3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

[[He...]]

Hey guys, do you know if Valium it self can cause Tinnitus or if it's only the withdrawal?

 

I've been kindling off it a few times (not full-on kindling but tried to go down too fast and went back up my original dose) and got really bad Tinnitus from that. Before I could stabilize and the Tinnitus would become manageable again but this time it's been 3 weeks and the Tinnitus is still horrible, I'm worried it will never get better. I don't know how long I should try to stabilize before starting a slow taper, I really just want to do whatever is the best to do for the Tinnitus, but I don't understand why I can't stabilize anymore and if I'm just causing more damage being on Valium for longer by stabilizing and tapering very slow.

 

My last thread was here but had few answers: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=197378.0

 

Can any of you guys help me ?

I’m sorry you didn’t get a response. In my opinion just based on my own experience, stabilizing before further destabilizing your CNS by tapering is highly recommended. I was very unstable and had the tinnitus and many other withdrawal symptoms pretty bad early in my taper. I held for a long time to let my body adjust and to allow the symptoms to gradually fade and dissipate. After giving my body a chance to adjust to withfpdrawing the drug too quickly, I have been able to taper steadily without much problem. I still have some minor withdrawals but it has been very manageable and has not interfered in my life in any significant way unlike when I first began this journey and was in too big of a hurry to get off. Hope that helps some.  —V

 

Thanks Valley. Do you know how long it took you to stabilize for the Tinnitus to get better? It's been nearly a month for me (after kindling) and it's been getting worse instead of better, although lately maybe it's on a plateau and sounds more electric. I don't know how long I should hold, a lot of people on the forum will say that stabilizing for too long causes tolerance and is bad, some say you should stabilize for months, it's very conflicting.

All I can say is in my experience I held for six months and it was the best decision I ever made. I’ve been able to taper steadily ever since. I don’t believe you will become any more tolerant than you already are just by holding. In answer to your question, it took me a good while to get past the screaming tinnitus. I would guess. around 3 months and it got worse before it got better. It alternated between feeling like I was in a tunnel to screaming in my ears. I hope you figure what to do that will help you get past it. I believe if you give it enough time, it will improve.  —V

 

My experience was similar to Valley's.  I updosed and did a six month hold and I am so very glad that I did.  I also used that six months to restore my health that had been benzo disrupted, and I went into therapy. I'm so much better now..there are no words to describe the difference...

 

Me too, I held for 4 months and my wdsx disappeared. Before holding , tinnitus was a major disturbance. I could not go to sleep unless I had a noisy fan going to drown out the tinnitus.

I never experienced tinnitus when I was just  on Valium , only when I am withdrawing. It is one of the most disturbing wdsx. IMO , holding will get rid of your tinnitus just the same way  it will reduce your other wdsx.

Good luck!   

[[de...]]

Just found this thread and will have to go back and read all. 

 

I'm sitting on 2mgs tolerance and not travelling well at all.  Symptoms have lessened as the afternoon approaches.  This morning was horrible. 

 

Begin first cut tomorrow 6.5%.  Scared. 

 

Dee.

[[Rh...]]

Hi, I am now down to 1 mg and the past week has been BAD, with yesterday being the worst!  I feel like I'm going into acute, which I was in for almost 6 months when I updosed and then held in hopes that my taper would be easier.  The only relief I have ever had was from a few updosed and then slower tapers.  Holding has never worked for me, but for many people it has.  I know my body quickly adapts to the dosage and I get tolerance or I need to updose. 

 

Anyways, I don't have tinnitus but I do have horrid ear pressure and popping with migraines.  This whole journey is hard and sometimes I've just had to push through.  I actually had a two week window only to be followed by this bad wave!

 

Good luck to everyone out there and I do hope we all can find answers!

 

Rach

[[Rh...]]

Oh an one more thing, there is a long hold support group which has wonderful people with great experiences in holding!

[Guest [Kp...]]

Finally I'm at 1 mg valium. This has to be a milestone!

[[pe...]]

You are almost there, Kpin! Keep up the good work.

[Guest [Kp...]]

Thanks Peter!

 

Nice to see you are on the other side!  I should join you by end March!

[[Rh...]]

Wow, I’m now below 1 mg...never thought I’d be here!  Here’s to my goal of being off end of May.

[[Va...]]

Wow, I’m now below 1 mg...never thought I’d be here!  Here’s to my goal of being off end of May.

