Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Lizagal,

 

I'm on day 11 of my DLMT pulling .1mL/66mL of milk with 1.25mg of klonopin. I'm in tolerance withdrawal and kindled too. I started holding today as I'm having terror attacks, mild akathisia, crying spells, and severe agoraphobia. I have also been having GI problems off and on along with various pains. Feeling frustrated as I thought the whole idea of the micro taper was to prevent this from happening. I did have someone, Maya I think, suggested a c/c/h pattern with the micro to see how that works. I just need to see if I can get back to baseline miserable so I can function to some extent before I try to taper again. Just not sure which type of c/h pattern to try as I started noticing symptoms on the third day of my taper.

 

I've never done this before and I have to say I'm pretty frightened right now. (That's on top of the taper terror).

 

I also would love to hear other people's ideas on patterns or any other suggestions.

 

Thanks 

[[li...]]

I tried to do .1 ml a day at first but settled on doing a third of that. I wonder about the proactive pattern too--some people swear by it and others just say wait until you notice you're deteriorating. For me it's either really hard or horrendous. I guess horrendous means hold but coming off holds are very hard for me too. I thought we could figure a taper and hold method based on when you would feel a cut but in the last two weeks I can't find a pattern. I hope we both get relief by holding.

[[li...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

[[...]]

It's so hard knowing it is going to take so long and then to run into bad sxs so you have to hold which means it is going to take longer. I have severe agoraphobia and I can't imagine being trapped in the house for five years. I was planning on being one of those people that starts a micro taper and slowly gets better as they're tapering. Maybe that will happen if we slow down or do holds.

 

What Builder said is interesting and makes sense but there has to be a limit on how slow you should have to go. I suppose I could try to reduce the amount I'm pulling instead of using the cut and hold. Though if I cut one day and hold one day while pulling .1mL it's kind of like cutting .05mL a day. Which method is better?

 

I'm with you on the sxs either being hard or horrendous too. So frustrating and scary. I hope we both get relief by holding too.

 

Hugs

[[Va...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

But we also know those who had to start really slow but were able to speed up as they reduced. Right? --V

[[ga...]]

SG, We are all pulling for you!!!! Please check in when you can.

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

Good vibes help!!  I think he got proper pain management til his procedure Wed.

[[bu...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

But we also know those who had to start really slow but were able to speed up as they reduced. Right? --V

 

The fundamental principal of tapering is that by gradually lowering our dose, we are trying to match the  rate we decrease the dosage to the rate at which the body can recover. So, obviously, it's possible to taper too fast, and experience WD sxs, and it's also possible to taper more slowly than necessary.  If you start slower than necessary, then certainly you could speed up, if you chose to.

 

Because of my previous failures with C&H, I chose a very slow rate when I started my daily taper.  I didn't try to speed up, but in retrospect, I feel certain I could have gone faster.  But other than taking longer to get off, there was absolutely no risk, no harm, by going unnecessarily slow.

 

If your taper rate doesn't not exceed your recovery (healing) rate, you should not experience significant withdrawal sxs.

 

But almost everyone on BB seems to think that benzos and withdrawing are the only things that effect our body, our psyche, our daily lives.  But not every anxious day, every nervous stomach, every sleepless night, every headache, etc, is related to your benzo use and benzo withdrawal.

 

Everyone of us was prescribed a benzo because we were suffering from some underlying condition or disorder.  And benzos did NOT cure any of those problems.  So it seems pretty likely that some folks still suffer from the original problem.

 

Many here have been or still are on other meds.  Many have ongoing personal/family/financial/professional problems.  And normal ("non-benzo") people get headaches, upset stomach, sleepless nights, etc, etc.

 

Just because you experience some symptom or conditiion during your taper does NOT mean it has to be a benzo related withdrawal symptom.

[[Ma...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

But we also know those who had to start really slow but were able to speed up as they reduced. Right? --V

 

The fundamental principal of tapering is that by gradually lowering our dose, we are trying to match the  rate we decrease the dosage to the rate at which the body can recover. So, obviously, it's possible to taper too fast, and experience WD sxs, and it's also possible to taper more slowly than necessary.  If you start slower than necessary, then certainly you could speed up, if you chose to.

