Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Su...]]

Hi Mountain,

 

You are crushing it; almost there! I'm reducing 0.003 per day. I'm usually okay in the morning and instead get evening anxiety before I dose. Have you found anything to help you cope with the am jitters?

[[GV...]]

What can i use to dissolve my pill. Without using alcohol? Something i can buy at store?

[[...]]

What can i use to dissolve my pill. Without using alcohol? Something i can buy at store?

I used to dry powder to mix it up and dilute it. See the link in my signature.  I think it’s the first link but it might be the second one.

[[ga...]]

What can i use to dissolve my pill. Without using alcohol? Something i can buy at store?

 

Some people use food grade propylene glycol. They get it on amazon. Perhaps a pharmacist would also have it? Some people use full fat milk. I'm not familiar with those methods. If you don't get an answer here, try asking on the Titration Board. That board is all about liquid tapering.

 

Gardie

[[mo...]]

Hi Mountain,

 

You are crushing it; almost there! I'm reducing 0.003 per day. I'm usually okay in the morning and instead get evening anxiety before I dose. Have you found anything to help you cope with the am jitters?

 

That’s great Suzie! .003 is awesome I’d be laid out atvthat pace. We will get there. I haven’t found anything for the jitters but I am leerry of trying anything that could affect my brain and try to just let my body do its thing while it’s healing. Every once in a while, maybe once per month, I’ll allow myself some kava tea to relax me but this is usually when it’s been a long few days with loud kids and I’m nearing end of my rope. Have you found anything to help? I’m always open to suggestions.

[[Ul...]]

What can i use to dissolve my pill. Without using alcohol? Something i can buy at store?

 

Some people use food grade propylene glycol. They get it on amazon. Perhaps a pharmacist would also have it? Some people use full fat milk. I'm not familiar with those methods. If you don't get an answer here, try asking on the Titration Board. That board is all about liquid tapering.

 

Gardie

 

Howdy Gardie!!!!    Just wanted to say 'hi'.

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

What can i use to dissolve my pill. Without using alcohol? Something i can buy at store?

 

Some people use food grade propylene glycol. They get it on amazon. Perhaps a pharmacist would also have it? Some people use full fat milk. I'm not familiar with those methods. If you don't get an answer here, try asking on the Titration Board. That board is all about liquid tapering.

 

Gardie

 

 

Howdy Gardie!!!!    Just wanted to say 'hi'.

 

Jeff

 

Hi, Jeff. Been thinking about you! Hope all is well.

 

[[Su...]]

Hi Mountain,

 

You are crushing it; almost there! I'm reducing 0.003 per day. I'm usually okay in the morning and instead get evening anxiety before I dose. Have you found anything to help you cope with the am jitters?

 

That’s great Suzie! .003 is awesome I’d be laid out atvthat pace. We will get there. I haven’t found anything for the jitters but I am leerry of trying anything that could affect my brain and try to just let my body do its thing while it’s healing. Every once in a while, maybe once per month, I’ll allow myself some kava tea to relax me but this is usually when it’s been a long few days with loud kids and I’m nearing end of my rope. Have you found anything to help? I’m always open to suggestions.

 

Hi Mountain,

I've been noticing that I feel better on the evenings I do gentle hatha yoga. It really calms and relaxes me. I'm trying more breathing exercises and kundalini yoga.

[[go...]]

What can i use to dissolve my pill. Without using alcohol? Something i can buy at store?

 

Hi, just wondering why you don't want to use alcohol? From my research, alcohol is frequently used by compounding pharmacies. Propylene glycol is an option, too.

 

I'm having a hard time deciding as well. The alcohol used is minimal and propylene glycol just seems more "chemical" if that makes sense. It's used to de-ice planes and in vape juice.

 

I heard milk has chemicals that metabolize the benzo before it's consumed. Would love clarification on this, too.

[[go...]]

Hi Mountain,

 

You are crushing it; almost there! I'm reducing 0.003 per day. I'm usually okay in the morning and instead get evening anxiety before I dose. Have you found anything to help you cope with the am jitters?