Way to go!

[Guest [...]]

Glad you've revived this thread, Rhernanhtown.

And, congrats!!

 

I'm just returning after a long break from BB and looking to finishing off my remaining 1.95 valium which has been nothing but a slow walk through hell for me.

I'll post a signature sometime soon.

 

How have your symptoms been?

[Guest [...]]

For those of you under 2mg, and symptomatic throughout, how much did you taper per month under two mgs?

 

I am daily cutting using an analytical scale dropping .002 mgs every other day or so.  Would removing .2 mgs a month be reasonable?

(understand that each situation/biology is different; looking for a ballpark number for symptomatic taperers)

 

thanks

[[Va...]]

For those of you under 2mg, and symptomatic throughout, how much did you taper per month under two mgs?

 

I am daily cutting using an analytical scale dropping .002 mgs every other day or so.  Would removing .2 mgs a month be reasonable?

(understand that each situation/biology is different; looking for a ballpark number for symptomatic taperers)

 

thanks

I wish I could help you. My taper has been fairly smooth since a very rough start and long hold. I've just tapered based on symptoms which has been pretty steady at .02 per day the past several months. With that being said, go as slow as you need to. It's definitely not a race.  --V

[[Rh...]]

Hi, oh it’s been a slow walk through hell for sure and I’m still pretty symptomatic each and every day, but less intense.  I think, for me, it’ll just be miserable till I’m done and possibly even after!

 

I am tapering .25 mgs a month, which is fast but seems to be just manageable enough for me.  I know I’ve gone slower too, depending on how I feel.  Just to clarify, each day I’m symptomatic, but the intensity is always different.  Some days I’m so sick I can barely get out of bed only to feel almost normal the next day...

 

Rach

 

[Guest [...]]

For those of you under 2mg, and symptomatic throughout, how much did you taper per month under two mgs?

 

I am daily cutting using an analytical scale dropping .002 mgs every other day or so.  Would removing .2 mgs a month be reasonable?

(understand that each situation/biology is different; looking for a ballpark number for symptomatic taperers)

 

thanks

I wish I could help you. My taper has been fairly smooth since a very rough start and long hold. I've just tapered based on symptoms which has been pretty steady at .02 per day the past several months. With that being said, go as slow as you need to. It's definitely not a race.  --V

 

May your good taper fortune continue to zero, Valley!

Definitely not a race but wanting to find a way to keep moving forward. 

[[Rh...]]

Sorry to answer your question, if your pretty symptomatic tapering that much, maybe do less and see if it makes a difference?  I know I was able to taper more and now it’s less, but sometimes I’ll do a bit more and be ok???  Kinda a symptom based taper?

 

Bit much help, sorry!

[Guest [...]]

Hi, oh it’s been a slow walk through hell for sure and I’m still pretty symptomatic each and every day, but less intense.  I think, for me, it’ll just be miserable till I’m done and possibly even after!

 

I am tapering .25 mgs a month, which is fast but seems to be just manageable enough for me.  I know I’ve gone slower too, depending on how I feel.  Just to clarify, each day I’m symptomatic, but the intensity is always different.  Some days I’m so sick I can barely get out of bed only to feel almost normal the next day...

 

Rach

 

Your description matches my journey, Rach. 

Are your symptoms more physical or mental?

 

Mine are all physical and noticed that holding doesnt provide much in the way of help.  Maybe a little but nothing major.

Guess it truly is trial and more trial........

 

 

[[Gr...]]

For those of you under 2mg, and symptomatic throughout, how much did you taper per month under two mgs?

 

I am daily cutting using an analytical scale dropping .002 mgs every other day or so.  Would removing .2 mgs a month be reasonable?

(understand that each situation/biology is different; looking for a ballpark number for symptomatic taperers)

 

thanks

I tapered .25mg every two weeks using cut and hold method. It was unpleasant but not unbearable. I just determined the rate based off my symptoms. If things were a little rough I held another day or two before the next cut.

[[bl...]]

I just updosed to 3 again. Sigh. Wasn’t sleeping at all. I’m going to liquid next week. Hands still freezing cold and feel weird. So tempted to updosed more and see if it resolves like last time but too committed to having come this far. Trying to keep the faith but it’s so hard!

[[pe...]]

For those of you under 2mg, and symptomatic throughout, how much did you taper per month under two mgs?

