Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Pl...]]

This is so embarrassing to ask but I have to in spite of it....

 

I get confused with decimal places and numbers bad....especially in this state.....

 

Is .007 mg more than 0.0029 mg?  I'm assuming yes... Because if you round .0029 it would be .003? Thus making .007 greater? Super embarrassment thank you...

 

You are absolutely.............correct!

 

Ok... Thanks... I'm not that far gone yet...actually I am.. 

 

I was cutting .001 grams of a Kpin pill that weighs between 169 and 170 grams which converted to mgs would be .0029mg per cut .... If I did 1 cut a week total of 4 cuts a month the total mgs would be roughly a .01 mg drop say from .92mg to .91 mg? Does that make sense?

 

.0029mg x 4 cuts equals .0116 mg.....

 

I believe that's roughly 1.10 percent a month?

 

I worry about the accuracy of the scales and the cuts at this amount of the pills as I couldn't do a liquid daily micro taper even at 1 percent a month for various reasons....

 

Does this sound feasible and doable? 

 

[[Ul...]]

Wow, I can't thank everyone enough for all your replies.

 

Jeff it seems like we have more and more in common!

 

I came to the conclusion that I am in a wave from my CT. There is no way that such a tiny cut could have caused such big sxs and for so long. I agree with you Jeff that I need to chill for a little while. I'm going to hold for a bit. I'm not sure how long. I have an appointment with my pdoc tomorrow so I'll discuss it with him and with my ever patient husband. I'm wondering if my tapering has caused this wave from the CT or if it would have happened anyway. I've seen that a lot of people get hit with waves around three, six, and nine months. Tomorrow will be nine months to the day. I got hit pretty hard at three months too. I've been in tolerance with the benzo for eight of those months.

 

Jeff, how long did you wait after your CT before you started your benzo taper?

 

I really wanted to say more to everyone who left me posts, they were all so helpful and made me feel so supported. Thank you all so much  You guys are the best. I have to get to bed now or my husband will turn into a pumpkin

 

Hugs 

T

 

 

Hugs

 

Hey, sweet lady! Well, I didn't wait any certain period of time to begin my benzo taper because I didn't even know what a benzo taper was at that time! In other words, I wasn't even in the tapering process yet. That CT affected me pretty badly for well over a year. It was several years after that when I learned about benzo tolerance, tapering, BB's, etc. I began my K taper after first getting off the other psych meds that lovely docs had me on. They also ECT'd my brain, so I was a complete mess by then. I'm sure that all of those experiences affected my benzo taper as well as the mega dose I was on for 21+ yrs. Just the way it goes. I'm also convinced that all of that has contributed to why I have to taper so ridiculously slow with this K. I can't do anything else about it, so I just do the best I can and try not to dwell on it all. Everybody has their battles!!

 

Keep chuggin' along and do the best you can to stay away from benzo-related stuff for a while!!

 

Moocho hugs!

 

Jeff

[[Me...]]

Tntd

I took the full 50 last night and it helped. When you mentioned that below 50 you get reverse effect, that sealed the deal. Problem is I've been slowly tapering to 25 for 6 months. But getting rid of the benzo is #1. If it helps, it's another hard choice.

I did not have any problems jumping off Trazadone at 50mg. I did have Vistaril 25 to 50 mg for sleep as needed but I never needed it. I hope you do as well as I did.

Mellow

[[...]]

Hi Gard,

 

I'm also on the Surviving Antidepressants forum and they also talk about people who have CT'd having flare ups later on down the road. I'm going to have to hold my benzo taper for awhile as this wave is kicking my butt  I don't know if I'm up to reading about it but I may take a look at the CT and protracted forums. Just a peak...

 

Hi Jeff my sweet man,

 

Sounds like you've been through the ringer! I can't believe what they have done to you. All in the name of an unproven theory! My pdoc and I have chatted about the chemical imbalance theory and how it is being disproven so that comes from a personal pdoc source  Your faith and strength are really inspiring. 

