Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ul...]]

I just restarted my daily microtaper a week ago, starting with removing only .001 mg out of the 1.21 mg of klonopin I was at after reinstatement, crashing, holding for six months, trying to change to three doses, back up to four doses and trying a small updose.  All has been extremely difficult.  I'm praying that it's true that we can heal as we go down.  I did two Ashton 20% a month cut and suffers 5 years ago and it was worse than this and I didn't start healing on the way down--quite the opposite, I thought I would never survive the insanity.  So I would love to hear from people who were horrible at the start and as they did a slow taper they got better.  Seems absolutely impossible.  I know everyone is different, but I need some hope to hold onto.  Bless you all

 

Liza, you've been through so much! I was definitely horrible at the start, but I didn't know about BB, MT, etc. I was on a high dose of K for 21 yrs (6+mg/day) as well as LOTS of cocktails along the way. I was way too sensitive to be able to MT much at all. I finally got down to 3mg of K each day, but even at that point I couldn't cut 1mL/day. It was just too much. It's just my opinion, but Ashton at 20% in one month, much less two, is horrendous. No wonder you were blasted!! BTW, if you're removing .001mg, isn't that 1mL of liquid? If yes (it was/is for me), then that's way too fast for a person who's been what you've been through. Again, that's just my opinion and experience, but what jumps out at me looking at your situation is that it sounds like your body could use a bit of a break/hold to get stabilized, and THEN begin the journey at a little slower pace until you're at the right pace for your body. Today, I'm lucky if I can cut 1/2mL in a day and then hold for a few days or whatever is needed. It just depends on what other stresses are going on in my life, and this year I've been nailed a lot with things such as a big surgery and a hurricane with evacuation, etc. But I will say that the MT process has been a lifesaver. It, along with SG and Builder and another person that I established a relationship with in and out of this forum has been priceless. Do what SG and Builder say, get the MT going after you get "settled in", and I think you'll see a big difference and do GREAT!! You have a better chance to "heal faster than you taper" if you get stable and find the right MT amount for your body and mind. Believe! Your body will follow what you mind believes. Good thoughts and good input go a long way. I don't post a lot, but I read this pretty often and keep up. You'll do great because of the great people here. Faith, baby!!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

I just restarted my daily microtaper a week ago, starting with removing only .001 mg out of the 1.21 mg of klonopin I was at after reinstatement, crashing, holding for six months, trying to change to three doses, back up to four doses and trying a small updose.  All has been extremely difficult.  I'm praying that it's true that we can heal as we go down.  I did two Ashton 20% a month cut and suffers 5 years ago and it was worse than this and I didn't start healing on the way down--quite the opposite, I thought I would never survive the insanity.  So I would love to hear from people who were horrible at the start and as they did a slow taper they got better.  Seems absolutely impossible.  I know everyone is different, but I need some hope to hold onto.  Bless you all

 

Liza, you've been through so much! I was definitely horrible at the start, but I didn't know about BB, MT, etc. I was on a high dose of K for 21 yrs (6+mg/day) as well as LOTS of cocktails along the way. I was way too sensitive to be able to MT much at all. I finally got down to 3mg of K each day, but even at that point I couldn't cut 1mL/day. It was just too much. It's just my opinion, but Ashton at 20% in one month, much less two, is horrendous. No wonder you were blasted!! BTW, if you're removing .001mg, isn't that 1mL of liquid? If yes (it was/is for me), then that's way too fast for a person who's been what you've been through. Again, that's just my opinion and experience, but what jumps out at me looking at your situation is that it sounds like your body could use a bit of a break/hold to get stabilized, and THEN begin the journey at a little slower pace until you're at the right pace for your body. Today, I'm lucky if I can cut 1/2mL in a day and then hold for a few days or whatever is needed. It just depends on what other stresses are going on in my life, and this year I've been nailed a lot with things such as a big surgery and a hurricane with evacuation, etc. But I will say that the MT process has been a lifesaver. It, along with SG and Builder and another person that I established a relationship with in and out of this forum has been priceless. Do what SG and Builder say, get the MT going after you get "settled in", and I think you'll see a big difference and do GREAT!! You have a better chance to "heal faster than you taper" if you get stable and find the right MT amount for your body and mind. Believe! Your body will follow what you mind believes. Good thoughts and good input go a long way. I don't post a lot, but I read this pretty often and keep up. You'll do great because of the great people here. Faith, baby!!

 

Jeff

 

:thumbsup:

 

(Hi, Jeff!)

[[ed...]]

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for the support.

