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acute phase doesn't really exist...


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here is my idea. i don't think there really is an acute phase if you taper properly. here is what i mean. according to ashton (who deserves all the credit in the world!) the schedule for drop down on valium is 1 mg every week or two. then when you are done you have an acute recovery phase for a few months.

 

i think the ashton schedule for long term users is too fast period. also, it is pretty clear that the taper needs to be log function.. i.e. slowing taper rate at the end.

 

this leads me to believe people she cared for tapered to fast in general and definitely at the end. resulting in a recovery phase.

 

if you taper properly to minimize symptoms and stay in sync with what your body can handle, then the last bid of the taper should be no different than any other place in the taper. in fact, it should be better because immediately after jumping (actually just walking away) you are no longer dropping, so you should feel better.

 

it doesn't make sense to me that you would stabilize after each step then all of a sudden have bad symptoms after ending the taper.( assuming you do it properly)

 

therefore i am looking forward to improvements in the time right after the end of my taper (which i am doing slowly at the end as you can see).

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Everybody goes through an acute period of withdrawal. One goal of a taper is to minimize withdrawal symptoms during this period.  The acute period is the period immediately following stopping. It does not mean that you will have awful symptoms.
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Everybody goes through an acute period of withdrawal. One goal of a taper is to minimize withdrawal symptoms during this period.  The acute period is the period immediately following stopping. It does not mean that you will have awful symptoms.

 

So your saying even if you have zero sxs, you're still in acute withdrawal?  ::)

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I have an easy taper..so far. But I fully expect to feel acute w/d.

 

It seems like you are doing a reasonable taper.  Hopefully you won't feel much during acute.

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builder i am with you. there is no reason a drop from .06 to zero is worse than any other drop and plus then you are not dropping anymore. plenty of people i have read do fine after stable and appropriately timed taper. i don't believe there is acute if you taper properly. this is not to be confused with saying it is easy to taper properly. it is very much not. but it makes no sense that all of a sudden due to going from a tiny amount to zero that all of a sudden you enter some new phase. i don't believe it.
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here is my idea. i don't think there really is an acute phase if you taper properly. here is what i mean. according to ashton (who deserves all the credit in the world!) the schedule for drop down on valium is 1 mg every week or two. then when you are done you have an acute recovery phase for a few months.

 

i think the ashton schedule for long term users is too fast period. also, it is pretty clear that the taper needs to be log function.. i.e. slowing taper rate at the end.

 

this leads me to believe people she cared for tapered to fast in general and definitely at the end. resulting in a recovery phase.

 

if you taper properly to minimize symptoms and stay in sync with what your body can handle, then the last bid of the taper should be no different than any other place in the taper. in fact, it should be better because immediately after jumping (actually just walking away) you are no longer dropping, so you should feel better.

 

it doesn't make sense to me that you would stabilize after each step then all of a sudden have bad symptoms after ending the taper.( assuming you do it properly)

 

therefore i am looking forward to improvements in the time right after the end of my taper (which i am doing slowly at the end as you can see).

 

Reading your post encourages me and I sure hope you are right. I'm tapering steadily and slowly hoping that once I jump it will go smoothly.

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builder i am with you. there is no reason a drop from .06 to zero is worse than any other drop and plus then you are not dropping anymore. plenty of people i have read do fine after stable and appropriately timed taper. i don't believe there is acute if you taper properly. this is not to be confused with saying it is easy to taper properly. it is very much not. but it makes no sense that all of a sudden due to going from a tiny amount to zero that all of a sudden you enter some new phase. i don't believe it.

  Many folks who do a slow, symptom-based taper are able to avoid significant sxs while tapering, and can walk off with no residual sxs at all.
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builder i am with you. there is no reason a drop from .06 to zero is worse than any other drop and plus then you are not dropping anymore. plenty of people i have read do fine after stable and appropriately timed taper. i don't believe there is acute if you taper properly. this is not to be confused with saying it is easy to taper properly. it is very much not. but it makes no sense that all of a sudden due to going from a tiny amount to zero that all of a sudden you enter some new phase. i don't believe it.

