Back on original dose and symptoms returning. Im so scared. Is this tolerance wd

[[lo...]]

So after 1 year of moderate use of clonazepam and another of .5-.75 per day, i made the taper all the way down to .375, where over 6 weeks I developed insane tiredness which turned into insomnia, nightmares, paranoia, derealization, anhedonia... All of it.

 

For the next couple weeks I worked my way back up to .75 where I'm at now, per day, and I've been here for the past 1.5 weeks or so now. The really intense symptoms went away, but it still seems like I'm having interdose w/d, and I'm just generally unwell, I can feel it. I have cold feet, still a bit paranoid, my sleep is fucked, and I have some crazy ass thoughts. Not too much anxiety though, but it sucks to be in this state. Things in my perhiperal startling me, strange thoughts about things coming to attack me, etc. I know it isn't real but it is still troublesome. These symptoms only really get bad towards the 9pm dose, maybe around 6 or 7 pm. Then I have my 9pm dose and usually have been burnt out from crying or something at this point, and I fall asleep a few hours later.

 

Do I need more time to stabilize or something? I'm so afraid the symptoms of .375 will come rearing back now while I'm up at .75. I cant imagine a taper in this condition not fully stabilized, but maybe it will kickstart some sort of healing? I don't know. I also have the flu or a cold right now, so that doesn't help with my sleep.

 

Please, any advice!

 

when i initially took the rescue dose i felt 100% normal for about 30 minutes. Alcohol helps me and then sends me further into hell, so i think i just tapered too fast. I tapered like 30% within 4 weeks i think. But why am I not healed at .75 now?

 

-edit- it's a weird feeling, almost as if glutamate is rampant but also my gaba is working as the anxiety isn't too bad. it's just very unpleasant being in this weird dissociated / slightly psychotic state? i dont know.

[[lo...]]

Does anyone have any advice? At night now I end up reading horror stories or suicide stories and it sends me into an extreme emotional state and I have a crying fit for like 15-30 minutes. I've lost all hope on life, but I'm not particularly anxious. Just scared and without any confidence to face whatever is coming my way in the next weeks or months or years. In no way am I suicidal I just have an insane, massive depression.

 

I'm still sneezing like crazy with a runny nose, and messed up voice so I still am sick.

 

I've stopped studying for my LSAT and generally lay around on my phone googling things....

 

My sleep seems to be okay though. I have some really bad depression inertia in the morning but I've been sleeping well ish... for now. I take .375 clonazepam at 9am and 9pm, totaling .75 a day.

 

Can this actually be tolerance wd?? It doesn't make any sense and I'm DEAD scared I will continue getting worse and then have to taper while still in WD... I can't imagine that.

[[so...]]

I'm sorry that no one has answered your questions. I'm also sorry that I cannot advise you, as I have not experienced this situation myself.

 

I do think that if you gave it more time you would stabilize. A week and a half is short - your brain is still adjusted to the changes. And wait out that cold. Many people have a ramp up of w/d symptoms when they're sick with a bug. You might find you are feeling much better once the virus is gone.

 

Stay away from the horror stories. They are not a predictor of your own path forward.

 

I hope experienced buddies chime in with helpful advice and reassurance.

 

 

[[lo...]]

Thank you for your reply, I hope I do get some more insight. Some more information: I had manageable symptoms and a well functioning life from .75 down to .5, which took me about 4-5 months. During this time since it was a slow taper, I could still drink a bit of alcohol with friends, have fun, and not really have any crazy rebound or anything. Anhedonia was not present; I felt the drive to pursue and do things. I finished my university degree and then a summer course during this time with awesome grades.

 

Then, in only one month, i made the drop from .5 to .375 by the first week of September, which is when all of this hit the fan. I am sad to have to have gone back up to .75 again, but I'm pretty much over the self-pity and just want to become stable enough to slowly cut again, which may take one or two years to remain functional. I'm okay with that length! I just want to be out of this funk. And I want to stay away from the SSRI's that my doctors are trying to get me to take, although it may help, I don't want to add more drugs.

 

Thanks

[[so...]]

Sorry that happened. Sometimes people get slammed, and it's impossible to figure out why.

 

Did you post your question on the Klonopin Klub support group? Someone there might have some advice for you, since it's that particular benzo you are dealing with.