 

Hi Suzie, could you be experiencing interdose withdrawal? It's 7:30 my time and I dose at 8:30. My anxiety is through the roof around this time and I'm trying to figure out a way to handle it.

[[mo...]]

Hi Mountain,

 

You are crushing it; almost there! I'm reducing 0.003 per day. I'm usually okay in the morning and instead get evening anxiety before I dose. Have you found anything to help you cope with the am jitters?

 

That’s great Suzie! .003 is awesome I’d be laid out atvthat pace. We will get there. I haven’t found anything for the jitters but I am leerry of trying anything that could affect my brain and try to just let my body do its thing while it’s healing. Every once in a while, maybe once per month, I’ll allow myself some kava tea to relax me but this is usually when it’s been a long few days with loud kids and I’m nearing end of my rope. Have you found anything to help? I’m always open to suggestions.

 

Hi Mountain,

I've been noticing that I feel better on the evenings I do gentle hatha yoga. It really calms and relaxes me. I'm trying more breathing exercises and kundalini yoga.

 

That’s really great! How long do you usually do yoga for? I know a little goes s long way. I was thinking about doing yoga tonight actually. I don’t do enough of it. Always did hatha I’ll need to learn about kundalini too.  I have still been walking about a mile a day but didn’t today. I know yoga helps so much but it’s in a way you can see or measure I know it helps our brain. I took a late nap so I think I need to do something before bed to sleep well. Wishing you much healing.

[[Su...]]

Hi Goya,

 

It could be interdose withdrawal. I was dosing 3 x's per day and dropped to 2 x's once I could split my dose evenly through DLMT. I was so relieved to only dose twice a day that I don't want to go back to 3 times. I am slowly moving up the time I dose and would like to have 13 hours between my evening and morning dose (since I usually don't feel symptoms in the morning) and 11 hours between my morning and evening dose to try and eliminate symptoms.

 

How many times are you dosing?

 

Mountain, I try and do yoga 2 or 3 times a week at a studio. At home, sometimes I'll just do a few sun salutations or a 20-minute video. Kundalini yoga is a very different form of yoga. It focuses more on breath work. I read an article by Kelly Brogan that recommended Kundalini specifically to help with tapering. Let me know if you try it and what you think of it. I hope you sleep well tonight!

[[go...]]

Hi Goya,

 

It could be interdose withdrawal. I was dosing 3 x's per day and dropped to 2 x's once I could split my dose evenly through DLMT. I was so relieved to only dose twice a day that I don't want to go back to 3 times. I am slowly moving up the time I dose and would like to have 13 hours between my evening and morning dose (since I usually don't feel symptoms in the morning) and 11 hours between my morning and evening dose to try and eliminate symptoms.

 

How many times are you dosing?

 

Mountain, I try and do yoga 2 or 3 times a week at a studio. At home, sometimes I'll just do a few sun salutations or a 20-minute video. Kundalini yoga is a very different form of yoga. It focuses more on breath work. I read an article by Kelly Brogan that recommended Kundalini specifically to help with tapering. Let me know if you try it and what you think of it. I hope you sleep well tonight!

 

I've been dosing 2X a day since 2008. Same dose. My doc refused a crossover to Valium which is very frustrating. She actually said Klonopin had the longer half-life when I tried to make my case. *sigh*

 

I didn't push it since finding a doc to at least keep you stable is so rare. So many think you can just reduce by .25 every two weeks and be done in a few months.

 

What solvent are you using for your DLMT? I was hoping to start mine today or tomorrow but came down with a sinus infection, so not sure I want to shock the CNS even more.

 

Latest side effect is sleep. No matter how hard I work during the day, I wake up in 2-3 hour intervals. We can safely take Benadryl, right?

[[Su...]]

Hi Goya,

 

I think it's a good idea to hold off on your taper until you feel better. It's really strange that your doc said K has a longer half life than V. I tried a crossover and found I had a paradoxical reaction to V.

