Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

How can you tell if your body won't tolerate liquid?

 

I just started liquifiying my clonazepam and moving it around so I will be taking three doses a day eight hours apart. At first I had horrible anxiety, then I got a week long window, and now I'm back to horrible anxiety for a little over a week.

 

Thanks

[Guest [ba...]]

Dear Nova,

 

As far as pill weights go, I'm not incorrect here. My pills weigh 160 MILLIGRAMS on average. Within that 160 MG are 2 MG of medicine. This means that for every MG of PILL WEIGHT there are 125 micrograms of medicine.  Because I am weighing out the pill, which weighs 160MG and not weighing the 2MG of active ingredient contained within, it is very reasonable to expect an inexpensive scale to be off by a couple of MGs.

 

Ed - you're off by a decimal point.  1 mg of your pill weight equates with 12.5 micrograms of medicine.  2/160 = 0.0125 mg or 12.5 µg.

[[ed...]]

Dear Nova,

 

As far as pill weights go, I'm not incorrect here. My pills weigh 160 MILLIGRAMS on average. Within that 160 MG are 2 MG of medicine. This means that for every MG of PILL WEIGHT there are 125 micrograms of medicine.  Because I am weighing out the pill, which weighs 160MG and not weighing the 2MG of active ingredient contained within, it is very reasonable to expect an inexpensive scale to be off by a couple of MGs.

 

Ed - you're off by a decimal point.  1 mg of your pill weight equates with 12.5 micrograms of medicine.  2/160 = 0.0125 mg or 12.5 µg.

 

Yes, you are correct about that and thank you. My main point remains however, that the scale is using milligrams of pill weight to reduce micrograms of medicine.

[[ed...]]

How can you tell if your body won't tolerate liquid?

 

I just started liquifiying my clonazepam and moving it around so I will be taking three doses a day eight hours apart. At first I had horrible anxiety, then I got a week long window, and now I'm back to horrible anxiety for a little over a week.

 

Thanks

 

For me, I knew within 5 minutes of consuming pharma grade liquid valium. My stomach started going crazy and I felt toxic for several days. I contemplated using vodka, but as a recovering alcoholic, I just couldn't intentionally consume branded booze. I'm aware that fruit may have more alcohol than the vodka I'd have consumed, but it is what it is.

 

Best,

Ed

[Guest [ba...]]

Yes, you are correct about that and thank you. My main point remains however, that the scale is using milligrams of pill weight to reduce micrograms of medicine.

 

I know and agree with your premise.  But when I was reading your post, something just didn't add up in my head.  It's amazing how sensitive some people are to very small changes of dosage.

[[ed...]]

Yes, you are correct about that and thank you. My main point remains however, that the scale is using milligrams of pill weight to reduce micrograms of medicine.

 

I know and agree with your premise.  But when I was reading your post, something just didn't add up in my head.  It's amazing how sensitive some people are to very small changes of dosage.

 

Yeah, I don't get it to be honest. I can hold for a week and then drop such a tiny, tiny amount from my dosage (12.5micrograms of Valium)...and then feel it within 12 hours. With such a long half life, I don't understand. Some may say it's all in my mind, but when I wake up the next morning after a 11pm micro cut and my quads are ticking away...I know it isn't in my head.

 

I hope you're healing well.

 

Best,

Ed

[Guest [ba...]]

Yeah, I don't get it to be honest. I can hold for a week and then drop such a tiny, tiny amount from my dosage (12.5micrograms of Valium)...and then feel it within 12 hours. With such a long half life, I don't understand. Some may say it's all in my mind, but when I wake up the next morning after a 11pm micro cut and my quads are ticking away...I know it isn't in my head.

 

I liken it to either having enough money to pay the rent or not having enough money to pay the rent.  Even if you're just a dollar short, your landlord may begin making trouble for you.  Your body demands a certain payment of benzo, and if you don't deliver it can start making trouble for you.  The landlord and your body want to increase (not decrease) that payment.  It's no wonder that people have the challenges that they have when weaning off this stuff.

[[ed...]]

Yeah, I don't get it to be honest. I can hold for a week and then drop such a tiny, tiny amount from my dosage (12.5micrograms of Valium)...and then feel it within 12 hours. With such a long half life, I don't understand. Some may say it's all in my mind, but when I wake up the next morning after a 11pm micro cut and my quads are ticking away...I know it isn't in my head.