 

I think I'm going to have to hold for awhile. I'm not sure how long. I saw my psychologist today and he said he has never seen anyone struggle with w/d the way I have been. At least he believes me and can see what I'm going through. My pdoc said he thinks my losing my daughter as a constant support person triggered my AD CT wave. Nothing else has changed. I'm still amazed he even believes I'm in w/d from an AD. He also told me to hold my benzo. He said we aren't on any time line and in no hurry. As far as he's concerned we could updose me and I could stay on the benzo to which I said no. He has suggested other meds to help with the CT sxs, seroquel anyone? He has also suggested it for a fast taper if I decide I want to go that route. He also recommended looking into CBD Oil. This is a VA doc! He's pretty awesome 

 

Anyway, I had to do an unexpected updose today. I take my liquid meds with me so I can take them on schedule. I accidentally dropped the bag that was holding the plastic cup containing my dose for this afternoon. The cup broke and the liquid was all over the inside of the bag and even started to leak out a bit. My pdoc gave me a .5mg dose to replace my .3905mg dose. There was no way I would have been able to measure out a new dose when I got home plus it was hours later by then. I measure three doses for each day and I'm sure they aren't equal doses just the same amount each day so I really have no idea exactly how much was in that container. Should I worry about a one time updose? I've got my meds made up for tomorrow and it's back to the dose I've been taking.

 

Hugs and healing to everyone and thank you for all your input and help it has been greatly appreciated.

 

:smitten:

 

[[jr...]]

Nova1 has started a support group for those updosing. Check it out if you want.

[[st...]]

SG57

 

                 

His highest dose was 30mg, he didn't stay at that dose for long and quickly brought the dose down to 20mg quickly with no major issues and then down to 11.8mg in 12 months microcutting with high end scales .0010g cuts daily on average.  (.9mg per month)

Planning to switch to 2mg tablets but maybe now isn't the best time, any thoughts.

How much would you consider a long hold, maybe a small updose or keep holding and see if it settles. He describes it as acute levels intermittantly. Concussion not helping the situation..

 

It has been a  difficult balance between trying to get concussion symptoms and withdrawal symptoms at bay.

Also what are your thoughts on concussion, probably not your area of expertise but we are 

Tossing up whether to slowly titrate to reduce inflamation but need to consider sensitivities. Do you know anyone on benzo buddies that is well versed in pharmacology. Really need some solid info on supplements..

 

Lot of questions might be easier to break it down into smaller posts in future

 

Thanks for your help

                   

[[st...]]

Builder

                        He cuts daily so its hard to know when he last felt better but it was probably close to a month ago now, he has been holding on and off a lot in the past few months due to some outside stress and concussion.

We have labratory grade scales that measure .0001 and were very expensive. Extremely accurate also.

Have been coming down about .9mg a month by shaving .0010 daily he has handled this pretty well considering his previous kindling and sensitivities.We obviously want this to go as smooth as possible, it's been a long journey and we need to keep the taper going in some way, shape or form. Tried switching to a diazapam elixer with pills about a year ago but not sure if he tolerated it, thats when I purchased the scales and started dry cutting.

Are there any other options for liquid, not keen to put alcohol in as a solvent as he is so sensitive. I am putting some questions out there so we have some resources to draw on before we make any decisions. It's up to us at the end of the day

but you can never have enough info when making impotant decisions on something as debilitating as this. In your opinion, what is the advantage of using the liquid?

Thanks for your help.

 

[[Pl...]]

Builder

                        He cuts daily so its hard to know when he last felt better but it was probably close to a month ago now, he has been holding on and off a lot in the past few months due to some outside stress and concussion.

We have labratory grade scales that measure .0001 and were very expensive. Extremely accurate also.

Have been coming down about .9mg a month by shaving .0010 daily he has handled this pretty well considering his previous kindling and sensitivities.We obviously want this to go as smooth as possible, it's been a long journey and we need to keep the taper going in some way, shape or form. Tried switching to a diazapam elixer with pills about a year ago but not sure if he tolerated it, thats when I purchased the scales and started dry cutting.

