Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Pl...]]

I'm not k-girl, but I think that ideally one finds a rate to taper that the body can handle and then you taper at the rate.  Problem is that nobody knows what that rate is for their body.  And the rate could very well change.  So it's trial and error with symptoms as the only guide, and symptoms may not really be an indicator of the optimal rate of tapering.

 

Pleasebehere: I meant what Badsocref said - find your rhythm and keep at it. I did a cut/cut/cut/hold off of the Valium.  So yes, you do build in holds in your micro taper but IMHO you don't hold for a long period of time.  And as Badsocref said the problem everyone has  is to find their own rate which may have to change as you go down.

 

Okay.....thank you both... I see what your saying....( ithink)like you said in the example, you could do a cut/cut/cut/ and hold for maybe a day or even 2days or whatever then start again? something along those lines?

[[Kg...]]

Pleasebehere: Yes - you can even do c/h/h/h or whatever you want to do -  just find your own pace.

[[bu...]]

[

 

Kgirl... I am confused..... Are you saying it is better to find a rhythm and not hold ?  I get very confused about this..... I am liquid daily microtapering and can't stand the thought of holding at all but not sure whether to incorporate a day here and there  into the rhythym because they say it catches up with you...any opinions please welcome..... This drug is making me very sick...

 

 

Thank you all and bless you.....

 

The whole concept of a daily microtaper is you are able to match your cut rate to your recovery ("healing") rate.  If you are following an appropriate cut rate, no hold should be needed.  There is nothing to "catch up with you".

 

Even if you are cutting too quickly, the sxs will not suddenly overwhelm you, like they do with a C&H taper.  If you do feel an onset of sxs, then you can hold (or updose) at that time.

[[Pl...]]

Pleasebehere: Yes - you can even do c/h/h/h or whatever you want to do -  just find your own pace.

 

Thank you so much kgirl.... That's the hardest part is figuring out...thank you so so much for being here ((( hugs)))

 

On another note, I've been having huge adrenaline surges in the morning which give me all over internal and outside body tremors..all over my body and teeth chattering....., they are very severe..., I'm assuming it is adrenaline ? 

 

Builder or anyone I believe you stated that propornol (not sure how to spell) worked for you? I believe another name for that is Inderal?  This would help me out immensely if it is used for that purpose..... a beta blocker as needed.... I worry as I know beta blockers cause dizziness and I already have that....that part really concerns me....

 

Are there any beta blockers better then others?

 

My blood pressure is on the normal to low side but  I have tachchardia .... I could always take the lowest dose and even take just a quarter of that just to see... May be that is all I would need... Of course this would have to be run by my dr......

 

I just can't handle the all over body tremors anymore especially the worst in the morning... This has to be adrenaline what else would cause this? I don't understand the mechanism.... Meaning if its not adrenaline I guess a beta blocker wouldn't work?

 

I noticed the lower I'm getting in dose I'm seeing signs of this up ticking stopping upticking then stopping and on and on.... Very strange...

 

Any comments appreciated... Thank you....

[[Pl...]]

[

 

Kgirl... I am confused..... Are you saying it is better to find a rhythm and not hold ?  I get very confused about this..... I am liquid daily microtapering and can't stand the thought of holding at all but not sure whether to incorporate a day here and there  into the rhythym because they say it catches up with you...any opinions please welcome..... This drug is making me very sick...

 

 

Thank you all and bless you.....

 

The whole concept of a daily microtaper is you are able to match your cut rate to your recovery ("healing") rate.  If you are following an appropriate cut rate, no hold should be needed.  There is nothing to "catch up with you".

 

Even if you are cutting too quickly, the sxs will not suddenly overwhelm you, like they do with a C&H taper.  If you do feel an onset of sxs, then you can hold (or updose) at that time.

 

Unfortunately builder, I'm kindled so I never had a normal baseline to begin with and its been very hard for me to determine what is what..... Left over ativan garbage or k stuff? I mean the sxs are severe....although I have seen some changes... Some for the worse... Some for the better even in just the past few days...

 

That's why it's so difficult for me to know how to proceed.....

 

Even if I can get one thing under control such as the tremors that would be a huge help to keep me going....

 

Any suggestions are very welcome and I thank you.. :'(

[[Ma...]]

I have decided on a micro taper plan. I would like feedback... This is for 10 mg of valium. Temazapam was the only benzo I  have taken but usage was many years.

 

This would be phase 1, at higher doses:

I want to take 1/2 dose 5mg dry and drop other 1/2 (5mg) mixed with 80 proof vodka and water. I really am used to the spread sheet provided. (used in crossover and it is comforting to me) So this is what I've come up with; I welcome any feedback, If this is too fast, slow ect. What holds should I incorporate?

