Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ju...]]

 

 

 

 

Your sig says you went from 4mg to 3 mg from dec 26 to jan 12th. that is a 25% cut.

 

If you read that whole line it says "12/26/16 4mg start .5mg cuts"

meaning I did cut to and hold at 4.5mg . From 7 down to 4 mg,

I was really feeling like my old self, getting out, driving, even a movie or two.

It felt like my body was rejecting the Valium, and I was feeling better more often.

Now I'm not so sure !

I appreciate your input and help ! I just did a 45 min epsom salt foot bath, and it seemed

to take the edge off the anxiety a bit. Cog Fog also very bad today.

-Justaman

[[ed...]]

 

 

 

 

Your sig says you went from 4mg to 3 mg from dec 26 to jan 12th. that is a 25% cut.

 

If you read that whole line it says "12/26/16 4mg start .5mg cuts"

meaning I did cut to and hold at 4.5mg . From 7 down to 4 mg,

I was really feeling like my old self, getting out, driving, even a movie or two.

It felt like my body was rejecting the Valium, and I was feeling better more often.

Now I'm not so sure !

I appreciate your input and help ! I just did a 45 min epsom salt foot bath, and it seemed

to take the edge off the anxiety a bit. Cog Fog also very bad today.

-Justaman

 

Hey Just,

 

It's simply a matter of your cuts catching up with you. You've moved pretty briskly with your cuts despite reaching lower dosages.  Just hang out for a while and wait for your system to catch up again.  It happens all the time to many of us. The long half life of valium sometimes delays our symptoms and we don't know we've cut too quickly until they hit. Just like a set of firecrackers with a long fuse.  It may get worse and worse for a short period of time, but you'll start to emerge again with a lessening of the anxiety.  Don't worry. This is temporary.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Ju...]]

Hi Edzo;

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I will stick it out at 3mg and sleep in the bed I

have made for myself. After I stabilize, I won't make this mistake again. I'm thinking

dry micro taper. I don't know if I can handle the liquid thing, I'm always fumbling and

dropping things because of this. As for the math; I got a B+ in Calculus III ! And

now simple calcs are very hard.

-Justaman

[[ed...]]

I'm the same way, Just. PhD work in Finance and now I need to use the calculator on my laptop for pretty simple addition and subtraction.  It's okay. I have confidence we'll bounce back. 

[[Ki...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

[[jr...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

 

A liquid taper is easy as falling off a log. if you can dry taper, you can liquid taper.

[[...]]

Kitty,

 

Do you think being a rapid metabloizer is causing you to have to make tiny cuts?

[[Va...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

 

A liquid taper is easy as falling off a log. if you can dry taper, you can liquid taper.

[[be...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

 

A liquid taper is easy as falling off a log. if you can dry taper, you can liquid taper.

Great analogy, I love it, once I figured it out....

[[ga...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

 

A liquid taper is easy as falling off a log. if you can dry taper, you can liquid taper.

 

I'm pretty sure I could learn to fall over faster than I learned to liquid taper!   But that I know it, I like it much better. 

 

No worries Kitty. It looks like V and jr have just volunteered to hold your hand and explain things over and over while you figure it out!

[[Ki...]]

Kitty,

 

Do you think being a rapid metabloizer is causing you to have to make tiny cuts?

It may be that but it also might be that after 16 years of filling my brain with this stuff my brain is just going to require a little longer than average to heal. And thats ok too. I would rather take longer than average and be pretty much healed when I jump than have to wait out a lot of symptoms after I jump!

[[Ki...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

 

A liquid taper is easy as falling off a log. if you can dry taper, you can liquid taper.

 

I'm pretty sure I could learn to fall over faster than I learned to liquid taper!   But that I know it, I like it much better. 

 

No worries Kitty. It looks like V and jr have just volunteered to hold your hand and explain things over and over while you figure it out!

If anyone wants to hold my hand Im willing to try. Maybe I can just throw my grapefruit juice in there too. And some bourbon would be nice (just kidding when I can do that again I dont want it to taste like valium!) Poor SG helped me with my taper plan math for a while and I felt lime I had the poor guy clenching his fists the whole time! I warn anyone who wants to help me I AM SPECIAL NEEDS IN MATH😜

[[jr...]]

I am still doing a dry MT. Im just not able to get my head around the liquid thing. I know everyone says its easy but my benzo brain is able to take .001 off a scale and thats about it!

 

A liquid taper is easy as falling off a log. if you can dry taper, you can liquid taper.

 

I'm pretty sure I could learn to fall over faster than I learned to liquid taper!   But that I know it, I like it much better. 

 

No worries Kitty. It looks like V and jr have just volunteered to hold your hand and explain things over and over while you figure it out!

If anyone wants to hold my hand Im willing to try. Maybe I can just throw my grapefruit juice in there too. And some bourbon would be nice (just kidding when I can do that again I dont want it to taste like valium!) Poor SG helped me with my taper plan math for a while and I felt lime I had the poor guy clenching his fists the whole time! I warn anyone who wants to help me I AM SPECIAL NEEDS IN MATH😜

 

what size pills do you have and what is your dosage?

[[Ki...]]

5 mg pills Im at 7.5- exactly!- today. Pill weight is 160 average, some as low as 155 up to 164. I do weigh each pill since there is so much variance. Right now my pill weight total is .240.

[[jr...]]

you can take 5mg dry and liquify the rest of your dose . dissolve 5mg in 2ml alcohol or pg and add 198ml water. your solution will be 5mg/200ml=.025mg/ml. this is enough liquid for 2 days. take 1/2 the first day and the other half the next. Do this for a week or so to get used to it. for some reason, switching to liquid gives a slight problem for some. then after that remove 1ml from  your dose the first  day.  2ml the second day and so on. keep a journal so you don't forget where you are. that will be a cut of 10% for the first month.the % will increase as you get lower so you may want to do every other day at some point. some body here will check my numbers so that we are positive that is right.

[[Ki...]]

Since I am a fast metabolizer I wont be able to do anything every other day, my dosimg is hard enough to figure out as it is using the grapefruit juice to slow it down without slowing other things down too much as well. I think I may be better off just sticking to the dry taper- the metabolism enzyme in me thats messed up seems to make everything more difficult. Really all I do is cut up 2 pills every day- its not difficult with valium. As I get lower Im hoping my doc will switch me to the 2 mg pills instead and it seems like that should be even easier and more accurate as I taper lower. Thanks for the idea but it sounds like it could present problems for me later on!

[[ga...]]

Since I am a fast metabolizer I wont be able to do anything every other day, my dosimg is hard enough to figure out as it is using the grapefruit juice to slow it down without slowing other things down too much as well. I think I may be better off just sticking to the dry taper- the metabolism enzyme in me thats messed up seems to make everything more difficult. Really all I do is cut up 2 pills every day- its not difficult with valium. As I get lower Im hoping my doc will switch me to the 2 mg pills instead and it seems like that should be even easier and more accurate as I taper lower. Thanks for the idea but it sounds like it could present problems for me later on!

 

I think jr was saying as you get lower you only make a reduction every other day to give your body a chance to get used to the reduction.

 

That grapefruit juice thing sounds a little scary. I just dose more often to get around being a fast metabolizer.

[[...]]

How did you guys find out you are fast metabolizers?

 

I take K and had to move my doses to three times a day because I was getting interdose w/d on two times a day.

 

I found these tapering Excel Spreadsheets. I really like to use them to help me figure out my taper amounts. I don't use them as a daily guide just to help me know how much to taper. I'm doing a sxs based taper from here on out but this spreadsheet has really helped me figure out how much I want to cut.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BOT83q-Avb9NDlIQ-WC5lT8jk_9-RrUDFz1ArGAi51s/edit#gid=0

 

 

[[Ul...]]

Hi Nicole,

 

I use Silk brand Cashew milk. It says 25 cal right on the front of the box. You are welcome to PM me if you want more information. 

 

 

Jeff,

 

I stand by my words. You are very strong. I can't believe how much you are struggling and yet you keep on going. Thank you for filling me in on your story a bit more.

 

The idea for doing the 2.5% cut (.03mg) was to see how soon my w/d sxs hit and how they proceed. It has been awful so far. I didn't think such a small cut would cause such intense sxs. I also really don't like the idea that I have to wait to see what will happen. When I was doing the micro-taper if I decided to hold it was one maybe two days before I went back to my baseline sxs of anxiety and agoraphobia. I did this cut and the sxs hit the very first day and have only been getting worse so far. 

 

I'm so sorry that you are having such a hard time. It does make sense though with all the other PD you have gotten off of. My pdoc said he's not surprised that I'm so sensitive because of the CT in June and he also included the 25% benzo reduction the other doctor forced me to do in March. I ended up updosing because of the CT and now it seems even the tiniest cut causes symptoms. I was also on a variety of medications over the course of six or seven years about 12 years ago and according to my doctor that isn't helping things either. So if my little drug history is making me super sensitive I'm not surprised that you are super sensitive with your drug history. It really sucks though.

 

I really like your idea of doing a small cut for just one day and seeing how I feel. Back to the .0019mg that I was cutting when I first started this journey. I think you told me before but what is a small cut for you?  Are you able to get out of the house at all? How much K do you still have left to taper off of? '

 

I still think you are pretty amazing for powering through despite everything. You have been a great help and inspiration to me as I struggle with how sensitive I am to every little cut.   

 

You da man 

 

Well aren't you the sweetheart!! I'm sure your husband is a very lucky guy. And I see that you did a .03mg cut. To me, that's HUGE. Mercy! I can stand a .005mg cut every so often, but that's about it...maybe .0025 or so. I had to updose a while and then started back again. I'm now at .99mg. Finally got below 1mg which is a psychological boost over 6mg!! I get out of the house to do a very part time job, but there are days when that's a massive battle. I feel your pain, sister!! Agoraphobia bites the big one. Depression is also another huge issue I deal with when cutting. It's often a bigger problem than the agoraphobia, but I just do the best I can. Heck, I'm 56!! I'm supposed to have a career and be working towards retirement, but the K took over and that's now out of the question. We gotta keep the faith and move on.