Are there any other options for liquid, not keen to put alcohol in as a solvent as he is so sensitive. I am putting some questions out there so we have some resources to draw on before we make any decisions. It's up to us at the end of the day

but you can never have enough info when making impotant decisions on something as debilitating as this. In your opinion, what is the advantage of using the liquid?

Thanks for your help.

Can you tell me the name of the scale and brand and how much it roughly costs? Thank you or you can pm me info if that is acceptable?

[[Pl...]]

Nova1 has started a support group for those updosing. Check it out if you want.

 

Jr.... Didnt you have a really good scale that you used too? You even posted a picture of it? I think it was you....

 

If it was and if you could, may you please post the info again with your experience on using the scale...

 

Thank you kindly....  If it wasnt you, my apologies and please disregard.

[[...]]

SG57

 

                 

His highest dose was 30mg, he didn't stay at that dose for long and quickly brought the dose down to 20mg quickly with no major issues and then down to 11.8mg in 12 months microcutting with high end scales .0010g cuts daily on average.  (.9mg per month)

Planning to switch to 2mg tablets but maybe now isn't the best time, any thoughts.

How much would you consider a long hold, maybe a small updose or keep holding and see if it settles. He describes it as acute levels intermittantly. Concussion not helping the situation..

 

It has been a  difficult balance between trying to get concussion symptoms and withdrawal symptoms at bay.

Also what are your thoughts on concussion, probably not your area of expertise but we are 

Tossing up whether to slowly titrate to reduce inflamation but need to consider sensitivities. Do you know anyone on benzo buddies that is well versed in pharmacology. Really need some solid info on supplements..

 

Lot of questions might be easier to break it down into smaller posts in future

 

Thanks for your help

                 

 

If he felt good a month ago at about 12.7mg it might be worth a shot to go right back there and hold.  It has only been a few weeks so the symptoms might not be entrenched yet.

 

Has he been tapering at .9mg/month the entire time?  At 20mg this is 4.5%/month and at 11.8mg it is 7.6%/month.  Both are generally considered quite slow, but ultimately 'slow' is what Ben's body says it is.

 

A long hold is whatever it takes and can last months, if needed.

 

IDK about concussions.  There is a TBI website by the Brain Injury Association of America.  I believe most states have a chapter.

[[jr...]]

I used American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20 Portable MilliGram Scale, It is available on amazon for $25. I ground 10 pills into a powder and weighed out my doses. I mixed them with water and drank them. It worked great for me until I got to .005g and then I switched to liquid.

[[Ca...]]

tntd,

 

what a day for you, im sure... The moment where the bottom falls out the boat.... Dont worry about the dose, forget it ever happened...

 

Hope the Drs went well, must have been Dr day everywhere today....

[[bu...]]

Builder

                       

Are there any other options for liquid, not keen to put alcohol in as a solvent as he is so sensitive. I am putting some questions out there so we have some resources to draw on before we make any decisions. It's up to us at the end of the day

but you can never have enough info when making impotant decisions on something as debilitating as this. In your opinion, what is the advantage of using the liquid?

Thanks for your help.

 

The amount of alcohol is miniscule...1-2ml vodka (.4-.8ml alcohol) would be the max per day.  But you can use propylene glycol just as easily.  There is also an Rx liquid available.

 

Prepping, measuring, dosing with liquid is much easier, less labor intensive.  And the distribution in liquid meds is much more uniform. 

[[ga...]]

tntd,

 

what a day for you, im sure... The moment where the bottom falls out the boat.... Dont worry about the dose, forget it ever happened...

 

Hope the Drs went well, must have been Dr day everywhere today....

Agreed. A one-time dose is a rescue dose. Dr. Shipko allows them in his Xanax taper book and I've not heard of anyone having trouble with one.

[[Pl...]]

I used American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20 Portable MilliGram Scale, It is available on amazon for $25. I ground 10 pills into a powder and weighed out my doses. I mixed them with water and drank them. It worked great for me until I got to .005g and then I switched to liquid.