 

200 ML of water 2 Ml increments, .05 daily drop. .50% daily drop with a 6.53% 2 week drop. 20 days to drop a mg (This is only for 10 to 9 to see how it goes)  If you think this rate is too fast and  will cause problems let me know please . In researching obsessively for the last 30 days, this microtaper process seems so much smoother than "cut and suffer". 

 

 

[[Kg...]]

Pleasebehere: I had the morning tremors as well - every single morning for quite awhile plus b/room rooms which were non stop. What to do?  I found that getting up and moving around was the answer for me - eating something and then a hot shower.  I still got it every morning but a least I knew it would go away.  I personally did not want to take other medications to deal with the s/x of my benzo withdrawal.  So what you are experiencing is 'normal' in this crazy benzo world. 

 

Sorry Magnolis I don't do any math. 

[[Pl...]]

Pleasebehere: I had the morning tremors as well - every single morning for quite awhile plus b/room rooms which were non stop. What to do?  I found that getting up and moving around was the answer for me - eating something and then a hot shower.  I still got it every morning but a least I knew it would go away.  I personally did not want to take other medications to deal with the s/x of my benzo withdrawal.  So what you are experiencing is 'normal' in this crazy benzo world. 

 

Sorry Magnolis I don't do any math.

 

I don't like the idea of taking other meds either.....plus my blood pressure has been on the low side for a long time now.... I don't think it would work because of that.....though I was so desperate for finding something curtail it....

 

Kgirl I have severe fatigue so my ability to shower has been pretty bad.......I am lucky to walk to the bathroom and then the couch.....it literally feels as if my nervous system is collapsing underneath me and my body can't hold me up sometimes....

 

I'm frightened .....

 

I thank you sincerely for your kindness and warmth of your responses.....it means everything when you feel such hopelessness....

[[ga...]]

Thank you Gard; I had no idea what this could do to someone....Ct'd off Lex about a month ago and emotions all over the place. How would I know it's okay to go forward and when?

 

Cope, I think you should add your experience with Lexapro to your signature. That could certainly be affecting you. Have you tried survivingantidepressants.org? It sounds like you need some support for what the Lexapro did to you.

 

Gard

 

P.S. Just noticed you over on Long Hold and will respond over there.

[[He...]]

Hi all, @ Magnolis: what you describe is what I'm doing. I can't check your math but using a .5 ml syringe and liquid 1 ml=1mg and pills, I drop .05 ml on the syringe each day of my liquid which comes out to about 1 mg every 20 days. That is for 1 mg of V: the rest I take in pills. I just have to put the number each day on my calendar because I forget where I was sometimes the day before. Do get extra syringes, as they're not meant for repeat use and the writing wears off after awhile. I think once you start using this, it will be easier than looking at a spreadsheet. I've dropped almost 3 mg now in just over 3 months. Held a couple of times and had a slow start due to the doctor's vague explanation. The b-doc suggested this rate and said that some people taper at a half of that rate.

 

@pleasebehere: it sounds like glutamate surges in the morning. I use a mounded 1/4 teaspoon of cream of tartar at night around the time of dosing. I read somewhere of a member who used it to combat glutamate surges brought on by eating foods high in MSG. She said she would take 1/4 teaspoon and the anxiety would go away. I was waking with mild morning anxiety, so I decided to use it daily and I believe it helps. About a month ago I ate a prepared food which I think had MSG and I felt some anxiety; took the cream of tartar and it backed off. I hope this will help you. It may be a sign of your brain healing, but also you shouldn't have to suffer so much. BTW I found out later that cream of tartar is potassium. You can buy it in cooking supply stores in larger sizes, like Smart N Final in the US. Really hope you feel better; panic attacks are rotten. My b-doc did mention something like propanol (maybe propranolol), he said it was an older antidepressant (good sign) and was to be used only as needed for anxiety. I told him I'd let him know if it got stronger at some point. Sending good energy, HM  :smitten:

[[Pl...]]

Hi all, @ Magnolis: what you describe is what I'm doing. I can't check your math but using a .5 ml syringe and liquid 1 ml=1mg and pills, I drop .05 ml on the syringe each day of my liquid which comes out to about 1 mg every 20 days. That is for 1 mg of V: the rest I take in pills. I just have to put the number each day on my calendar because I forget where I was sometimes the day before. Do get extra syringes, as they're not meant for repeat use and the writing wears off after awhile. I think once you start using this, it will be easier than looking at a spreadsheet. I've dropped almost 3 mg now in just over 3 months. Held a couple of times and had a slow start due to the doctor's vague explanation. The b-doc suggested this rate and said that some people taper at a half of that rate.

