Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[jr...]]

I had to up dose before starting liquid and it took 3 weeks b4 I felt well enuff to taper again

[[...]]

CTs really suck.  It can take many years to recover.  I didn't CT, yet it is as if I did.  I passed 49 months free the other day and it is still difficult to get through each day.  I believe I have significant glutamate damage from tapering too fast and pushing through symptoms to get off.

 

If you taper, I'd start with 1%/month.  If you can't do that without elevated symptoms I'd just stop.  I'm hesitant to encourage updosing, but it might work.  You can tell by my waffling that I don't have much of a feel for what might happen.  I don't have a clear read on updosing at all.

I'm sorry to hear that you are still having such bad sxs 49 months out. That really sucks too. Do you suffer from agoraphobia at all. That's my worst one. None of them are fun though. It's good to hear the stories of too fast tapering and what they can do to help others know that they should slow down.

 

Last month I tapered all of a half of 1% and it was pretty rough. Not sure if it was the tapering or a wave from the CT though. I'm still in it whatever it's from. I'm holding now. It actually helps me that you are waffling and are unsure of what might happen. It helps me have a better understanding that nothing is sure and if I decide to do it I will go into it knowing there may be no benefit. I did have someone suggest I try a four day updose to see what would happen but I don't even know if that would be long enough to see a difference. Would I be able to drop back to my current dose if I only updosed for four days?

 

There is an updose thread that I just started reading. It should be interesting to see what they have to say as well. Though I don't know if anyone has as much experience as you do SG. Thank you so much for all your input, it is invaluable.

 

Hugs and healing to you.

 

No, no agoraphobia or anxiety.  Dissociation, poor sleep, tardive dyskinesia, flat flat emotions, cognitive problems...those are the main ones.  I'm kind of shocked at the slow pace of recovery.

 

IDK about the four-day updose.  I am comfortable with one-day dosing having no adverse effect, but I don't know how far that can be extended.  It might be okay and the payoff might be worth the risk.

[[ga...]]

 

This support group may be a place to glean info about updosing. People also discuss it on the Long Hold thread.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=174254.0

[[...]]

Thanks everyone.

 

SG those sxs are definitely tough. I'm really surprised you are still having such difficulty as well. Did you have a lot of psych med history before the benzos?

 

JR had you been tapering already when you switched to liquid?

 

I will check out both of those threads. Thanks for the link Gard.

 

You guys are great. 

 

Hugs

[[...]]

SG, I just got a response from the moderator on the benzo thread of SA. I thought you might be interested in what she had to say. Here is a link to my thread and the post she made.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12391-tntd-severe-anxiety-with-agoraphobia-in-cold-turkey-withdrawal-dr-increased-benzo/?p=275316

 

Hugs,

 

T

[Guest [ba...]]

SG, I just got a response from the moderator on the benzo thread of SA. I thought you might be interested in what she had to say. Here is a link to my thread and the post she made.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12391-tntd-severe-anxiety-with-agoraphobia-in-cold-turkey-withdrawal-dr-increased-benzo/?p=275316

 

Hugs,

 

T

 

One needs to join that forum to read the message.

[[jr...]]

Thanks everyone.

 

SG those sxs are definitely tough. I'm really surprised you are still having such difficulty as well. Did you have a lot of psych med history before the benzos?

 

JR had you been tapering already when you switched to liquid?

 

I will check out both of those threads. Thanks for the link Gard.

 

You guys are great. 

 

Hugs

 

 

I had been dry tapering and couldnt get any lower on my scales. I decided to just go from 4 doses to three because I was feeling so good. Bad Idea!!! took about 10 days and BAM!!!

[[...]]

SG, I just got a response from the moderator on the benzo thread of SA. I thought you might be interested in what she had to say. Here is a link to my thread and the post she made.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12391-tntd-severe-anxiety-with-agoraphobia-in-cold-turkey-withdrawal-dr-increased-benzo/?p=275316

 

Hugs,

 

T

 

My main reaction to that is the amount of time you have been putting up with symptoms is not considered.  And also, your symptoms are from an AD CT so how is a benzo updose a remedy for that?  Updosing is time-sensitive, we know that much.  Do AD updoses behave the same way as benzos or are they more forgiving?

[[ga...]]