 

I liken it to either having enough money to pay the rent or not having enough money to pay the rent.  Even if you're just a dollar short, your landlord may begin making trouble for you.  Your body demands a certain payment of benzo, and if you don't deliver it can start making trouble for you.  The landlord and your body want to increase (not decrease) that payment.  It's no wonder that people have the challenges that they have when weaning off this stuff.

 

I love your analogy. I just wish my landlord (body) would give a couple day's grace period. 

[[...]]

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for your response. I've been making my own liquid for about a month now. I didn't really notice any difference when I first started using the liquid but when I started moving my doses around, well that's when the anxiety hit the ceiling, along with the agoraphobia.

 

I've been told that your body can interpret moving doses as a cut so maybe that is what is happening. Though I had a window a few days in but then back to the extreme symptoms, plus physical ones. I plan on holding for a couple of weeks once I have my doses spaced.

 

Thanks again.

[[ed...]]

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for your response. I've been making my own liquid for about a month now. I didn't really notice any difference when I first started using the liquid but when I started moving my doses around, well that's when the anxiety hit the ceiling, along with the agoraphobia.

 

I've been told that your body can interpret moving doses as a cut so maybe that is what is happening. Though I had a window a few days in but then back to the extreme symptoms, plus physical ones. I plan on holding for a couple of weeks once I have my doses spaced.

 

Thanks again.

 

Happy to offer what I've experienced. Our bodies respond in crazy ways, that's for sure. I wish you well and hope you stabilize quickly.

 

All the best,

Ed

[[la...]]

Hi all.

 

I am switching to all liquid soon. (Only one of my doses is liquid right now)

 

Should I gradually switch to all liquid? Or do it all at once?

 

Should I hold for a bit after I've made the complete switch?

 

What is your take on this?

 

Lala

[[Ma...]]

Dear Nova,

 

As far as pill weights go, I'm not incorrect here. My pills weigh 160 MILLIGRAMS on average. Within that 160 MG are 2 MG of medicine. This means that for every MG of PILL WEIGHT there are 125 micrograms of medicine.  Because I am weighing out the pill, which weighs 160MG and not weighing the 2MG of active ingredient contained within, it is very reasonable to expect an inexpensive scale to be off by a couple of MGs.

 

Ed - you're off by a decimal point.  1 mg of your pill weight equates with 12.5 micrograms of medicine.  2/160 = 0.0125 mg or 12.5 µg.

 

Yes, you are correct about that and thank you. My main point remains however, that the scale is using milligrams of pill weight to reduce micrograms of medicine.

[/quote

 

I don't get this. I have a Gemini Scale. Put in on g. Mode. A 5 mg valium weighs .158 g.  How do i covert this. Is the 5 mg medicine equally distributed with fillers?  So when you break off a piece. Weigh. It. Are you getting an equal distribution?  How do you do dry cuts with 5mg pill Weighing .158 g?  Confused. Please help

 

 

[Guest [ba...]]

As far as practically possible the medicine is evenly distributed.  5 mg of medicine = 158 mg of pill (0.158g).  1 mg of medicine = 158/5 mg of pill.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you.    Whats your process for cutting 1 mlg pieces?  I'm now at 11v. Alot turns to crumbs with razor.

 

[[Ma...]]

Ok. I see.  1 mg  v is equal to .03.  I see now the only way to daily microdose small amounts is through the liquid method.  Correct?

I just got this 5mg and 10mg filled so I know i cant get 2,s yet.

[[bu...]]

Ok. I see.  1 mg  v is equal to .03.  I see now the only way to daily microdose small amounts is through the liquid method.  Correct?

I just got this 5mg and 10mg filled so I know i cant get 2,s yet.

 

It doesn't matter.  You can liquify 2s, 5s, and/or 10s.  You control the concentration by varying the amount of liquid yoiu use.

[Guest [ba...]]

Those little Gem-20 scales will probably do a pretty good job at weighing pill fragments (or powdered pill) down to 0.008 to 0.010 grams (which equates to around 0.3 mg valium).  After that, the error starts getting larger, and you'll need to start using smaller pills.  With a 2 mg pill, you can get down to around 0.1 mg valium which is approaching a point where you could theoretically jump.  That's well down the road if your signature is up-to-date.  I think you'll easily get through your supply of 5 mg pills.

 

To do dry cuts past the 0.1 mg (valium) point simply involves adding some other inert material when you crush you your pill.  Something like a Tums would make a good addition.  We can talk more about how to do that when the need arises.  It'll take you a while to get to that point.

[[ed...]]

