Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Magnolia, I have 2 scales too- one gemini and one accuweigh. They are usually pretty close I just bought another in case one goes on the fritz like my dishwasher just did! My pharmacy switched generics on me but I had some stored away so Im using one whole new pill and a partial old pill. There was a pretty substantial weight difference. I think the basic idea of this minor variation bothering some folks more than others also depends on metabolism- if you metabolize normally you probably wouldnt notice it but I really did. I had to weigh and reweigh since I burn the meds up so fast. Im sure other people will say Im wrong but I know what I feel and now that I slowed down my metabolism a bit it really doesnt matter as much. But all we can do is the best we can with what we are given, and try to remember we are lucky to have the help on here that we do instead of just the MEDICAL PROFESSION😖

 

I had this happen to me. Now my doctor specifies which brand and no substitutions. I found that my locally owned pharmacy has more ability to special order brands than the big name pharmacies, who have "preferred brands" that they always use. So now I place my order 3 days ahead and always get the same brand. I actually started this because I have Celiac disease and wanted meds with no grains as fillers, but I find it also helps to avoid wild pill weight fluctuations.

[[bu...]]

 

 

I had this happen to me. Now my doctor specifies which brand and no substitutions. I found that my locally owned pharmacy has more ability to special order brands than the big name pharmacies, who have "preferred brands" that they always use. So now I place my order 3 days ahead and always get the same brand. I actually started this because I have Celiac disease and wanted meds with no grains as fillers, but I find it also helps to avoid wild pill weight fluctuations.

 

And if possible, its just good to avoid switching brands anyway.  Even if there is no difference in "quality" or potency, there will be differences in ingredients, density, solubility, which will often require some period of adjustment.  All of my pharmacists have agreed on this.

[[...]]

Agree not to switch brands. You can find a way to get your same generic. Try other pharmacies. They all negotiate different deals and rates with drug companies.

The Amy of active ingredient can vary 25% between brands.

[[Le...]]

Badsocref, a while back a buddy asked about scales...something more accurate than the Gemini, but not outrageously expensive. I think the scale you mentioned was about US $400. Does any of this ring a bell? Thanks much. Left 

[[jr...]]

The $25 gemini scale is really all you need to weigh out doses. I used it successfully for the majority of my taper. While it may not be 100% , it is consistent. and like Builder says, Consistency is  better than accuracy.

[[Le...]]

The $25 gemini scale is really all you need to weigh out doses. I used it successfully for the majority of my taper. While it may not be 100% , it is consistent. and like Builder says, Consistency is  better than accuracy.

I dose 4xs a day and want to keep all doses as even as possible. That means dividing any cut 4 ways. That's why I was pondering a somewhat more accurate scale. Perhaps I could start with the Gemini and see how it goes. Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

 

And CONGRATULATIONS on your jump! How are you doing?

[[Ul...]]

Anybody heard how SG is doing since going through all of that kidney stone stuff? I might have missed a post since I don't get on everyday. Thanks!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

I haven't seen him on the thread recently, so I have been wondering, too, Jeff.

[[...]]

Anybody heard how SG is doing since going through all of that kidney stone stuff? I might have missed a post since I don't get on everyday. Thanks!

 

Jeff

 

I haven't seen him on the thread recently, so I have been wondering, too, Jeff.

 

I'm here and still around, just not as active these days.  The stone was fractured and I have passed two small pieces, but the bulk of it remains - that's the bad news.  The good news is, for whatever reason, I have been pain free all this time since the lithotripsy.  I go back for yet another CT scan toward the end of the month, followed by yet another doc appointment to decide what to do.  The hope is I will have passed it all by then.

[[...]]

Hi,

 

Just a quick question regarding holding on microtaper. Switched from oxazepam to Valium for taper. Started at 3.75 mg V cut down to 2.5 and began daily microtaper (liquid). Was going great for 17 days, admittedly I was on holidays and having a great time and a break from my regular life. Back home now and feel like I'm slipping again. Sometimes it's hard to tell if symptoms are situational or due to benzo taper/withdrawal.