 

@pleasebehere: it sounds like glutamate surges in the morning. I use a mounded 1/4 teaspoon of cream of tartar at night around the time of dosing. I read somewhere of a member who used it to combat glutamate surges brought on by eating foods high in MSG. She said she would take 1/4 teaspoon and the anxiety would go away. I was waking with mild morning anxiety, so I decided to use it daily and I believe it helps. About a month ago I ate a prepared food which I think had MSG and I felt some anxiety; took the cream of tartar and it backed off. I hope this will help you. It may be a sign of your brain healing, but also you shouldn't have to suffer so much. BTW I found out later that cream of tartar is potassium. You can buy it in cooking supply stores in larger sizes, like Smart N Final in the US. Really hope you feel better; panic attacks are rotten. My b-doc did mention something like propanol (maybe propranolol), he said it was an older antidepressant (good sign) and was to be used only as needed for anxiety. I told him I'd let him know if it got stronger at some point. Sending good energy, HM  :smitten:

 

Cream of tartar... That's so interesting!  Ill try it......thank you very much....

 

Right now my eye just shut closed and my mouth started contorting in different directions.... this has been one of my biggest  issues for awhile.. They were starting to die down now its coming back....

 

Do you know anything about this?  Its the tardive dyskenesia thing again.... Anxiety thru the roof .....

[[Ma...]]

Hi all, @ Magnolis: what you describe is what I'm doing. I can't check your math but using a .5 ml syringe and liquid 1 ml=1mg and pills, I drop .05 ml on the syringe each day of my liquid which comes out to about 1 mg every 20 days. That is for 1 mg of V: the rest I take in pills. I just have to put the number each day on my calendar because I forget where I was sometimes the day before. Do get extra syringes, as they're not meant for repeat use and the writing wears off after awhile. I think once you start using this, it will be easier than looking at a spreadsheet. I've dropped almost 3 mg now in just over 3 months. Held a couple of times and had a slow start due to the doctor's vague explanation. The b-doc suggested this rate and said that some people taper at a half of that rate.

 

Thank you... You made my day,!!!.....Have you had symptoms?  Have you had to hold?

 

.I know to be safe I should go .25 but I want to try this at the higher dose 10mg v. I got this formula from using the water titration spreadsheet.  So I drop 5 mg in  200 ml of water ( do you mix pill with vodka) and take out 2 ml , next day 4, , next day 6.  Is that what you are doing...  It takes 20 days.  for 1 mg.  Ill slow up if I have to.  do you have a schedule for the hold like 4 days on one day off?

[[Ma...]]

Please be here:

 

is your taper for Valium or K?  Cant tell from your signature. Would that make a difference as I have had no experience with K?

[[Pl...]]

Please be here:

 

is your taper for Valium or K?  Cant tell from your signature. Would that make a difference as I have had no experience with K?

 

Hi m... It was initially ativan.....then reinstated unto generic kolonopin.....

[[Pl...]]

Pleasebehere: I had the morning tremors as well - every single morning for quite awhile plus b/room rooms which were non stop. What to do?  I found that getting up and moving around was the answer for me - eating something and then a hot shower.  I still got it every morning but a least I knew it would go away.  I personally did not want to take other medications to deal with the s/x of my benzo withdrawal.  So what you are experiencing is 'normal' in this crazy benzo world. 

 

Sorry Magnolis I don't do any math.

 

Hi kgirl....I responded back to you on this post but forgot to ask you what you meant by b/room?  Also , my stupid brain forgot to ask, when you had the outside tremors did you have them al over like visibly in your arms legs ....oh and did you get internal vibrations too?

 

Thank you always so much for sharing your experience and trying to help out others....there's comfort in knowing you're not alone... Bless you...

[[Kg...]]

Pleasebehere: B/room is bathroom - many runs (not rooms) to it in the morning.  Yes I had visible shakes - legs and arms but mostly legs.  Internal ones too - and also burning skin and muscle aches which really do hurt.  The shakes are for the most part gone the muscle aches still plague me as does the burning skin.  This is a long process towards full healing and I did not expect to be s/x free after jumping.  It is better than what it was before.  Just take this one day at a time there is no short cut to doing this- the only way out is through. 

[Guest [ha...]]

Can anyone help me with a taper? I have a scale...not sure what to do next

[[Ma...]]