SG, I just got a response from the moderator on the benzo thread of SA. I thought you might be interested in what she had to say. Here is a link to my thread and the post she made.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12391-tntd-severe-anxiety-with-agoraphobia-in-cold-turkey-withdrawal-dr-increased-benzo/?p=275316

 

Hugs,

 

T

 

My main reaction to that is the amount of time you have been putting up with symptoms is not considered.  And also, your symptoms are from an AD CT so how is a benzo updose a remedy for that?  Updosing is time-sensitive, we know that much.  Do AD updoses behave the same way as benzos or are they more forgiving?

 

Can't read the SA message, but I assume she is telling you to updose your benzo, right? You are long off your AD and not going back, right?

 

How long were you on the AD before you CT it? Were you improving from your CT of the AD and relatively stable (life was tolerable) when you started your benzo taper?

 

Sorry, I am all questions and no answers.

 

Hope you figure this out soon.

 

Gard

[[Da...]]

Would a rescue dose be harmful?  This nausea is killing me and any chance at feeling some relief would be great. But don't want to risk setting myself back further.

 

I'm thinking of going up to 1.5 and dropping every day... like 1.5, 1.25, 1 and then .876

[[jr...]]

a rescue dose will be okay. I dont know that it will work right away. these drugs are very funny in how they have a lag time. If you are in misery , go back to 1.5 and get stable. You can taper later when you feel better. There is no hurry so be kind to yourself foremost

[[...]]

For those who couldn't read the link here you go:

 

"Hi, tntd.

 

You've been struggling with this for quite awhile and you've done your research here and over on BB, so I think a slight updose might be in order.

 

Here is some information on updosing from the benzo support site.

 

http://www.benzosupp...on_updosing.htm

 

Not a lot has been written about updosing because Dr. Ashton, who's one of the few authorities on benzo withdrawal, didn't encourage it. But that was most likely because her background was in the "craving" form of addiction rather than dependency. She was most likely afraid that people would continue on with benzos out of craving, but as we know from these support sites, people updose because the symptoms are intolerable, they aren't trying to get high. So if an updose helps, it's warranted and justified and I don't see a problem with trying.

 

As the benzosupport site I linked states:

 

How much and how fast a person should updose is going to be very variable but a very general rule would be to updose a small amount (1-2 mg valium equivalent) per day for 2-3 days and see how one feels at that point.  Another approach may be to go back to the dose on which that the person last felt comfortable.

 

If you wanted to updose by the equivalent of 1 mg Valium, you would add in .05 mg of Klonopin, using the equivalency found on the http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm  (10 mg Valium = .5 mg Klonopin, so 1 mg Valium = .05 mg Klonopin).

 

Adding the additional .05 mg in 3 times a day in addition to your usual dose of  .3902 mg 3 times a day would be a total of .4068 mg 3 times a day (.3902 mg + .0166 mg).

 

My thoughts are:

 

1. Updose to .4068 mg 3 times a day.

 

OR

 

2. Go back to the last dose that you felt stable and comfortable on.

 

I know you're doing a lot of research on this, so I'll be interested in what you find out and what your thoughts are.

 

Since it takes at least 4 days for your nervous system to register an increase and an additional number of days  or weeks for it to fully register, please give yourself plenty of time and space and lots of gentle self care.

 

I really think you started coming off your benzo too soon after a rather difficult antidepressant withdrawal. So I'm hoping a slight updose may give you the relief you need and you'll be able to resume your taper in a few weeks or even a few months."

 

 

SG, I just got a response from the moderator on the benzo thread of SA. I thought you might be interested in what she had to say. Here is a link to my thread and the post she made.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12391-tntd-severe-anxiety-with-agoraphobia-in-cold-turkey-withdrawal-dr-increased-benzo/?p=275316

 

Hugs,

 

T

 

My main reaction to that is the amount of time you have been putting up with symptoms is not considered.  And also, your symptoms are from an AD CT so how is a benzo updose a remedy for that?  Updosing is time-sensitive, we know that much.  Do AD updoses behave the same way as benzos or are they more forgiving?

 

From what I understand about AD's they are no more forgiving than Benzo's when it comes to reinstating. If you have been off of them for awhile reinstating will not always work and they suggest if it hasn't been more than two months that you only reinstate a small amount. However updosing seems to work well from what I've seen. It may be time sensitive too, I'm not sure about that.

