Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[la...]]

  Liza, I am SO sick it is really hard to determine if I have any subtle changes. I would say I am NO better and NO worse  as of yet

 

I started cutting again in July 

 

I tried MT for a month and never felt any better so I gave up on it...but may go back to it after 4 mgs.

 

three friends I have made here (Kgirl being one of them) all MT.. One of them (Gilster) has gotten off as of today  she started tapering in Dec 2015!!!  from 1.5mg Kpin!!!!  She was determined.

 

the last one Rosegal, is almost finished...shes been at this for a couple years with changing and stopping etc...but all three are WAY better off then I am

 

 

[[Kg...]]

Just a quick note Nomo and Gilster are now off of the K - they both had very tough tapers but if you read their buddy blogs they felt much better on the lower doses than when they started their tapers. The same is true for Rose who is also just about done.  I think for many of us we had to choose between feeling awful - and keep going - or staying on and feeling awful and sometimes even worse.  What I will say to all who are reading this that though I still have ups and down I feel so much better off of the drug than on it.  Looking back I should never have stopped my 1st taper and held and gone up and then tried and tried again. If I had just kept going like I had to do with this last taper I would have been done years before and on my way to full and complete healing. I truly believe Ashton is correct that the only way to fully heal is to be off. 

[[li...]]

Thanks Lainey and Kgirl. I'm really terrified because I've never felt better tapering so I can't believe it's possible. But I'm moving forward. I'm starting to think going 2% a month, while it kept me "stable" I was still pretty nonfunctional. That would take like six years to get off. I took 5 months to get off only .5 mg years ago in an Ashton cut and hold and it was horrid and I was hallucinating and hysterical for six months and it took me another six months to be able to drive and 3 1/2 years out my brain was still not healed. So I have no idea how fast or slow to go. Why do so many say they felt better going down but that's not considered healing?  Believe me I don't want to do this one more day than I have to but I was minutes from ending it all when I was forced to reinstate two years ago after being given a non-Benzo med that threw me back into withdrawal. I want off but I'm on the edge of insanity every day and pray that going lower faster will help vs throwing me back into more hell.

[[He...]]

Just a quick note Nomo and Gilster are now off of the K - they both had very tough tapers but if you read their buddy blogs they felt much better on the lower doses than when they started their tapers. The same is true for Rose who is also just about done.  I think for many of us we had to choose between feeling awful - and keep going - or staying on and feeling awful and sometimes even worse.  What I will say to all who are reading this that though I still have ups and down I feel so much better off of the drug than on it.  Looking back I should never have stopped my 1st taper and held and gone up and then tried and tried again. If I had just kept going like I had to do with this last taper I would have been done years before and on my way to full and complete healing. I truly believe Ashton is correct that the only way to fully heal is to be off.

 

Hi all, Kgirl this is the type of post which keeps me optimistic. I did just hold for about 2 weeks due to a cold which kept hanging on, finally decided to hold a bit. And I will still do this as so far, it has helped and I can resume OK. I'll have dropped 3 mg in as many months which I didn't think was possible.

 

@ laineyk, so sorry you're having such difficulty. I found a lot of help in spiritual practice when I was in bad w/d.

 

For those who are eating organic, etc., I found out for myself that I needed to refine my diet to my blood type. Mostly I'd gravitated to that over my lifetime, but there were a few tweaks which made huge changes in Sx which I thought were due to benzo w/d. I have to drink fresh carrot/beet/celery juice daily, that for me is key. Try reading Eat Right for your Blood Type. I too attempt to eat as much organic as possible and buy clean water. There are also You Tube vids on blood type diet if you just want to check it out. I don't even "know" my type but looking at the vids, I knew by my own preferences and by the foods which made me feel uncomfortable after eating. It was hard to change my diet but SO worth it. HM

[[Sh...]]

Just want to jump in after seeing KGirl's post. I was also feeling really rough but decided to keep going downwards. After I got to 2mg valium my mental sfxs got really bad but decided it was time to get off. Spent the next 3 months cut n holding which was so tough but I got through it and have been off for 4 months now. I'm getting better.