 

That's what I use too... My question to you or anybody on this board (builder /SG) tell me if this is okay (brother does this for me):

 

1).  We first take about 10 pills in a batch and weigh them all then divide by 10 then get an average weight...( always is between 169 and 170 grams) then out of this particular batch we do dry cutting with the use of (2) .50 mg generic kolonopin pills . 

 

2) These two pills are used to make up 3 doses a day.

 

3). I am currently at .92 mg. conversion is about 103 grams per dose

 

THIS IS THE PART IM CONCERNED ABOUT:

 

My brother uses the pills from that batch  by cutting each of the 2 pills where they are scored into half ( making a total of 4 halves)

 

  - he will take 3 of the halves ( 1 half for each dose; then use the remaining half to divvy up among the three doses to achieve the desired weight for each)

  - is this okay to do?

  - should he be partially crushing all 10 pills and picking at random out of the batch or partially

    Crushing the 2 pills together ( meaning not a fine powder) to divide up?

  - or should all ten pills be crushed into a fine powder or at least the two pills?

  - I know its been reported there are variances in distribution in the pills

  - I just really need to know if what we are doing is the best way/acceptable/good enough way to do

      This when it comes to dry pill cutting

 

Couldn't do liquid; and I loved the method so much....

 

Thank you kindly for reading and responding.....

 

 

[[ed...]]

Builder

                        He cuts daily so its hard to know when he last felt better but it was probably close to a month ago now, he has been holding on and off a lot in the past few months due to some outside stress and concussion.

We have labratory grade scales that measure .0001 and were very expensive. Extremely accurate also.

Have been coming down about .9mg a month by shaving .0010 daily he has handled this pretty well considering his previous kindling and sensitivities.We obviously want this to go as smooth as possible, it's been a long journey and we need to keep the taper going in some way, shape or form. Tried switching to a diazapam elixer with pills about a year ago but not sure if he tolerated it, thats when I purchased the scales and started dry cutting.

Are there any other options for liquid, not keen to put alcohol in as a solvent as he is so sensitive. I am putting some questions out there so we have some resources to draw on before we make any decisions. It's up to us at the end of the day

but you can never have enough info when making impotant decisions on something as debilitating as this. In your opinion, what is the advantage of using the liquid?

Thanks for your help.

Can you tell me the name of the scale and brand and how much it roughly costs? Thank you or you can pm me info if that is acceptable?

 

 

This is what I use and it performs very well.  I don't want to link to a commercial site, but if you type in Tree HRB-224, you'll find this item on sale at a few places for between $700-$800.

 

Best of luck,

Ed

[[Da...]]

Hey all- updosed some to level out again but feeling really nauseous still today. Anxiety seems to be leveling off but nausea not so much. I have an appt today with pdoc so I'm afraid he will tell me "told you so" with the liquid since I'm still symptomatic.  We will see. Does anyone else get anxious about seeing their pdoc? Any thoughts on how many days it'll take for these sxs to settle back down with the updose I did?

[[Pl...]]

Builder

                        He cuts daily so its hard to know when he last felt better but it was probably close to a month ago now, he has been holding on and off a lot in the past few months due to some outside stress and concussion.

We have labratory grade scales that measure .0001 and were very expensive. Extremely accurate also.

Have been coming down about .9mg a month by shaving .0010 daily he has handled this pretty well considering his previous kindling and sensitivities.We obviously want this to go as smooth as possible, it's been a long journey and we need to keep the taper going in some way, shape or form. Tried switching to a diazapam elixer with pills about a year ago but not sure if he tolerated it, thats when I purchased the scales and started dry cutting.

Are there any other options for liquid, not keen to put alcohol in as a solvent as he is so sensitive. I am putting some questions out there so we have some resources to draw on before we make any decisions. It's up to us at the end of the day

but you can never have enough info when making impotant decisions on something as debilitating as this. In your opinion, what is the advantage of using the liquid?