[[lo...]]

I did earlier hopefully someone has some insight.

[[my...]]

Hi loveandhate,

 

I saw your post on the Klonopin Klub thread and then read through these posts.  First, not sure I would take the time to read through all the old KK posts...you might find some similar situations but you'll also find plenty of misery so why go back?  Many of the people who were experienced and wonderfully supportive on KK have completed their tapers...that's the good news!!  Sadly, they are not around as much although I'm sure one of them will see your post and also respond.

 

If you look at my signature, you will see that I've been tapering off of 2 mg K for two years and am almost done with relatively few sxs remaining - although the experience has definitely been difficult and required enormous patience and strength.  You are young and will no doubt have an easier time.

 

That said - it's clear that you made the move from .5 mg to .375 too quickly for your body - or perhaps the previous cuts caught up with you.  In any case, I don't blame you for wanting to go back to a dose where you felt fairly comfortable.  Please give yourself time at the .75 mg dose.  If you are having all these sxs, it means you have deprived your CNS too much and it is literally screaming for the drug to calm itself.  Give it time.  A few weeks - a couple of months...until you feel alright.  I don't blame you for turning down SSRI's.  They really don't help with benzo withdrawal.  Doctors like to prescribe them as they want to FIX the problem and their training tells them that drugs do the trick. 

 

Once you feel you have stabilzed, then you can begin a gradual taper -- no more than between 5-10% of the previous dose every 7-14 days.  See how that goes.  If it feels like too much, then slow it down some more.  It's great that you already feel you can take your time.  It's really important to have that mindset.  It took me over a year to stop thinking the whole thing should be over...

 

Keep posting and I promise someone else will answer you.  Post on the KK thread (the Klub part is b/c of Klonopin..or on the general support thread...and you will get the support you need. 

 

Mana 

 

P.S.

I will post this on the KK thread as well

[[my...]]

I just noticed something -- you said the taper from .75 mg to .5 mg went well....you were able to function, etc.  Just curious why you decided to go back to .75 mg when you were not on that dose on a daily basis for very long at all and took 4-5 months to taper to .5 mg?  I wonder if returning to and staying at .5 mg would have been beneficial?  As you say, though, maybe best not to second guess...although it's a 50% increase (between .5 and .75) that you will have to once again, taper through. 

 

A couple of things to be careful about:  alcohol..for most people it does increase sxs.  Unlike many on BB, I have been able to have a glass of wine - one 5 oz glass - sometimes less than that and often, when I was having a bad time, none.  But "drinking" with friends, to me implies more than a glass of wine and that is a really bad idea when you are tapering!

 

Second, make sure you have a conservative taper plan and stick with it.  What I mean is, slow it down...even hold (I held for four months last summer for a variety of personal/family reasons and also to stabilize) but try not to go up and down in your dose...going down low and then returning to a high dose..then trying to taper again.  Not a good idea.  Have you read the Ashton Manual?  There is a link to it at the top of the BB site.  Dr. Heather Ashton is the one doctor whom Colin, founder of BB, suggests we read.  Many good insights there plus a way to taper that includes crossing over to Valium.  This is only recommended if tapering directly off Klonopin (and benzos with similar potencies) is too difficult. Your taper history suggests you won't have to consider that option.

[[lo...]]

Thank you so much for your replies!

 

After I was having the (what I thought to be) life-threatening psychotic-like symptoms, I decided to updose to .425 or so. That didn't help for a few days. Made it up to .5 / day, started sleeping again but very VERY paranoid as if people were going to kill me, or my cat is reading my thoughts and waiting to jump and scratch my eyes out (I knew this wasn't true, but my mind was throwing these fkd up thoughts at me all while my amygdala was screaming fear at me). STILL persisted, so same deal at .625, only at .75 did i start to feel somewhat barely okay.

 

That entire updosing schedule happened between about october 7th and november 7th, where i finally landed on .75.

 

I still have the odd thoughts, not as bad though, but that's when I stay in my apartment. Weird thoughts of friends' dogs trying to kill me still plague me when I'm out, and driving my car even a short distance sometimes I get really paranoid and zoned out if it's within 3 hours of my dose (.375 every 12 hours).