 

Right now, I'm not using a solvent. Instead, I'm making a suspension with room temperature water and a vigorous shake before I draw up the amount to toss and again when I divide into the two doses. I know that's a controversial topic here. I will probably use a solvent to create a solution once my dose gets lower. Or move to Bob's method with pills.

 

I'm not sure about Benadryl. Something to talk with your doctor or pharmacist about. I was taking Benadryl every night for sleep and my doctor put me on K, saying it would be better. I was also poly-drugged with Trazadone, so that helps me sleep. Yet another thing I'll have to ween myself off of once this benzo battle is over. I think sleep hygiene is really important to get our bodies and brain to learn how to sleep again without medication. I know sometimes it sounds pointless, but I find I sleep better on the nights where I power down all electronics an hour before bed. Also trying to go to bed and get up around the same time every day.

 

Good luck as you begin your taper journey!

 

Mountain,

I just saw your dose in your signature. Great job!!

[[mo...]]

Hi Goya,

 

I think it's a good idea to hold off on your taper until you feel better. It's really strange that your doc said K has a longer half life than V. I tried a crossover and found I had a paradoxical reaction to V.

 

Right now, I'm not using a solvent. Instead, I'm making a suspension with room temperature water and a vigorous shake before I draw up the amount to toss and again when I divide into the two doses. I know that's a controversial topic here. I will probably use a solvent to create a solution once my dose gets lower. Or move to Bob's method with pills.

 

I'm not sure about Benadryl. Something to talk with your doctor or pharmacist about. I was taking Benadryl every night for sleep and my doctor put me on K, saying it would be better. I was also poly-drugged with Trazadone, so that helps me sleep. Yet another thing I'll have to ween myself off of once this benzo battle is over. I think sleep hygiene is really important to get our bodies and brain to learn how to sleep again without medication. I know sometimes it sounds pointless, but I find I sleep better on the nights where I power down all electronics an hour before bed. Also trying to go to bed and get up around the same time every day.

 

Good luck as you begin your taper journey!

 

Mountain,

I just saw your dose in your signature. Great job!!

 

Suzie I had to taper off Trazedone myself but really just stopped cold turkey bc I didn’t realize there would be symptom until I decided to research it after months. I experienced depression, rage and heart palpitations for some months but nothing like Klonopin. I’m doing Bobs pill method now and it’s going pretty well I realized today I’m down almost 25% from when I started on March 8th. Pretty excited about that. Rough few days now but hoping this wave ends soon. Much health to you.

[[...]]

Hi Goya,

 

I think it's a good idea to hold off on your taper until you feel better. It's really strange that your doc said K has a longer half life than V. I tried a crossover and found I had a paradoxical reaction to V.

 

Right now, I'm not using a solvent. Instead, I'm making a suspension with room temperature water and a vigorous shake before I draw up the amount to toss and again when I divide into the two doses. I know that's a controversial topic here. I will probably use a solvent to create a solution once my dose gets lower. Or move to Bob's method with pills.

 

I'm not sure about Benadryl. Something to talk with your doctor or pharmacist about. I was taking Benadryl every night for sleep and my doctor put me on K, saying it would be better. I was also poly-drugged with Trazadone, so that helps me sleep. Yet another thing I'll have to ween myself off of once this benzo battle is over. I think sleep hygiene is really important to get our bodies and brain to learn how to sleep again without medication. I know sometimes it sounds pointless, but I find I sleep better on the nights where I power down all electronics an hour before bed. Also trying to go to bed and get up around the same time every day.

 

Good luck as you begin your taper journey!

 

Mountain,

I just saw your dose in your signature. Great job!!

 

Suzie I had to taper off Trazedone myself but really just stopped cold turkey bc I didn’t realize there would be symptom until I decided to research it after months. I experienced depression, rage and heart palpitations for some months but nothing like Klonopin. I’m doing Bobs pill method now and it’s going pretty well I realized today I’m down almost 25% from when I started on March 8th. Pretty excited about that. Rough few days now but hoping this wave ends soon. Much health to you.