Thanks for your help.

Can you tell me the name of the scale and brand and how much it roughly costs? Thank you or you can pm me info if that is acceptable?

 

 

This is what I use and it performs very well.  I don't want to link to a commercial site, but if you type in Tree HRB-224, you'll find this item on sale at a few places for between $700-$800.

 

Best of luck,

Ed

 

Edzo... Yes! This is what I remember seeing.... Thank you very much for sharing this info with me!

One more question though, have you ever used any other scale to compare this too as far as accuracy such as the Gemini one that I use and noticed a difference?  Thank you

 

 

[[...]]

Thanks Gard and Cantfly,

 

I haven't noticed any difference so far and I went back to my normal dose at my next scheduled dose. It was so horrible to open my bad and see my meds all over the inside. That's why I bought plastic, but plastic breaks too...obviously! I was already in a really bad place so that just made things worse. I'm hoping I don't crash tomorrow after being back on my regular dose for a full 24 hours. Your reasurrance that that doesn't usually happen really helped. 

 

My dr's apts went well. My psychologist has never seen anyone with as severe w/d as I have but he believes me and supports me so that is helpful. My psychiatrist asked me if I had a stressor and I told him my daughter started working more hours and I'm alone most of the time now. He said he believes that is what caused my wave and he believes it's from the AD and has nothing to do with the benzo. He also said to hold the benzo for now and wants to see me in two weeks. He's trying to figure out some sort of medication to help me but I don't really want to use any other medications after this experience and the knowledge I've gained about psychotropic medications.

 

Hugs,

T

[[Da...]]

Can anyone share their klonopin DLMT success story?

[[ed...]]

Builder

                        He cuts daily so its hard to know when he last felt better but it was probably close to a month ago now, he has been holding on and off a lot in the past few months due to some outside stress and concussion.

We have labratory grade scales that measure .0001 and were very expensive. Extremely accurate also.

Have been coming down about .9mg a month by shaving .0010 daily he has handled this pretty well considering his previous kindling and sensitivities.We obviously want this to go as smooth as possible, it's been a long journey and we need to keep the taper going in some way, shape or form. Tried switching to a diazapam elixer with pills about a year ago but not sure if he tolerated it, thats when I purchased the scales and started dry cutting.

Are there any other options for liquid, not keen to put alcohol in as a solvent as he is so sensitive. I am putting some questions out there so we have some resources to draw on before we make any decisions. It's up to us at the end of the day

but you can never have enough info when making impotant decisions on something as debilitating as this. In your opinion, what is the advantage of using the liquid?

Thanks for your help.

Can you tell me the name of the scale and brand and how much it roughly costs? Thank you or you can pm me info if that is acceptable?

 

 

This is what I use and it performs very well.  I don't want to link to a commercial site, but if you type in Tree HRB-224, you'll find this item on sale at a few places for between $700-$800.

 

Best of luck,

Ed

 

Edzo... Yes! This is what I remember seeing.... Thank you very much for sharing this info with me!

One more question though, have you ever used any other scale to compare this too as far as accuracy such as the Gemini one that I use and noticed a difference?  Thank you

 

Yes, I used the Gemini ($25 version) and it worked fine and dandy until around 4mg or so. After that, my super sensitive system needed something more accurate. The Gemini, in my experience, experiences a variation of +/- .003. The scale above, in my experience, experiences variation of only +/- .0002. Quite a difference for those who are super sensitive. I'm by no means telling anyone to go out and buy a scale like this. Most don't need it.  But I did and I'm glad I spent the money.  That fourth decimal place makes a huge difference to me.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Ul...]]

Hi Gard,

 

I'm also on the Surviving Antidepressants forum and they also talk about people who have CT'd having flare ups later on down the road. I'm going to have to hold my benzo taper for awhile as this wave is kicking my butt  I don't know if I'm up to reading about it but I may take a look at the CT and protracted forums. Just a peak...

