Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Hi SG. Hope you are doing well.

 

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

Mellow

 

I took your advice and went back up to 50. So you had no withdrawal jumping at 50mg traz?

[[...]]

Magnolis,

 

It's nice to hear other doctors say the same thing. My psychologist is always telling me that I'm brave for doing what I'm doing. You are right though. We have an end game, no matter how long it takes to get there.

 

How are you feeling now that you have reinstated your Trazadone to 50mg?

 

Kasey,

 

I'm glad I could articulate your thoughts 

 

Hugs to all, we will prevail! 

[[Ul...]]

Jeff,

 

I don't know how you do it and keep such a postive attitude. I really admire that. I at least have been getting sleep so far but I think the other med I'm on helps with that.

 

I'm sorry to hear that every night is a terror. I can't imagine dealing with that. How do you manage a sxs based taper if you are always having sxs? Serious questions as I'm there too just with different sxs.

 

Yeah, I don't know what he does with them. I was at tolerance and having sxs before I started my taper so I can't imagine the dosage I would need. I upped it twice over the summer and the improvement in my sxs only lasted two weeks each. I asked him how high I would need to be on a dose because I adapt so quickly and he said NASA high! In other words it wouldn't work for me! I guess the other people don't have the tolerance problem. Still, can you imagine what it's doing to their brains 

 

If I was on a dose that high I would be a space cadet 

 

Every dose reduction is a step in the right direction!! Well get there one small step, or cut, at a time .

 

Hugs 

 

Hey Miss tnt! The sleep thingy is a major bummer, and I'm not always so positive...I just try to fake it until I make it...until the next hour, at least. Next month will make 24 years on this benzo stuff (not to mention the other bag full of drugs and "therapies" along the way). Typically, my night times stink the high heavens and then the mornings are full of depression. I start to get a little window in the early to late afternoon. My "good" time is usually between 4pm and 8pm. I think I start to freak a little around 8pm simply because I know that the night time is coming. I'm sure there's a big psychological component in the night situation by this point, but it's brutal no matter if it's psychological or physiological. Like everybody else, some days are worse than others, but on the decent days I just do my best to act positively in whatever I'm doing, if anything. Some days I simply can't go anywhere, but I can usually at least get outside to get some exercise or whatever. Lots of prayer time!! I miss the social component of life, but I do some church activities if I feel I can handle them. It's too bad some of us in this group can't get together to encourage each other. I don't think anybody can truly understand this unless they've been through it themselves. Same with anything in life, I guess.

 

Keep rowing the boat, girl!! We'll find the shore one of these days. Hugs!

 

And, hugs to Gard too!!

 

Jeff

[[Ma...]]

Tntd

I took the full 50 last night and it helped. When you mentioned that below 50 you get reverse effect, that sealed the deal. Problem is I've been slowly tapering to 25 for 6 months. But getting rid of the benzo is #1. If it helps, it's another hard choice.

[[Da...]]

Hi friends,

 

I started my DLMT yesterday and today I'm feeling more anxious. Would I see sxs after 2 days? Or is it a coincidence?

[[jr...]]

Hi friends,

 

I started my DLMT yesterday and today I'm feeling more anxious. Would I see sxs after 2 days? Or is it a coincidence?

 

The good thing bout a DLMT is if you feel bad , just hold a couple of days. I had to hold several times on the way down but the side effects cleared after 2-3 days.

[[ga...]]

I just want to thank you, jr, for sticking around and helping even though you are FREE!

[[jr...]]

Well. you are very welcome Gard. My intention all along was to give back because without you guys , I would not have made it. I didn't have a clue as to slow taper or DLMT.

[[St...]]

Builder or SG, ok, about three months ago I tapered down 1 mg of v every month for three months, started to get seizure like sxs, like someone who withdrew too fast.  (Actually, my husband made a math mistake),, I thought I was going down 1/4 mg...but oh well, that is done with. went from 9mg to 6, and then had the seizures things..went to er they said not seizures, doc also said nope, not real seizures, my heart rate has been up too, but not too bad, around 80 or so.  I updosed to 8 mg of v about a month ago, some improvement but not a lot.  Should I updose more if the doc will let me?  Is this a common reaction to going too fast? 

 

Sorry this is not a dt question, but need some help...I am also still on 6.25cr ambien, and thought maybe I need to be tapering that too, but I need to kNOW if I can cut the cr tabs/  i'm getting mixed answers on this.  Some say yes, and some say no...Is 6.25 mg cr a lot larger dose than 5 mg of regular ambien, would that in itself be a big cut?  I think my doc would let me do that.  I am not very stable right now....but have been on the ambien at this dose for over 2 years, could be tolerance?  Doc and pharmacist say NO CUTTING , but facebook admin, said people do cut it and it makes it just regular ambien? True?

 

 

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Everything that I've read/heard suggests that extended release (CR) pills cannot be used.  You'd want to switch to regular (non-CR) pills.

[[bu...]]

1) 6.25 tablets contain 25% more med than 5 mg tablets.

 

2)  CR tablets use different mfg methods.  As a generalization, they should not be cut or broken to modify dosage.

[[St...]]

thank you for your answers. 

 

[[St...]]

Would there be a way to make that 25% drop more gentle, I'm not even sure how to taper a z drug.  do I weigh 10 pills and get the weight and cut by percent?  same as benzos?  Also, can it take more than a month to feel an updose improvement?  SO SORRY for all the questions....my doc things z drugs are harmless and can just drop one and start another sleep med...sigh....Scary doctors!!!!

[[Da...]]

I posted yesterday and I appreciate the reply I got.  I'm new to DLMT and I can't tell if what I'm experiencing is withdrawal or just being anxious about what my body is currently going through. I was on an antibiotic a couple weeks ago and had sxs from that then took a probiotic and had sxs from that. My gut is still messed up and I'm wicked anxious about that- I want a Ct scan to make sure I don't have cancer or something but my Dr said my insurance won't cover it. I'm convinced there's more going on in there.

 

Id been holding for a month at my last dose and I'm dropping .006mg per day from .875mg. I dose three times a day so I take .02ml off each dose.  Should I keep going and if I see more sxs tomorrow or the next day hold?

[[jr...]]

Builder or SG, ok, about three months ago I tapered down 1 mg of v every month for three months, started to get seizure like sxs, like someone who withdrew too fast.  (Actually, my husband made a math mistake),, I thought I was going down 1/4 mg...but oh well, that is done with. went from 9mg to 6, and then had the seizures things..went to er they said not seizures, doc also said nope, not real seizures, my heart rate has been up too, but not too bad, around 80 or so.  I updosed to 8 mg of v about a month ago, some improvement but not a lot.  Should I updose more if the doc will let me?  Is this a common reaction to going too fast? 

 

Sorry this is not a dt question, but need some help...I am also still on 6.25cr ambien, and thought maybe I need to be tapering that too, but I need to kNOW if I can cut the cr tabs/  i'm getting mixed answers on this.  Some say yes, and some say no...Is 6.25 mg cr a lot larger dose than 5 mg of regular ambien, would that in itself be a big cut?  I think my doc would let me do that.  I am not very stable right now....but have been on the ambien at this dose for over 2 years, could be tolerance?  Doc and pharmacist say NO CUTTING , but facebook admin, said people do cut it and it makes it just regular ambien? True?

 

cutting your cr pill makes it instant release.

[[St...]]

so that would be like a regular ambien then

 

[[bu...]]

so that would be like a regular ambien then

 

As I said above, CR tablets use different manufacturing processes.  In some cases, the major difference is simply a kind of "encapsulating" process, which slows down the deconstruction of the tablet.  In that case, cutting them would make them more like a conventional tablet.  (I made that mistake when I first got my scrip for potassium citrate  )

 

But there are other manufacturing techniques that can slow the release by changing the density, the solubility, or other characteristic. 

 

As  precaution, I would only use CR (ER, SR, etc) exactly as prescribed.

[[...]]

Hi Dad,

 

I've been cutting .0019mg a day and found that I had sxs after just two days as well. I'm sure the health anxiety isn't helping your sxs either. GI sxs are pretty common though for w/d. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get it checked though.

 

How did things go during your hold? Did your sxs improve at all?

 

Like Jr said, the nice thing about the dlmt is that you can stop if the sxs get to bad and it shouldn't take too long for things to settle back to your baseline.

 

Hugs

[[Ca...]]

I posted yesterday and I appreciate the reply I got.  I'm new to DLMT and I can't tell if what I'm experiencing is withdrawal or just being anxious about what my body is currently going through. I was on an antibiotic a couple weeks ago and had sxs from that then took a probiotic and had sxs from that. My gut is still messed up and I'm wicked anxious about that- I want a Ct scan to make sure I don't have cancer or something but my Dr said my insurance won't cover it. I'm convinced there's more going on in there.

 

Id been holding for a month at my last dose and I'm dropping .006mg per day from .875mg. I dose three times a day so I take .02ml off each dose.  Should I keep going and if I see more sxs tomorrow or the next day hold?

Dad, perhaps holding would be a good idea, it soundx like you need to work out whats what.. considering your last few months, I dont think a one month hold has besn nearly enough for you... sometimes when we get rather messed up 6months hold or longer is needed... hopefully your sxs will tell you... personally, I would aim for a month of being relativly sx free before starting your actual liquid taper...

But thats only my opinion... you have to make choices that you are happy with...

But all the "what ifs" you describe, I have had, my Drs have had, and many others on here have had...

A good set of bloods, will usually tell a Dr if they need to investigate further..

 

Have u had a look on the long hold support group for info, or read what is referred to as the propaganda list?

It might give you some clarity or peace of mind... I have a link if you want it...

 

All the best, feel well...

 

[Guest [ba...]]

so that would be like a regular ambien then

 

As I said above, CR tablets use different manufacturing processes.  In some cases, the major difference is simply a kind of "encapsulating" process, which slows down the deconstruction of the tablet.  In that case, cutting them would make them more like a conventional tablet.  (I made that mistake when I first got my scrip for potassium citrate  )

 

But there are other manufacturing techniques that can slow the release by changing the density, the solubility, or other characteristic. 

 

As  precaution, I would only use CR (ER, SR, etc) exactly as prescribed.

 

Yep!  :thumbsup:

[[In...]]

Okay.  Today is day 14  of my DLMT from Valium.  I haven't cut yet, just switched to 5mg pill and 1.66mg in liquid per dose. 

Since I have switched, I have NEVER been able to measure out the exact amount I'm supposed to have.  I use the same equipment and same syringes.  I'm afraid to make more then one day at a time, since I cannot seem to get 3 equal bowls (when measured out with syringe), but my three bowls look relatively equal.  And if they don't, I try to even them up.  How can I fix this?  I use a graduated cylinder, I have a 60ml syringe, a 10ml syringe, and a 1ml syringe.  I first just used the 10ml and the 1ml, buy that got tedious, as I had to pull liquid 16x per bowl.  Then I used the 1ml for the .66.  Then, I bought a 60ml syringe from a vet's office.  I used it to pull 60ml 2x, then 46ml.  But, as I said, neither way has ever produced exactly what I should be able to measure out.

  How do I fix this?  I know how to use a cylinder and read syringes.  I don't HAVE ANY idea what's wrong.  When I get stable enough and want to pull, I want to be sure I am doing it accurately. 

 

Thanks. 

[[ga...]]

I'm sorry you're having troubles with the liquid. I wish I could help, but I don't understand your method. I also don't understand why you think you are making  a mistake. Perhaps builder or bads or SG can help you with this. I'm sure you'll get it straightened out.

 

I do have one comment. If you are making a very dilute solution, tiny mistakes aren't going to matter much. Everybody makes tiny mistakes. No measurement is ever perfect. So it's important that you solution is very dilute.

 

Gard

[Guest [ba...]]

Okay.  Today is day 14  of my DLMT from Valium.  I haven't cut yet, just switched to 5mg pill and 1.66mg in liquid per dose. 

Since I have switched, I have NEVER been able to measure out the exact amount I'm supposed to have.  I use the same equipment and same syringes.  I'm afraid to make more then one day at a time, since I cannot seem to get 3 equal bowls (when measured out with syringe), but my three bowls look relatively equal.  And if they don't, I try to even them up.  How can I fix this?  I use a graduated cylinder, I have a 60ml syringe, a 10ml syringe, and a 1ml syringe.  I first just used the 10ml and the 1ml, buy that got tedious, as I had to pull liquid 16x per bowl.  Then I used the 1ml for the .66.  Then, I bought a 60ml syringe from a vet's office.  I used it to pull 60ml 2x, then 46ml.  But, as I said, neither way has ever produced exactly what I should be able to measure out.

  How do I fix this?  I know how to use a cylinder and read syringes.  I don't HAVE ANY idea what's wrong.  When I get stable enough and want to pull, I want to be sure I am doing it accurately. 

 

Thanks.

 

Maybe you can give a little more info.  How 'off' are you?  How are you determining that you're over/under?  I'm not questioning your skill, I'm just trying to better understand what's going on.  Also, is the 'bowl' being used as a cup?

 

fwiw - a 100 ml grad cylinder is probably only going to be accurate +/- 1-2 milliliters for most users.  For really critical volumes, labs use volumetric flasks.  The neck is much skinnier so the accuracy is much higher.  But grad cylinders are much more expensive than grad cylinders.  Same for syringes.  A 60 ml syringe is not going to be any more accurate than the grad cylinder, so +/- 1-2 mls.  Labs use graduated pipets to measure volumes.  Again, much more expensive.  Much as some folks really worry about being super careful/accurate, I don't think tapering should require that level of precision - especially if you're tapering a benzo with a moderate to long half-life.  Minor variations will average out.  What you're doing is probably fine, but I (we) are certainly happy to review what you do and what you see.

[[bu...]]

Okay.  Today is day 14  of my DLMT from Valium.  I haven't cut yet, just switched to 5mg pill and 1.66mg in liquid per dose. 

Since I have switched, I have NEVER been able to measure out the exact amount I'm supposed to have.  I use the same equipment and same syringes.  I'm afraid to make more then one day at a time, since I cannot seem to get 3 equal bowls (when measured out with syringe), but my three bowls look relatively equal.  And if they don't, I try to even them up.  How can I fix this?  I use a graduated cylinder, I have a 60ml syringe, a 10ml syringe, and a 1ml syringe.  I first just used the 10ml and the 1ml, buy that got tedious, as I had to pull liquid 16x per bowl.  Then I used the 1ml for the .66.  Then, I bought a 60ml syringe from a vet's office.  I used it to pull 60ml 2x, then 46ml.  But, as I said, neither way has ever produced exactly what I should be able to measure out.

  How do I fix this?  I know how to use a cylinder and read syringes.  I don't HAVE ANY idea what's wrong.  When I get stable enough and want to pull, I want to be sure I am doing it accurately. 

 

Thanks.

 

It really doesn't matter.  A consistent procedure is much more important than precision and accuracy.  One of the big advantages of dilute liquid is it reduces the significance of measurement error.  For example, if you are using a 1mg=10ml solution, and if you make a measurement error of .5ml, that's only .05mg difference.  The tablets you have been taking have a far greater tablet-to-tablet variation, typically +/- 5%.

 

And if you make one batch to last 10-14 days instead of a daily batch, that actually insures there will be minimum daily  variation, since that batch will be the same from start to finish.

 

Don't sweat the small stuff.