You are doing so well Mountaintop - I mean - there is no "good way or easy way" to stop benzos - but I think finding the path of least suffering is a path of success.

 

[[mo...]]

Thank you Bob! I tried to speed up a few days and really thought about it and why suffer more only to save maybe a few days or weeks from my taper and it would likely catch back up to me sooner or later anyway. So going the slow but sure route. I’m hoping the fact that I had lox on Sunday is accountable for the rough few days. Hope all is well with you Bob you help a lot of people. Very grateful.

[[bu...]]

 

Right now, I'm not using a solvent. Instead, I'm making a suspension with room temperature water and a vigorous shake before I draw up the amount to toss and again when I divide into the two doses. I know that's a controversial topic here. I will probably use a solvent to create a solution once my dose gets lower.

 

Why wait?  Why not do it right from the beginning?

 

And I really don't want to discourage you, but your really aren't making a suspension.  What your doing is putting your tablet in water, and hoping random "luck of the draw" will work in your favor.

 

Water does not have enough viscosity to suspend the particles.

[[Su...]]

Hi Builder,

 

Thanks for weighing in. I realize I'm not as exact as I could be with a solvent, but I don't want to use alcohol or PG and want to be able to carry it with me to dose outside of my home. Do you have any suggestions for what I could use as a solvent that doesn't need to be refrigerated?

 

I'm curious to hear your point of view with dry cutting. Since the drug isn't evenly distributed in the pill, wouldn't that cause the same problem with not knowing how much of the drug you're actually getting?

 

Suzie

[[de...]]

Hey everyone,

 

Havent been around in quite awhile but am trying to catch up with builder for some math help..I started a thread on the tapering board for math help..so maybe he will pop in here and see it.

 

I am going to go back to daily microtapering after i am done with figuring out this switch of brands which i am having to do now..and trying to do a slower cross over and also want to know if the weight would be the same with my middle dose and how i go about adding just so many .001gms to my dose to cross over with the brands..i am a nervous wreck over all of this.

 

Will check back in the morning and do some back reading to see how all of you are doing..and also check the long hold thread to see who all is still around..

 

 

Big hugs to everyone

 

deep

[[bu...]]

 

 

Thanks for weighing in. I realize I'm not as exact as I could be with a solvent, but I don't want to use alcohol or PG and want to be able to carry it with me to dose outside of my home. Do you have any suggestions for what I could use as a solvent that doesn't need to be refrigerated?

 

I'm curious to hear your point of view with dry cutting. Since the drug isn't evenly distributed in the pill, wouldn't that cause the same problem with not knowing how much of the drug you're actually getting?

 

Suzie

 

The only solvents that are demonstratably capable of dissolving most benzos are PG and alcohol (and neither require refrigeration)  You can google solubility for specific benzos, and you might find other possible solvents.

 

Dry cutting/scale cutting is definitely not as consistent or reliable as liquid, but it seems to work.  The reason is even though the drug isn't uniforlmly distributed in a tablet, it is at least randomly distributed.

 

Now I have no definiitive evidence of what happens when the benzo is dropped in water, but since it does NOT dissolve, and water can't suspend it, it probably either floats to the top, or sinks to the bottom.  So depending on how you extract the liquid, you might get none at all, or you might get the entire concentration in one pull, and be left with no benzo at all in the remainder. 

 

And just fyi, based on my experience with (3) failed "water tapers", that's probably what happened.  After about 5-6 days, I felt like I had done a CT.

 

And I really don't mean to sound judgemental, but I will never understand why folks who want to get off of benzos are unwilling to follow one of the simple protocols that we know works.

[[Ma...]]

Hello all,

 

I am relatively new to the BB forum and am currently doing the 10% cut every 4 weeks, but my symptoms are getting so bad that yesterday I talked to my doc and have decided to try the micro taper.  Is there a suggested scale on the forum somewhere? I am not extremely familiar with the site yet, but have found some great information so far.  I ordered a scale so that I could be precise, as I have lorazepam pills and they are small and seem very hard to cut and be exact enough so that i am not going up and down every other dose.  I think that is what has happened and why I am having such a hard time right now.  I am dry cutting the pills and it is so hard to get them cut in the right spot. 