 

I think that the updose of the benzo is meant to help with the AD CT sxs. Benzo's are often used to help someone who is coming off of or has been CT'd from an AD if they are experiencing a lot of anxiety. That was what my pdoc did with me and it helped until I moved the doses around from two to three due to interdose w/d. Once I did that the anxiety and agoraphobia got really bad again and I stopped having windows. I had been having regular windows before that. I'm wondering if my body viewed the movement as a cut and I didn't have enough benzo's in my system anymore to cover the CT sxs. The way the moderator explained it was that I would not have as high a peak of medication and that is why my body would think of it as a cut. I don't know if that makes sense. It does to me but I don't know if I wrote it out in a way that makes sense to others.

 

What do you think SG?

 

Thanks for all your insight and help.

 

I'm not going to finalize a decision on this until I talk with my pdoc next week. I fortunately have one that is letting me taper at my own speed, or updose, or whatever I need. He's letting me take the lead with professional input from him.

 

 

SG, I just got a response from the moderator on the benzo thread of SA. I thought you might be interested in what she had to say. Here is a link to my thread and the post she made.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12391-tntd-severe-anxiety-with-agoraphobia-in-cold-turkey-withdrawal-dr-increased-benzo/?p=275316

 

Hugs,

 

T

 

My main reaction to that is the amount of time you have been putting up with symptoms is not considered.  And also, your symptoms are from an AD CT so how is a benzo updose a remedy for that?  Updosing is time-sensitive, we know that much.  Do AD updoses behave the same way as benzos or are they more forgiving?

 

Can't read the SA message, but I assume she is telling you to updose your benzo, right? You are long off your AD and not going back, right?

 

How long were you on the AD before you CT it? Were you improving from your CT of the AD and relatively stable (life was tolerable) when you started your benzo taper?

 

Sorry, I am all questions and no answers.

 

Hope you figure this out soon.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gard,

 

Those are good questions. I was on my AD for six months when I CT'd it but I had been on it years previously and so probably kindled when I took it again. As I mentioned above I was improving from the CT until I moved my benzo doses around and then things went downhill. I thought maybe I was at tolerance though looking back now, hindsight is 20/20, I think it was more that my body thought I made a cut and so the benzo wasn't covering or helping with the CT sxs anymore. I was not particularly stable when I started cutting the benzo. I was functional in some ways but mostly not. Since we thought I was at tolerance and having sxs we felt I either had to updose or start cutting. With the way things are going I think I should have updosed.

 

Thanks for the questions Gard 

 

Hugs 

T

 

[[Ca...]]

Hey T,

I think what you describe with moving your dose around happened to me on the opiates...

-my peak wasnt as "high" and my body went into a hissy fit... Easy to fix short term, but i was forever chasing that peak, even if it were ever so brief... It seemed to outweigh the interdose w/d somehow...

 

Sorry we are talking apples and oranges... maybe the principal applies, maybe not...

-not that their is any solution in there either... sorry...

 

I admire your effort and thought processes though...

My Best Wishes...

 

[[ga...]]

Gosh, T, that's a long time to be on an AD and do a CT. I would think you were still recovering from that when you started your benzo taper. Your thoughts on moving from 2 times to 3 times make sense. I think I've read of others having similar problems. Interesting about Ashton mainly working with addicts. I didn't know that. Ashton also did this thing where she cut out doses as she dropped people lower, but she was pill splitting and maybe couldn't split the pills any smaller. Now I see people switching to liquid when they get that low and keeping all their doses the same all the way to the bottom. I like that idea. Changing the number of doses seems to have some risk no matter which direction you're going.

 

I wonder if some day people will look back at this and scratch their heads and wonder how we "pioneers" survived. We will be the ones who eventually figure this out and help the next generation get off this junk more easily. As you can see, I don't have a lot of hope that doctors and drug companies will stop being drug pushers in, say, the next 100 years!

 

I'm really glad you have such cooperative doctor.

 

Gard

[[ka...]]

Now I see people switching to liquid when they get that low and keeping all their doses the same all the way to the bottom. I like that idea. Changing the number of doses seems to have some risk no matter which direction you're going.

