose is always yesterdays dose minus .065mg

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1) do I need to start dosing at regular intervals before I switch to liquid tapering and if so, how?

 

Most folks do just fine on 2X day dosing with V.  I would switch to twice a day for a couple of weeks before you start to taper to give you time to adjust..  And because of its long half-life, uneven doses should not be a problem when you start to taper.

 

2) I would like to start out slower than I think I can handle, since I know Valium can sneak up on you.  Would 10%/month be a good starting point or too high?

 

10%/month is pretty conservative, but that's about where I started. IMO, being conservative is a good way to start.

 

 

3) Could someone help me to devise a plan to do this?  I would really not like to throw any away if I could help it.  My doc isn't very benzo wise, so I do not know that she would write a constant script for the same amount.

 

There really is no need to throw any away. Just make your liquid, and take the amount that you need for your dose each day.  Your liquid will be stable and non-perishable, and can easily be stored (at room temp) for 10-14 days with no problem.  Just ask your doc too continue writing scrips for your full dose, and then you can just use what you need.

 

Most folks take a combination of tablets and liquid, and just use the liquid for the "cut" portion of the dose.  For example, you could take 18mg from tablets, and the rest by liquid, and just reduce the liquid amount each day.

 

4)Is it possible to start to feel sick, while staying at the same dose too long?  I felt pretty good after finally cutting out my last bit of ativan, but as the time goes on, i feel sicker and sicker in the mornings.  Could it be my body's way of telling me to cut some more out, I'm taking too much V? 

 

There really is very little risk of staying, or holding, at a level dose.  When I got stuck at 9mg while trying to do a C&H taper, I stayed at 9mg for 3 years before starting my liquid microtaper.

 

Thanks for any and all help guys!  The facebook group I am in says to use water and just mix your daily dose in 300ml, pull 1ml a day and that will be a 10% a month reduction.  Which, is technically true, but it will be 10% of my original dose each month and that is too much, especially the farther down I will go.

 

1)  You cant just use water; you need a solvent like propylene glycol, then you can dilute with water.  2)  "Pull and discard" is a silly wasteful concept.  Make enough solution to last a week or 2, and just draw out what you need FOR YOUR DOSE!  For example, if you make a 1mg=10ml solution and take 18mg dry and taper with the liquid, your schedule would look something like this:

 

18mg tablets  2mg (20ml liquid)

18mg tablets  1.935mg (19.35ml)

18mg tablets  1.87mg (18.7ml)

18mg tablets  1.805mg (18.05ml)

etc. 

 

That's a .065mg daily reduction, which is about 10%/mo.  Your daily dose is always yesterdays dose minus .065mg

 

 

 

So right now I take (4) 5mg Tabs a day.  Should I try to make my cut from each dose, so that my blood levels are consistent or does it matter?  So, how would I go about doing it?  Would I cut up the pulls I have, then weigh them, then add liquid? Or just reduce one dose at a time?  I know the liquid will get easier when I am on completely liquid it is just when I am taking dry and liquid that I get confused.  So, how much water and propylene glycol do i need to mix my pills?  Could I do a daily mix each day?  My 1ml syringes are able to do .01 increments, so that is good.  Thanks for your help. 

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So right now I take (4) 5mg Tabs a day.  Should I try to make my cut from each dose, so that my blood levels are consistent or does it matter?  So, how would I go about doing it?  Would I cut up the pulls I have, then weigh them, then add liquid? Or just reduce one dose at a time?  I know the liquid will get easier when I am on completely liquid it is just when I am taking dry and liquid that I get confused.  So, how much water and propylene glycol do i need to mix my pills?  Could I do a daily mix each day?  My 1ml syringes are able to do .01 increments, so that is good.  Thanks for your help.

 

Yes, I would start by just taking 2 doses of 10mg each day for a couple of weeks. 

 

There really is no need to try to keep your doses even with Valium.  Your blood levels will remain pretty level anyway, because of its long half-life.

 

Do you only have 5mg tablets?  We can work with that, but it would be easier if you had some 2mg tablets.  Let me know about your tablet sizes and I will give you some suggestions about mixing.  You will NOT have to weigh anything.

 

You can do a mix each day, but that's really kinda silly and labor intensive.  Make a batch of liquid and just draw out what you need for your dose each day (or even each dose, if you want).  Forget that idea of "drawing out your cut and throwing it away".  Your batch of liquid is just another bottle of med, and you can take however much of it each day.

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So right now I take (4) 5mg Tabs a day.  Should I try to make my cut from each dose, so that my blood levels are consistent or does it matter?  So, how would I go about doing it?  Would I cut up the pulls I have, then weigh them, then add liquid? Or just reduce one dose at a time?  I know the liquid will get easier when I am on completely liquid it is just when I am taking dry and liquid that I get confused.  So, how much water and propylene glycol do i need to mix my pills?  Could I do a daily mix each day?  My 1ml syringes are able to do .01 increments, so that is good.  Thanks for your help.