 

I feel like I take a relatively small dose of lorazepam, but my symptoms sure seem big!!!! I hope that is normal, my biggest anxiety producer is of course my health so I spend most of my time obsessing about it!

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Maggie

[[...]]

Hello all,

 

I am relatively new to the BB forum and am currently doing the 10% cut every 4 weeks, but my symptoms are getting so bad that yesterday I talked to my doc and have decided to try the micro taper.  Is there a suggested scale on the forum somewhere? I am not extremely familiar with the site yet, but have found some great information so far.  I ordered a scale so that I could be precise, as I have lorazepam pills and they are small and seem very hard to cut and be exact enough so that i am not going up and down every other dose.  I think that is what has happened and why I am having such a hard time right now.  I am dry cutting the pills and it is so hard to get them cut in the right spot. 

 

I feel like I take a relatively small dose of lorazepam, but my symptoms sure seem big!!!! I hope that is normal, my biggest anxiety producer is of course my health so I spend most of my time obsessing about it!

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Maggie

Yes what your experiencing sounds very normal for benzo withdrawal. As for scales, one of the two links in my signature will take you to a webpage that shows equipment. On that equipment page you can see the scale I’ve used. I like it.

[[He...]]

 

 

Thanks for weighing in. I realize I'm not as exact as I could be with a solvent, but I don't want to use alcohol or PG and want to be able to carry it with me to dose outside of my home. Do you have any suggestions for what I could use as a solvent that doesn't need to be refrigerated?

 

I'm curious to hear your point of view with dry cutting. Since the drug isn't evenly distributed in the pill, wouldn't that cause the same problem with not knowing how much of the drug you're actually getting?

 

Suzie

 

The only solvents that are demonstratably capable of dissolving most benzos are PG and alcohol (and neither require refrigeration)  You can google solubility for specific benzos, and you might find other possible solvents.

 

Dry cutting/scale cutting is definitely not as consistent or reliable as liquid, but it seems to work.  The reason is even though the drug isn't uniforlmly distributed in a tablet, it is at least randomly distributed.

 

Now I have no definiitive evidence of what happens when the benzo is dropped in water, but since it does NOT dissolve, and water can't suspend it, it probably either floats to the top, or sinks to the bottom.  So depending on how you extract the liquid, you might get none at all, or you might get the entire concentration in one pull, and be left with no benzo at all in the remainder. 

 

And just fyi, based on my experience with (3) failed "water tapers", that's probably what happened.  After about 5-6 days, I felt like I had done a CT.

 

And I really don't mean to sound judgemental, but I will never understand why folks who want to get off of benzos are unwilling to follow one of the simple protocols that we know works.

 

Hi, Heathcliff here

I just want to put my two cents in here.  Bravo Builder. I agree 1000%.

Diluting liquid diazapam with water in a 10:1 solution is so easy to prepare a child coulddo it. Builder is the person who explained the entire procedure to me. I have been on a 10:1 solution from almosttgebeginning of my taper... so easy to make exact measurements with a ten ml oral syringe and a 1 ml oral syringe. So easy to make microscopic dose reductions. I just don’t understand why anyone would try to squash and dilute pills when it is so unstable and you never know how much diazapam you are actually getting. 

Im for liquid dilution all the way! Smooth sailing all the way down ot .001 if you want! (But that’s a bit nuts I think! )

 

Heathcliff  :thumbsup:

 

OH..AND... IMPORTANT....

DIAZAPAM, DILUTED WITH WATER IS 100% evenly diluted. Does not need refrigeration, will last in the diluted form for at least 2 - 2 1/2 weeks ( Ive done that and it is fine!) .

I’ve taken the diluted solution on airplanes in my carry on bag and also in my checked baggage. And also on a cruise...noproblem!