 

I'm nervous because I'm already in withdrawal from an AD and in tolerance from the k, so I'm already getting withdrawal symptoms from both. Earlier this year my doctor made me drop 25% of my dose and I had a horrible withdrawal experience. I'm sure it won't be as bad this time because I'm micro tapering but the memories of the experience of both the CT from the AD and the benzo withdrawal earlier this year don't help with the nerves any. Going slow is the only reason I'm not freaking out about the taper Slow like the turtle wins the race!! I'm also hoping it will help with the tolerance withdrawal symptoms.

 

The only way out is through 

 

How are things going thus far?

 

Best,

Ed

[[no...]]

Hi  SG , Builder and Co at the moment I'm doing Cut and Hold again,but *may* have to revert back to pills + liquid as I did last year but unfortunately made barely any progress while doing MT over 17months  by taking 2mg pill form and putting 2mg into liquid to take a cut from. This time I am thinking about only putting 1mg of a 2mg pill in 100mls of liquid rather than a whole 2mg in 200mls liquid like last year as unfortunately I was given wrong advice regarding "pill weight'' and actual "dose per pill" by someone who turned out to be a  nasty piece of work who has since left the forum but that's another tale. 

 

Right now I am taking 3.45 in dry pills , and can't think straight to work out simple stuff at the moment once again  What I need to know is, obviously I will be taking 3 mg dry, but to take the same amount 00.45 in liquid am I right in thinking I have to remove 00.55 from 100mls to be taking the same 3.45 dose as I am taking in dry weight? Or do I need to make an allowance for the change from solid to liquid so I'm not going to end up taking less or more than I am now and having  even more problems?

 

Its possibly no matter what I do I'm still going to keep having a good arse kicking anyway  But I can't cut any smaller than 00.05 which I *think* would be equal to 5mls each in liquid cuts? and that's beating me up. I did cut by .25 (1/8) of my dose but found that too harsh hence to drop to 00.05 which works out at less than 5% of my dose now. And liquid will allow me to make much smaller cuts rather than larger ones over less time, and maybe cutting from 1mg in liquid rather than a whole 2mg might make a difference but I won't know unless I have to end up trying  it anyway.  Hope this post is not too confusing 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

Hi  SG , Builder and Co at the moment I'm doing Cut and Hold again,but *may* have to revert back to pills + liquid as I did last year but unfortunately made barely any progress while doing MT over 17months  by taking 2mg pill form and putting 2mg into liquid to take a cut from. This time I am thinking about only putting 1mg of a 2mg pill in 100mls of liquid rather than a whole 2mg in 200mls liquid like last year as unfortunately I was given wrong advice regarding "pill weight'' and actual "dose per pill" by someone who turned out to be a  nasty piece of work who has since left the forum but that's another tale. 

 

Right now I am taking 3.45 in dry pills , and can't think straight to work out simple stuff at the moment once again  What I need to know is, obviously I will be taking 3 mg dry, but to take the same amount 00.45 in liquid am I right in thinking I have to remove 00.55 from 100mls to be taking the same 3.45 dose as I am taking in dry weight? Or do I need to make an allowance for the change from solid to liquid so I'm not going to end up taking less or more than I am now and having  even more problems?

 

Its possibly no matter what I do I'm still going to keep having a good arse kicking anyway  But I can't cut any smaller than 00.05 which I *think* would be equal to 5mls each in liquid cuts? and that's beating me up. I did cut by .25 (1/8) of my dose but found that too harsh hence to drop to 00.05 which works out at less than 5% of my dose now. And liquid will allow me to make much smaller cuts rather than larger ones over less time, and maybe cutting from 1mg in liquid rather than a whole 2mg might make a difference but I won't know unless I have to end up trying  it anyway.  Hope this post is not too confusing 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

That all looks correct.  1mg in 100ml or 2mg in 200ml will both make a .01mg/ml liquid, so each ml would be .01mg V in both cases.  To get a dose of .45mg you'd drink 45ml.

[[no...]]

Hi  SG , Builder and Co at the moment I'm doing Cut and Hold again,but *may* have to revert back to pills + liquid as I did last year but unfortunately made barely any progress while doing MT over 17months  by taking 2mg pill form and putting 2mg into liquid to take a cut from. This time I am thinking about only putting 1mg of a 2mg pill in 100mls of liquid rather than a whole 2mg in 200mls liquid like last year as unfortunately I was given wrong advice regarding "pill weight'' and actual "dose per pill" by someone who turned out to be a  nasty piece of work who has since left the forum but that's another tale. 