 

Hi Jeff my sweet man,

 

Sounds like you've been through the ringer! I can't believe what they have done to you. All in the name of an unproven theory! My pdoc and I have chatted about the chemical imbalance theory and how it is being disproven so that comes from a personal pdoc source  Your faith and strength are really inspiring. 

 

I think I'm going to have to hold for awhile. I'm not sure how long. I saw my psychologist today and he said he has never seen anyone struggle with w/d the way I have been. At least he believes me and can see what I'm going through. My pdoc said he thinks my losing my daughter as a constant support person triggered my AD CT wave. Nothing else has changed. I'm still amazed he even believes I'm in w/d from an AD. He also told me to hold my benzo. He said we aren't on any time line and in no hurry. As far as he's concerned we could updose me and I could stay on the benzo to which I said no. He has suggested other meds to help with the CT sxs, seroquel anyone? He has also suggested it for a fast taper if I decide I want to go that route. He also recommended looking into CBD Oil. This is a VA doc! He's pretty awesome 

 

Anyway, I had to do an unexpected updose today. I take my liquid meds with me so I can take them on schedule. I accidentally dropped the bag that was holding the plastic cup containing my dose for this afternoon. The cup broke and the liquid was all over the inside of the bag and even started to leak out a bit. My pdoc gave me a .5mg dose to replace my .3905mg dose. There was no way I would have been able to measure out a new dose when I got home plus it was hours later by then. I measure three doses for each day and I'm sure they aren't equal doses just the same amount each day so I really have no idea exactly how much was in that container. Should I worry about a one time updose? I've got my meds made up for tomorrow and it's back to the dose I've been taking.

 

Hugs and healing to everyone and thank you for all your input and help it has been greatly appreciated.

 

:smitten:

 

Hey tnt!! I sent you a PM....

 

Jeff

[[an...]]

Thanks Gard and Cantfly,

 

I haven't noticed any difference so far and I went back to my normal dose at my next scheduled dose. It was so horrible to open my bad and see my meds all over the inside. That's why I bought plastic, but plastic breaks too...obviously! I was already in a really bad place so that just made things worse. I'm hoping I don't crash tomorrow after being back on my regular dose for a full 24 hours. Your reasurrance that that doesn't usually happen really helped. 

 

My dr's apts went well. My psychologist has never seen anyone with as severe w/d as I have but he believes me and supports me so that is helpful. My psychiatrist asked me if I had a stressor and I told him my daughter started working more hours and I'm alone most of the time now. He said he believes that is what caused my wave and he believes it's from the AD and has nothing to do with the benzo. He also said to hold the benzo for now and wants to see me in two weeks. He's trying to figure out some sort of medication to help me but I don't really want to use any other medications after this experience and the knowledge I've gained about psychotropic medications.

 

Hugs,

T

 

Hi TNTD,

 

The up dose will not make a difference.

 

I use these glass containers for my doses.  They come in different sizes.  I use the 100 mL jar for my doses.  The lids are tight fitting and I can shake the jar with no leakage.  I also carry them in my purse and absolutely no leakage.  They are a bit pricey but worth it to me.

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XR5T48/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Anne

[[ho...]]

Hey all- updosed some to level out again but feeling really nauseous still today. Anxiety seems to be leveling off but nausea not so much. I have an appt today with pdoc so I'm afraid he will tell me "told you so" with the liquid since I'm still symptomatic.  We will see. Does anyone else get anxious about seeing their pdoc? Any thoughts on how many days it'll take for these sxs to settle back down with the updose I did?

hi I know they started an updose group as quite a few people have had to updose recently. I wish I could tell you more.

[[ga...]]

Hey all- updosed some to level out again but feeling really nauseous still today. Anxiety seems to be leveling off but nausea not so much. I have an appt today with pdoc so I'm afraid he will tell me "told you so" with the liquid since I'm still symptomatic.  We will see. Does anyone else get anxious about seeing their pdoc? Any thoughts on how many days it'll take for these sxs to settle back down with the updose I did?

 

YES!!