 

Because of my previous failures with C&H, I chose a very slow rate when I started my daily taper.  I didn't try to speed up, but in retrospect, I feel certain I could have gone faster.  But other than taking longer to get off, there was absolutely no risk, no harm, by going unnecessarily slow.

 

If your taper rate doesn't not exceed your recovery (healing) rate, you should not experience significant withdrawal sxs.

 

But almost everyone on BB seems to think that benzos and withdrawing are the only things that effect our body, our psyche, our daily lives.  But not every anxious day, every nervous stomach, every sleepless night, every headache, etc, is related to your benzo use and benzo withdrawal.

 

Everyone of us was prescribed a benzo because we were suffering from some underlying condition or disorder.  And benzos did NOT cure any of those problems.  So it seems pretty likely that some folks still suffer from the original problem.

 

Many here have been or still are on other meds.  Many have ongoing personal/family/financial/professional problems.  And normal ("non-benzo") people get headaches, upset stomach, sleepless nights, etc, etc.

 

Just because you experience some symptom or conditiion during your taper does NOT mean it has to be a benzo related withdrawal symptom.

 

 

I think instinctively that after a month, My taper rate is too slow. I was going to wait til after holidays but tonight I'm raising from.030 to .0330 for 5 nites and increase to .035 until till after holidays.  Depending how I feel  Jan 1st. I will plan my next step. I took a low potency benzo,temazapam, and hopefully this will give me some room to experiment. Nows the time to raise the cut rate at this high amount of v.  Later I'm sure the decrease will happen. I feel I'm losing oportunity now to expell the valium from my body, even if it's really a small difference.  Any feedback would me appreciated.

[[ga...]]

 

 

But almost everyone on BB seems to think that benzos and withdrawing are the only things that effect our body, our psyche, our daily lives.  But not every anxious day, every nervous stomach, every sleepless night, every headache, etc, is related to your benzo use and benzo withdrawal.

 

Everyone of us was prescribed a benzo because we were suffering from some underlying condition or disorder.  And benzos did NOT cure any of those problems.  So it seems pretty likely that some folks still suffer from the original problem.

 

Many here have been or still are on other meds.  Many have ongoing personal/family/financial/professional problems.  And normal ("non-benzo") people get headaches, upset stomach, sleepless nights, etc, etc.

 

Just because you experience some symptom or conditiion during your taper does NOT mean it has to be a benzo related withdrawal symptom.

 

I have thought this so many times myself. One reason I paused my taper as long as I did was to straighten some things out in my personal life that were really bad for my mental health that for some reason just didn't occur to me until this past year. And also to see if I could get the neuropathy back under control. Now, on wobbly legs, I plan to make a tiny cut. Gosh, even typing that is making me nervous and I haven't even done it yet!    So that would be a pre-benzo-withdrawal symptom. 

 

Gard

[[re...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

But we also know those who had to start really slow but were able to speed up as they reduced. Right? --V

 

The fundamental principal of tapering is that by gradually lowering our dose, we are trying to match the  rate we decrease the dosage to the rate at which the body can recover. So, obviously, it's possible to taper too fast, and experience WD sxs, and it's also possible to taper more slowly than necessary.  If you start slower than necessary, then certainly you could speed up, if you chose to.

 

Because of my previous failures with C&H, I chose a very slow rate when I started my daily taper.  I didn't try to speed up, but in retrospect, I feel certain I could have gone faster.  But other than taking longer to get off, there was absolutely no risk, no harm, by going unnecessarily slow.

 

If your taper rate doesn't not exceed your recovery (healing) rate, you should not experience significant withdrawal sxs.

 

But almost everyone on BB seems to think that benzos and withdrawing are the only things that effect our body, our psyche, our daily lives.  But not every anxious day, every nervous stomach, every sleepless night, every headache, etc, is related to your benzo use and benzo withdrawal.

 

Everyone of us was prescribed a benzo because we were suffering from some underlying condition or disorder.  And benzos did NOT cure any of those problems.  So it seems pretty likely that some folks still suffer from the original problem.

