Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[bu...]]

Does anyone know why 100ml graduated cylinders,are not consistent in their measurements. I just bought a 3rd and all three don't line up. Bought a plastic one for potential travel and it has much smaller increments.

 

They don't line up because the inner diameter of the cylinders are not exactly the same.  The spacing of the graduations will be has to be calibrated to the inner diameter of the cylinder.

 

And as long as you use same one, then you measurements will be consistent anyway, even if they are not perfectly "accurate". 

 

Just FYI, when I was tapering, I used a 1ml, a 10ml, and a 60ml syringe.  I periodically used each to check the others, and they were always spot-on.

[[Ma...]]

OH.  That makes sense, Builder. So , they are all accurate then?

[[bu...]]

OH.  That makes sense, Builder. So , they are all accurate then?

 

They are definitely "accurate" enough to mix and measure your benzo taper liquids! 

[[bu...]]

http://www.mathopenref.com/cylindervolume.html

[[Kg...]]

Dad:  I hesitate to disagree with so many here but for many of us who were on Klonopin long holds do not work at all nor does updosing.  For many of us, myself included, the only way we felt better was to go down on our dose and to get off.  See Gilster and Nomo's buddy blogs for  examples.  We all just kept going and now we all feel so much better.  If you ask people on the long hold boards they of course will tell you to hold because this is what worked for them.  I am not saying they are wrong - but they are basing it on their own experience as we all do.  So you need to find what works for you, not anyone else.  Just my 2 cents. 

[[ho...]]

Dad:  I hesitate to disagree with so many here but for many of us who were on Klonopin long holds do not work at all nor does updosing.  For many of us, myself included, the only way we felt better was to go down on our dose and to get off.  See Gilster and Nomo's buddy blogs for  examples.  We all just kept going and now we all feel so much better.  If you ask people on the long hold boards they of course will tell you to hold because this is what worked for them.  I am not saying they are wrong - but they are basing it on their own experience as we all do.  So you need to find what works for you, not anyone else.  Just my 2 cents.

hi K girl how did you taper your klonopin? Thank you!

[[Da...]]

Since I made that mistake in my dose, I've updosed a few times in small amounts trying to figure out what dose I should go back to. I'm on day 3 of my last stable dose (.876mg).

 

Would making those changes to my dose make my sxs worse? Friday I had horrific nausea, yesterday I had some relief and today is back to horrific. Just trying to make sense of what's going on with my body right now.

 

 

 

 

Kgirl, thanks for your input. I've done some month long holds but I never see improvements- usually get worse as time goes by.

[[ho...]]

Since I made that mistake in my dose, I've updosed a few times in small amounts trying to figure out what dose I should go back to. I'm on day 3 of my last stable dose (.876mg).

 

Would making those changes to my dose make my sxs worse? Friday I had horrific nausea, yesterday I had some relief and today is back to horrific. Just trying to make sense of what's going on with my body right now.

 

 

 

 

Kgirl, thanks for your input. I've done some month long holds but I never see improvements- usually get worse as time goes by.

like bataid told my friend an updose can get worse before it gets better. Yesterday wasn't that bad so thats good.  You'll just have to take it a day at a time. Everyone is different.  After my last Gigantic cut I couldn't even figure out steps how to make a sandwich. Thank God I did not keep tapering. I'd have done some serious damage. So this long hold has worked for me. But everyone is different, we all have different histories and genetic make ups that contribute. Hope you feel better.

[[Da...]]

My wife tried contacting bataid today and we got this response-

 

Hello

 

I'm assuming from your use of the word Klonopin that you are in the US.

 

Unfortunately we are unable to provide advice outside the UK because we

are only funded to provide services in our local area of the UK and our

funding has just been cut.

 

You can however make a one off call to our uk helpline for a single advice

call.  The number is 00 44 117 9663629 and the best time to try is between

17.30 and 19.00 UK time

 

Kate

 

--------

[[...]]

I don't know about stabilizing - he might still be able to taper, but it might make it harder to get rid of existing symptoms.  I think holding will eventually resolve any issue, but if symptoms are allowed to linger it can lead to a longer-term situation.  If not addressed, IMO, symptoms can become entrenched due to glutamate toxicity.  I liken it to a small CT...a longer-term type of injury occurs.  To me, tapering is all about avoiding this injury.