Dear Nova,

 

As far as pill weights go, I'm not incorrect here. My pills weigh 160 MILLIGRAMS on average. Within that 160 MG are 2 MG of medicine. This means that for every MG of PILL WEIGHT there are 125 micrograms of medicine.  Because I am weighing out the pill, which weighs 160MG and not weighing the 2MG of active ingredient contained within, it is very reasonable to expect an inexpensive scale to be off by a couple of MGs.

 

Ed - you're off by a decimal point.  1 mg of your pill weight equates with 12.5 micrograms of medicine.  2/160 = 0.0125 mg or 12.5 µg.

 

Yes, you are correct about that and thank you. My main point remains however, that the scale is using milligrams of pill weight to reduce micrograms of medicine.

[/quote

 

I don't get this. I have a Gemini Scale. Put in on g. Mode. A 5 mg valium weighs .158 g.  How do i covert this. Is the 5 mg medicine equally distributed with fillers?  So when you break off a piece. Weigh. It. Are you getting an equal distribution?  How do you do dry cuts with 5mg pill Weighing .158 g?  Confused. Please help

 

Theoretically there is an equal distribution of the medicine within the fillers.  The .158 is 158 milligrams of pill weight, within which are 5mg of medicine.  This means one milligram of medicine is contained within every 31.6milligrams of pill weight (158/5=31.6).  So, if you want to cut your medicine by, say .1mg, you'd simply remove 3.16mg (.003 rounded) of pill weight.

[[Ma...]]

Thanks.  Hard to believe pharmaceutical companies didn't hide the medicine in erroneous places  to make this Totally impossible.

 

I guess I'm now getting paranoid!!

[[Va...]]

Ok. I see.  1 mg  v is equal to .03.  I see now the only way to daily microdose small amounts is through the liquid method.  Correct?

I just got this 5mg and 10mg filled so I know i cant get 2,s yet.

Hi Magnolis. The pill amount doesn't matter. I actually mix 5 2mg pills when I make my solution so it will last more than a couple of days. You can use the 10s and 5s all the way down with liquid titration.  --V

[[li...]]

Does anyone DLMT klonopin WITHOUT holding?

 

I've gone back over my journals for the 15 months I've been on klonopin and my downfall started when I held for a few days for stomach pain 3 months into a 5% a month taper. (found out it was the nuts I was eating). When I started again, I got quickly very sick and held for ten days and wasn't getting better so was told to updose. Updosed and struggled but had a few good afternoons. Started up again slower but was told to add in holds and couldn't figure out why I was crashing so I kept changing my dose rate--8 times in 4 months from 1% a month to 3% a month. All included holds of various lengths and always had worse symptoms in a hold or the day coming off a hold.  And yes I was told well it's just the lag time catching up. But I was worse in the four months I was tweaking my doses and holding a lot than I did when I just tapered straight through at a 5% conservative rate.

 

I held for six months this year and the first three weeks had one of my worst symptoms the whole time and weeks 6-9 got horrid vertigo I never had before. I also recently thought it a good idea to reduce doses a day from 4 to 3--horrid 3 weeks holding there, another hard 4 weeks going back up to four and now a terrible four days updosing .02 mg

 

It's taken me this long to realize (I think) that my body wants consistency. Did anyone else find this?  All I hear is the horror stories that if don't hold im going to be bedridden all the way down and take years to recover but I thought a microtaper was supposed to prevent that?  Again is this common for klonopin?

[[li...]]

And I take no other meds, have about ten baseline symptoms, eat all organic and drink purified water and try to move my body a bit but the rest of the day is on the couch CUZ of crazy brain and weak body.

[[la...]]

Liza...YES...to your question...I know several ppl here look for Kgirl, who found that after doing exactly what you describe that their body got in to a rhythm and whenever they would "teak" it they fell into more trouble

 

Kgirl (friend of mine) just told me that again...to just keep clodding away the way I have been.

 

So I cut again today and am going to try my best to keep at this rate.

 

I too eat healthy (Gluten/sugar free) filtered water ONLY...exercise daily  and still am so sick I spend most if not all my day on couch...  The drug is killing me (and all of us)

 

I pray that you can do this and find a rhythm that works for you

[[li...]]

Thanks for answering dear Lainey. Do you notice any change from tapering?

[[li...]]

I'm hoping that a daily microtaper will be a little gentler (which I have found even though it's still so hard) but everyone says it all catches up with you if you don't hold. I'm with Kgirl