  Many folks who do a slow, symptom-based taper are able to avoid significant sxs while tapering, and can walk off with no residual sxs at all.

 

Hey builder, can you take a look at my signature and tell me if I'm going too fast?  I plan on going to .04 mg next week then jump due to myoclonic symptoms that occurred at week 5-6 into taking clonazepam. Or do you think slower to minimize this side effect to a greater degree when actually stopping.

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Thanks, DG. But now I am getting unpleasant Adrenal surges which makes me uncomfortable and hurt my sleep. My pdoc says it's due to the stress of moving to another state and to hold until I get settled. Moving in a huge drag. I didn't think I could possibly have this much junk.

 

Betsy :)

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My taper to this point was way too fast. But I've steadied now and I'm stable at 3mg. Very few symptoms and only mild at that.

If I go very slowly to 0, according to this theory, should I avoid acute (according to this theory)?

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Thanks, DG. But now I am getting unpleasant Adrenal surges which makes me uncomfortable and hurt my sleep. My pdoc says it's due to the stress of moving to another state and to hold until I get settled. Moving in a huge drag. I didn't think I could possibly have this much junk.

 

Betsy :)

 

Holding sounds like a good idea until you get moved and situated.

 

:thumbsup:

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In this forum, the 'acute phase' simply refers to the first weeks benzo free.  That period of time may have an uptick in symptoms and it may not. A well executed taper should reasonably lead to an uneventful acute phase but it doesn't always, some people...for some reason do experience an uptick in symptoms. 
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i think acute is a misleading word. the word itself suggests that everyone will have a "sharp" increase in symptoms (acute means sharp). there is no way this is true. it should be called a post taper recovery phase. thats it. for sure that occurs. but everyone should be able to look forward to a minimally symptomatic phase after their taper IF they manage their taper carefully and slowly. doesn't mean it will happen for everyone but likewise the suggestion that you taper well with a nice tail at the end and then are due for some type of hammer to hit you is misleading.
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I agree. I think the term "acute" is sort of scary.  To me it indicates intense and unpleasant, and it probably is that way for some.  I like the term post recovery phase.  It sounds less scary.
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it doesn't make sense to me that you would stabilize after each step then all of a sudden have bad symptoms after ending the taper.( assuming you do it properly)

 

I have also wondered if a much longer taper at the end would also eliminate the acute phase that everyone talks about and claims is inevitable.  But I'll never find out.  My doc, who writes the scripts for the compounding pharmacy, would never cooperate in writing another two or three months of micro-micro amounts.  Besides, there's a part of me that just wants the hell off of this crap.  My "end phase" consists of five .020 mg cuts every 11 days and then off on November 15th.  The amount of lorazepam in each capsule in the last 11 days will be .002 mg's.  I'll go with that.  Enough is enough.

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10 days in my acute has also been less bad than the last 3 weeks of taper.

 

It was kinda scary, because reading this forum I had the impression that acute is much, much worse than the taper and it scared me senseless.

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garaltrivia, that is exactly my point! senseless fear! the emphasis should be on a slow and careful taper and the reward is nothing at the end. there is no reason to fear the supposed "acute phase". it is bogus. i really believe it is because ashton is the god (and she deserves it!) but she was not tapering people properly. too fast and not long enough tail. so she almost always propably ended up with people at the end who were still hurting after their taper.

 

i thin the pointless fear is the reason that this word acute phase should be addressed and corrected.

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In this forum, the 'acute phase' simply refers to the first weeks benzo free.  That period of time may have an uptick in symptoms and it may not. A well executed taper should reasonably lead to an uneventful acute phase but it doesn't always, some people...for some reason do experience an uptick in symptoms.

 

Well then once again BB chooses to  define a term with a  definition that does not conform to conventional usage.

 

a·cute

əˈkyo͞ot/

adjective

adjective: acute; comparative adjective: acute; superlative adjective: acutest

 

    1.