I'm confused by this statement. What if holding causes the symptoms to linger. I had to CT an AD due to a severe adverse reaction and I know I have glutamate toxicity from it. I've had anxiety and agoraphobia issues since I CT'd over nine months ago. Now I've run into a wave from that CT and I need to hold on my benzo taper but I've also been having sxs from my benzo and they started before I started tapering. If I hold and the sxs don't stabilize am I only digging a deeper hole of glutamate toxicity? How do glutamate sxs evolve? I don't want to do more damage by holding too long. Any information you might have on this would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Hugs and healing

 

For insight into what might be going on read Perseverance's research in the Chewing the Fat section.  My interpretation in a nutshell is that tapering is about benzo shortages.  The brain/CNS can function normally with a little less benzo, but there is a limit to how short it can be.  If you exceed the limit the glutamate injury process is set in motion.  If this is not addressed a longer-term symptom situation is set up.  Long term holding will eventually fix this, but it can be a very long, slow process.

 

Thanks SG, this makes more sense now. I gather from this that my CT caused a pretty bad glutamate injury that I'm still dealing with and is probably why even small tapering from the benzo's is difficult. 

 

 

[[ho...]]

My wife tried contacting bataid today and we got this response-

 

Hello

 

I'm assuming from your use of the word Klonopin that you are in the US.

 

Unfortunately we are unable to provide advice outside the UK because we

are only funded to provide services in our local area of the UK and our

funding has just been cut.

 

You can however make a one off call to our uk helpline for a single advice

call.  The number is 00 44 117 9663629 and the best time to try is between

17.30 and 19.00 UK time

 

Kate

 

--------

yes you have to call between those certain times and its going to be busy but keep trying til you get through. the persons name is una that you will probably talk to. i know they say one time call but i believe my friend has called more than once and they stayed on the phone with her for awhile.

[[...]]

For insight into what might be going on read Perseverance's research in the Chewing the Fat section.  My interpretation in a nutshell is that tapering is about benzo shortages.  The brain/CNS can function normally with a little less benzo, but there is a limit to how short it can be.  If you exceed the limit the glutamate injury process is set in motion.  If this is not addressed a longer-term symptom situation is set up.  Long term holding will eventually fix this, but it can be a very long, slow process.

Thanks SG, this makes more sense now. I gather from this that my CT caused a pretty bad glutamate injury that I'm still dealing with and is probably why even small tapering from the benzo's is difficult. 

 

I've wondered if CTs from other drugs like ADs also cause glutamate injury. The symptoms they experience seem virtually the same. It would not surprise me if your AD CT is affecting your benzo taper. Why would we expect the same nervous system to somehow isolate the two events?

[[...]]

For insight into what might be going on read Perseverance's research in the Chewing the Fat section.  My interpretation in a nutshell is that tapering is about benzo shortages.  The brain/CNS can function normally with a little less benzo, but there is a limit to how short it can be.  If you exceed the limit the glutamate injury process is set in motion.  If this is not addressed a longer-term symptom situation is set up.  Long term holding will eventually fix this, but it can be a very long, slow process.

Thanks SG, this makes more sense now. I gather from this that my CT caused a pretty bad glutamate injury that I'm still dealing with and is probably why even small tapering from the benzo's is difficult. 

 

I've wondered if CTs from other drugs like ADs also cause glutamate injury. The symptoms they experience seem virtually the same. It would not surprise me if your AD CT is affecting your benzo taper. Why would we expect the same nervous system to somehow isolate the two events?

 

This is so true. I don't think we should expect our nervous systme too differentiate the two. A CT from any psychotropic is causing extreme damage to our CNS as evidenced, like you said, by having virtually the same sxs.

 

I've had a hard time figuring out if my benzo has made my anxiety and agoraphobia worse. My pdoc said that he believes that I have glutamate exitotoxicity from my CT off the AD. He said he had a neurologist who was a good friend recommend CoQ10 to help with glutamate toxicity. He said the doses the neurologist recommended were really high. I've been on 200mg of CoQ10 for awhile now per my pdoc's recommendation. He thinks I should be on more. He's always talking about how my glutamate system is what is causing the problem. So according to one doctor anyway a CT from an AD will cause glutamate excitotoxicity and therfore a glutamate injury. He has no idea, other than the CoQ10, what to do for it though. We talk and he has no idea what to do for me that would help mitigate the symptoms. He told me to hold on my benzo when I went into my last wave which he immediately thought was the from the CT and not from the Benzo's.

