Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ho...]]

  i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

 

Just FYI, there are many other chemicals in face creams.

yes i know as ive tried about 50 and most have pg in them. only thing i can use on my face now is coconut oil. but i used eye drops the other day and had optical migraine which ive had before from fragrances or chemicals and ingredients are pg. and have the gene mutations. i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

 

 

hi nicole,

 

i get those kinds of headaches from fragrances and chemcials too. i had to look for skin care items that are all fragrance and chemical free. i've done over 20 years of research as i am also an esthetician and have about ten really wonderful and very effective skin care lines that i use -- if you're ever interested i can share with you.

 

i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

 

did you have specific blood work done to find out about your deficiency and that you do not methylate b vitamins? i am interested in knowing which specific blood tests to do next so i will have to go over it with my doctor. thanks for letting me know? - Pretty

I've tried a ton of fragrance, no parapen, hypo allergic skin creams. I have always taken care of my skin, and just a few years back started noticing the burning reaction. The last skin cream kit I paid $75 for. Hypo allergenic no fragrance. However does have pg. I got my Mthfr (that's the abbreviation) genes tested 677 and 1298. I do not methylate b vitamins and folate. I got my test done by my gp recommended by a functional doctor because she noticed I was sensitive to medications. You can get the 23andme testing done which does the whole range of snps and genes. I just had these two particular ones done. I'm compound heterogeneous for both. Sure I'd love to hear what skin lines. Thank you pretty

[[ho...]]

I understand fear of benzo damage (I definitely had that) and i kinda understand fear of tapering.  Tapering is clearly at best, an unpleasant experience for most of us.  But it almost certainly will NOT cause any irreversible damage.

 

But what I don't get is fear of a method.  You learn what the alternative are and you pick one that seems to work best for you.  If it is "unsuccessful", you back up and go back to the beginning.  There has been no permanent damage, so other than perhaps some discomfort, (and we all already expect that) its nothing gained but nothing lost.

 

To me, anytime I learned about a different taper protocol, I saw an opportunity, not a threat.  And for the record, I tried several different protocol that didn't work.  But each time, I just when back to the starting point.  Yeah, each failure brought a period of significant sxs, but if you don't want to try to taper, then by default, you are choosing to stay on benzos.  Not a good choice, IMO.

fear of a method has to do with other health issues. If you don't know about the gene mutations I can't explain it to you. And my other options are going to be next to impossible considering the life situation I'm in. But I'm not going to get into my whole life story here. I'll figure something out.

[[ho...]]

What I don't understand how someone cannot understand fear in the taper /withdrawal process. It's called damage to the amygdala. Irrational fears, phobias, anxiety, obsessive thoughts, etc etc are all part of this nightmare. If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain. I'm scared of music for Christs sake. I've dated musicians my whole life and ended up marrying one. My father is a musician and his whole family. Music has always been a huge part of my life. I can't stand to listen to it. It scares the hell out me. Is that rational? Of course not. But I've damaged the fear center of my brain. So fear kinda comes with this. Besides outside factors in people's lives that contribute to the problems, and other health issues. This isn't one size fits all treatment as we all know. And for some more difficult than others.

[[ga...]]

I understand fear of benzo damage (I definitely had that) and i kinda understand fear of tapering.  Tapering is clearly at best, an unpleasant experience for most of us.  But it almost certainly will NOT cause any irreversible damage.

 

But what I don't get is fear of a method.  You learn what the alternative are and you pick one that seems to work best for you.  If it is "unsuccessful", you back up and go back to the beginning.  There has been no permanent damage, so other than perhaps some discomfort, (and we all already expect that) its nothing gained but nothing lost.

 

To me, anytime I learned about a different taper protocol, I saw an opportunity, not a threat.  And for the record, I tried several different protocol that didn't work.  But each time, I just when back to the starting point.  Yeah, each failure brought a period of significant sxs, but if you don't want to try to taper, then by default, you are choosing to stay on benzos.  Not a good choice, IMO.