 

Many here have been or still are on other meds.  Many have ongoing personal/family/financial/professional problems.  And normal ("non-benzo") people get headaches, upset stomach, sleepless nights, etc, etc.

 

Just because you experience some symptom or conditiion during your taper does NOT mean it has to be a benzo related withdrawal symptom.

 

 

I think instinctively that after a month, My taper rate is too slow. I was going to wait til after holidays but tonight I'm raising from.030 to .0330 for 5 nites and increase to .035 until till after holidays.  Depending how I feel  Jan 1st. I will plan my next step. I took a low potency benzo,temazapam, and hopefully this will give me some room to experiment. Nows the time to raise the cut rate at this high amount of v.  Later I'm sure the decrease will happen. I feel I'm losing oportunity now to expell the valium from my body, even if it's really a small difference.  Any feedback would me appreciated.

 

I got those holiday thoughts too. I don't want to wait, but today side effects feel pretty bad. I appreciate someone addressing that we were prescribed benzos in the first place for a problem that might mimic withdrawal. Me... originally panic attacks.

 

I've been thinking that a daily taper is the best way to go... although cutting and weighing my pills is getting harder and harder the lower I go. It seems like I can't get such tiny fragments of diazepam on the scale. They break off on the tweezers. I'm still weighing but thinking I should switch soon to liquid.

[[fi...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

But we also know those who had to start really slow but were able to speed up as they reduced. Right? --V

 

The fundamental principal of tapering is that by gradually lowering our dose, we are trying to match the  rate we decrease the dosage to the rate at which the body can recover. So, obviously, it's possible to taper too fast, and experience WD sxs, and it's also possible to taper more slowly than necessary.  If you start slower than necessary, then certainly you could speed up, if you chose to.

 

Because of my previous failures with C&H, I chose a very slow rate when I started my daily taper.  I didn't try to speed up, but in retrospect, I feel certain I could have gone faster.  But other than taking longer to get off, there was absolutely no risk, no harm, by going unnecessarily slow.

 

If your taper rate doesn't not exceed your recovery (healing) rate, you should not experience significant withdrawal sxs.

 

But almost everyone on BB seems to think that benzos and withdrawing are the only things that effect our body, our psyche, our daily lives.  But not every anxious day, every nervous stomach, every sleepless night, every headache, etc, is related to your benzo use and benzo withdrawal.

 

Everyone of us was prescribed a benzo because we were suffering from some underlying condition or disorder.  And benzos did NOT cure any of those problems.  So it seems pretty likely that some folks still suffer from the original problem.

 

Many here have been or still are on other meds.  Many have ongoing personal/family/financial/professional problems.  And normal ("non-benzo") people get headaches, upset stomach, sleepless nights, etc, etc.

 

Just because you experience some symptom or conditiion during your taper does NOT mean it has to be a benzo related withdrawal symptom.

 

Builder - I'm interested in knowing what your opinion of my situation would be - per my sig. I did a much too fast taper and ended up reinstating (by accident, but thats a different or much longer story) Once i moved to Valium I once again tapered a little too quickly - I've updosed to try and stabilize while I try and hammer out some thyroid issues but I am symptomatic from my taper still - I know these are symptoms of benzo withdrawal because they completely subsided when I reinstated and crossed over.......(vision issues and arthritis in my fingers and toes and some chemical like terror when I awaken) - I can't imagine that I should up dose again but clearly my body or healing is not in line with my dose - is starting at a deficit a red flag for more and more problems?? My plan is to hold until I get my thyroid as close to worked out as possible and if they just can't get it right - I'll still plan to begin my Daily Micro in January........so I guess I'm asking if you would have advice for someone who is very well starting out at a deficit after a long hold followed by an up dose and then another long hold.....?? thank you!

[Guest [ba...]]

...though Builder once told me if you have to hold or updose often (I don't know what is considered often) then you are not tapering at a rate your body can keep up with. Right now I'm on a five year schedule which doesn't thrill me but I'm better than I was when I was pulling .1 ml per day

But we also know those who had to start really slow but were able to speed up as they reduced. Right? --V

 

The fundamental principal of tapering is that by gradually lowering our dose, we are trying to match the  rate we decrease the dosage to the rate at which the body can recover. So, obviously, it's possible to taper too fast, and experience WD sxs, and it's also possible to taper more slowly than necessary.  If you start slower than necessary, then certainly you could speed up, if you chose to.