 

I am daily cutting using an analytical scale dropping .002 mgs every other day or so.  Would removing .2 mgs a month be reasonable?

(understand that each situation/biology is different; looking for a ballpark number for symptomatic taperers)

 

thanks

I was on a six month hold at 1 mg per day until 11/7/17 when I starrted tapering 0.1mg per 30 days. The first 30 days was dry cut and hold. After that I switched to a daily liquid mico taper cutting 0.00333 (1/300) mg per day which is still 0.1 mg in 30 days. I stayed at that daily cut until 2/24/18 when I reached 0.6433 mg and jumped.

 

[Guest [...]]

For those of you under 2mg, and symptomatic throughout, how much did you taper per month under two mgs?

 

I am daily cutting using an analytical scale dropping .002 mgs every other day or so.  Would removing .2 mgs a month be reasonable?

(understand that each situation/biology is different; looking for a ballpark number for symptomatic taperers)

 

thanks

I was on a six month hold at 1 mg per day until 11/7/17 when I starrted tapering 0.1mg per 30 days. The first 30 days was dry cut and hold. After that I switched to a daily liquid mico taper cutting 0.00333 (1/300) mg per day which is still 0.1 mg in 30 days. I stayed at that daily cut until 2/24/18 when I reached 0.6433 mg and jumped.

 

Peter,

I’m assuming symptoms were the reason for your hold. Was it beneficial?  How so?

What were your pros and cons with dry cut vs liquid after 1 mg?

How are your symptoms now post jump?

 

Thanks

 

[[pe...]]

Hi Ss24,

 

I held because I was experiencing strong physical symptoms that scared me. If I had a good doctor to help me I could have probably resumed tapering within a month. It helped me stabilize but I don't think it was helpful for me to hold for 6 months. But that is me, not you.

 

I found dry cut tapering difficult because the milligram scale I was using gave inconsistent results. I remember that 1 mg was contained in about 70 mg of tablet powder but the scale display would change spontaneously by several milligrams. Since I was trying to reduce by 1/10 of a milligram which is only 7 mg of tablet the measurement was not reliable. I was worried that my dose was incorrect which increased my anxiety. I switched to pharmacy grade liquid diazepam when I started working with a psychiatrist who actually understands slow tapering. I found the liquid easy to work with. I was cutting 0.00333 mg a day which is 0.1 mg every 30 days. Some people have problems switching to liquid but it was not an issue for me. You have to measure carefully whether you are using liquid of tablets. By the way I think that making a solution out of tablets works also. I did that for a week or two using whole milk until I got the prescription for liquid diazepam. I diluted the pharmacy liquid valium in filtered water. That makes the measurements more accurate. Typically people make a solution where 10 milliliters of solution contains 1 mg of valium. You can also make it so that 100 ml contains 1 mg. That way 1 ml of the solution contains 0.01 mg of valium.

 

My symptoms post jump at day 15 are better than I expected. Sometimes they are intense but sometimes I feel pretty normal. Yesterday I thought I was completely done with my most troubling sensation, "internal vibrations". But today they came back. That's dissapointing but it is only day 15.  I need to learn patience. Also I am still in the phase when there is some Valium left in my system from before I jumped so I continue to experience decreases in Valium while I metabolize the residual valium. Once it is all gone it is essentially a permanent hold at 0 mg! I think it will be all gone in another couple of weeks.

 

I am glad I jumped and am not thinking about re-instating. I want this toxic drug out of my body.

 

Best wishes with your taper,

 

Peter

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Hi Ss24,

 

I held because I was experiencing strong physical symptoms that scared me. If I had a good doctor to help me I could have probably resumed tapering within a month. It helped me stabilize but I don't think it was helpful for me to hold for 6 months. But that is me, not you.

 

I found dry cut tapering difficult because the milligram scale I was using gave inconsistent results. I remember that 1 mg was contained in about 70 mg of tablet powder but the scale display would change spontaneously by several milligrams. Since I was trying to reduce by 1/10 of a milligram which is only 7 mg of tablet the measurement was not reliable. I was worried that my dose was incorrect which increased my anxiety. I switched to pharmacy grade liquid diazepam when I started working with a psychiatrist who actually understands slow tapering. I found the liquid easy to work with. I was cutting 0.00333 mg a day which is 0.1 mg every 30 days. Some people have problems switching to liquid but it was not an issue for me. You have to measure carefully whether you are using liquid of tablets. By the way I think that making a solution out of tablets works also. I did that for a week or two using whole milk until I got the prescription for liquid diazepam. I diluted the pharmacy liquid valium in filtered water. That makes the measurements more accurate. Typically people make a solution where 10 milliliters of solution contains 1 mg of valium. You can also make it so that 100 ml contains 1 mg. That way 1 ml of the solution contains 0.01 mg of valium.