 

Right now I am taking 3.45 in dry pills , and can't think straight to work out simple stuff at the moment once again  What I need to know is, obviously I will be taking 3 mg dry, but to take the same amount 00.45 in liquid am I right in thinking I have to remove 00.55 from 100mls to be taking the same 3.45 dose as I am taking in dry weight? Or do I need to make an allowance for the change from solid to liquid so I'm not going to end up taking less or more than I am now and having  even more problems?

 

Its possibly no matter what I do I'm still going to keep having a good arse kicking anyway  But I can't cut any smaller than 00.05 which I *think* would be equal to 5mls each in liquid cuts? and that's beating me up. I did cut by .25 (1/8) of my dose but found that too harsh hence to drop to 00.05 which works out at less than 5% of my dose now. And liquid will allow me to make much smaller cuts rather than larger ones over less time, and maybe cutting from 1mg in liquid rather than a whole 2mg might make a difference but I won't know unless I have to end up trying  it anyway.  Hope this post is not too confusing 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

That all looks correct.  1mg in 100ml or 2mg in 200ml will both make a .01mg/ml liquid, so each ml would be .01mg V in both cases.  To get a dose of .45mg you'd drink 45ml.

Thank you very much my main man!!!  How are you dong lately SG  Any improvement or are your sxs still the same ?

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[...]]

That all looks correct.  1mg in 100ml or 2mg in 200ml will both make a .01mg/ml liquid, so each ml would be .01mg V in both cases.  To get a dose of .45mg you'd drink 45ml.

Thank you very much my main man!!!  How are you dong lately SG  Any improvement or are your sxs still the same ?

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Aaghh, I passed 45 months free yesterday and I feel lousy.  All in all, including my taper, I have been very symptomatic for 75 months running.  I'm not really sure how I have managed to tolerate it all this time, but here I am.  Some days are better, some are worse.  I keep improving, but it is just soooo slow.  Since I never feel well I have changed my definition of what 'good' is...lower the bar...anything to survive.  I think next year will be when I turn a corner...of coarse I said that last year too.

[[be...]]

SG57, I am sorry you are not a 100% well, but I will tell you, in no uncertain terms you are "MY HERO", you help so many here that are willing to listen, and hope food for thought to those, that are so overwhelmed that they can not see that not rushing and taking their time will be the best solution. Thank you for giving of yourself, I truly believe it makes this all easier if we extend our hand to help one another. Only the Best to You.

[[ga...]]

SG, I'm sorry this has been hanging on so long. I get what you mean about setting the bar lower. I've decided to do that myself recently. I say, "This is just part of who I am," and then try to go on and have a life anyway rather than keep on the inner striving and longing for my old life. That works sometimes.

 

But, who knows. I see little signs of improvement, too, maybe this time next year we will both be so much better. 

 

Thanks for all you do here. You are a true warrior and a guru, too!  

 

Gard

[[no...]]

That all looks correct.  1mg in 100ml or 2mg in 200ml will both make a .01mg/ml liquid, so each ml would be .01mg V in both cases.  To get a dose of .45mg you'd drink 45ml.

Thank you very much my main man!!!  How are you dong lately SG  Any improvement or are your sxs still the same ?

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Aaghh, I passed 45 months free yesterday and I feel lousy.  All in all, including my taper, I have been very symptomatic for 75 months running.  I'm not really sure how I have managed to tolerate it all this time, but here I am.  Some days are better, some are worse.  I keep improving, but it is just soooo slow.  Since I never feel well I have changed my definition of what 'good' is...lower the bar...anything to survive.  I think next year will be when I turn a corner...of coarse I said that last year too.

Hi SG, I'm sorry your still  RAF  (rough as. F..) as we say here in Wales, I also think that a ''good'' time is any day I can get to the toilet, eat, and lay down with a bit less suffering than the usual every day for year's now, rolling around sayingv AAAARRGGHHHH!!!!!    Many People seem to think I was only on a small dose or not on the crap long man! I wish it was 36 months not year's on big dose and lots of poison besides different Benzos, and  its taken me year's to get to where I am now........ still fkd up 

 

Ah well! But I also know that what I perceive as not being able to do much, is a LOT compared to others on here  although I spend a lot of time and many days laying down just breathing, at least I get some sort of ease here and there. Such as today  is a bit better than the last 2 weeks which were non runners I spent laying down just breathing barely able to moan I felt so tragic, but boy am I grateful to get this break which no  doubt would probably be be someone else's really bad time Here in Nova land its an okay most of the day so far, I am really glad to have, it was definitely NOT earlier on today  though

 

Thanks you ssssoooo much for your generosity of spirit in all the help you give me and others on BB although you yourself are really suffering still 3 year's and 9 months later. I hope and pray you have a miracle turn around like another Buddy whose just written their success story  in the same time span off as yourself had just about given up when it all just went away. Just like that form hell to happy and well in a blink, its seriously and deeply unfathomable how this hell can tun around in a nano second either way with no warning, I  sincerely hope your turn too have a leap in healing is coming too

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Pl...]]