 

Such an intersting topic.

 

Thanks again for your input.

[[Kg...]]

Hope I used cut and hold and then a micro taper using a gram scale.  I hope this helped.

[[ga...]]

Does anyone know why 100ml graduated cylinders,are not consistent in their measurements. I just bought a 3rd and all three don't line up. Bought a plastic one for potential travel and it has much smaller increments.

I wrote karter scientific about the accuracy of their cylinders. They responded that there's variations in the graduated intervals, forgot the range, and I wrote them back and they said my 100 ml cylinder could be 98 ml's or 102 mls. As builder and bad explained, as long as you use same one throughout doesn't matter if they're off that little bit.

I guess I was lucky because I have 3 from karter scientific and they are all exactly the same.

[[Pl...]]

I used American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20 Portable MilliGram Scale, It is available on amazon for $25. I ground 10 pills into a powder and weighed out my doses. I mixed them with water and drank them. It worked great for me until I got to .005g and then I switched to liquid.

I

That's what I use too... My question to you or anybody on this board (builder /SG) tell me if this is okay (brother does this for me):

 

1).  We first take about 10 pills in a batch and weigh them all then divide by 10 then get an average weight...( always is between 169 and 170 grams) then out of this particular batch we do dry cutting with the use of (2) .50 mg generic kolonopin pills . 

 

2) These two pills are used to make up 3 doses a day.

 

3). I am currently at .92 mg. conversion is about 103 grams per dose

 

THIS IS THE PART IM CONCERNED ABOUT:

 

My brother uses the pills from that batch  by cutting each of the 2 pills where they are scored into half ( making a total of 4 halves)

 

  - he will take 3 of the halves ( 1 half for each dose; then use the remaining half to divvy up among the three doses to achieve the desired weight for each)

  - is this okay to do?

  - should he be partially crushing all 10 pills and picking at random out of the batch or partially

    Crushing the 2 pills together ( meaning not a fine powder) to divide up?

  - or should all ten pills be crushed into a fine powder or at least the two pills?

  - I know its been reported there are variances in distribution in the pills

  - I just really need to know if what we are doing is the best way/acceptable/good enough way to do

      This when it comes to dry pill cutting

 

Couldn't do liquid; and I loved the method so much....

 

Thank you kindly for reading and responding.....

 

Hi Pleasebehere,

Yes, this is Ok, I did it similar. I checked the surface only of a pill and saw the very good distribution of clonazepam in a 0.5 mg Rivotril pill. So, instead of grounding powders I try to take a piece of pill instead until it was no longer possible due to the small dose.

All the best,

Clona

 

Thank you so much Clona! Very appreciated!

[[...]]

For insight into what might be going on read Perseverance's research in the Chewing the Fat section.  My interpretation in a nutshell is that tapering is about benzo shortages.  The brain/CNS can function normally with a little less benzo, but there is a limit to how short it can be.  If you exceed the limit the glutamate injury process is set in motion.  If this is not addressed a longer-term symptom situation is set up.  Long term holding will eventually fix this, but it can be a very long, slow process.

Thanks SG, this makes more sense now. I gather from this that my CT caused a pretty bad glutamate injury that I'm still dealing with and is probably why even small tapering from the benzo's is difficult. 

 

I've wondered if CTs from other drugs like ADs also cause glutamate injury. The symptoms they experience seem virtually the same. It would not surprise me if your AD CT is affecting your benzo taper. Why would we expect the same nervous system to somehow isolate the two events?

 

This is so true. I don't think we should expect our nervous systme too differentiate the two. A CT from any psychotropic is causing extreme damage to our CNS as evidenced, like you said, by having virtually the same sxs.

 

I've had a hard time figuring out if my benzo has made my anxiety and agoraphobia worse. My pdoc said that he believes that I have glutamate exitotoxicity from my CT off the AD. He said he had a neurologist who was a good friend recommend CoQ10 to help with glutamate toxicity. He said the doses the neurologist recommended were really high. I've been on 200mg of CoQ10 for awhile now per my pdoc's recommendation. He thinks I should be on more. He's always talking about how my glutamate system is what is causing the problem. So according to one doctor anyway a CT from an AD will cause glutamate excitotoxicity and therfore a glutamate injury. He has no idea, other than the CoQ10, what to do for it though. We talk and he has no idea what to do for me that would help mitigate the symptoms. He told me to hold on my benzo when I went into my last wave which he immediately thought was the from the CT and not from the Benzo's.