 

Yes, we must move forward and your words make perfect logical sense. But fear isn't always logical and can be transferred from one situation to another in illogical ways that are beyond our control, especially in w/d, but also as a result of how our brains are wired from our earliest years or from our life experiences. One perfectly natural reaction to overwhelming fear is freezing. We all know the fight/flight reaction to threat, but the 3rd reaction of the nervous system to threat can be to freeze. I know what that feels like. I need emotional support and validation and encouragement when I get into a frozen state. Logic isn't enough.

 

Nevertheless, we can do this. We can ask questions, take baby steps, do whatever is necessary to get off of this junk, each in our own way. We will do this!

 

Gard

[[ho...]]

  i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

Just FYI, there are many other chemicals in face creams.

yes i know as ive tried about 50 and most have pg in them. only thing i can use on my face now is coconut oil. but i used eye drops the other day and had optical migraine which ive had before from fragrances or chemicals and ingredients are pg. and have the gene mutations. i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

 

I think you said you have a bottle of PG.  Why not put a little in water and drink it or put a little on your skin to see if you react.  Then you'll know for sure if it is the PG you are allergic to.

thank you sg.

[[ga...]]

What I don't understand how someone cannot understand fear in the taper /withdrawal process. It's called damage to the amygdala. Irrational fears, phobias, anxiety, obsessive thoughts, etc etc are all part of this nightmare. If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain. I'm scared of music Christs sake. I've dated musicians my whole life and ended up marrying one. My father is a musician and his whole family. Music has always been a huge part of my life. I can't stand to listen to it. It scares the hell out me. Is that rational? Of course not. But I've damaged the fear center of my brain. So fear kinda comes with this. Besides outside factors in people's lives that contribute to the problems, and other health issues. This isn't one size fits all treatment as we all know. And for some more difficult than others.

 

OMG, Nicole, I  could have written these words! My therapist encouraged me to listen to music to calm down. I explained to her that, having a musical background and a strong emotional reaction to music, it is just too overwhelming to my nervous system, and I can't listen to music any more. It's the saddest thing!  :'(

 

Gard

 

P.S. But we will get it back!

[[bu...]]

  If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain.

 

I have "... been through withdrawal of this poison..."

[[ho...]]

I understand fear of benzo damage (I definitely had that) and i kinda understand fear of tapering.  Tapering is clearly at best, an unpleasant experience for most of us.  But it almost certainly will NOT cause any irreversible damage.

 

But what I don't get is fear of a method.  You learn what the alternative are and you pick one that seems to work best for you.  If it is "unsuccessful", you back up and go back to the beginning.  There has been no permanent damage, so other than perhaps some discomfort, (and we all already expect that) its nothing gained but nothing lost.

 

To me, anytime I learned about a different taper protocol, I saw an opportunity, not a threat.  And for the record, I tried several different protocol that didn't work.  But each time, I just when back to the starting point.  Yeah, each failure brought a period of significant sxs, but if you don't want to try to taper, then by default, you are choosing to stay on benzos.  Not a good choice, IMO.

 

Yes, we must move forward and your words make perfect logical sense. But fear isn't always logical and can be transferred from one situation to another in illogical ways that are beyond our control, especially in w/d, but also as a result of how our brains are wired from our earliest years or from our life experiences. One perfectly natural reaction to overwhelming fear is freezing. We all know the fight/flight reaction to threat, but the 3rd reaction of the nervous system to threat can be to freeze. I know what that feels like. I need emotional support and validation and encouragement when I get into a frozen state. Logic isn't enough.

 

Nevertheless, we can do this. We can ask questions, take baby steps, do whatever is necessary to get off of this junk, each in our own way. We will do this!

 

Gard

I agree gard. As you can see in my post and the damage we have done to our amygdalas, fear center, logic and rational is out the window. Thanks for understanding gard! 

[[ga...]]

  If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain.

 

I have "... been through withdrawal of this poison..."

 

Hey, builder and Nicole, I think you are just very different people with very different life experiences so have reacted differently to this hellish journey. It's OK. I appreciate the contributions both of you have made to this forum.