 

I'm 18 days in and now down to 1.9mg V daily. As I said I feel a little unsteady. Should I press on or hold for a bit? If holding, do I just wait until I feel a little better to continue? Will it set me back to hold, and how long is too long to hold?

 

Any thoughts/experiences appreciated!

 

Thanks.

[[Va...]]

Hi,

 

Just a quick question regarding holding on microtaper. Switched from oxazepam to Valium for taper. Started at 3.75 mg V cut down to 2.5 and began daily microtaper (liquid). Was going great for 17 days, admittedly I was on holidays and having a great time and a break from my regular life. Back home now and feel like I'm slipping again. Sometimes it's hard to tell if symptoms are situational or due to benzo taper/withdrawal.

 

I'm 18 days in and now down to 1.9mg V daily. As I said I feel a little unsteady. Should I press on or hold for a bit? If holding, do I just wait until I feel a little better to continue? Will it set me back to hold, and how long is too long to hold?

 

Any thoughts/experiences appreciated!

 

Thanks.

I held for 6 months without a problem. If you're having intolerable sxs it's an indication your body needs a break IMO.  --V

[[ed...]]

Hi,

 

Just a quick question regarding holding on microtaper. Switched from oxazepam to Valium for taper. Started at 3.75 mg V cut down to 2.5 and began daily microtaper (liquid). Was going great for 17 days, admittedly I was on holidays and having a great time and a break from my regular life. Back home now and feel like I'm slipping again. Sometimes it's hard to tell if symptoms are situational or due to benzo taper/withdrawal.

 

I'm 18 days in and now down to 1.9mg V daily. As I said I feel a little unsteady. Should I press on or hold for a bit? If holding, do I just wait until I feel a little better to continue? Will it set me back to hold, and how long is too long to hold?

 

Any thoughts/experiences appreciated!

 

Thanks.

 

You seem to be cutting pretty quickly and could possibly set yourself up for a fall at this rate. Would you mind putting together a signature? This will most certainly lead to a lot more input from other posters.

 

Best,

Ed

[[ga...]]

Anybody heard how SG is doing since going through all of that kidney stone stuff? I might have missed a post since I don't get on everyday. Thanks!

 

Jeff

 

I haven't seen him on the thread recently, so I have been wondering, too, Jeff.

 

I'm here and still around, just not as active these days.  The stone was fractured and I have passed two small pieces, but the bulk of it remains - that's the bad news.  The good news is, for whatever reason, I have been pain free all this time since the lithotripsy.  I go back for yet another CT scan toward the end of the month, followed by yet another doc appointment to decide what to do.  The hope is I will have passed it all by then.

 

I'm really glad the pain is gone, but very sorry to hear the procedure has left you waiting in limbo like this. Let's hope the rest of those stones just miraculously pass without incident. You must be tired with this on top of your w/d symptoms. We will be keeping you in our thoughts and hoping things improve for you soon.

 

Gard

[[...]]

I was able to get the withdrawal chart from my pdoc. I find it interesting that the Prolonged withdrawal section only shows it lasting for 12 months.

 

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss92/master87_bucket/Benzo%20withdrawal%20chart.jpeg

 

I'm curious, is anyone doing a daily micro taper? If you are what is the amount you are tapering by daily. I was doing .0019mg a day which was equal to about 4% in a month. I didn't last for more than 10 days. Now my pdoc wants me to try to cut and hold starting at 2.5% of my dose and holding for a month. Still seems like a micro cut, .03mg, except now it's not daily it's once a month.  Any thoughts?