 

Such an intersting topic.

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

I've been thinking about what SG said about the glutamate injury and my situation and I'm wondering if I've just made it worse by starting to taper when I might not, probably am not, healed from the CT yet. Is my tapering uncovering more and worse sxs from the CT. It has also made me wonder if I should updose and maybe even increase my dose until I stabilize. Will this help me be able to taper more easily in the long run and maybe even make it a faster taper. Will it help my CNS heal more quickly from the CT if I calm it with the benzo?

 

I'm really struggling and really confusted as to what to do. The daily anxiety and severe agoraphobia are exhausting. I haven't had a window or any relief from them since December and then it was only a few hours. Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hugs and healing to everyone.

[[...]]

This is so true. I don't think we should expect our nervous systme too differentiate the two. A CT from any psychotropic is causing extreme damage to our CNS as evidenced, like you said, by having virtually the same sxs.

 

I've had a hard time figuring out if my benzo has made my anxiety and agoraphobia worse. My pdoc said that he believes that I have glutamate exitotoxicity from my CT off the AD. He said he had a neurologist who was a good friend recommend CoQ10 to help with glutamate toxicity. He said the doses the neurologist recommended were really high. I've been on 200mg of CoQ10 for awhile now per my pdoc's recommendation. He thinks I should be on more. He's always talking about how my glutamate system is what is causing the problem. So according to one doctor anyway a CT from an AD will cause glutamate excitotoxicity and therfore a glutamate injury. He has no idea, other than the CoQ10, what to do for it though. We talk and he has no idea what to do for me that would help mitigate the symptoms. He told me to hold on my benzo when I went into my last wave which he immediately thought was the from the CT and not from the Benzo's.

 

Such an intersting topic.

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

I've been thinking about what SG said about the glutamate injury and my situation and I'm wondering if I've just made it worse by starting to taper when I might not, probably am not, healed from the CT yet. Is my tapering uncovering more and worse sxs from the CT. It has also made me wonder if I should updose and maybe even increase my dose until I stabilize. Will this help me be able to taper more easily in the long run and maybe even make it a faster taper. Will it help my CNS heal more quickly from the CT if I calm it with the benzo?

 

I'm really struggling and really confusted as to what to do. The daily anxiety and severe agoraphobia are exhausting. I haven't had a window or any relief from them since December and then it was only a few hours. Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hugs and healing to everyone.

 

I think it is very possible that a benzo taper will aggravate an AD CT recovery.  These are different receptor systems, but there seems to be interplay between them.  We know the glutamate system is dramatically affected by benzos even though the benzo acts on GABA.

 

If you taper, I'd go by symptom level.  If symptoms do not get worse then the cut rate is probably okay and your brain is dealing with it.  If you taper I'd go very slow, but not tapering at all and just allowing your brain to rest and untangle the AD CT is probably best for health.

 

In all honesty, I think over on SA they would have more informed input for you since they deal with polydrugging and likely have seen more examples.

[[ga...]]

This is so true. I don't think we should expect our nervous systme too differentiate the two. A CT from any psychotropic is causing extreme damage to our CNS as evidenced, like you said, by having virtually the same sxs.

 

I've had a hard time figuring out if my benzo has made my anxiety and agoraphobia worse. My pdoc said that he believes that I have glutamate exitotoxicity from my CT off the AD. He said he had a neurologist who was a good friend recommend CoQ10 to help with glutamate toxicity. He said the doses the neurologist recommended were really high. I've been on 200mg of CoQ10 for awhile now per my pdoc's recommendation. He thinks I should be on more. He's always talking about how my glutamate system is what is causing the problem. So according to one doctor anyway a CT from an AD will cause glutamate excitotoxicity and therfore a glutamate injury. He has no idea, other than the CoQ10, what to do for it though. We talk and he has no idea what to do for me that would help mitigate the symptoms. He told me to hold on my benzo when I went into my last wave which he immediately thought was the from the CT and not from the Benzo's.

 

Such an intersting topic.

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

I've been thinking about what SG said about the glutamate injury and my situation and I'm wondering if I've just made it worse by starting to taper when I might not, probably am not, healed from the CT yet. Is my tapering uncovering more and worse sxs from the CT. It has also made me wonder if I should updose and maybe even increase my dose until I stabilize. Will this help me be able to taper more easily in the long run and maybe even make it a faster taper. Will it help my CNS heal more quickly from the CT if I calm it with the benzo?