 

Gard

 

 

 

[[ho...]]

  If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain.

 

I have "... been through withdrawal of this poison..."

I know you have thats why I don't see how you can't see why fear runs rampant. Irrational, with validity, or not. It's part of the damage we have done to our brains. Uncontrollable, irrational, bizarre, unfortunate.

[[bu...]]

As i said above, I do understand fear.

 

What I have hard time grasping is why folks cannot see the hope of recovery.

[[ho...]]

What I don't understand how someone cannot understand fear in the taper /withdrawal process. It's called damage to the amygdala. Irrational fears, phobias, anxiety, obsessive thoughts, etc etc are all part of this nightmare. If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain. I'm scared of music Christs sake. I've dated musicians my whole life and ended up marrying one. My father is a musician and his whole family. Music has always been a huge part of my life. I can't stand to listen to it. It scares the hell out me. Is that rational? Of course not. But I've damaged the fear center of my brain. So fear kinda comes with this. Besides outside factors in people's lives that contribute to the problems, and other health issues. This isn't one size fits all treatment as we all know. And for some more difficult than others.

 

OMG, Nicole, I  could have written these words! My therapist encouraged me to listen to music to calm down. I explained to her that, having a musical background and a strong emotional reaction to music, it is just too overwhelming to my nervous system, and I can't listen to music any more. It's the saddest thing!  :'(

 

Gard

 

P.S. But we will get it back!

yes we will gard! I have to hide in the bedroom when my husband  plays guitar because of the feedback from the amp. It's just so bizarre. I forced myself to listen to two songs the other night my adrenaline went through the roof but I did it. I miss music so much. You're right we will be able to blast away our songs again. thanks gard. Nicole

[[ga...]]

OK, to get philosophical here, can't fear and hope coexist?

 

Oh, never mind, my benzo brain isn't up to philosophy!

 

Gard

[[ho...]]

As i said above, I do understand fear.

 

What I have hard time grasping is why folks cannot see the hope of recovery.

builder I have hope, clinging onto to it with my fingernails. If I didn't, I wouldnt be here right now trust me.

[[ho...]]

OK, to get philosophical here, can't fear and hope coexist?

 

Oh, never mind, my benzo brain isn't up to philosophy!

 

Gard

absolutely as I told builder, I would not be here. Without hope, you have nothing. If I didn't have hope to get out of this situation I would give up. So yes they can. Sometimes hard to see the light but it's there dimly.

[[Ul...]]

Hey Jeff,

 

Thanks, I know I'll find my path eventually. I have no idea how long it will take but by doing a sxs based taper I'm hoping that I'll stay at least somewhat functional. In the long run it doesn't matter how long it takes all that matters it getting off of it. Out of curiosity how long has it take you to get from 6mg to 1mg? I'm sorry going slowly didn't help reduce your sxs. I've seen some who say it does and some who say it doesn't. It would be interesting, just cause I like science and math, to know what the percentage is in both directions.

 

Hugs and healing to you 

 

Well, like a fool, I tried a dry cut taper when I began all of this. I had no clue about how bad benzos were, how addictive, I didn't know about micro tapering, etc. I literally tried to cut the 1mg tablets into quarters and reduce from there. Learned real quickly that that ain't happenin'!! I was a complete mess and totally freaked out and ready to run for the hills (little did I know how super sensitive I was to everything). I then learned about BB's and took some really small steps toward the liquid micro taper thing. I've been doing the liquid micro taper for about 1 yr and 7 months. I probably spent a couple months before that fighting with the dry cuts on my own. I also had several long holds over the past year+ due to another surgery on my back, recovery, hurricane evacuation, and now I have holds simply because I'm too sensitive to cut very often or very much. I'm no speed demon, but I've learned to let go and just go with the flow. I don't set taper goals and I don't look back to see how much I cut in a given month, or whatever. So it is. On to the next day!!

 

Hugs to ya, young lady

 

Jeff

hi Jeff I'm so sorry if I've asked you this before because I've asked a lot!  what liquid are you using to taper? Thank you Nicole

 

Hey Nicole! Sorry to be late in responding. Having a rough patch. Anyway, I've been using 100 proof vodka to taper since the very get-go. I was freaked about the alcohol too (for many reasons), but I just went with it and made it happen. Once I made up my mind I didn't look back or read very much here on the thread. I just went ahead and got started and then later I started conversing with people here. Been a HUGE help! We're extremely blessed and fortunate to have Builder and SG in our lives. Pray that they never leave!!!

 

You'll nail this thing!

 

Hugs to you and the rest of the gang.

 

Jeff

[[ho...]]

Hey Jeff,

 

Thanks, I know I'll find my path eventually. I have no idea how long it will take but by doing a sxs based taper I'm hoping that I'll stay at least somewhat functional. In the long run it doesn't matter how long it takes all that matters it getting off of it. Out of curiosity how long has it take you to get from 6mg to 1mg? I'm sorry going slowly didn't help reduce your sxs. I've seen some who say it does and some who say it doesn't. It would be interesting, just cause I like science and math, to know what the percentage is in both directions.

 

Hugs and healing to you 

 

Well, like a fool, I tried a dry cut taper when I began all of this. I had no clue about how bad benzos were, how addictive, I didn't know about micro tapering, etc. I literally tried to cut the 1mg tablets into quarters and reduce from there. Learned real quickly that that ain't happenin'!! I was a complete mess and totally freaked out and ready to run for the hills (little did I know how super sensitive I was to everything). I then learned about BB's and took some really small steps toward the liquid micro taper thing. I've been doing the liquid micro taper for about 1 yr and 7 months. I probably spent a couple months before that fighting with the dry cuts on my own. I also had several long holds over the past year+ due to another surgery on my back, recovery, hurricane evacuation, and now I have holds simply because I'm too sensitive to cut very often or very much. I'm no speed demon, but I've learned to let go and just go with the flow. I don't set taper goals and I don't look back to see how much I cut in a given month, or whatever. So it is. On to the next day!!

 

Hugs to ya, young lady

 

Jeff

hi Jeff I'm so sorry if I've asked you this before because I've asked a lot!  what liquid are you using to taper? Thank you Nicole

 

Hey Nicole! Sorry to be late in responding. Having a rough patch. Anyway, I've been using 100 proof vodka to taper since the very get-go. I was freaked about the alcohol too (for many reasons), but I just went with it and made it happen. Once I made up my mind I didn't look back or read very much here on the thread. I just went ahead and got started and then later I started conversing with people here. Been a HUGE help! We're extremely blessed and fortunate to have Builder and SG in our lives. Pray that they never leave!!!

 

You'll nail this thing!

 

Hugs to you and the rest of the gang.

 

Jeff

awesome Jeff, glad you're making progress!   Nicole

[[bu...]]

As i said above, I do understand fear.

 

What I have hard time grasping is why folks cannot see the hope of recovery.

builder I have hope, clinging onto to it with my fingernails. If I didn't, I wouldnt be here right now trust me.

 

I DO understand that you are obviously deeply troubled, and all of this is really difficult. 

 

And I really do want to help.  Although it seems that much  of my advice doesn't seem to ease your fears right now, I will always try to help. 

[[bu...]]

BTW, while my recent post may appear to argumentative, they definitely are not.  What I'm trying to do is impart a little positivity. I know that a positive outlook might be difficult right now, but trust me, it will dramatically improve your chances of a successful taper. 

[[Ul...]]

  If somebody has been through withdrawal of this poison, then they would understand the amygdala is damaged and causes people to obsessively ask questions, to fear,  to be anxious,  to have "benzo lies"  told to them in their brain.

 

I have "... been through withdrawal of this poison..."

 

Hey, builder and Nicole, I think you are just very different people with very different life experiences so have reacted differently to this hellish journey. It's OK. I appreciate the contributions both of you have made to this forum.

 

Gard

 

Agreed

 

[[ho...]]

