Looking into Ashton for Clonazepam taper. Need some advice/experiences

[[Ry...]]

Hey, guys.

 

So I'm almost at the half-way point. Was supposed to drop today; it's totally not happening. Still sweating, massive headache, sinus stuff, insane depression, not really sleeping well.

 

My doctor offered me Ashton when I began this and I wasn't really interested due to how long it takes. I just spoke to another psych in passing and he couldn't believe I'm going down as fast as I am. (.125 every 2 or so weeks.) Told me that I need to be on an antidepressant, etc etc. I don't want to go to him formally because he seems to not really listen when you talk, but since my original psych offered me Ashton, I'm considering it.

 

So. If you've done it for Klono, can you tell me a little bit about whether or not it helped you? Did you find the side-effects worse or more manageable? Do you regret crossing over? I'm kind of in a bad place to even be considering it. I'm pretty stubborn and thought I could just do this straight, but if this is what it's like at .625, I don't even want to know what happens when I get lower.

[[Ju...]]

I had to cross from K to V at almost exactly your dose. It made things a LOT better. Unfortunately I then rushed my first valium taper. Dont do that! It is much easier to keep the withdrawal symptoms at bay than to recover from them once they start. I like the sound of the doc who wants to help with the Ashton taper. I dabbled in several antidepressants at my doctors recommendation and never found them helpful, sometimes harmful. I crossed over in three stages, which meant I could see how it felt and adjust as needed.

 

I started at 0.675 K- and I think it went something like this

1) 0.5 mg K + 2 mg V (felt better immediately- started sleeping again)

hold 1-2 weeks

2) 0.25 mg K + 7 mg V

hold 1-2 weeks

3) 8 mg V - was feeling so much better I attempted a lower cross (essentially a cut) at the third stage and it worked

 

Hold for a week or two then taper carefully....

 

JKS

[[Ry...]]

I had to cross from K to V at almost exactly your dose. It made things a LOT better. Unfortunately I then rushed my first valium taper. Dont do that! It is much easier to keep the withdrawal symptoms at bay than to recover from them once they start. I like the sound of the doc who wants to help with the Ashton taper. I dabbled in several antidepressants at my doctors recommendation and never found them helpful, sometimes harmful. I crossed over in three stages, which meant I could see how it felt and adjust as needed.

 

I started at 0.675 K- and I think it went something like this

1) 0.5 mg K + 2 mg V (felt better immediately- started sleeping again)

hold 1-2 weeks

2) 0.25 mg K + 7 mg V

hold 1-2 weeks

3) 8 mg V - was feeling so much better I attempted a lower cross (essentially a cut) at the third stage and it worked

 

Hold for a week or two then taper carefully....

 

JKS

 

Yes! This is exactly what I was looking for. Wow, I was about to just cross over to 10mg of V if I did this. I would've been in a world of pain. Thank you so, so much.

[[Ry...]]

Ah, also. Did you split your doses at all or did you just take everything at night?

[[Ju...]]

I always took one dose at night. A direct crossover is tough because valium takes a while to build up to its full effect whereas once the klonopin is gone it is gone. I was happy that I didnt need the full 12-13 mg that is the Ashton equivalent because then I had less to taper from. If you do need it, no worries you will get there!

[[Ry...]]

Okay, cool. I was mainly asking because my pharmacist was like "uhhhh" when he gave me the valium, asked me if I was still taking the Klonopin. I told him yeah and he was like "don't take these together" so I quickly tried to explain the concept of ashton to him and he looked at me like I was nuts lol. Then he goes, "Don't take the trazodone. Please don't take the trazodone. I like you."

 

So yeah gonna pass on the trazodone that my dr gave me, haha. Okay. He said he was worried about respiratory suppression, but I think I'm going to trust Dr. Ashton over a pharmacist who once suggested I cut my Klono in half when I was taking a PPI, so.

 

Awesome. Thank you again. I really appreciate you responding.

[[Ju...]]

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Ahh--- pharmacists. Even when they are trying to help they can be so unhelpful. One of the best parts of being off- no more pharmacists!!

[[Ry...]]

I await the day of no more meds. Thankfully I was never on anything other than Klono so when I'm off of this, that's it for me.

[[Ry...]]

I had to cross from K to V at almost exactly your dose. It made things a LOT better. Unfortunately I then rushed my first valium taper. Dont do that! It is much easier to keep the withdrawal symptoms at bay than to recover from them once they start. I like the sound of the doc who wants to help with the Ashton taper. I dabbled in several antidepressants at my doctors recommendation and never found them helpful, sometimes harmful. I crossed over in three stages, which meant I could see how it felt and adjust as needed.

 

I started at 0.675 K- and I think it went something like this

1) 0.5 mg K + 2 mg V (felt better immediately- started sleeping again)

hold 1-2 weeks

2) 0.25 mg K + 7 mg V

hold 1-2 weeks

3) 8 mg V - was feeling so much better I attempted a lower cross (essentially a cut) at the third stage and it worked

 

Hold for a week or two then taper carefully....

 

JKS

 

Okay, I just somehow successfully mathed this. .25mg K=5mg V

 

5+7=12 (lol bear with me my math is so grammar school)

 

Then you crossed over to 8mg V which dropped 4mg.

 

That went okay? It seems like if I follow the 1mg every 2 weeks I should cross from .25mg K + 7mg V (12V) to 11mg V. Or is that a ridiculously small cut?

[[Ju...]]

Yes, by going in stages and seeing how I felt I was able to cut some during the crossover. Not everyone does that and it certainly isn't essential. If you think of the Ashton conversion ratios as a guide rather than a rule, it isn't necessarily a "cut" but more like feeling your way into what is right for your body. I didn't need the full 20 fold equivalent dose. It's an average and some people are higher some are lower. I think it helps to do the first step at least at the full dose so that you don't start too low. When I did that I immediately felt so much better, I knew I was on the right track. I definitely didn't ever do a four mg cut after that during the taper and wouldn't recommend it!

[[Ry...]]

Yeah I'm definitely going to start where you started if I go with it. It seems solid and I want to sleep. Long gone are the days where I wanted this to go as fast as possible. I need to make sure my Dr is on board with giving me valium refills before I decide. I can get them from my GP but I'd rather not go through the hassle of trying to explain this process to someone who initially told me I could get off of it in a month. Leaning towards it though. I had two great days in a row where I was 90% and thought it was over for this cycle then today was just a mess.

[[Ju...]]

It think I saw you mentioned about 2 mg pills? You will want those for getting an accurate dose during crossing and tapering. It has been so long I decided to go back and look at what my crossover was and it turns out I started at the same place as you. Please dont feel like this is THE recipe, it is just A recipe. I kept a daily spreadsheet throughout the process, it really helped me. I hope this will format ok...

 

Dose K (mg) Dose V (mg) V eq (mg) day

0.625 0 12.5 1

2

0.5 2 12 3

4

5

6

0.25 6 11 7

8

9

10

11

12

13

0 8 8 14

15

16

17

18

19

20

0 8 8 21

 

[[Ju...]]

Well that is clear as mud! The numbers that are alone on each line should be in the last (day) column. The other numbers space under each of the other three headings. I held another week after that before starting the taper. With more experience now, I think it is better to wait 1-2 weeks at each stage, but it worked at the time.

[[Ry...]]

Okay, I punched it into an excel spreadsheet and I see what you were doing. Yeah I would definitely hold a little longer between drops. I've got nothing to lose so long as I can get the refills.