 

Thanks and Happy New Year to everyone 

 

Hey tnt! You asked if anyone is doing a daily micro taper. I'm assuming that you're asking if anyone is doing a dry cut daily micro taper, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not much help, but I do a liquid daily micro taper, and it's not really even "daily" because I just can't. I try to do a cut (about .005mg) and then hold a couple days or more and then do it again. Not a whole lot of rhyme or reason as to why I do it that way, but that's just what "works" for me. My journey was even pretty brutal from 6mg of K per day down to where I am now. I saw that most people really blow through the numbers when they're at higher doses and then slow down on the lower dose. I didn't have that luxury, but it's just the way things have gone. I've also had more than a few periods of long holds due to surgeries, etc. For me, the long holds stunk. I think it was because I was in tolerance during those times. My tolerance sx are/were every bit as bad as the sx I get when actually cutting. So your doc wants you to do a cut and then hold for a month? That seems like a long hold to me, but heck, if it works for you, then let 'er rip!! What has helped me was doing several minor cuts rather than a cut and a long hold. Cut and hold can be done with liquid just as much as with dry cutting, but I like the control of micro liquid cutting. You'll find your path. One day this will all be a distant memory for you. Make it an awesome 2017!!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm doing a liquid taper. I think the point of the month hold is to see how my symptoms go. When do they start, how long do they last, that sort of thing. I had such a horrible experience with doing a daily cut. Then I tried to do a pattern using .0019mg for my cuts and I still ended up in a world of withdrawal pain. So now I'm just playing around with how to do this in a way that I can stay somewhat funcitonal for most of the time. Right now I'm holding as I have a really bad cold and I'm trying to get over that before I start cutting again. There are so many paths to take in this tapering game. The problem is figuring out which path is the right path for you!  Do you have bad symptoms when you cut or are you able to keep things pretty stable?

 

T

[Guest [ba...]]

Badsocref, a while back a buddy asked about scales...something more accurate than the Gemini, but not outrageously expensive. I think the scale you mentioned was about US $400. Does any of this ring a bell? Thanks much. Left 

 

There are a lot of good scales out there.  Go to Ebay, and search for milligram scales.  Narrow the search by setting the price range from $200 to $600 and see what's out there.  I found several adequate scales.

 

fwiw - I don't believe people really need a more accurate scale than those little gemini-20's, but I know people fret about these little variations.

[[bu...]]

Hi,

 

Just a quick question regarding holding on microtaper. Switched from oxazepam to Valium for taper. Started at 3.75 mg V cut down to 2.5 and began daily microtaper (liquid). Was going great for 17 days, admittedly I was on holidays and having a great time and a break from my regular life. Back home now and feel like I'm slipping again. Sometimes it's hard to tell if symptoms are situational or due to benzo taper/withdrawal.

 

I'm 18 days in and now down to 1.9mg V daily. As I said I feel a little unsteady. Should I press on or hold for a bit? If holding, do I just wait until I feel a little better to continue? Will it set me back to hold, and how long is too long to hold?

 

Any thoughts/experiences appreciated!

 

Thanks.

 

Your own description and sequence certainly indicates it's situational.

 

One of the advantage of liquid/daily taper is any  sxs will come on gradually, instead of slamming you, like an overly agressive single cut does.  If you feel sxs progressing, you can hold until they resolve, or updose if they don't resolve.

[[Le...]]

Badsocref, a while back a buddy asked about scales...something more accurate than the Gemini, but not outrageously expensive. I think the scale you mentioned was about US $400. Does any of this ring a bell? Thanks much. Left 

 

There are a lot of good scales out there.  Go to Ebay, and search for milligram scales.  Narrow the search by setting the price range from $200 to $600 and see what's out there.  I found several adequate scales.

 

fwiw - I don't believe people really need a more accurate scale than those little gemini-20's, but I know people fret about these little variations.

Thanks Badsocref! Sadly, I do fret (a lot) about the variations. Must be the anxiety.

[[Ul...]]

I was able to get the withdrawal chart from my pdoc. I find it interesting that the Prolonged withdrawal section only shows it lasting for 12 months.