 

I'm really struggling and really confusted as to what to do. The daily anxiety and severe agoraphobia are exhausting. I haven't had a window or any relief from them since December and then it was only a few hours. Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hugs and healing to everyone.

 

I think it is very possible that a benzo taper will aggravate an AD CT recovery.  These are different receptor systems, but there seems to be interplay between them.  We know the glutamate system is dramatically affected by benzos even though the benzo acts on GABA.

 

If you taper, I'd go by symptom level.  If symptoms do not get worse then the cut rate is probably okay and your brain is dealing with it.  If you taper I'd go very slow, but not tapering at all and just allowing your brain to rest and untangle the AD CT is probably best for health.

 

In all honesty, I think over on SA they would have more informed input for you since they deal with polydrugging and likely have seen more examples.

SG, anybody, do you know anything about how long it's OK to wait and still try an updose? I have read somewhere that after a certain point, it is less likely to work. Or am I wrong? Curious for T's sake.

[[...]]

I think it is very possible that a benzo taper will aggravate an AD CT recovery.  These are different receptor systems, but there seems to be interplay between them.  We know the glutamate system is dramatically affected by benzos even though the benzo acts on GABA.

 

If you taper, I'd go by symptom level.  If symptoms do not get worse then the cut rate is probably okay and your brain is dealing with it.  If you taper I'd go very slow, but not tapering at all and just allowing your brain to rest and untangle the AD CT is probably best for health.

 

In all honesty, I think over on SA they would have more informed input for you since they deal with polydrugging and likely have seen more examples.

SG, anybody, do you know anything about how long it's OK to wait and still try an updose? I have read somewhere that after a certain point, it is less likely to work. Or am I wrong? Curious for T's sake.

 

I just know that glutamate symptoms take time to evolve, they don't suddenly happen.  And it is likely that even though they might have begun to set in that a partial recovery can occur.  But how long?  I don't know.  I don't have much of a feel for it, and it might also vary from one person to the next.  It is good to jump on symptoms and not let them linger to avoid long term effects.

[[...]]

I think it is very possible that a benzo taper will aggravate an AD CT recovery.  These are different receptor systems, but there seems to be interplay between them.  We know the glutamate system is dramatically affected by benzos even though the benzo acts on GABA.

 

If you taper, I'd go by symptom level.  If symptoms do not get worse then the cut rate is probably okay and your brain is dealing with it.  If you taper I'd go very slow, but not tapering at all and just allowing your brain to rest and untangle the AD CT is probably best for health.

 

In all honesty, I think over on SA they would have more informed input for you since they deal with polydrugging and likely have seen more examples.

SG, anybody, do you know anything about how long it's OK to wait and still try an updose? I have read somewhere that after a certain point, it is less likely to work. Or am I wrong? Curious for T's sake.

 

I just know that glutamate symptoms take time to evolve, they don't suddenly happen.  And it is likely that even though they might have begun to set in that a partial recovery can occur.  But how long?  I don't know.  I don't have much of a feel for it, and it might also vary from one person to the next.  It is good to jump on symptoms and not let them linger to avoid long term effects.

 

Thanks SG, I have also posted the question there. From previous experience they are very conservative in saying to updose with benzo's because that is just that much more you'll have to taper from.

 

I had a moderator tell me that taking benzo's could help the CNS heal faster because it calms the whole CNS down. She wasn't recommending an updose but we were discussing the amount of the benzo I was taking at the time and how it could help with the CT from the AD.

 

I'm wondering if I updosed the benzo could it stabilize me for a few months and then when I start to taper again it will be "easier". Right now any amount I try to taper has ended up causing a lot of w/d sxs. I also don't want to prolong the benzo taper but if I can stablize and heal my CNS some and then hold for awhile is it possible that this would allow my benzo taper to be less affected by the CT? In other words I could stop having daily anxiety and agoraphobia and just deal with the micro taper w/d sxs and then be able to stabilize again if I start to feel sxs start up. Has anyone even tried this with getting into trouble with benzo's themselves?

 

Thanks

T

[[...]]

I just know that glutamate symptoms take time to evolve, they don't suddenly happen.  And it is likely that even though they might have begun to set in that a partial recovery can occur.  But how long?  I don't know.  I don't have much of a feel for it, and it might also vary from one person to the next.  It is good to jump on symptoms and not let them linger to avoid long term effects.