 

My symptoms post jump at day 15 are better than I expected. Sometimes they are intense but sometimes I feel pretty normal. Yesterday I thought I was completely done with my most troubling sensation, "internal vibrations". But today they came back. That's dissapointing but it is only day 15.  I need to learn patience. Also I am still in the phase when there is some Valium left in my system from before I jumped so I continue to experience decreases in Valium while I metabolize the residual valium. Once it is all gone it is essentially a permanent hold at 0 mg! I think it will be all gone in another couple of weeks.

 

I am glad I jumped and am not thinking about re-instating. I want this toxic drug out of my body.

 

Best wishes with your taper,

 

Peter

 

Thank you, Peter.

Slow appears to be the way to proceed with those highly symptomatic..........

I have a high end analytical scale able to give consistent readings to .0001g; will try continuing with this method until I cannot.

 

Best of luck with your healing and recovery.

 

 

 

 

 

[[Mr...]]

Hi all,

 

I've been holding at 0.3mg Valium for about 7 weeks now.

 

My nervous system is exquisitely sensitive to small dose cuts, especially nearing the end of my taper. I realised I may have been making things worse by inaccurate scale cutting (actual dose possibly between 0.27 and 0.33) despite the readout of 0.3.

 

 

I switched to a liquid valium microtaper about a week ago thanks to the help of a member here (thanks "builder")

 

 

Right now, the hold of 7 weeks doesn't seem to have lead to any more stability. I'm wondering if my symptoms might relate to the side effects of the drug rather than withdrawals. I suspect being on it is amplifying fatigue.

 

I'm not sure whether to hold a bit longer or simply start a microtaper down to 0. Any guidance appreciated 

[[Rh...]]

MrEggplant-

 

Holding has never worked for me...I’ve even held as long as 6-8 months and I only became worse.  I think I am one that just isn’t a good fit for benzos in the first place.  They worked in the beginning for maybe two weeks then I tried to stop and all hell broke loose, hence my slow taper.  I finally decided on a small updose then a slow liquid micro taper which has worked for me.  Oh and I also had to add Remeron (1/2 of 3.75, so a low low dose) for mental symptoms I was having that were unbearable.

 

I do find most all of my symptoms are physical other than that small bout of mental stuff.

 

Everyone is so different.  Maybe, hold for another week or two and if no improvements do a small cut and see how you react?!  My way of living has been to just push through and make cuts, even if they are tiny, it’s still a cut and holds in between, but not too long.  I never hold more than a week as I’ve never had much releif from holding.

 

Good luck and hang in there!

[[Mr...]]

MrEggplant-

 

Holding has never worked for me...I’ve even held as long as 6-8 months and I only became worse.  I think I am one that just isn’t a good fit for benzos in the first place.  They worked in the beginning for maybe two weeks then I tried to stop and all hell broke loose, hence my slow taper.  I finally decided on a small updose then a slow liquid micro taper which has worked for me.  Oh and I also had to add Remeron (1/2 of 3.75, so a low low dose) for mental symptoms I was having that were unbearable.

 

I do find most all of my symptoms are physical other than that small bout of mental stuff.

 

Everyone is so different.  Maybe, hold for another week or two and if no improvements do a small cut and see how you react?!  My way of living has been to just push through and make cuts, even if they are tiny, it’s still a cut and holds in between, but not too long.  I never hold more than a week as I’ve never had much releif from holding.

 

Good luck and hang in there!

 

Thank you very much for the reply.

 

Yes interesting about being someone who doesn't respond well to them. I believe I am the same, around 10 hours after my first sporadic doses, I had big crashes of intense rebound anxiety and fatigue, and felt awful the following days.

 

In other words the effects were only positive for a few hours then became much, much worse.

 

Are you feeling better as you reduce your valium dose? What is improving?

 

My symptoms are also almost purely physical - they mimic chronic fatigue, although they are extreme enough to make me worry sometimes. I wonder if I will only find full recovery from the symptoms are being off the benzos - since being on them and holding doesn't seem to offer much improvement