Hey Jeff,

 

Thanks, I know I'll find my path eventually. I have no idea how long it will take but by doing a sxs based taper I'm hoping that I'll stay at least somewhat functional. In the long run it doesn't matter how long it takes all that matters it getting off of it. Out of curiosity how long has it take you to get from 6mg to 1mg? I'm sorry going slowly didn't help reduce your sxs. I've seen some who say it does and some who say it doesn't. It would be interesting, just cause I like science and math, to know what the percentage is in both directions.

 

Hugs and healing to you 

 

Well, like a fool, I tried a dry cut taper when I began all of this. I had no clue about how bad benzos were, how addictive, I didn't know about micro tapering, etc. I literally tried to cut the 1mg tablets into quarters and reduce from there. Learned real quickly that that ain't happenin'!! I was a complete mess and totally freaked out and ready to run for the hills (little did I know how super sensitive I was to everything). I then learned about BB's and took some really small steps toward the liquid micro taper thing. I've been doing the liquid micro taper for about 1 yr and 7 months. I probably spent a couple months before that fighting with the dry cuts on my own. I also had several long holds over the past year+ due to another surgery on my back, recovery, hurricane evacuation, and now I have holds simply because I'm too sensitive to cut very often or very much. I'm no speed demon, but I've learned to let go and just go with the flow. I don't set taper goals and I don't look back to see how much I cut in a given month, or whatever. So it is. On to the next day!!

 

Hugs to ya, young lady

 

Jeff

hi Jeff I'm so sorry if I've asked you this before because I've asked a lot!  what liquid are you using to taper? Thank you Nicole

 

Hey Nicole! Sorry to be late in responding. Having a rough patch. Anyway, I've been using 100 proof vodka to taper since the very get-go. I was freaked about the alcohol too (for many reasons), but I just went with it and made it happen. Once I made up my mind I didn't look back or read very much here on the thread. I just went ahead and got started and then later I started conversing with people here. Been a HUGE help! We're extremely blessed and fortunate to have Builder and SG in our lives. Pray that they never leave!!!

 

You'll nail this thing!

 

Hugs to you and the rest of the gang.

 

Jeff

hi Jeff I read your signature. I see you were on a high dose of k like I was. Thanks for giving me hope.   nicole

[[ho...]]

As i said above, I do understand fear.

 

What I have hard time grasping is why folks cannot see the hope of recovery.

builder I have hope, clinging onto to it with my fingernails. If I didn't, I wouldnt be here right now trust me.

 

I DO understand that you are obviously deeply troubled, and all of this is really difficult. 

 

And I really do want to help.  Although it seems that much  of my advice doesn't seem to ease your fears right now, I will always try to help.

builder your advice has eased my fears many times. And I do greatly appreciate it. And thank you for being here for all of us. Nicole

[[ga...]]

As i said above, I do understand fear.

 

What I have hard time grasping is why folks cannot see the hope of recovery.

builder I have hope, clinging onto to it with my fingernails. If I didn't, I wouldnt be here right now trust me.

 

I DO understand that you are obviously deeply troubled, and all of this is really difficult. 

 

And I really do want to help.  Although it seems that much  of my advice doesn't seem to ease your fears right now, I will always try to help.

 

(Yikes , are we allowed to hug builder? Oh well, too late! )

[[ho...]]

BTW, while my recent post may appear to argumentative, they definitely are not.  What I'm trying to do is impart a little positivity. I know that a positive outlook might be difficult right now, but trust me, it will dramatically improve your chances of a successful taper. 

I understand you are trying to give us positivity. And I realize the outlook on this plays a big part in how it unfolds. I appreciate your positive words more than you know...

[[ho...]]

As i said above, I do understand fear.

 

What I have hard time grasping is why folks cannot see the hope of recovery.

builder I have hope, clinging onto to it with my fingernails. If I didn't, I wouldnt be here right now trust me.

 

I DO understand that you are obviously deeply troubled, and all of this is really difficult. 

 

And I really do want to help.  Although it seems that much  of my advice doesn't seem to ease your fears right now, I will always try to help.

 

(Yikes , are we allowed to hug builder? Oh well, too late! )