    (of a bad, difficult, or unwelcome situation or phenomenon) present or experienced to a severe or intense degree.

    "an acute housing shortage"

  synonyms: severe, critical, drastic, dire, dreadful, terrible, awful, grave, bad, serious, desperate, dangerous

 

IMO, to suggest that  "Everybody goes through an acute period of withdrawal."  instills a needless sense of fear and anxiety in what is already a scary process.

 

So regardless of how you wish to define  "acute", folks should be advised that one can indeed follow a protocol that will minimize any sxs and discomfort during the taper process, and then can end the taper with zero residual sxs,

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This is not necessarily BenzoBuddies' term, let me make clear I meant this is how many of the forum's members view the first weeks after c/t or the taper ends.

 

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This is not necessarily BenzoBuddies' term, let me make clear I meant this is how many of the forum's members view the first weeks after c/t or the taper ends.

 

Then "many of the forum's members" have chosen "... to  define a term with a  definition that does not conform to conventional usage."

 

And by frequently applying that term to describe the period immediately following the end of a taper instill unnecessary fear anbd anxiety in folks who already have enough fear and anxiety.

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it doesn't make sense to me that you would stabilize after each step then all of a sudden have bad symptoms after ending the taper.( assuming you do it properly)

 

I have also wondered if a much longer taper at the end would also eliminate the acute phase that everyone talks about and claims is inevitable.  But I'll never find out.  My doc, who writes the scripts for the compounding pharmacy, would never cooperate in writing another two or three months of micro-micro amounts.  Besides, there's a part of me that just wants the hell off of this crap.  My "end phase" consists of five .020 mg cuts every 11 days and then off on November 15th.  The amount of lorazepam in each capsule in the last 11 days will be .002 mg's.  I'll go with that.  Enough is enough.

 

I think that's a good plan. And I am holding (which I hate to do) until I buy a place in Ohio..........Then I will begin because this move is stressing me out so much that I have a lot of Adrenal surges. Makes for horrible sleep. I need my beauty rest....... :D

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i think acute is a misleading word. the word itself suggests that everyone will have a "sharp" increase in symptoms (acute means sharp). there is no way this is true. it should be called a post taper recovery phase. thats it. for sure that occurs. but everyone should be able to look forward to a minimally symptomatic phase after their taper IF they manage their taper carefully and slowly. doesn't mean it will happen for everyone but likewise the suggestion that you taper well with a nice tail at the end and then are due for some type of hammer to hit you is misleading.

 

Maybe so.  However, it's a term many use here to describe the period of time directly following a taper's end.  As both benzos-R-cruel and I said in this thread, it is not a dire prediction of acute symptoms, it describes a time frame.

 

'Jump' should not be taken literally, either.  ::)

 

 

 

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challis you are missing the point and it is an important point. you say "it is not a dire prediction of acute symptoms, it describes a time frame"

 

well if it describes a time frame why does it use the word acute?? this is what pointlessly generates fear. why not call it "post taper recovery".

 

additionally there is no medical evidence,  nor consensus of the many people on this site that if you do an excellent taper that you will get an "acute" ramp up in symptoms.

 

not sure why you are hanging on so tight to this word that creates fear instead of objective description when something else would do much better. ashton was wrong to use this word and so is anyone else. the emphasis should be on "not jumping" and not tapering fast so that the symptoms are minimized or possibly eliminated as soon as possible post taper

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This is not necessarily BenzoBuddies' term, let me make clear I meant this is how many of the forum's members view the first weeks after c/t or the taper ends.

 

Then "many of the forum's members" have chosen "... to  define a term with a  definition that does not conform to conventional usage."

 

And by frequently applying that term to describe the period immediately following the end of a taper instill unnecessary fear anbd anxiety in folks who already have enough fear and anxiety.

 

My husband and I both assumed that "acute phase" would be awful for me.  It scared both of us.  I am SO glad to read this thread.  :)

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