 

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss92/master87_bucket/Benzo%20withdrawal%20chart.jpeg

 

I'm curious, is anyone doing a daily micro taper? If you are what is the amount you are tapering by daily. I was doing .0019mg a day which was equal to about 4% in a month. I didn't last for more than 10 days. Now my pdoc wants me to try to cut and hold starting at 2.5% of my dose and holding for a month. Still seems like a micro cut, .03mg, except now it's not daily it's once a month.  Any thoughts?

 

Thanks and Happy New Year to everyone 

 

Hey tnt! You asked if anyone is doing a daily micro taper. I'm assuming that you're asking if anyone is doing a dry cut daily micro taper, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not much help, but I do a liquid daily micro taper, and it's not really even "daily" because I just can't. I try to do a cut (about .005mg) and then hold a couple days or more and then do it again. Not a whole lot of rhyme or reason as to why I do it that way, but that's just what "works" for me. My journey was even pretty brutal from 6mg of K per day down to where I am now. I saw that most people really blow through the numbers when they're at higher doses and then slow down on the lower dose. I didn't have that luxury, but it's just the way things have gone. I've also had more than a few periods of long holds due to surgeries, etc. For me, the long holds stunk. I think it was because I was in tolerance during those times. My tolerance sx are/were every bit as bad as the sx I get when actually cutting. So your doc wants you to do a cut and then hold for a month? That seems like a long hold to me, but heck, if it works for you, then let 'er rip!! What has helped me was doing several minor cuts rather than a cut and a long hold. Cut and hold can be done with liquid just as much as with dry cutting, but I like the control of micro liquid cutting. You'll find your path. One day this will all be a distant memory for you. Make it an awesome 2017!!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm doing a liquid taper. I think the point of the month hold is to see how my symptoms go. When do they start, how long do they last, that sort of thing. I had such a horrible experience with doing a daily cut. Then I tried to do a pattern using .0019mg for my cuts and I still ended up in a world of withdrawal pain. So now I'm just playing around with how to do this in a way that I can stay somewhat funcitonal for most of the time. Right now I'm holding as I have a really bad cold and I'm trying to get over that before I start cutting again. There are so many paths to take in this tapering game. The problem is figuring out which path is the right path for you!  Do you have bad symptoms when you cut or are you able to keep things pretty stable?

 

T

 

Howdy, Miss tnt! Sure, I have symptoms just about all the time. My case is extreme though since I was on such a high dose and for so many years, and that also caused so many other health issues (adrenal problems, thyroid problems, blood sugar, joint problems, etc). So I'm not a very good example. I basically did what you're doing though...I experimented like crazy until I found what "worked" for me. Don't kick yourself too hard if you're not getting the results you want right away. It takes a while, but you'll get to that place where you can move on while taking care of life's responsibilities. Believe me, I know how hard it is, but you'll learn so much about yourself and you'll find strength you never knew you had. Your life is just an experiment right now. Keeping searching. It took me way too long to finally accept that I have to go through this and that I have to do it at such an incredibly slow rate (you can avoid that NOW). I now try to think that "going slow now means a faster recovery at the end", but some days the depression, anxiety, insomnia, agoraphobia and all the other things are just too much, so the goal becomes 'get to the next hour'. Self-care, trust, and positive thoughts will take you a long way. I'm only cutting about one day after a 3-4+ day hold, and that means many, many, many months before I'm off this stuff, but things could change along the way that enable something better. Like I said, keep experimenting! You'll find your path, but it'll change along the way. Plans change, but goals don't

 

Bless ya, girl!!!

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Anybody heard how SG is doing since going through all of that kidney stone stuff? I might have missed a post since I don't get on everyday. Thanks!

 

Jeff

 

I haven't seen him on the thread recently, so I have been wondering, too, Jeff.

 

I'm here and still around, just not as active these days.  The stone was fractured and I have passed two small pieces, but the bulk of it remains - that's the bad news.  The good news is, for whatever reason, I have been pain free all this time since the lithotripsy.  I go back for yet another CT scan toward the end of the month, followed by yet another doc appointment to decide what to do.  The hope is I will have passed it all by then.