I began my liquid micro taper last night.  THANK YOU SG57. Your responses to my questions are a godsend now. This illustrates how imperative being a member of this support group is. When members give back and help people like me (new to this) it is a true calling. And I feel immense gratitude  for this support.

 

Now. My questions could help others beginning microtaper so.

 

1. I know this is not a linear process. I am starting at 11 mg v with a .03 daily reduction. So obviously if symptoms arise  I would go slower. I'm sure this happens at the end or does micro taper allow a stable rate throughout duration?

 

2.  If i should be blessed and feel no symptoms. Do people ever adjust upward?

 

Thank you!?

[[He...]]

Hi all! [glow=red,2,300]10 mg today!![/glow]  I do have mild sx which vary. Today my eyes are blurry. Astigmatism; I can only assume that it causes my lenses to change shape. I mean, I can see OK except for reading the smaller print or like magazine print. Keep blinking. Hey, that's a "cadillac problem" as we'd say in AA. The other sx are sort of background.

 

@magnolis: glad you got what you needed and finally started your mt. I believe you will find it fine at that rate if you're like me. In answer to your questions, my sx only came on stronger once, and I held for 3 days. It was not serious. I did hold for a couple weeks due to a strong cold which was with me for almost a month; finally I just held to help heal. Otherwise I am doing well. My sx have not been worse at any time than when I tried the Ashton protocol back in 2013. That was severe and took months to get back to a baseline which included tolerance w/d. In fact the tolerance w/d was worse than during this taper except for that 3-day period. Times of extra stress can tire us out and bring it on, so I pace myself as carefully as I can. Oh, re the liquid: I've been getting it Rx from a compounding pharmacy but I'm going to use the vodka/water and pills because I need the $$ and Rx liquid is lots of $$! I have extra 10 mg pills, need to contact doc for 5's. So I can make my own. At 'way lower doses I may go back to the compounded but may not need to.

 

@Pleasebehere: so sorry you're having the tardive dyskenisia (sp) I did work in mental health for awhile and looked at some of those drugs. I suspect the Paxil and AD's. Could be a combo of all. Your nervous system is over-firing. My dream is for all psychiatrists to spend one hour experiencing w/d sx from these drugs. It would change the face of psychiatry. I so wish I had a solution for this. Hope it stops soon. Hugs, HM

[[ga...]]

Can anyone help me with a taper? I have a scale...not sure what to do next

 

Cope, Excuse the brain fog, but didn't you post you had recently stopped an SSRI and were having really bad symptoms? I'm not one of the math gurus, so I can't figure out the cuts, but if I were in your shoes, I would let my symptoms settle down a bit before starting up with another med. In fact, that's what I'm doing right now, waiting for my Q cuts to settle down before starting my L cuts. I don't want to pile suffering on top of suffering. At least not to the point that I know I can't deal with it. But that's something we each have to decide, how much we can deal with.

 

Pardon me if I am mixing you up with someone else.

 

Gard

[Guest [ha...]]

You have the right person Gard....I guess I'm just ready to start this b/c I've had no end to the suffering

[[Ma...]]

Healing me:

 

Thank you for your comments. My perpetual sense of dread has slightly been lifted because of the support of this group.  I am so grateful you all are here and I'm not alone.My family and friends give me the glazed over "oh no here she goes again" look. So i am withdrawing a little.No. Alot! I feel very confident that the liquid mt is the way to go.  You and i are close to the same dose. I am also mixing my own.

[[ga...]]

You have the right person Gard....I guess I'm just ready to start this b/c I've had no end to the suffering

 

Well, I hear you on that. It's a tough decision but sometimes a person just has to go forward and get it over with. I would suggest going forward very slowly, though. Pay attention to your symptoms and adjust to what your body is telling you.

 

I used to dry cut a med. I used a very, very thin knife from an Asian food store. Thin like a filet knife. I put the scale on the same very level, very stable kitchen counter in the same place every time. No dishwasher running. No ventilation blowing. Always carefully calibrated the scale until it was exactly right. I hated cutting the darn little pill. I used to beg my son to do it for me. He was patient and good at it. When he moved out, I decided I couldn't do the cutting any more and switched to liquid. It took a bit to learn it, but I find it much, much easier now.

 

I would suggest you start with 5%/month and see how you feel. Hopefully one of the math gurus will help you figure out how much that would be per day. I know they are going to want to know how much your pill weighs. It's going to weigh  a lot more than the med because most of it will be binders and fillers.

 

Gard

[Guest [ha...]]

Thank you Gard...I appreciate the support.

[[He...]]

Hey gang thanks for yet again no congratulations on my 10 mg milestone. Wow. HM