 

Perhaps I could have fought this out at .5 ... but considering how bad I'm still doing I think I would have been in for a world of hurt still at that dose, and I suppose I don't mind restarting my taper, I just wanted out of that hell. And now I'm basically still in it so I dont know what the fuck to do.

 

 

I will probably take your advice and hold this for maybe another 2-4 weeks and see what happens, yes I am young at 24 so hopefully my brain knows what to do. Unfortunately, after smoking pot many many years ago I had a massive panic attack that sent me into a benzo-like hell for 8 months, so I know I have very, very fragile brain chemistry. That's why I'm so worried.

 

 

ANYWAYS. Thank you for your input, and you do actually believe that just over two weeks now, with that full month of updosing, is not enough for my brain to feel normal?? Inbetween my .75-.5 cuts, I would get back to normal, and feel the normalness, within a week or two. Always. But now, I feel always fucked. Maybe I do just need to wait, and a taper would be a baaaaaaad idea right now.

 

 

[[Tw...]]

I've tried fast tapering from Klonopin, slow tapering from Klonopin and I personally would get to a similar spot where no matter what shit would hit the fan and I would have to updose out of pure necessity to live. I finally made the decision to crossover to Valium for the last 1 mg of my taper and do notice a smoother ride down compared to the symptoms from K. I know some people can get directly off of K but my body just needed a switch. Wish you all the best and in the lower doses that your at micro tapering might be better for you if your not already doing that. Slow sounds horrible but  it's the only way to come off these things.

[[be...]]

I have also tapered too fast and had to come back to my original dose. I would stay on the .75 for about a month and then taper down very slowly.

[[lo...]]

So you guys don't think with my short ish duration on them it's tolerance withdrawl? That it was just too fast of a taper?

 

Thanks for the replies

[[lo...]]

Thank you. Slow doesn't sound horrible, non-functional sounds horrible. I am feeling great this morning, about to go rock climbing with a bunch of friends, today is looking good. Much less doom and gloom.

 

At what point do you think I should consider crossing over to 10mg valium? Somewhere around .6, or .625? I've heard that 10mg is slightly more powerful than .5 clonaz

[[my...]]

IMO....just cool it for a while...stay on the .75 until you feel stable for at least a couple of weeks.  If you're well enough to go rock climbing today....you will probably be able to taper off Klonopin directly.

No reason to cross over. 

[[lo...]]

Thank GOD today has been great. I noticed it the moment I woke up, as if a veil had been yanked from my face. I was up doing stuff within 15 minutes rather than lying in bed on my phone for two hours. The depression was pretty much gone today, along with the anxiety and anhedonia. I had so much fun! And I was confident in talking to people, strangers at the place too, etc.

 

Crazy how spontaneous this shit is and how you look back on three months of as if you were just a completely different person. Anyways I won't get too optimistic quite yet but it was if almost all of my symptoms dissapeared overnight

Whether or not they are back tomorrow .... I don't know. Stability is coming, and then my cut.

 

I'm so happy, and emotional in the good way

 

-edit- it's now past 9pm and i forgot i even had to dose (9am 9pm), THATS how much of a difference I feel in just one day, it's so weird, the interdose w/d just vanished today.

[[lo...]]

And just like that the neck strain and slight paranoia is back lol. At least it took a little longer, heres hoping tomorrow will be okay!

[[Tw...]]

You sound just like me. I tapered down to .5 from 3mgs over 7 months, which was too fast and was functional and then slam...I ended up having to updose and taper to Valium at 20 mgs to stabilize and am really thankful I did. The K just was a beast to come off for me and the Valium has been much smoother but still difficult. I would try and work with your psych doc on settling with the Ashton taper plan straight up. It's saved me to be honest. Gave me hope again from K. Hope this helps.

[[lo...]]

How long did it take you to stabilize, including the crossover? How long did you fee like crap while updosing until you decided to turn to valium?

 

Thank you

[[Tw...]]

I stabilized during my crossover to Valium. So I made it to .75mgs of K and then added in 5mgs of. Album to begin. Now I'm a week away from being on all Valium and I think I'll be able to drop down even from 20mgs when I make the last switch in my crossover. So just a few weeks and I was stable as of now of course lol. These drugs can do wild things so I never keep my guard down.