 

Do you only have 5mg tablets?  We can work with that, but it would be easier if you had some 2mg tablets.  Let me know about your tablet sizes and I will give you some suggestions about mixing.  You will NOT have to weigh anything.

 

Yes, I only have 5mg tablets.  I could try to get 2mg tabs, but I'm not sure she will do it.  I can always ask.  I know that the 5mg makes me really sleepy already, I am not sure what will happen if I take 10mg at one time!  But,I guess because of its' long half life, I already have that much in my system anyways.  Should I try to slowly move the times closer together or just make the switch to 2x a day all at once?  Sorry for all of the questions.  I just learned after trying to taper the Ativan too quickly, to try to be as informed as possible.  Thank you.

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You can continue to take 4 doses, but it really shouldn't be necessary, and it just makes things a little more complicated.  The sedative effect of V wears off pretty quickly anyway.

 

I would dissolve 50mg V in 100ml of PG, and add 400ml water.  That will give you 500ml of solution, .1mg=1ml. 

 

Then if you do the .065mg daily cuts (10%/mo) as I mentioned in my earlier post, it would be...

 

15mg tablets    5mg (50ml)  liquid

15mg tablets    4.935mg (49.35ml) liquid

15mg tablets    4.87mg (48.7ml) liquid

15mg tablets    4.805mg (48.5ml) liquid

15mg tablets    4.74mg (47.4ml) liquid

etc...

 

Each day's dose will be the previous day's dose minus .065mg (.65ml)

 

Following this schedule, your 500ml batch will last about 10-12 days.

 

Once you measure out your daily liquid, you can either take it all at one dose, or divided it up between however many doses you're taking.  As I said, with Valium, there really shouldn't be any problems of your doses are not exactly even.

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How do I dissolve it in the PG?  Do I just let it sit?  Overnight? Stir it?  Do I add the water after it is fully dissolved?  I'm sure there is a file or something I could try to find, instead of bothering you. Thank you, seriously for all of your help.  I'm doing the taper properly this time.  I want to come out in the end better than I did before. 
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How do I dissolve it in the PG?  Do I just let it sit?  Overnight? Stir it?  Do I add the water after it is fully dissolved?  I'm sure there is a file or something I could try to find, instead of bothering you. Thank you, seriously for all of your help.  I'm doing the taper properly this time.  I want to come out in the end better than I did before.

  Don't get hung up on minor procedural details.  Dissolving your med is about as complicated as stirring sugar into a cup of coffee.  Drop the tablets into the PG and the V should go into solution.  If you want to stir or agitate, that's OK, but probably not really necessary.  Note that only a tiny part of the tablet is actually Valium.  Most of the tablet is binder, fillers and other inactive ingredients.  The V will go into solution, but some of the other components probably will not.  Don't worry about it.

 

Yes, dissolve the tablets in the PG, then dilute.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I need to know how to make a solution for one day or maybe a few, but I don't have enough pills to make a 10-12 day solution right now and would like to make sure it (DMLT) agrees with me before I throw 10 pills in and can't undo it.  Next Rx, I will have enough to make a larger bath 2x, but I just don't have enough out of my present bottle.  Thanks for all of your help.

  I've continued to feel yuck in the mornings, all day really, with higher anxiety and even had a long panic attack the other day, and I'm not even cutting yet! But, the holidays were SUPER stressful and I think all that stress just caught up to me.  I hope I'm not already hitting tolerance to the valium.  It has only been a little over a month since I have been on only it.  Thanks again. 

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I need to know how to make a solution for one day or maybe a few, but I don't have enough pills to make a 10-12 day solution right now and would like to make sure it (DMLT) agrees with me before I throw 10 pills in and can't undo it.  Next Rx, I will have enough to make a larger bath 2x, but I just don't have enough out of my present bottle.  Thanks for all of your help.

  I've continued to feel yuck in the mornings, all day really, with higher anxiety and even had a long panic attack the other day, and I'm not even cutting yet! But, the holidays were SUPER stressful and I think all that stress just caught up to me.  I hope I'm not already hitting tolerance to the valium.  It has only been a little over a month since I have been on only it.  Thanks again.

 

For each mg of V, use 2ml PG, and 8ml water.

 

You can use those ratios, and make as little or as much as you choose.

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For each mg of V, use 2ml PG, and 8ml water.

 

You can use those ratios, and make as little or as much as you choose.

 

Thank you very much.  I really appreciate it.  This will get me through until I can fill my next Rx and make a larger batch. 