 

I wonder if some day people will look back at this and scratch their heads and wonder how we "pioneers" survived. We will be the ones who eventually figure this out and help the next generation get off this junk more easily. As you can see, I don't have a lot of hope that doctors and drug companies will stop being drug pushers in, say, the next 100 years!

 

I'm really glad you have such cooperative doctor.

 

Gard

 

Morning Gard - I agree with you! I have made the mistake of attempting to reduce my noon dose by .01ml and it was brutal. Well actually i tried it 2 times, cause i suppose once was not enough for me to learn to leave that alone and concentrate ( haha) on reducing the evening.  Now i know....

how are you doing friend?

[[...]]

My main reaction to that is the amount of time you have been putting up with symptoms is not considered.  And also, your symptoms are from an AD CT so how is a benzo updose a remedy for that?  Updosing is time-sensitive, we know that much.  Do AD updoses behave the same way as benzos or are they more forgiving?

From what I understand about AD's they are no more forgiving than Benzo's when it comes to reinstating. If you have been off of them for awhile reinstating will not always work and they suggest if it hasn't been more than two months that you only reinstate a small amount. However updosing seems to work well from what I've seen. It may be time sensitive too, I'm not sure about that.

 

I think that the updose of the benzo is meant to help with the AD CT sxs. Benzo's are often used to help someone who is coming off of or has been CT'd from an AD if they are experiencing a lot of anxiety. That was what my pdoc did with me and it helped until I moved the doses around from two to three due to interdose w/d. Once I did that the anxiety and agoraphobia got really bad again and I stopped having windows. I had been having regular windows before that. I'm wondering if my body viewed the movement as a cut and I didn't have enough benzo's in my system anymore to cover the CT sxs. The way the moderator explained it was that I would not have as high a peak of medication and that is why my body would think of it as a cut. I don't know if that makes sense. It does to me but I don't know if I wrote it out in a way that makes sense to others.

 

What do you think SG?

 

Thanks for all your insight and help.

 

I'm not going to finalize a decision on this until I talk with my pdoc next week. I fortunately have one that is letting me taper at my own speed, or updose, or whatever I need. He's letting me take the lead with professional input from him.

 

I wonder if the exact same thing happens with all psych drugs that are tapered too fast or CTed?  The symptoms certainly are remarkably similar in type and duration.  I'm not all that familiar with SA.  Is there information over there on what causes CT symptoms?  Do they also suspect glutamate damage?

 

I don't buy the whole dose-switching thing and the body perceiving it as a different dose.  Spreading doses clips off peaks, but it also fills in valleys.  In the end it is the same dose.

[[ga...]]

Now I see people switching to liquid when they get that low and keeping all their doses the same all the way to the bottom. I like that idea. Changing the number of doses seems to have some risk no matter which direction you're going.

 

I wonder if some day people will look back at this and scratch their heads and wonder how we "pioneers" survived. We will be the ones who eventually figure this out and help the next generation get off this junk more easily. As you can see, I don't have a lot of hope that doctors and drug companies will stop being drug pushers in, say, the next 100 years!

 

I'm really glad you have such cooperative doctor.

 

Gard

 

Morning Gard - I agree with you! I have made the mistake of attempting to reduce my noon dose by .01ml and it was brutal. Well actually i tried it 2 times, cause i suppose once was not enough for me to learn to leave that alone and concentrate ( haha) on reducing the evening.  Now i know....

how are you doing friend?

 

Sure hope you are past your wave, Kasey! I'm doing OK. Have slowed way down and am going to hold all of next week. I like to get to whole numbers on my syringe when I hold so I don't have so much trouble reading the darn little lines, so cutting until I hit 27ml.

 

Gard

[[...]]

My main reaction to that is the amount of time you have been putting up with symptoms is not considered.  And also, your symptoms are from an AD CT so how is a benzo updose a remedy for that?  Updosing is time-sensitive, we know that much.  Do AD updoses behave the same way as benzos or are they more forgiving?

From what I understand about AD's they are no more forgiving than Benzo's when it comes to reinstating. If you have been off of them for awhile reinstating will not always work and they suggest if it hasn't been more than two months that you only reinstate a small amount. However updosing seems to work well from what I've seen. It may be time sensitive too, I'm not sure about that.

