Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ho...]]

  builder I've seen you say that before that we would never actually take 1 ml of alcohol. Why is that when we have to usually use more than 1 ml of the alcohol to dissolve? Is it because of the proof or something? Thank you

 

 

Ok, lets work it out.  Assume someone is on 10mg/day of Valium, and wants to taper 5% every  10 days:

 

Dissolve 50mg tablets in 100ml 80 proof (40% alcohol) vodka and add 900ml water.

 

Day 1 take 9mg tablets, and 1mg (10 ml) liquid (This is the max liquid you will ever have to take!)

Day 2 take 9m tablets and .95mg (9.95ml) liquid

day 3 take 9mg tablets and .90mg (9.9ml) liquid.

etc.

 

So you start with 10ml of liquid, that contains 2ml of vodka, or .8ml alcohol.  And each day, the amount of alcohol gets smaller.

 

And since the 2ml vodka is the max you will take, and it tapers down each day, the average daily  amount would be 1ml vodka, or .4ml alcohol.

 

BTW, you really only need 1ml vodka to 1mg V.  Several of us just recommend the 2ml per mg to be on the safe side of solubility.  So if you did the 1ml per mg formula, the max alcohol would only be .4ml alcohol.

 

BTW, I am a recovering alcoholic, 29 years sober.  If I had not had a scrip for liquid V, I definitely would have done the vodka method. 1ml of vodka does not scare me in the least.  I'm sure I get that much using mouthwash.

ok I'm going to reread this multiple times as brain not working.  I had planned on going to some liquid some dry. Also I asked on another members post, they said milk is a suspension. You said no it's a solution. I thought milk was a suspension as well as it doesn't completely dissolve the pills. Other member said its 90% water??? Thank you

[[St...]]

I love what you said about the receptors bad, that makes so much sense to me... now if I can just remember it...lol!!!

 

[[bu...]]

  builder I've seen you say that before that we would never actually take 1 ml of alcohol. Why is that when we have to usually use more than 1 ml of the alcohol to dissolve? Is it because of the proof or something? Thank you

 

 

Ok, lets work it out.  Assume someone is on 10mg/day of Valium, and wants to taper 5% every  10 days:

 

Dissolve 50mg tablets in 100ml 80 proof (40% alcohol) vodka and add 900ml water.

 

Day 1 take 9mg tablets, and 1mg (10 ml) liquid (This is the max liquid you will ever have to take!)

Day 2 take 9m tablets and .95mg (9.95ml) liquid

day 3 take 9mg tablets and .90mg (9.9ml) liquid.

etc.

 

So you start with 10ml of liquid, that contains 2ml of vodka, or .8ml alcohol.  And each day, the amount of alcohol gets smaller.

 

And since the 2ml vodka is the max you will take, and it tapers down each day, the average daily  amount would be 1ml vodka, or .4ml alcohol.

 

BTW, you really only need 1ml vodka to 1mg V.  Several of us just recommend the 2ml per mg to be on the safe side of solubility.  So if you did the 1ml per mg formula, the max alcohol would only be .4ml alcohol.

 

BTW, I am a recovering alcoholic, 29 years sober.  If I had not had a scrip for liquid V, I definitely would have done the vodka method. 1ml of vodka does not scare me in the least.  I'm sure I get that much using mouthwash.

ok I'm going to reread this multiple times as brain not working.  I had planned on going to some liquid some dry. Also I asked on another members post, they said milk is a suspension. You said no it's a solution. I thought milk was a suspension as well as it doesn't completely dissolve the pills. Other member said its 90% water??? Thank you

 

 

(Most) benzos are lipid (fat) soluble.  That means th colloidal solution.ey dissolve in fats, and create a true, evenly dispersed solution.  From a physical chemistry standpoint, milk is a colloidal solution.

 

Yes, milk is about 90% water.  But you're dissolving the benzo in the fat, not the water.  If you do a 1ml vodka/90ml water solution that's also a 90% water (actually about 95%, because the vodka is about half water to begin with).  but you can certainly use 1 part vodka and 9 parts water to make a true benzo solution.

 

And why is everyone suddenly obsessed with the physical chemistry of liquid benzos.  It is a well-established fact that you can use milk, alcoholic liquors, and propylene glycol to convert your tablets into liquid form. It all works folks.  Choose the method you like and quit worrying about it.

[[Re...]]

Good evening.  I am ready to switch to a liquid micro-taper as I finish this journey. I am currently at .06 mg of klonopin. I split this dose twice a day (.03mg in the morning and .03 mg in the evening). My scale is flaking on me and won't read this low of a dose which is why I want switch to liquid. 

I spoke with Lynn33 and hopefreegirl in the easy taper support group and they gave me some tips.  Lynn33 suggested I come here and talk to builder to see if I have the right info.

 

From my understanding I will take 1mg of klonopin and dissolve it in 2 ml of vodka and then add it to 98 ml water.  I then will measure 3ml for my morning dose and then 3 ml for my evening dose for a total of 6 ml  a day. This will equal my current dose of .06 mg of dry cut klonopin.

 

Is this correct?  I want to make sure I am doing this right.  Thank you in advance!! 

 

[[bu...]]

Good evening.  I am ready to switch to a liquid micro-taper as I finish this journey. I am currently at .06 mg of klonopin. I split this dose twice a day (.03mg in the morning and .03 mg in the evening). My scale is flaking on me and won't read this low of a dose which is why I want switch to liquid. 

I spoke with Lynn33 and hopefreegirl in the easy taper support group and they gave me some tips.  Lynn33 suggested I come here and talk to builder to see if I have the right info.

 

From my understanding I will take 1mg of klonopin and dissolve it in 2 ml of vodka and then add it to 98 ml water.  I then will measure 3ml for my morning dose and then 3 ml for my evening dose for a total of 6 ml  a day. This will equal my current dose of .06 mg of dry cut klonopin.

 

Is this correct?  I want to make sure I am doing this right.  Thank you in advance!! 

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

[[Re...]]

Awesome! Thanks so much builder.  I am almost there   Good luck and peace to the rest of you!

[[ho...]]

  builder I've seen you say that before that we would never actually take 1 ml of alcohol. Why is that when we have to usually use more than 1 ml of the alcohol to dissolve? Is it because of the proof or something? Thank you

 

 

Ok, lets work it out.  Assume someone is on 10mg/day of Valium, and wants to taper 5% every  10 days:

 

Dissolve 50mg tablets in 100ml 80 proof (40% alcohol) vodka and add 900ml water.

 

Day 1 take 9mg tablets, and 1mg (10 ml) liquid (This is the max liquid you will ever have to take!)

Day 2 take 9m tablets and .95mg (9.95ml) liquid

day 3 take 9mg tablets and .90mg (9.9ml) liquid.

etc.

 

So you start with 10ml of liquid, that contains 2ml of vodka, or .8ml alcohol.  And each day, the amount of alcohol gets smaller.

 

And since the 2ml vodka is the max you will take, and it tapers down each day, the average daily  amount would be 1ml vodka, or .4ml alcohol.

 

BTW, you really only need 1ml vodka to 1mg V.  Several of us just recommend the 2ml per mg to be on the safe side of solubility.  So if you did the 1ml per mg formula, the max alcohol would only be .4ml alcohol.

 

BTW, I am a recovering alcoholic, 29 years sober.  If I had not had a scrip for liquid V, I definitely would have done the vodka method. 1ml of vodka does not scare me in the least.  I'm sure I get that much using mouthwash.

ok I'm going to reread this multiple times as brain not working.  I had planned on going to some liquid some dry. Also I asked on another members post, they said milk is a suspension. You said no it's a solution. I thought milk was a suspension as well as it doesn't completely dissolve the pills. Other member said its 90% water??? Thank you

 

 

(Most) benzos are lipid (fat) soluble.  That means th colloidal solution.ey dissolve in fats, and create a true, evenly dispersed solution.  From a physical chemistry standpoint, milk is a colloidal solution.

 

Yes, milk is about 90% water.  But you're dissolving the benzo in the fat, not the water.  If you do a 1ml vodka/90ml water solution that's also a 90% water (actually about 95%, because the vodka is about half water to begin with).  but you can certainly use 1 part vodka and 9 parts water to make a true benzo solution.

 

And why is everyone suddenly obsessed with the physical chemistry of liquid benzos.  It is a well-established fact that you can use milk, alcoholic liquors, and propylene glycol to convert your tablets into liquid form. It all works folks.  Choose the method you like and quit worrying about it.

I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

[[ga...]]

 

 

And why is everyone suddenly obsessed with the physical chemistry of liquid benzos.  It is a well-established fact that you can use milk, alcoholic liquors, and propylene glycol to convert your tablets into liquid form. It all works folks. Choose the method you like and quit worrying about it.

 

:2funny:   (Sorry, couldn't resist. Zero percent chance I am going to quit worrying during this!)

[[ga...]]

 

I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

Perhaps you should use PG. No alcohol. No milk. It is what pharmaceutical companies use to make their benzos into liquids so you know it works. You can buy it on amazon. When I was on prescription liquid Xanax it was PG, water, and a salt. I think the salt was a preservative which you don't need because you're not going to store it for months. So you'd be doing exactly what the pharmaceuticals do to make their solutions. Dissolve the benzo in the PG and add water. I'm sure one of the chemistry gurus can give you the proportions for that. Then you won't have to worry about it any more.

 

You'll get through this. Many, many of us have been in the same boat you're in. Once we have gotten started, we've been OK. Not without bumps and bruises (expected in benzo w/d), but OK.

 

Gard

[[ho...]]

 

I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

Perhaps you should use PG. No alcohol. No milk. It is what pharmaceutical companies use to make their benzos into liquids so you know it works. You can buy it on amazon. When I was on prescription liquid Xanax it was PG, water, and a salt. I think the salt was a preservative which you don't need because you're not going to store it for months. So you'd be doing exactly what the pharmaceuticals do to make their solutions. Dissolve the benzo in the PG and add water. I'm sure one of the chemistry gurus can give you the proportions for that. Then you won't have to worry about it any more.

 

You'll get through this. Many, many of us have been in the same boat you're in. Once we have gotten started, we've been OK. Not without bumps and bruises (expected in benzo w/d), but OK.

 

Gard

hey gard thanks for responding. I wrote you a long rambling post earlier lol. You must've missed it. I think I'm allergic to pg. It's explained in the other post. I'm driving myself nuts. I'll just have to research some more. But thanks for your encouraging post. I actually have a bottle of pg I bought. But have to look up some things as explained in other post. Too exhausted to research anymore. I'm glad you have a taper plan that you're happy with   Nicole

[[ho...]]

 

 

And why is everyone suddenly obsessed with the physical chemistry of liquid benzos.  It is a well-established fact that you can use milk, alcoholic liquors, and propylene glycol to convert your tablets into liquid form. It all works folks. Choose the method you like and quit worrying about it.

 

:2funny:   (Sorry, couldn't resist. Zero percent chance I am going to quit worrying during this!)

lol  me either! 

[[ga...]]

 

I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

Perhaps you should use PG. No alcohol. No milk. It is what pharmaceutical companies use to make their benzos into liquids so you know it works. You can buy it on amazon. When I was on prescription liquid Xanax it was PG, water, and a salt. I think the salt was a preservative which you don't need because you're not going to store it for months. So you'd be doing exactly what the pharmaceuticals do to make their solutions. Dissolve the benzo in the PG and add water. I'm sure one of the chemistry gurus can give you the proportions for that. Then you won't have to worry about it any more.

 

You'll get through this. Many, many of us have been in the same boat you're in. Once we have gotten started, we've been OK. Not without bumps and bruises (expected in benzo w/d), but OK.

 

Gard

hey gard thanks for responding. I wrote you a long rambling post earlier lol. You must've missed it. I think I'm allergic to pg. It's explained in the other post. I'm driving myself nuts. I'll just have to research some more. But thanks for your encouraging post. I actually have a bottle of pg I bought. But have to look up some things as explained in other post. Too exhausted to research anymore. I'm glad you have a taper plan that you're happy with   Nicole

 

No great shock that I missed something in a post!

Bummer that you can't use PG! 

Yes, this can be an exhausting process and it's good to set it aside sometimes. You'll figure this out eventually. Builder, SG, and others will always be here to help.

 

Gard

[[ho...]]

 

I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

Perhaps you should use PG. No alcohol. No milk. It is what pharmaceutical companies use to make their benzos into liquids so you know it works. You can buy it on amazon. When I was on prescription liquid Xanax it was PG, water, and a salt. I think the salt was a preservative which you don't need because you're not going to store it for months. So you'd be doing exactly what the pharmaceuticals do to make their solutions. Dissolve the benzo in the PG and add water. I'm sure one of the chemistry gurus can give you the proportions for that. Then you won't have to worry about it any more.

 

You'll get through this. Many, many of us have been in the same boat you're in. Once we have gotten started, we've been OK. Not without bumps and bruises (expected in benzo w/d), but OK.

 

Gard

hey gard thanks for responding. I wrote you a long rambling post earlier lol. You must've missed it. I think I'm allergic to pg. It's explained in the other post. I'm driving myself nuts. I'll just have to research some more. But thanks for your encouraging post. I actually have a bottle of pg I bought. But have to look up some things as explained in other post. Too exhausted to research anymore. I'm glad you have a taper plan that you're happy with   Nicole

 

No great shock that I missed something in a post!

Bummer that you can't use PG! 

Yes, this can be an exhausting process and it's good to set it aside sometimes. You'll figure this out eventually. Builder, SG, and others will always be here to help.

 

Gard

i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

[[bu...]]

  I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

And I understand that personal issues can make tapering more difficult.  But you personal issues have nothing to do with the the science of making a solution, and nothing to do with how a taper method works.  If your personal issues really make your taper more difficult, it will be more difficult, no matter what method you choose.

 

I did a C&H taper until it became too difficult to continue.  And the only liquid titration recognized on BB was water, and it doesn't work.  It was a few years later that people began to realize that you could dissolve V in milk.  So for a long time, that was really the only liquid method that got much discussion.  But then we began to learn about alcohol, and more recently, propylene glycol.  And for a long time,nobody, including docs, knew about Rx liquids.  So the "technology" of liquid tapering has come a long way in just a few years.

 

Milk works just fine.  As i said, for a long time, it was almost the only liquid option anyone used (because we didn't really know there were other options.  There are several reasons why milk is not as "user friendly" as other methods.  I think folks switch away from milk just because vodka or PG is easier, less fussy, more portable, etc.  I really don't think it's because milk doesn't work.

 

You really just need tyo choose an alternative that will be the most convenient, and most palatable, and get on with it.  Your immediate personal issues will not be any different based on your chosen taper protocol.

 

I honestly will never understand why so many people fear a specific taper method more then the prospect of not being able to get off a benzo.  And if one method doesn't work...so what.  Re-instate and try another.  That's what I did...several times, actually.

[[ho...]]

Hope, I've been using cashew milk to taper my clonazepam and it has worked very well for me. I would suggest, if you have any extra, to take one and put it in some sort of high fat milk and see how well it dissolves. That may help you feel better once you see that it dissolves completely. The medicine itself is fat soluble so it will make a suspension. That's what I did before I started tapering. Then I started taking it in the milk before I started tapering to see how I felt with it. Just a thought for a way to make a start and get past the fear. Hugs.

hi tntd i thought the milk didnt work for you? im sorry ive asked so many people ive lost track who its worked for. cashew milk sounds yummy. i love almond milk. thanks tntd.    nicole

[[bu...]]

  i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

 

Just FYI, there are many other chemicals in face creams.

[[ho...]]

  I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

And I understand that personal issues can make tapering more difficult.  But you personal issues have nothing to do with the the science of making a solution, and nothing to do with how a taper method works.  If your personal issues really make your taper more difficult, it will be more difficult, no matter what method you choose.

 

I did a C&H taper until it became too difficult to continue.  And the only liquid titration recognized on BB was water, and it doesn't work.  It was a few years later that people began to realize that you could dissolve V in milk.  So for a long time, that was really the only liquid method that got much discussion.  But then we began to learn about alcohol, and more recently, propylene glycol.  And for a long time,nobody, including docs, knew about Rx liquids.  So the "technology" of liquid tapering has come a long way in just a few years.

 

Milk works just fine.  As i said, for a long time, it was almost the only liquid option anyone used (because we didn't really know there were other options.  There are several reasons why milk is not as "user friendly" as other methods.  I think folks switch away from milk just because vodka or PG is easier, less fussy, more portable, etc.  I really don't think it's because milk doesn't work.

 

You really just need tyo choose an alternative that will be the most convenient, and most palatable, and get on with it.  Your immediate personal issues will not be any different based on your chosen taper protocol.

 

I honestly will never understand why so many people fear a specific taper method more then the prospect of not being able to get off a benzo.  And if one method doesn't work...so what.  Re-instate and try another.  That's what I did...several times, actually.

well unfortunately my personal issues are affecting my taper method as i cant walk or stand for long and relying on my husband who i dont see everyday to do my doses. so doing the milk everyday is an issue. but ill figure something out. thank you. nicole

[[ho...]]

  i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

 

Just FYI, there are many other chemicals in face creams.

yes i know as ive tried about 50 and most have pg in them. only thing i can use on my face now is coconut oil. but i used eye drops the other day and had optical migraine which ive had before from fragrances or chemicals and ingredients are pg. and have the gene mutations. i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

[[pr...]]

  i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

 

Just FYI, there are many other chemicals in face creams.

yes i know as ive tried about 50 and most have pg in them. only thing i can use on my face now is coconut oil. but i used eye drops the other day and had optical migraine which ive had before from fragrances or chemicals and ingredients are pg. and have the gene mutations. i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

 

 

hi nicole,

 

i get those kinds of headaches from fragrances and chemcials too. i had to look for skin care items that are all fragrance and chemical free. i've done over 20 years of research as i am also an esthetician and have about ten really wonderful and very effective skin care lines that i use -- if you're ever interested i can share with you.

 

i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

 

did you have specific blood work done to find out about your deficiency and that you do not methylate b vitamins? i am interested in knowing which specific blood tests to do next so i will have to go over it with my doctor. thanks for letting me know? - Pretty

[[...]]

  i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

Just FYI, there are many other chemicals in face creams.

yes i know as ive tried about 50 and most have pg in them. only thing i can use on my face now is coconut oil. but i used eye drops the other day and had optical migraine which ive had before from fragrances or chemicals and ingredients are pg. and have the gene mutations. i do not methylate b vitamins. pg turns to lactic acid which if youre b1 deficient can cause lactic acid toxicity. thats death. so i got a lot of variables to consider here.

 

I think you said you have a bottle of PG.  Why not put a little in water and drink it or put a little on your skin to see if you react.  Then you'll know for sure if it is the PG you are allergic to.

[Guest [ba...]]

I honestly will never understand why so many people fear a specific taper method more then the prospect of not being able to get off a benzo.  And if one method doesn't work...so what.  Re-instate and try another.  That's what I did...several times, actually.

 

Builder - fear runs rampant here.  In addition to some underlying anxiety issues, many people have had their trust of medical advice significantly compromised.  It's no wonder that they question everything from every side, then still defer.  The media and politicians play on that fear/anxiety, and intensity it in the process.  That should be illegal, fwiw.

 

How to allay those fears?  I think that you and SG and a few others here do the best they can to build trust and not build onto existing fears.  In the end, however, it's the other person who must find it in them to trust that information sufficiently to take their first step. 

 

There's much good advice and compassion offered here at BB's, but if it's not accepted, the giver cannot feel anguish.

[[Ma...]]

I second that about fear and what it has done to our battered psyches. 

Add yourself to that list of 2 trustworthy people on this forum that give good sound advice.  The 3 of you are the only people I trust in this tapering process.

[[ga...]]

 

i think im allergic to pg. when i use face cream with pg in it on my face it burns like fire and i have gene mutations. i was just asking if you have uptick in symptoms when you switched to alcohol and how long it lasted? do you drink yours on full stomach? thanks gard  nicole

 

The first time I liquefied (before my long hold), I did not notice anything different. This time I was liquefying a larger percentage of my whole dose (50%) and I did notice an uptick in symptoms. I think it was about a month before it settled down, but it wasn't nearly as bad as when I crashed off of the Xanax (from a too-fast taper).

 

I have little or nothing in my stomach when I take my dose. I take 3ml of alcohol 3 times/day. I have never been a drinker except maybe a glass of wine once/year at a social event, which would only make me sleepy. I notice no effects from the 3 ml of alcohol.

 

I think the uptick was from opening the capsules, not from the alcohol. My Librium comes in capsule that don't dissolve in anything I've tried, so I have to open them and pour them into the alcohol to make my liquid.

 

 

[[ga...]]

  I know I've driven you nuts with this builder but there's aspects in my personal life, health issues, etc etc that have me so indecisive. I read you link. The milk does have the fat distributed through out. Where is the evidence the benzos adheres to this milk fat evenly? That's what I'm worried about. Seems everybody that uses milk switches to alcohol or pg. I've spoke to many that said the switch from milk to alcohol was like night and day (better). People could be using milk to taper and thinking it's working and suffering unneccasairly. I've made some drastic mistakes over this year and I'm not going to make anymore.  :'(

 

And I understand that personal issues can make tapering more difficult.  But you personal issues have nothing to do with the the science of making a solution, and nothing to do with how a taper method works.  If your personal issues really make your taper more difficult, it will be more difficult, no matter what method you choose.  Yup! You see this all over the boards and I experience it myself daily due to significant health problems causing me to lose my job and isolate me and having a special needs child. I just have to accept the pain and move forward. Easier said than done, but doable with a lot of hard work (developing coping skills and building a support network). Ditto to what Bads said about the media. I don't watch the news! So somebody PM me if we're about to have a nuclear war or something.

 

I did a C&H taper until it became too difficult to continue.  And the only liquid titration recognized on BB was water, and it doesn't work.  It was a few years later that people began to realize that you could dissolve V in milk.  So for a long time, that was really the only liquid method that got much discussion.  But then we began to learn about alcohol, and more recently, propylene glycol.  And for a long time,nobody, including docs, knew about Rx liquids.  So the "technology" of liquid tapering has come a long way in just a few years.

 

Milk works just fine.  As i said, for a long time, it was almost the only liquid option anyone used (because we didn't really know there were other options.  There are several reasons why milk is not as "user friendly" as other methods.  I think folks switch away from milk just because vodka or PG is easier, less fussy, more portable, etc.  I really don't think it's because milk doesn't work.

 

You really just need tyo choose an alternative that will be the most convenient, and most palatable, and get on with it.  Your immediate personal issues will not be any different based on your chosen taper protocol.

 

I honestly will never understand why so many people fear a specific taper method more then the prospect of not being able to get off a benzo.  And if one method doesn't work...so what.  Re-instate and try another.  That's what I did...several times, actually. Some of us are more naturally fearful than you are, builder. Can we swap nervous systems? 

 

Gard

[[bu...]]

I understand fear of benzo damage (I definitely had that) and i kinda understand fear of tapering.  Tapering is clearly at best, an unpleasant experience for most of us.  But it almost certainly will NOT cause any irreversible damage.

 

But what I don't get is fear of a method.  You learn what the alternative are and you pick one that seems to work best for you.  If it is "unsuccessful", you back up and go back to the beginning.  There has been no permanent damage, so other than perhaps some discomfort, (and we all already expect that) its nothing gained but nothing lost.

 

To me, anytime I learned about a different taper protocol, I saw an opportunity, not a threat.  And for the record, I tried several different protocol that didn't work.  But each time, I just when back to the starting point.  Yeah, each failure brought a period of significant sxs, but if you don't want to try to taper, then by default, you are choosing to stay on benzos.  Not a good choice, IMO.