SG... I also want to thank you and wish so much good things to come your way as you help so many here.... I would not have been able to come as far as I have either without you....-pbh

[[Ma...]]

I would like to chime in on the wonders of SG. A person who has been in hell, and is still not 100%. Yet is committed to helping people (like me) not make the same mistakes. People that are stunned and desperate at the situation they are faced with.

 

SG saved me from:

 

1.  NOT Doing the cut and suffer ( cut and hold)

 

2. instead doing a daily micro taper

 

3. Educated me on this is NOT a race to the finish line, but an exercise in flying under the radar (slow taper rate) with the most minimal symptoms possible so your nervous system heals along the way.

 

4. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Benzo use causes nervous system damage. Tapering Benzo's incorrectly causes more sustained nervous system damage that can become permanent.

 

5. I also have to say "Builder" has reinforced these same concepts for me. Most of my communication has been with SG.

 

Thank you, SG

 

Write The SG Manual to replace the Ashton Manual.

 

 

[[St...]]

That's extremely positive,Builder.  I have to ask. What were the symptoms at 3.5. And how long did it last?  Also do you use any form of medical marj?

 

The worst symptom at 3.5 was tremors.  There were days I really couldn't even use a keyboard.  And my sleep problems were worse, and my anxiety was elevated.  It really lasted until I did the small updose, then it took about 5 days for the updose to kick in.  After that, I was OK. 

 

The only adjunct meds I used during my taper was doxylamine or remeron for sleep.

 

This is an old post, I know, but I'm catching up on some threads. When you say you used remeron for sleep did you use it as needed or nightly? Insomnia is pretty much my worst starting symptom whenever things get bad for me. I'd love to have a low-sx taper and end like you, but I just don't know if it's possible. I'm wondering if part of that is because my sleep is so bad. Thus my question.

[[...]]

Thanks all, for the support and kind words.

[Guest [ba...]]

Thanks all, for the support and kind words.

 

If all those nice comments didn't release a few endorphins, nothing will.  Hope you get to feeling better soon SG! 

[[St...]]

Haven't been on here for a bit, but I too join the others and wish much improved health for you soon SG!

 

[[Ma...]]

This has been a new worry.  So here it is.  Took temazapam for over 20 years  never took full dose of 30 mg. Usually 15 or 1/2 of 15. Just reached tolerance when I kept dose at 30 for about 3 months. In summer

 

Now I am on a 10.4 mg valium doing liquid mt.  Is tolerance possible.  Has this happened. Or does the fact you are reducing every day prevent this?

[[Le...]]

Thanks all, for the support and kind words.

SG, you are and have been the light that guides so many towards healing...may full recovery and healing descend upon you soon. 

[[fi...]]

Thanks all, for the support and kind words.

SG, you are and have been the light that guides so many towards healing...may full recovery and healing descend upon you soon. 

 

I'll second this and say that I know in my heart that healing is in fact headed your way, SG -  :smitten:

 

 

[[jr...]]

SG has helped me time and again in my taper. He made all my foolish questions seem sensible. I hope you do indeed turn the corner in your healing. Thanks for all you do!

[[Ma...]]

Happy Sunday.

 

Hope everyone can carve out some peace, fun or joy today.

 

I plan on going to the park but first I decided to prepare a weeks solution in 7 pre measured  jars.  It stresses  me every time I do it.  I say " how did I get myself into this".  Anyway. Storage ..read refrigerating can disintegrate water valium vodka solution. Should I refrigerate jars or store on a open shelf unrefrigerated. Thanks

[[Ma...]]

Also could someone please respond to my question I posted on Saturday.

 

Thanks

[[ed...]]

I've read lots of people who said they kept their Liquid Valium/water solution at room temperature.

[[fi...]]

Also could someone please respond to my question I posted on Saturday.

 

Thanks

 

What was your question Saturday again? might be easier to post again??

 

(((HUGS)))

[[ed...]]

Also could someone please respond to my question I posted on Saturday.

 

Thanks

 

What was your question Saturday again? might be easier to post again??

 

(((HUGS)))

 

Maybe about the tolerance? If that's the question, I was in tolerance from the very beginning of the taper. That's how I knew it was time to get off.