 

Have a ridiculously awesome day!! You'll get there

 

Jeff

[[jr...]]

Since I am a fast metabolizer I wont be able to do anything every other day, my dosimg is hard enough to figure out as it is using the grapefruit juice to slow it down without slowing other things down too much as well. I think I may be better off just sticking to the dry taper- the metabolism enzyme in me thats messed up seems to make everything more difficult. Really all I do is cut up 2 pills every day- its not difficult with valium. As I get lower Im hoping my doc will switch me to the 2 mg pills instead and it seems like that should be even easier and more accurate as I taper lower. Thanks for the idea but it sounds like it could present problems for me later on!

 

one thing I did during my dry taper was to grind 10 pills into a powder and weigh out my doses on a scale.

[[ga...]]

tntd, Genetic testing can reveal the levels of your liver enzymes. Certain enzymes metabolize certain drugs. If you have high levels, you are fast metabolizer of those drugs.

 

That is a very simplistic explanation, but as much as I understand.

[[...]]

Hi Jeff,

 

We will get there. Yeah the .03mg cut has turned out to be an awful mess for me. I'm going to try a .0038mg cut next and hold to see what happens. Trying to figure out what amount I can hold and what the lag time for sxs is.

 

You are under 1mg, woohoo!! That is cause for celebration!! Congratulations 

 

I have heard that going really slow a lot of people have their sxs decrease. I take it you haven't had that experience. I'm hoping as the agoraphobia is really tough. Working on acceptance and all but at the rate I'm going it is going to be years and I have a hard time imagining being housebound for that long. I'm hoping the .0038 won't be too much for me. If it is I'll adjust  though. I think I've found that because I have daily sxs that when they go up even a little I become non-functional so I'm trying to find a way to stay at least semi-functional!!

 

As for my husband I feel like I'm a really lucky gal He has been so supportive with all this. He does all the shopping and half the time does the cooking too, along with a full time job. I've told him it could last for years and he tells me that we'll make it work. He's pretty amazing.

 

You have an amazing day too. We will both get there, I'm 50 by the way so I really get your concerns about retirement and all. We will survive and nothing will stop us after this!! Thanks for all your info, it helps me soooooo much.    

 

Hey Gard, thanks for the information. I'm supposed to have my physical soon so if I remember I will ask her about doing some genetic testing. I'll just have to write it down so I don't forget   

[[Ma...]]

Where do i get this test to determine metabolizer of liver enzymes?

[[bu...]]

tntd, Genetic testing can reveal the levels of your liver enzymes. Certain enzymes metabolize certain drugs. If you have high levels, you are fast metabolizer of those drugs.

 

That is a very simplistic explanation, but as much as I understand.

 

So I gotta ask...you get a test done and find out that you have some "abnormality",  that may or may not effect how you respond to a med.  Now what?

 

If in fact your metabolism is slower or faster than some else's,  what are you going to do differently?  If you are for example, metabolize your benzo more quickly than normal, that was true before you started to taper. So if there was no problem before you atarted to taper, why should it be a problem during your taper? As I understand, a fast metabolizer would be like taking a lower dose each day.  So if Judy was taking 10mg/day, and Jane was taking 8mg/day, are they supposed to do their tapers differently?

 

Regardless of your metabolism, a symptom-based taper will tell you how to proceed.

 

JMHO

[[Ul...]]

Hi Jeff,

 

We will get there. Yeah the .03mg cut has turned out to be an awful mess for me. I'm going to try a .0038mg cut next and hold to see what happens. Trying to figure out what amount I can hold and what the lag time for sxs is.

 

You are under 1mg, woohoo!! That is cause for celebration!! Congratulations 

 

I have heard that going really slow a lot of people have their sxs decrease. I take it you haven't had that experience. I'm hoping as the agoraphobia is really tough. Working on acceptance and all but at the rate I'm going it is going to be years and I have a hard time imagining being housebound for that long. I'm hoping the .0038 won't be too much for me. If it is I'll adjust  though. I think I've found that because I have daily sxs that when they go up even a little I become non-functional so I'm trying to find a way to stay at least semi-functional!!

 

As for my husband I feel like I'm a really lucky gal He has been so supportive with all this. He does all the shopping and half the time does the cooking too, along with a full time job. I've told him it could last for years and he tells me that we'll make it work. He's pretty amazing.

 

You have an amazing day too. We will both get there, I'm 50 by the way so I really get your concerns about retirement and all. We will survive and nothing will stop us after this!! Thanks for all your info, it helps me soooooo much.    

 

Hey Gard, thanks for the information. I'm supposed to have my physical soon so if I remember I will ask her about doing some genetic testing. I'll just have to write it down so I don't forget   

 

I bet anything that it's not going to take you years to do this, tnt. You've come a lot farther than you think. I think you'll surprise yourself, find your speed and niche for tapering, and then be off this trash. And no, I haven't had the experience of having fewer sx by going slow, but I have no choice. It's the only thing that "works". Going faster or dry cutting sure isn't my answer!! Anyway, continue to keep the faith and kick some booty. Here's to you being SUPER functional

 

Happy days!

 

Jeff