 

I think that the updose of the benzo is meant to help with the AD CT sxs. Benzo's are often used to help someone who is coming off of or has been CT'd from an AD if they are experiencing a lot of anxiety. That was what my pdoc did with me and it helped until I moved the doses around from two to three due to interdose w/d. Once I did that the anxiety and agoraphobia got really bad again and I stopped having windows. I had been having regular windows before that. I'm wondering if my body viewed the movement as a cut and I didn't have enough benzo's in my system anymore to cover the CT sxs. The way the moderator explained it was that I would not have as high a peak of medication and that is why my body would think of it as a cut. I don't know if that makes sense. It does to me but I don't know if I wrote it out in a way that makes sense to others.

 

What do you think SG?

 

Thanks for all your insight and help.

 

I'm not going to finalize a decision on this until I talk with my pdoc next week. I fortunately have one that is letting me taper at my own speed, or updose, or whatever I need. He's letting me take the lead with professional input from him.

 

I wonder if the exact same thing happens with all psych drugs that are tapered too fast or CTed?  The symptoms certainly are remarkably similar in type and duration.  I'm not all that familiar with SA.  Is there information over there on what causes CT symptoms?  Do they also suspect glutamate damage?

 

I don't buy the whole dose-switching thing and the body perceiving it as a different dose.  Spreading doses clips off peaks, but it also fills in valleys.  In the end it is the same dose.

 

Hi SG,

 

I think the idea with the dose switching causing more anxiety is that even though it fills in the valleys you don't get that peak and that is why your body thinks there is a cut. The amount of medication is the same but there is not big peak of relief. What the moderator told me was that I wouldn't have the interdose withdrawal or the relief from the anxiety that the larger dose I was taking provided anymore but that the anxiety would stay at about the same level all the time now. I experienced major w/d sxs while I was moving my doses around. I have also read of other people experiencing major w/d sxs when moving their doses around. I did not know why at the time she told me after the fact that my body was perceiving it as a cut. I think it was because I wasn't just moving the doses around I was taking one high dose and one low dose and changing them all to the same amount spread out to three times a day.

 

My current moderator changed her mind and thinks I should just hold so you aren't the only one waffling SG I don't think anyone knows what would happen and that's the problem.

 

As to your question about whether they suspect glutamate damage the answer is yes it is part of the process they think occurs. Since you can't access SA I found a link to the founder of SA's story and her ideas. She was a medical researcher for a couple of years.  If you haven't read her story yet here it is: https://beyondmeds.com/2010/07/14/gabaglutamate/

 

Hey Gard,

 

Thanks. I hope thought that there will be a movement among doctors and they will figure it out. The more people/doctors that we let know about the horrors of psych drugs the less that will prescribe them or take them....hopefully!!

 

I had Dr. appointments all day yesterday, that was a struggle. I let them all know about the w/d I was experiencing and that my pdoc agrees that it is w/d. I've got some clout with him on my side Hopefully those doctors, as well as the residents, that I saw will learn about this and be more conservative in their prescribing of these drugs. We can hope so that other people don't have to live through this he!!.

 

I think all those appointments and exposure to all the noise and movement etc was overstimulating. I'm super anxious today. I woke with anxiety attacks around 5:00am. I really hate it when that happens. Hopefully it won't take very long to recover from my day at the hospital.

 

I think you are right that about the fact that I was still recovering from the CT when I started the benzo taper. I think I still am actually. Over on SA they talk about the risk of PAWS with a CT. So then how do I get off the benzo. I don't know if I can wait until I'm healed from the CT. Which one is causing the anxiety and agoraphobia, or are they in collusion?? Naughty drugs!!

 

I hope that you are progressing well in your taper. 

 

Hugs and healing to everyone 

T

[[Ul...]]

I just know that glutamate symptoms take time to evolve, they don't suddenly happen.  And it is likely that even though they might have begun to set in that a partial recovery can occur.  But how long?  I don't know.  I don't have much of a feel for it, and it might also vary from one person to the next.  It is good to jump on symptoms and not let them linger to avoid long term effects.

Thanks SG, I have also posted the question there. From previous experience they are very conservative in saying to updose with benzo's because that is just that much more you'll have to taper from.