 

Because of my previous failures with C&H, I chose a very slow rate when I started my daily taper.  I didn't try to speed up, but in retrospect, I feel certain I could have gone faster.  But other than taking longer to get off, there was absolutely no risk, no harm, by going unnecessarily slow.

 

If your taper rate doesn't not exceed your recovery (healing) rate, you should not experience significant withdrawal sxs.

 

But almost everyone on BB seems to think that benzos and withdrawing are the only things that effect our body, our psyche, our daily lives.  But not every anxious day, every nervous stomach, every sleepless night, every headache, etc, is related to your benzo use and benzo withdrawal.

 

Everyone of us was prescribed a benzo because we were suffering from some underlying condition or disorder.  And benzos did NOT cure any of those problems.  So it seems pretty likely that some folks still suffer from the original problem.

 

Many here have been or still are on other meds.  Many have ongoing personal/family/financial/professional problems.  And normal ("non-benzo") people get headaches, upset stomach, sleepless nights, etc, etc.

 

Just because you experience some symptom or conditiion during your taper does NOT mean it has to be a benzo related withdrawal symptom.

 

I'm not sure that I totally agree with your highlighted sentence about not experiencing significant withdrawal symptoms if one tapers slowly enough.  If one is at (or reaches) tolerance withdrawal, then they're going to feel withdrawal symptoms.  Probably not as badly as if they were tapering more rapidly, but they could very well feel something.  I had a lot of anxiety the last year or so that I took benzos without doing any tapering.  Then I c/t'd, but that's another story.

[[He...]]

Hi all! 9 mg as of today!  Dropped 4 mg in just under 4 months. The mt has been great for me.

 

I need to make my own liquid. The compounded one is just too expensive. I will use one of the old bottles, rinsed, and use 30 ml of H20 with 3 10 mg pills. I forget the amount of alcohol suggested to dissolve the pills prior to adding water. Can somone remind me or give me a link? Much appreciated! aloha, HM

[[jr...]]

I was prescribed Xanax to quit smoking. there was no underlying cause but that. the scripts kept coming for years and all seemed well until dec. 11 2014 when the xanax abruptly quit working. I went to my GP who immediately said I had panic disorder and GAD. He recommended I see a psychiatrist. The pdoc said I was depressed , so he added 2 AD's to the regimen. the pdoc is my only friend in this besides my family. the GP who originally prescribed the Xanax does not to this day have a clue about tolerance, withdrawals or tapers. So you see I had no underlying condition. My taper started in july 2015 and you can see from my sig where I am at. It has certainly not been a picnic.

I take a short acting benzo but I have found it stays in my system for about 5 days. When I hit a rough spot in the road , I go back to my notes and see what I did 5 days ago to cause the WDs. This has helped me immensely. Determine if you are on a short acting or long acting benzo and bite the bullet long enough to determine your personal lag time. Keep detailed notes to refer back to. I hope this helps someone and that we are all different, so be good to yourself foremost.

[[Pl...]]

SG, We are all pulling for you!!!! Please check in when you can.

 

Gard

 

SG.... I'm with Gard.... I had no idea my friend that you were struggling with a particular health issue.... I'm pulling for you too and thinking of you to get better fast and over this hump..... Healing vibes to you....

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

 

I think instinctively that after a month, My taper rate is too slow. I was going to wait til after holidays but tonight I'm raising from.030 to .0330 for 5 nites and increase to .035 until till after holidays.  Depending how I feel  Jan 1st. I will plan my next step. I took a low potency benzo,temazapam, and hopefully this will give me some room to experiment. Nows the time to raise the cut rate at this high amount of v.  Later I'm sure the decrease will happen. I feel I'm losing oportunity now to expell the valium from my body, even if it's really a small difference.  Any feedback would me appreciated.

 

 

IMO, there is no such thing as "...too slow". If you go "slower than necessary", it will take longer, but will never cause you any problems.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you from speeding up, just pointing out that there is no real necessity to go faster.