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For each mg of V, use 2ml PG, and 8ml water.

 

You can use those ratios, and make as little or as much as you choose.

 

 

So, after 2-4 weeks, I can start pulling .065ml, correct?  I wanted the be sure it oukdnt change.  I know that's a silly question.  If the batch is just smaller, the pull will remain the same, no matter f batch size.  I just second guess myself on everything benzo because I am scared.  Scared of the unknown, scared of the side effects, scared of the worst outcomes, (I'm a catastrophic thinking, can't ya tell?!).  Thank you builder.  I will chsngey night time dose to all liquid for a few weeks.  Does it matter if it is 2 or 4, is 4 just to be sure your body is used to is sinceit has a long half life?  Thanks man.  You're awesome for what you do for people like me. 

 

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I was going to start my DLMT after New Year's Eve, but I had a massive 3 hr panic attack on December 28th, recovered the next day, GI issues for two days then I had kidney stone issues for two days.  So, since my panic attack, my anxiety has been heightened.  I feel EXHAUSTED.  I feel like I spend a lot of my time in bed trying to not have a panic attack.  From November 19th, I have only been on valium and feeling pretty good.  Last panic attack was August or September.  So, I slipped on my coping skills and the panic attack mixed with two illnesses back to back wiped me out.  My question is, should I go ahead and switch one of my doses (I dose 4x a day, but this k amyve I should keep a bigger dose at night?) to liquid and hold it for a few weeks (you said it isn't likely to bother me) regardless of how my anxiety has ramped up?  I really don't know why it has, but I am definitely trying to get back into mediations, distractions, etc.  It could be all the holiday stress caught up (I had A LOT), my cycle seems weird this month (always makes symptoms worse) or who knows why!  Benzos are crazy!  So, should I go ahead and forge ahead or wait and hope this anxiety passes?

I sure hope that I hadn't got tolerance since November 19th.  That would not be pleasant.  Thanks for any input. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

For each mg of V, use 2ml PG, and 8ml water.

 

You can use those ratios, and make as little or as much as you choose.

 

So. ...I just made and drank my first liquid solution.  It was AWEFUL tasting.  Is that the valium or the PG?  Could I use something different?  Also , I am feeling the effects pretty rapidly.  Even stronger than I normally do.  Is that normal?  Very sleepy, dizzy, etc.  Thanks.

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DLMT is almsot the easiest way to  to get off of a habituating drug that is probably causing significant emotional and physical disomfort, and certainly causes long term damage.  I find ti hard to believe folks really care what it tastes like. ::)

 

If it really bothers you, mix it with a little fruit juice, soft drink, etc.

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DLMT is almsot the easiest way to  to get off of a habituating drug that is probably causing significant emotional and physical disomfort, and certainly causes long term damage.  I find ti hard to believe folks really care what it tastes like. ::)

 

If it really bothers you, mix it with a little fruit juice, soft drink, etc.

 

Thank you.  I sadly, have super high health anxiety, so when I woke up and could still taste it, I sort of freaked out.  I had a panic attack, which aren't short for me.  I still taste it after I've eaten a few times.

.  I mixed one 5mg V tablet  with 10ml of PG and let it sit.  It didn't disolve, so I had to crush it with a spoon after I added the 40ml of water.  That is the correct amounts, right?

Also, thank you for the tip about mixing it with something.  I will try that.  Is it normal for the effects to be quicker?

Is it the PG or V that tastes badly?  My only other option is vodka, correct?  And I'd rather not do that.

Without your reply I was not trying it again tonight because I didn't want to have another panic attack tomorrow morning.  But, I think it was my worry that caused it.  Not the actual mixture.  I have the 99.8% food grade PG from Amazon.  Without your reply I was going to try to shave off a bit of my pill and use a scale, something I really didn't want to do.  Thank you. 

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The onset or effect of tablets dissolved inot liquid should be absolutely no different than taking a pill.  When you take a pill, it becomes a liquid in just a few seconds after you swallow it anyway.

 

The Rx liquid has a flavoring (wintergreen) added.  You could add a flavoring syrup of your choice, or, as I said< just mix it tn with some fruit juice, soft drink, etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The onset or effect of tablets dissolved inot liquid should be absolutely no different than taking a pill.  When you take a pill, it becomes a liquid in just a few seconds after you swallow it anyway.

 

The Rx liquid has a flavoring (wintergreen) added.  You could add a flavoring syrup of your choice, or, as I said< just mix it tn with some fruit juice, soft drink, etc.

 

Could I use milk instead of the PG?  Would it be the same amounts?  Thanks for all of your hard work!  I k ow there is a while thread thanking you, but you've answered all of my questions.  I really appreciate you.  :)

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