Only thing to Remember is to keep the amount you carry in checked baggage (or in your purse around town,) is not more than 3oz because of laws in the USA. Also keep it in n a bottle with the original prescription from the liquid diazapam that you got from the pharmacist.

 

Of course you will have to get a prescription from your doctor for liquid diazapam.1ml:1mg Roxanne brand liquid is what I use. It is readily available in the USA.

And someone on the forum will be able to help you with knowing how to make the solution.

I can do that, but I’m not too good about explaining it. I sure there is someone who can tell you how. Builder and Zvalleyum and Bella helped me. I am foreveri indebted to them.

 

I hope this helps, Heath

Good luck and peace be with you!

[[ga...]]

 

 

Thanks for weighing in. I realize I'm not as exact as I could be with a solvent, but I don't want to use alcohol or PG and want to be able to carry it with me to dose outside of my home. Do you have any suggestions for what I could use as a solvent that doesn't need to be refrigerated?

 

I'm curious to hear your point of view with dry cutting. Since the drug isn't evenly distributed in the pill, wouldn't that cause the same problem with not knowing how much of the drug you're actually getting?

 

Suzie

 

The only solvents that are demonstratably capable of dissolving most benzos are PG and alcohol (and neither require refrigeration)  You can google solubility for specific benzos, and you might find other possible solvents.

 

Dry cutting/scale cutting is definitely not as consistent or reliable as liquid, but it seems to work.  The reason is even though the drug isn't uniforlmly distributed in a tablet, it is at least randomly distributed.

 

Now I have no definiitive evidence of what happens when the benzo is dropped in water, but since it does NOT dissolve, and water can't suspend it, it probably either floats to the top, or sinks to the bottom.  So depending on how you extract the liquid, you might get none at all, or you might get the entire concentration in one pull, and be left with no benzo at all in the remainder. 

 

And just fyi, based on my experience with (3) failed "water tapers", that's probably what happened.  After about 5-6 days, I felt like I had done a CT.

 

And I really don't mean to sound judgemental, but I will never understand why folks who want to get off of benzos are unwilling to follow one of the simple protocols that we know works.

 

Hi, Heathcliff here

I just want to put my two cents in here.  Bravo Builder. I agree 1000%.

Diluting liquid diazapam with water in a 10:1 solution is so easy to prepare a child coulddo it. Builder is the person who explained the entire procedure to me. I have been on a 10:1 solution from almosttgebeginning of my taper... so easy to make exact measurements with a ten ml oral syringe and a 1 ml oral syringe. So easy to make microscopic dose reductions. I just don’t understand why anyone would try to squash and dilute pills when it is so unstable and you never know how much diazapam you are actually getting. 

Im for liquid dilution all the way! Smooth sailing all the way down ot .001 if you want! (But that’s a bit nuts I think! )

 

Heathcliff  :thumbsup:

 

OH..AND... IMPORTANT....

DIAZAPAM, DILUTED WITH WATER IS 100% evenly diluted. Does not need refrigeration, will last in the diluted form for at least 2 - 2 1/2 weeks ( Ive done that and it is fine!) .

I’ve taken the diluted solution on airplanes in my carry on bag and also in my checked baggage. And also on a cruise...noproblem!

Only thing to Remember is to keep the amount you carry in checked baggage (or in your purse around town,) is not more than 3oz because of laws in the USA. Also keep it in n a bottle with the original prescription from the liquid diazapam that you got from the pharmacist.

 

Of course you will have to get a prescription from your doctor for liquid diazapam.1ml:1mg Roxanne brand liquid is what I use. It is readily available in the USA.

And someone on the forum will be able to help you with knowing how to make the solution.

I can do that, but I’m not too good about explaining it. I sure there is someone who can tell you how. Builder and Zvalleyum and Bella helped me. I am foreveri indebted to them.

 

I hope this helps, Heath

Good luck and peace be with you!

 

Two thumbs up to builder and Heath!  :thumbsup: