Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ca...]]

Lol... thanks for that jr... -no sugar coating and roses there...!!! 

 

Ok... i think i got it...

 

2V at 10% every 14 days

= a daily reduction of 0.14 ml

-1V = 10ml solution...

 

-12.5% =0.18ml reduction/day???

 

Or am i nuts, and Chessplayer is doing those promised calculus classes...?

(Thanks builder, i raided ur posts...)

 

If it is right, then i can even work out a % from a cut size...!!!

 

Crossing all my fingers...

 

Thanks everyone...

 

[[Ca...]]

I have a question for you more experienced micro taperers. I'm new here and posted a couple times but no one answered. Maybe I'm just a douche. 

 

Getting ready to taper of a 3 month use of .325 Klonopin. I know I'm ultra sensitive because I have had raging tinnitus from coming off a two week dose of 5mg Valium for 3 months now (this is why I was put on the Klonopin). However that's fixing the problem with the same problem. Seems like this method holds the most promise as I need to be very careful no matter how long it takes.

 

3 quick questions if some one can provide some recommendations:

 

1. Is a 1% taper (every day or every few days) a good/safe place to start?

2. Should I dilute or use a scale (I have a proper jewlers scale but not sure if the 1% is measurable) 

3. If the dilution method is recommended instead, I don't drink milk, what else can I use - I read about certain oils...

 

Thanks for your help!

[[...]]

I have a question for you more experienced micro taperers. I'm new here and posted a couple times but no one answered. Maybe I'm just a douche. 

 

Getting ready to taper of a 3 month use of .325 Klonopin. I know I'm ultra sensitive because I have had raging tinnitus from coming off a two week dose of 5mg Valium for 3 months now (this is why I was put on the Klonopin). However that's fixing the problem with the same problem. Seems like this method holds the most promise as I need to be very careful no matter how long it takes.

 

3 quick questions if some one can provide some recommendations:

 

1. Is a 1% taper (every day or every few days) a good/safe place to start?

2. Should I dilute or use a scale (I have a proper jewlers scale but not sure if the 1% is measurable) 

3. If the dilution method is recommended instead, I don't drink milk, what else can I use - I read about certain oils...

 

Thanks for your help!

 

1.  No, it is much too fast.  Think monthly: it would be 30% a month.  That will crush almost everyone.  If someone does not know their rate I usually suggest beginning with 8% a month and adjust from there.

 

2.  With K you can make a scale work, but liquid is the way to go.  Scales give up quite a bit of accuracy and IMO are more difficult and tedious.

 

3.  With K, you can use PG or alcohol.  Then there are the Ora Plus and compounded pharmacy choices that work for all benzos, but PG and alcohol are easy and cheap.  There is no prescription liquid K in the USA, although there is in the UK.

[[Ca...]]

Sorry Cal,

 

If i saw your posts i would have atleast said WELCOME...!

K isnt my med, i use Valium, So much better you get that answer from SG...

But i cant drink milk either, and have just started DLMT with water and a touch of vodka as the solvent... I find it easy and no fuss...

Cheers...

 

 

[[ga...]]

Hello, Cal. I agree with SG on all points. Some people like scales, but I found them to be too tedious. And I tried a fast taper rate at first and it set me back a year to recover. And it was a pretty awful year. Better to start slowly. You can always try inching up to a faster rate very carefully.

 

If you tell SG what size your tablets are, he can tell you how much 80 proof vodka you need to dissolve one. The idea is to dissolve the tablet first in a small amount of vodka and then add a lot of water to make a very dilute solution. Then you can make very small daily reductions very easily. Another advantage of a very dilute solution is that tiny mistakes aren't noticeable. And we all make tiny mistakes when we measure no matter what method we use. We're human and don't have fancy lab equipment.

 

I'm on L, so the measurements will be different, but here's an example. I empty my 5mg capsule of L into a glass jar and add 3ml of vodka. After a few minutes, I swish it around to make sure it is well dissolved. Then I add 97 ml of water. Now I have turned a 5mg capsule of L into 100ml of solution. Very dilute. I make tiny daily cuts, about 4/10ml. I tried 6/10ml and it was too much. Now I am holding and waiting for the symptoms to settle down so I can go back to my 4/10ml.

 

SG or builder or somebody else who does math and chemistry can help you work out a plan for exactly how to do it with your tablets. I think there are people who use tablets who mash them first and then swish them in vodka, but I'm not sure. I don't mash my capsule. I pour it out into the jar. I'm sure somebody who dissolves tablets can give advice about this. You can try asking on the liquid titration board, too. It's more active than this thread.

 

You can do this!

 

Gard

[[Ca...]]

Yes, my whole Valium tablets disolve with ease in minutes (10 min is recomended, i think...)

I use 10mg V in 20ml vodka plus 80ml water -lasts me 5 days... some of the tablet binders and crud dont dissolve, but thats fine with a little (probably unneccissary) shake each time...

 

[[ho...]]

Yes, my whole Valium tablets disolve with ease in minutes (10 min is recomended, i think...)

I use 10mg V in 20ml vodka plus 80ml water -lasts me 5 days... some of the tablet binders and crud dont dissolve, but thats fine with a little (probably unneccissary) shake each time...

can't fly did you notice uptick of symptoms when switching to liquid? Sorry if I asked you this, memory is bad. Thank you

[[Ca...]]

Yes, my whole Valium tablets disolve with ease in minutes (10 min is recomended, i think...)

I use 10mg V in 20ml vodka plus 80ml water -lasts me 5 days... some of the tablet binders and crud dont dissolve, but thats fine with a little (probably unneccissary) shake each time...

can't fly did you notice uptick of symptoms when switching to liquid? Sorry if I asked you this, memory is bad. Thank you

Hope never worry about memory with me...!!! -i define memory loss..!!

Its realy hard to say, either way cos i changed a few things and ate wrong (again)...

But i would have thought i should feel a bit better... yet i cant see any logical reason why the c/o to liquid would have an impact... though it seems a common opinion i have noticed... sorry i couldnt be more definitive at this point...

My gut feeling would be not to worry too much and maybe treat it like a cut, to ease your mind...??

Best wishes...

 

[[ho...]]

Yes, my whole Valium tablets disolve with ease in minutes (10 min is recomended, i think...)

I use 10mg V in 20ml vodka plus 80ml water -lasts me 5 days... some of the tablet binders and crud dont dissolve, but thats fine with a little (probably unneccissary) shake each time...

can't fly did you notice uptick of symptoms when switching to liquid? Sorry if I asked you this, memory is bad. Thank you

Hope never worry about memory with me...!!! -i define memory loss..!!

Its realy hard to say, either way cos i changed a few things and ate wrong (again)...

But i would have thought i should feel a bit better... yet i cant see any logical reason why the c/o to liquid would have an impact... though it seems a common opinion i have noticed... sorry i couldnt be more definitive at this point...

My gut feeling would be not to worry too much and maybe treat it like a cut, to ease your mind...??

Best wishes...

thank you can't fly

[[Ca...]]

Well, -I guess i will have to say yes to the uptick, but i dont understand why... (pls dont say placebo)...

I was wondering if 2ml of alcohol in each dose would have an effect on someone who doesnt tolerate alcohol well at all??

My mix is 10v in 20vodka plus 80ml water,

For 2 daily doses of 10ml each... so 2ml vodka...

 

Its day 4 now (holding after a recent healthy updose), and things started to creep up on me, lastnight i was wide awake, untill daylight... -took my morning dose and all hell broke loose... all the typical stuff, but probably the worst i had it.. shaking in bed all day...

bit better now, about to take my evening dose... will let u know...

Any thoughts??

Ty.

 

[[Ca...]]

Evening dose was better, stomach got crampy again... -I took this dose with a drink of water pre and post dose...

Hope i can sleep tonight...

Ty...

[[In...]]

Evening dose was better, stomach got crampy again... -I took this dose with a drink of water pre and post dose...

Hope i can sleep tonight...

Ty...

 

How are you feeling?  I switched from Ativan to valium back in November and I just switched from 4 doses to 3 (one is now liquified and split up between the other three doses) and I moved the times to 8hrs apart.  So, lots of changes all at once.  I am presently on day 2½. 

[[ho...]]

Well, -I guess i will have to say yes to the uptick, but i dont understand why... (pls dont say placebo)...

I was wondering if 2ml of alcohol in each dose would have an effect on someone who doesnt tolerate alcohol well at all??

My mix is 10v in 20vodka plus 80ml water,

For 2 daily doses of 10ml each... so 2ml vodka...

 

Its day 4 now (holding after a recent healthy updose), and things started to creep up on me, lastnight i was wide awake, untill daylight... -took my morning dose and all hell broke loose... all the typical stuff, but probably the worst i had it.. shaking in bed all day...

bit better now, about to take my evening dose... will let u know...

Any thoughts??

Ty.

hi can't fly I'm sorry you're feeling that way. I would never say placebo as I've seen it too many times. But I've heard you do stabilize. You may want to post on the titration board about it. To double check your numbers and such. Hope you feel better.

[[Ca...]]

I have a question for you more experienced micro taperers. I'm new here and posted a couple times but no one answered. Maybe I'm just a douche. 

 

Getting ready to taper of a 3 month use of .325 Klonopin. I know I'm ultra sensitive because I have had raging tinnitus from coming off a two week dose of 5mg Valium for 3 months now (this is why I was put on the Klonopin). However that's fixing the problem with the same problem. Seems like this method holds the most promise as I need to be very careful no matter how long it takes.

 

3 quick questions if some one can provide some recommendations:

 

1. Is a 1% taper (every day or every few days) a good/safe place to start?

2. Should I dilute or use a scale (I have a proper jewlers scale but not sure if the 1% is measurable) 

3. If the dilution method is recommended instead, I don't drink milk, what else can I use - I read about certain oils...

 

Thanks for your help!

 

1.  No, it is much too fast.  Think monthly: it would be 30% a month.  That will crush almost everyone.  If someone does not know their rate I usually suggest beginning with 8% a month and adjust from there.

 

2.  With K you can make a scale work, but liquid is the way to go.  Scales give up quite a bit of accuracy and IMO are more difficult and tedious.

 

3.  With K, you can use PG or alcohol.  Then there are the Ora Plus and compounded pharmacy choices that work for all benzos, but PG and alcohol are easy and cheap.  There is no prescription liquid K in the USA, although there is in the UK.

 

Thanks SG. I think was trying to say something like .001% similar to this thread here - do you think that's a pretty low/safe taper: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=132472.0

[[Me...]]

Hi Sharkey,

I'm new to this benzo taper stuff but have decided, like you, that micro tapers may be best to gradually give the brain time to readjust. Am I understanding that you were on Clonazepam, 2mg a day for about 7 years? If so, this gives me great hope because your taper was completed in less than a year. What success!  I was on Xanax for 30 years then 5 mos. ago put on Clonazepam 1mg two times a day and I am terrified to get started. I could use the input, encouragement, knowledge and tips from you and there's here. I am extremely grateful of all input!

[[ga...]]

Welcome, Mellow. When Sharkey became a new daddy, he cut way back on his time on Benzo Buddies. SG, builder, bads, and others (brain not coming up with all names) are our main math/chemistry helpers now. Some of us you will find also on Long Hold because we go back and for the between holds and MT. I am in a cog fog and not much help at the moment, I'm afraid, but wanted to say welcome.

 

Gard

[[Ca...]]

Thanks InnerS and HopeF,

 

Think its better today, -I just slept 8 hours!!!

My gut feeling (no pun intended) was the alcohol on an empty stomach, with no sleep, etc...

An easy fix, if so...

And I am extra sensitive to alcohol and all things digestive related...

-morning dose soon...

Thanks everyone...

 

[[ho...]]

Thanks InnerS and HopeF,

 

Think its better today, -I just slept 8 hours!!!

My gut feeling (no pun intended) was the alcohol on an empty stomach, with no sleep, etc...

An easy fix, if so...

And I am extra sensitive to alcohol and all things digestive related...

-morning dose soon...

Thanks everyone...

awesome can't fly! Glad you slept!

[[...]]

I'm gald you got some sleep too can't fly.

 

For those who don't like milk and are worried about or can't handle the alcohol there are a lot of milk substitutes out there now adays. I use cashew milk and it is even higher in fat than full fat cows milk. It's also only 25 cal for a cup. My clonazepam dissolves wonderfully in it.

 

Hey Cal, I'm doing a sxs based taper. I've also been considering dropping the dose I'm using so I can taper more often. I really like the thread you posted. Right now I'm tapering occasionally at .0019mg. I wait until the end of the day to decide if I will cut again. I use Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/ to help me decide if I can continue to taper. My husband and I have decided that if I hit a 7 on the w/d scale I will hold until I'm back to baseline which is usually a 5 for me.

 

Hope everyone is finding some peace.