Thanks SG, I have also posted the question there. From previous experience they are very conservative in saying to updose with benzo's because that is just that much more you'll have to taper from.

 

I had a moderator tell me that taking benzo's could help the CNS heal faster because it calms the whole CNS down. She wasn't recommending an updose but we were discussing the amount of the benzo I was taking at the time and how it could help with the CT from the AD.

 

I'm wondering if I updosed the benzo could it stabilize me for a few months and then when I start to taper again it will be "easier". Right now any amount I try to taper has ended up causing a lot of w/d sxs. I also don't want to prolong the benzo taper but if I can stablize and heal my CNS some and then hold for awhile is it possible that this would allow my benzo taper to be less affected by the CT? In other words I could stop having daily anxiety and agoraphobia and just deal with the micro taper w/d sxs and then be able to stabilize again if I start to feel sxs start up. Has anyone even tried this with getting into trouble with benzo's themselves?

 

Thanks

T

 

That's true that updosing lengthens the taper, but the priority has to be getting symptoms under control.  I struggled with that during my own taper, but that was an emotional battle that was not logical or wise.

 

Updosing is really a crapshoot.  I wish I could say it would always help, but I've seen too many examples of it doing nothing at all and even cases where it made things worse.  The model I go by says that once glutamate symptoms are established they are not affected by an updose.  They are a different animal.  But it may help in your specific case, at least somewhat.

 

If you can't taper at all, even a little, I would just stop and recover from the CT.  That might take a long time.

[[...]]

I just know that glutamate symptoms take time to evolve, they don't suddenly happen.  And it is likely that even though they might have begun to set in that a partial recovery can occur.  But how long?  I don't know.  I don't have much of a feel for it, and it might also vary from one person to the next.  It is good to jump on symptoms and not let them linger to avoid long term effects.

Thanks SG, I have also posted the question there. From previous experience they are very conservative in saying to updose with benzo's because that is just that much more you'll have to taper from.

 

I had a moderator tell me that taking benzo's could help the CNS heal faster because it calms the whole CNS down. She wasn't recommending an updose but we were discussing the amount of the benzo I was taking at the time and how it could help with the CT from the AD.

 

I'm wondering if I updosed the benzo could it stabilize me for a few months and then when I start to taper again it will be "easier". Right now any amount I try to taper has ended up causing a lot of w/d sxs. I also don't want to prolong the benzo taper but if I can stablize and heal my CNS some and then hold for awhile is it possible that this would allow my benzo taper to be less affected by the CT? In other words I could stop having daily anxiety and agoraphobia and just deal with the micro taper w/d sxs and then be able to stabilize again if I start to feel sxs start up. Has anyone even tried this with getting into trouble with benzo's themselves?

 

Thanks

T

 

That's true that updosing lengthens the taper, but the priority has to be getting symptoms under control.  I struggled with that during my own taper, but that was an emotional battle that was not logical or wise.

 

Updosing is really a crapshoot.  I wish I could say it would always help, but I've seen too many examples of it doing nothing at all and even cases where it made things worse.  The model I go by says that once glutamate symptoms are established they are not affected by an updose.  They are a different animal.  But it may help in your specific case, at least somewhat.

 

If you can't taper at all, even a little, I would just stop and recover from the CT.  That might take a long time.

 

SG you are amazing with your information. Thank you so much. I agree it really is an emotional battle which is neither logical or wise. I do a pros and cons list and it doesn't help.

 

I'm really concerned as to how long recovery from the CT will take. As I've seen on SA it can take years and I believe I'm already having issues with benzo tolerance. I had increased and different sxs as I held trying to stabilize after the CT. That was why I started trying to taper. I don't know if I can handle years of daily anxiety and agoraphobia and then have to go through a benzo taper.....there go the emotions again!!

 

I really appreciate your opinions on this they will help me as I try to decide what to do.

 

Oh, a comment. When I accidentally updosed back to my previous level I didn't notice any difference that day but the next day I was less anxious. I know it could just be a coincidence but that's what made me start wondering about the whole updosing thing.

 

Thanks again.

 

Hugs and healing

T

[[...]]

That's true that updosing lengthens the taper, but the priority has to be getting symptoms under control.  I struggled with that during my own taper, but that was an emotional battle that was not logical or wise.