 

I'm really glad the pain is gone, but very sorry to hear the procedure has left you waiting in limbo like this. Let's hope the rest of those stones just miraculously pass without incident. You must be tired with this on top of your w/d symptoms. We will be keeping you in our thoughts and hoping things improve for you soon.

 

Gard

 

SG!!! Good news, bad news, huh? My brother-in-law went through a really similar situation such as yours. He fought it for a long time, and I know he wouldn't wish it on anyone, but one day it just literally disappeared. Almost seemed like magic, but it happened after a long journey. I'm pulling for ya and I'm praying for ya!! I wish you nothing but ridiculously incredible awesome things in the very near future. My brother-in-law was in the exact same location at the Ft. Lauderdale airport yesterday as the shooter was when the shooting suddenly started. It was a huge mess and he saw some pretty horrifying things happen, but I bet your physical pain has been even worse. Do what he did...hang strong and move forward!

 

We love you, buddy 

 

Jeff

[[bu...]]

I was able to get the withdrawal chart from my pdoc. I find it interesting that the Prolonged withdrawal section only shows it lasting for 12 months.

 

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss92/master87_bucket/Benzo%20withdrawal%20chart.jpeg

 

I'm curious, is anyone doing a daily micro taper? If you are what is the amount you are tapering by daily. I was doing .0019mg a day which was equal to about 4% in a month. I didn't last for more than 10 days. Now my pdoc wants me to try to cut and hold starting at 2.5% of my dose and holding for a month. Still seems like a micro cut, .03mg, except now it's not daily it's once a month.  Any thoughts?

 

Thanks and Happy New Year to everyone 

 

And please note that

 

1)  The "prolonged" phase shows the sxs to be low intensity, and

 

2) shows the sxs to be steadily and gradually declining.

 

 

[[ga...]]

I was able to get the withdrawal chart from my pdoc. I find it interesting that the Prolonged withdrawal section only shows it lasting for 12 months.

 

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss92/master87_bucket/Benzo%20withdrawal%20chart.jpeg

 

I'm curious, is anyone doing a daily micro taper? If you are what is the amount you are tapering by daily. I was doing .0019mg a day which was equal to about 4% in a month. I didn't last for more than 10 days. Now my pdoc wants me to try to cut and hold starting at 2.5% of my dose and holding for a month. Still seems like a micro cut, .03mg, except now it's not daily it's once a month.  Any thoughts?

 

Thanks and Happy New Year to everyone 

 

And please note that

 

1)  The "prolonged" phase shows the sxs to be low intensity, and

 

2) shows the sxs to be steadily and gradually declining.

 

I confess, I don't even understand this chart. Probably because I can't read the little words at the bottom. Is day 1 the first day of being benzo free? Can somebody explain?

[[bu...]]

 

 

I confess, I don't even understand this chart. Probably because I can't read the little words at the bottom. Is day 1 the first day of being benzo free? Can somebody explain?

 

"Time course and potential withdrawal intensity as influenced by dose and duration of drug action.  HD=high dose, LD=low dose, SA=short-acting, LA=long-acting, PW= prolonged withdrawal."

[[jr...]]

all the chart says is that acute will be tougher for high dose users. I don't agree because I have seen high dose users on here have little trouble getting off and short term users struggle to even taper.

[[ga...]]

 

 

I confess, I don't even understand this chart. Probably because I can't read the little words at the bottom. Is day 1 the first day of being benzo free? Can somebody explain?

 

"Time course and potential withdrawal intensity as influenced by dose and duration of drug action.  HD=high dose, LD=low dose, SA=short-acting, LA=long-acting, PW= prolonged withdrawal."

 

So it is basically comparing the w/d symptoms for the various types of benzos after the last dose?

[[ga...]]

all the chart says is that acute will be tougher for high dose users. I don't agree because I have seen high dose users on here have little trouble getting off and short term users struggle to even taper.

 

Sorry to be obtuse, but what does "acute" actually mean in the case of benzo w/d? While tapering? After tapering? Both?