[[ka...]]

love the encouragment!! thanks from those of us who are inching down and feeling it (sucking wind). Congrats!!!!  We will make it  & meet you at the finish line for the victory lap, walk, tiptoe, carried.... how ever you get across.

[[ar...]]

My 3 month benzo free thread.  I hope all is well for everyone.  Some of you might remember me...hopefully. 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=167215.0

[[ed...]]

Congrats to both Shamo and Arcade!  We look forward to meeting up with you on the other side!  :thumbsup:

 

Best,

Ed

[[ga...]]

My 3 month benzo free thread.  I hope all is well for everyone.  Some of you might remember me...hopefully. 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=167215.0

 

Thanks, arcade!

[[cr...]]

Of course, I remember you, arcade.  Thanks for checking in.  Cross

[Guest [ha...]]

Would anyone mind giving me a run down on how to micro taper; can be a short version...still holding at .5...and withdrawing from lexapro-doctor ct'd at 40 to 10 to nothing...

[[ga...]]

Hi Cope, I don't do math, but I can give you the general idea.

 

People either dry cut with a milligram scale or dissolve and dilute their med.

 

They decide how much they want to cut per month. Maybe they decide 10% of their dose. Figure out what 10% of the dose is, then divide that by 30 days. Cut that tiny amount every day. That's why you need a milligram scale or a very dilute solution. You are making very small cuts.

 

I personally dissolve my med (open the 5mg capsule and dump it in a jar with a tight lid and add vodka, let it sit about 15 minutes) and then add water to dilute it to 100ml. Shake it up. I use a graduated cylinder for the water part and oral syringes for the vodka part. I bought them on amazon and watched youtube videos about how to use them properly.

 

So now I have turned 5mg of med into 100ml of liquid. Using oral syringes, I can make very small changes to my dose every day. For example, take 100ml on day one, take 99ml on day two, take 98ml on day three, etc. (That's just an example I pulled out of thin air. Don't follow it!)

 

Some people will make these cuts for two weeks or so and then hold for a week to give their brains time to catch up and heal. I wish I had used that method when I started. I have been holding for a very long time and plan to use that method when I start up again soon.

 

I'll let SG or builder fill in the details for you. I only know how to do this with Librium and my benzo-brain math is awful. You can also ask about this on the liquid titration thread. Lots of microtaperers and math gurus over there.

 

Good luck!

 

Gard

 

[Guest [ha...]]

Thank you gardener...feel like I'm drowning...I'll see what I can do to get started..

[[bu...]]

Would anyone mind giving me a run down on how to micro taper; can be a short version...still holding at .5...and withdrawing from -doctor ct'd at 40 to 10 to nothing...

 

1) Decide on a c cut rate.  Ex: 10% every 14 days

 

2) Calculate daily cuts.  Ex: 10%X.5mg=.05mg...  .05/14 days=.0035mg/day

 

3)  Subtract the daily cut amt from the previous dose.  Ex:

 

.5-.0035=.4965

.4965-.0035=.493

.493-.0035=.4895

.4895-.0035=.486

 

etc...

[[ga...]]

Believe me, Cope, I know the feeling. It was all overwhelming when I started. Lots of people held my hand and explained over and over. I call them the "gurus." They will help you, too, even if you ask again and again.

 

First decision is to dry cut or dissolve. Personally, I hated dry cutting and trying to weigh those tiny pieces. Totally stressed me out, but others like it.

 

Here's a cut-and-paste of a post I made ages ago in my progress log. It shows what I was using at that time along with the amazon link. You won't necessarily need all this stuff. For example, I was dosing Xanax 6 times/day so needed those tiny bottles for holding all the doses.

 

 

Supplies for Dilution and Titration

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. I now put clear tape over the marks to keep them from wearing off. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

30ml (very small) amber bottles with rubber seals so they don't leak. Good for carrying a small dose that is too big to fit in a syringe. Also less scary-looking than a syringe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

10ml syringes that I find hard to use for measuring meds but are good for carrying a small amount of water to use for rinsing the tiny bottles after dosing (and drinking the rinse water to be sure nothing is left behind). These also come with caps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OABXLOM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

100ml amber glass jar for storing dilution.* Holds 100ml but very close to top of jar. Not good for shaking. It will leak. Nice wide top makes it easy to draw out a dose with your syringe. Nice wide top allows bits of dust to fall in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

100ml graduated cylinder

http://www.amazon.com/213I12-Karter-Scientific-Graduated-Cylinder/dp/B006UKIASI/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09M84H793FJXQYDY00F7

 

*You can also just use something like a canning jar and store it out of the light. I bought amber because I kept mine on the counter quite a bit.