 

I had a moderator tell me that taking benzo's could help the CNS heal faster because it calms the whole CNS down. She wasn't recommending an updose but we were discussing the amount of the benzo I was taking at the time and how it could help with the CT from the AD.

 

I'm wondering if I updosed the benzo could it stabilize me for a few months and then when I start to taper again it will be "easier". Right now any amount I try to taper has ended up causing a lot of w/d sxs. I also don't want to prolong the benzo taper but if I can stablize and heal my CNS some and then hold for awhile is it possible that this would allow my benzo taper to be less affected by the CT? In other words I could stop having daily anxiety and agoraphobia and just deal with the micro taper w/d sxs and then be able to stabilize again if I start to feel sxs start up. Has anyone even tried this with getting into trouble with benzo's themselves?

 

Thanks

T

 

That's true that updosing lengthens the taper, but the priority has to be getting symptoms under control.  I struggled with that during my own taper, but that was an emotional battle that was not logical or wise.

 

Updosing is really a crapshoot.  I wish I could say it would always help, but I've seen too many examples of it doing nothing at all and even cases where it made things worse.  The model I go by says that once glutamate symptoms are established they are not affected by an updose.  They are a different animal.  But it may help in your specific case, at least somewhat.

 

If you can't taper at all, even a little, I would just stop and recover from the CT.  That might take a long time.

 

SG you are amazing with your information. Thank you so much. I agree it really is an emotional battle which is neither logical or wise. I do a pros and cons list and it doesn't help.

 

I'm really concerned as to how long recovery from the CT will take. As I've seen on SA it can take years and I believe I'm already having issues with benzo tolerance. I had increased and different sxs as I held trying to stabilize after the CT. That was why I started trying to taper. I don't know if I can handle years of daily anxiety and agoraphobia and then have to go through a benzo taper.....there go the emotions again!!

 

I really appreciate your opinions on this they will help me as I try to decide what to do.

 

Oh, a comment. When I accidentally updosed back to my previous level I didn't notice any difference that day but the next day I was less anxious. I know it could just be a coincidence but that's what made me start wondering about the whole updosing thing.

 

Thanks again.

 

Hugs and healing

T

 

Just curious, T: What is SA?

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

[[bu...]]

website/forum....Surviving Antidepressants

[[Ul...]]

Now I see people switching to liquid when they get that low and keeping all their doses the same all the way to the bottom. I like that idea. Changing the number of doses seems to have some risk no matter which direction you're going.

 

I wonder if some day people will look back at this and scratch their heads and wonder how we "pioneers" survived. We will be the ones who eventually figure this out and help the next generation get off this junk more easily. As you can see, I don't have a lot of hope that doctors and drug companies will stop being drug pushers in, say, the next 100 years!

 

I'm really glad you have such cooperative doctor.

 

Gard

 

Morning Gard - I agree with you! I have made the mistake of attempting to reduce my noon dose by .01ml and it was brutal. Well actually i tried it 2 times, cause i suppose once was not enough for me to learn to leave that alone and concentrate ( haha) on reducing the evening.  Now i know....

how are you doing friend?

 

Sure hope you are past your wave, Kasey! I'm doing OK. Have slowed way down and am going to hold all of next week. I like to get to whole numbers on my syringe when I hold so I don't have so much trouble reading the darn little lines, so cutting until I hit 27ml.

 

Gard

 

Ha!! You crack me up, Gard! Me too...when I hit a whole number on the syringe, I'm a stayin' there for a while

 

Hugs to you,

 

Jeff

 

People who take medicine have to recover twice: Once from the disease and once from the medicine......

[[Ul...]]

website/forum....Surviving Antidepressants

 

Thanks, Builder.

 

Jeff

[[...]]

Yep, what Builder and Gard said, lol.

 

SA is Surviving Antidepressants but they also have a benzo forum.

 

I decided to do a hold and found I was at the .5mL mark so I took one more day just to get to the whole number. Are we all blind here? Even with my reading glasses I struggle with the in between marks 

 

 

[[ga...]]

It's those nasty little syringes, not us! Really! But I will admit my son has always been better at reading them than I have. Young eyes.

 

Gard

[[Se...]]

Plz someone HELP. Read my story. Give me some advice plzzzzz