 

Updosing is really a crapshoot.  I wish I could say it would always help, but I've seen too many examples of it doing nothing at all and even cases where it made things worse.  The model I go by says that once glutamate symptoms are established they are not affected by an updose.  They are a different animal.  But it may help in your specific case, at least somewhat.

 

If you can't taper at all, even a little, I would just stop and recover from the CT.  That might take a long time.

SG you are amazing with your information. Thank you so much. I agree it really is an emotional battle which is neither logical or wise. I do a pros and cons list and it doesn't help.

 

I'm really concerned as to how long recovery from the CT will take. As I've seen on SA it can take years and I believe I'm already having issues with benzo tolerance. I had increased and different sxs as I held trying to stabilize after the CT. That was why I started trying to taper. I don't know if I can handle years of daily anxiety and agoraphobia and then have to go through a benzo taper.....there go the emotions again!!

 

I really appreciate your opinions on this they will help me as I try to decide what to do.

 

Oh, a comment. When I accidentally updosed back to my previous level I didn't notice any difference that day but the next day I was less anxious. I know it could just be a coincidence but that's what made me start wondering about the whole updosing thing.

 

Thanks again.

 

Hugs and healing

T

 

CTs really suck.  It can take many years to recover.  I didn't CT, yet it is as if I did.  I passed 49 months free the other day and it is still difficult to get through each day.  I believe I have significant glutamate damage from tapering too fast and pushing through symptoms to get off.

 

If you taper, I'd start with 1%/month.  If you can't do that without elevated symptoms I'd just stop.  I'm hesitant to encourage updosing, but it might work.  You can tell by my waffling that I don't have much of a feel for what might happen.  I don't have a clear read on updosing at all.

[[...]]

That's true that updosing lengthens the taper, but the priority has to be getting symptoms under control.  I struggled with that during my own taper, but that was an emotional battle that was not logical or wise.

 

Updosing is really a crapshoot.  I wish I could say it would always help, but I've seen too many examples of it doing nothing at all and even cases where it made things worse.  The model I go by says that once glutamate symptoms are established they are not affected by an updose.  They are a different animal.  But it may help in your specific case, at least somewhat.

 

If you can't taper at all, even a little, I would just stop and recover from the CT.  That might take a long time.

SG you are amazing with your information. Thank you so much. I agree it really is an emotional battle which is neither logical or wise. I do a pros and cons list and it doesn't help.

 

I'm really concerned as to how long recovery from the CT will take. As I've seen on SA it can take years and I believe I'm already having issues with benzo tolerance. I had increased and different sxs as I held trying to stabilize after the CT. That was why I started trying to taper. I don't know if I can handle years of daily anxiety and agoraphobia and then have to go through a benzo taper.....there go the emotions again!!

 

I really appreciate your opinions on this they will help me as I try to decide what to do.

 

Oh, a comment. When I accidentally updosed back to my previous level I didn't notice any difference that day but the next day I was less anxious. I know it could just be a coincidence but that's what made me start wondering about the whole updosing thing.

 

Thanks again.

 

Hugs and healing

T

 

CTs really suck.  It can take many years to recover.  I didn't CT, yet it is as if I did.  I passed 49 months free the other day and it is still difficult to get through each day.  I believe I have significant glutamate damage from tapering too fast and pushing through symptoms to get off.

 

If you taper, I'd start with 1%/month.  If you can't do that without elevated symptoms I'd just stop.  I'm hesitant to encourage updosing, but it might work.  You can tell by my waffling that I don't have much of a feel for what might happen.  I don't have a clear read on updosing at all.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you are still having such bad sxs 49 months out. That really sucks too. Do you suffer from agoraphobia at all. That's my worst one. None of them are fun though. It's good to hear the stories of too fast tapering and what they can do to help others know that they should slow down.

 

Last month I tapered all of a half of 1% and it was pretty rough. Not sure if it was the tapering or a wave from the CT though. I'm still in it whatever it's from. I'm holding now. It actually helps me that you are waffling and are unsure of what might happen. It helps me have a better understanding that nothing is sure and if I decide to do it I will go into it knowing there may be no benefit. I did have someone suggest I try a four day updose to see what would happen but I don't even know if that would be long enough to see a difference. Would I be able to drop back to my current dose if I only updosed for four days?

 

There is an updose thread that I just started reading. It should be interesting to see what they have to say as well. Though I don't know if anyone has as much experience as you do SG. Thank you so much for all your input, it is invaluable.

 

Hugs and healing to you.