 

 

[[li...]]

Builder--the temptation to go faster AND slower is always there for people like me who are not having a symptomless/functional taper where holding and updosing hasn't worked. So many say "get off the poison" and while Id love to because I hate it, I know for me that going faster would make things MUCH worse. I pray that it's actually possible for me to heal on the way down. Hasn't been my experience so far but I've only removed less than 5% total in all of my "experiments" with long holds, changing dosing and slightly updosing in the course of the last 12 months. Just moving forward slowly praying for upregulation as I go.

[[li...]]

SG--praying for you and hoping you are okay!

[[Pl...]]

Builder--the temptation to go faster AND slower is always there for people like me who are not having a symptomless/functional taper where holding and updosing hasn't worked. So many say "get off the poison" and while Id love to because I hate it, I know for me that going faster would make things MUCH worse. I pray that it's actually possible for me to heal on the way down. Hasn't been my experience so far but I've only removed less than 5% total in all of my "experiments" with long holds, changing dosing and slightly updosing in the course of the last 12 months. Just moving forward slowly praying for upregulation as I go.

 

Lizagal... I haven't seen you in awhile here and I'm with you in your thoughts...as you know my situation is similar...

[[li...]]

Thinking of you too Please. We will make it!!

[[...]]

SG, We are all pulling for you!!!! Please check in when you can.

 

Gard

SG.... I'm with Gard.... I had no idea my friend that you were struggling with a particular health issue.... I'm pulling for you too and thinking of you to get better fast and over this hump..... Healing vibes to you....

 

Thanks PBH and Gard and everyone. It has nothing to do with benzos. I will remove the mystery - it's a kidney stone and it is too big to pass (5mm) so I am getting it shattered on Wednesday. They will use ultrasound so there will be no cutting, but it still requires anesthesia.

 

My life has been a living nightmare since Monday as I was not able to find a reasonable way to limit the pain, but yesterday at my pre-op physical I got an injection that worked. I now have that drug in pill form as well as a stronger narcotic pain killer, so hopefully these will get me to Wednesday. I can't wait. When the pain kicks in it makes my benzo problem seem like a walk in the park.

[[Pl...]]

SG, We are all pulling for you!!!! Please check in when you can.

 

Gard

SG.... I'm with Gard.... I had no idea my friend that you were struggling with a particular health issue.... I'm pulling for you too and thinking of you to get better fast and over this hump..... Healing vibes to you....

 

Thanks PBH and Gard and everyone. It has nothing to do with benzos. I will remove the mystery - it's a kidney stone and it is too big to pass (5mm) so I am getting it shattered on Wednesday. They will use ultrasound so there will be no cutting, but it still requires anesthesia.

 

My life has been a living nightmare since Monday as I was not able to find a reasonable way to limit the pain, but yesterday at my pre-op physical I got an injection that worked. I now have that drug in pill form as well as a stronger narcotic pain killer, so hopefully these will get me to Wednesday. I can't wait. When the pain kicks in it makes my benzo problem seem like a walk in the park.

 

Oh Sg... here you are helping us and going thru your own pain..... Thank you for being my hero!!!!

[[bu...]]

SG-

 

My deepest sympathy!!! :(

 

I had a 4.6 about 10 years ago and the pain was indescribable.  And I too was told I would have to wait 4 days for surgery.

 

Fortunately a very caring young doc at an immediate care facility intervened, and 1) hospitalized me so I could be put in heavy painkillers, and 2) pulled some strings and arranged surgery for the next day (a Sunday!)

 

I still wonder if that horrible experience is what initiated the onset of my severe GAD, and my adventure with diazepam.

[[ga...]]

Hi all! 9 mg as of today!  Dropped 4 mg in just under 4 months. The mt has been great for me.

 

I need to make my own liquid. The compounded one is just too expensive. I will use one of the old bottles, rinsed, and use 30 ml of H20 with 3 10 mg pills. I forget the amount of alcohol suggested to dissolve the pills prior to adding water. Can somone remind me or give me a link? Much appreciated! aloha, HM

 

Congrats, Healing!

 

Sorry, I don't know how much alcohol to dissolve V. 

 

Gard