 

Hugs and healing

[[ho...]]

I'm gald you got some sleep too can't fly.

 

For those who don't like milk and are worried about or can't handle the alcohol there are a lot of milk substitutes out there now adays. I use cashew milk and it is even higher in fat than full fat cows milk. It's also only 25 cal for a cup. My clonazepam dissolves wonderfully in it.

 

Hey Cal, I'm doing a sxs based taper. I've also been considering dropping the dose I'm using so I can taper more often. I really like the thread you posted. Right now I'm tapering occasionally at .0019mg. I wait until the end of the day to decide if I will cut again. I use Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/ to help me decide if I can continue to taper. My husband and I have decided that if I hit a 7 on the w/d scale I will hold until I'm back to baseline which is usually a 5 for me.

 

Hope everyone is finding some peace.

 

Hugs and healing

hi Tntd great link for the symptoms list. I know you told me this before but forgot, you use silk cashew milk brand? Did you notice an uptick of symptoms when you started the milk? Sorry if I asked you this before but memory gone. I'm going to be going very slow as well. I'm so glad it's working for you. How long have you been doing milk? Thanks for any insight.  nicole

[[Ca...]]

Thanks Tntd, and everyone,

 

Morning dose much better than yesterday, still some cramping above whats normal, but i just had another 4hours sleep, and it only woke me a few times...

 

Still lots of options, so no stress...

 

Have a great day everyone...

 

Ps Hopefreegirl, -your getting close on my nic.. -its actually a question too...

 

T.

 

[[ho...]]

Thanks Tntd, and everyone,

 

Morning dose much better than yesterday, still some cramping above whats normal, but i just had another 4hours sleep, and it only woke me a few times...

 

Still lots of options, so no stress...

 

Have a great day everyone...

 

Ps Hopefreegirl, -your getting close on my nic.. -its actually a question too...

 

T.

[[...]]

Hi hope,

 

I completely understand the cog fog. I have it too and I ask a lot of questions over and over because I don't remember the answers either 

 

Yep, I use Silk Cashew milk.  I was lucky and din't have any change to my sxs when I switched to milk. I know some people don't do well on a liquid but the only thing you can do is try.

 

I've started tapering again. I'm using a sxs based taper this time. I'm hoping it works the way I'm thinking it will. I'm still nervous though as every path I've tried has been rough. I really like taper that Cal posted. If I wasn't already doing this I think I would try that. I have actually considered using that taper schedule with the sxs based taper. I'll see how what I'm doing works first. I'm tapering .0019mg a day so it's still really slow.

 

Hugs and healing   

[[ho...]]

Hi hope,

 

I completely understand the cog fog. I have it too and I ask a lot of questions over and over because I don't remember the answers either 

 

Yep, I use Silk Cashew milk.  I was lucky and din't have any change to my sxs when I switched to milk. I know some people don't do well on a liquid but the only thing you can do is try.

 

I've started tapering again. I'm using a sxs based taper this time. I'm hoping it works the way I'm thinking it will. I'm still nervous though as every path I've tried has been rough. I really like taper that Cal posted. If I wasn't already doing this I think I would try that. I have actually considered using that taper schedule with the sxs based taper. I'll see how what I'm doing works first. I'm tapering .0019mg a day so it's still really slow.

 

Hugs and healing   

sounds like you have a good plan. Yes I'm going to go super slow as well after all my mistakes. I'll look into the cashew milk, it sounds yummy and good for us. Thank you

[[Ul...]]

Hi Sharkey,

I'm new to this benzo taper stuff but have decided, like you, that micro tapers may be best to gradually give the brain time to readjust. Am I understanding that you were on Clonazepam, 2mg a day for about 7 years? If so, this gives me great hope because your taper was completed in less than a year. What success!  I was on Xanax for 30 years then 5 mos. ago put on Clonazepam 1mg two times a day and I am terrified to get started. I could use the input, encouragement, knowledge and tips from you and there's here. I am extremely grateful of all input!

 

Hi Mellow! Knock it out of the park. You can do it!! Great people here to help. Actually, I didn't realize that Sharkey was ever on that big of a dose and for that long. I connect with him via phone on occasion, so I'll have to ask. Can't believe I don't know that. He's a great guy. I was thinking he was only on the K for a year or so. My brain probably lost that info the day I got it!

 

Hang tight!

 

Jeff