 

[[ga...]]

Cope, what is dissolvable Clonazepam that you mention in your signature? Builder or SG can help you with dissolving if they know what you are using.

 

Also, good that you are holding and waiting to feel more stable. You might want to check out the Long Hold support group if you need advice about holding after a crash. Lots of people there are or have been where you are, including me.

 

Hugs,

 

Gard

[Guest [ha...]]

Gard...I was prescribed like a dissolvable clonazepam pill to take that would have gotten me off in 8 weeks...I've held b/c I was trying to get on an ssri to help make the way down easier but if backfired; had terrible reaction to it..

[[ga...]]

I had a horrible adverse reaction to an SSRI many years ago. I think you have had quite a shock to your system. You might go visit the Long Hold group for advice about recovering from this. Valley and others are quite a help. They have been through the wringer, too.

 

BTW, I still have no idea what dissolvable clonazepam is. Maybe one of the gurus knows.

[Guest [ha...]]

Thank you Gard; I had no idea what this could do to someone....Ct'd off Lex about a month ago and emotions all over the place. How would I know it's okay to go forward and when?

[[ka...]]

I see by your sig that prayers are welcomed, if you have not already - please check out the faith based support thread. Great group of people!!

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=66.0 

[Guest [ha...]]

Thank you Kasey

[Guest [ba...]]

BTW, I still have no idea what dissolvable clonazepam is. Maybe one of the gurus knows.

 

The 'orally dissolvable' pills will dissolve in your mouth.  I'm pretty sure that you use them just like a normal pill for a liquid taper.

[[Pl...]]

Just a quick note Nomo and Gilster are now off of the K - they both had very tough tapers but if you read their buddy blogs they felt much better on the lower doses than when they started their tapers. The same is true for Rose who is also just about done.  I think for many of us we had to choose between feeling awful - and keep going - or staying on and feeling awful and sometimes even worse.  What I will say to all who are reading this that though I still have ups and down I feel so much better off of the drug than on it.  Looking back I should never have stopped my 1st taper and held and gone up and then tried and tried again. If I had just kept going like I had to do with this last taper I would have been done years before and on my way to full and complete healing. I truly believe Ashton is correct that the only way to fully heal is to be off.

 

Kgirl... I am confused..... Are you saying it is better to find a rhythm and not hold ?  I get very confused about this..... I am liquid daily microtapering and can't stand the thought of holding at all but not sure whether to incorporate a day here and there  into the rhythym because they say it catches up with you...any opinions please welcome..... This drug is making me very sick...

 

I don't know how to do this..... I started out very fast for me but am now looking to start out very slow and pray that I can eventually increase...

 

If while you are tapering and you get an increase in something I now never hold... I will just decrease what I take out the next day and then increase it again if I'm able...

 

Would you be so kind as to explain how you did this?

 

Thank you all and bless you.....

[Guest [ba...]]

I'm not k-girl, but I think that ideally one finds a rate to taper that the body can handle and then you taper at the rate.  Problem is that nobody knows what that rate is for their body.  And the rate could very well change.  So it's trial and error with symptoms as the only guide, and symptoms may not really be an indicator of the optimal rate of tapering.

[[Kg...]]

I'm not k-girl, but I think that ideally one finds a rate to taper that the body can handle and then you taper at the rate.  Problem is that nobody knows what that rate is for their body.  And the rate could very well change.  So it's trial and error with symptoms as the only guide, and symptoms may not really be an indicator of the optimal rate of tapering.

 

Pleasebehere: I meant what Badsocref said - find your rhythm and keep at it. I did a cut/cut/cut/hold off of the Valium.  So yes, you do build in holds in your micro taper but IMHO you don't hold for a long period of time.  And as Badsocref said the problem everyone has  is to find their own rate which may have to change as you go down.