Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[bu...]]

...but why do we hold when it goes from hard to horrific?  Why don't we just dose correct to the previous dose when it wasn't horrific? 

 

That would be my suggestion.  As a generalization, WD sxs are the result of reducing the med faster than the body can adjust.  So you can either hol d and be miserable while you wait for the body to "catch up", or you can increase the med so it matches the body's need.

 

I  know a lot of BBs believe that holding is the best solution when you hit a rough spot, and if that's your preference, that's OK.  But the goal of my taper plan was to get off with a minimum of suffering, so IMO, updoses are the most comfortable alternative.

[[li...]]

Thanks Builder. When people say updoses haven't worked for them why not?  Holds have helped me (except from when I went from four to three doses and it felt horrid) but they take 3 weeks of hell.  So it doesn't freak your brain to go up and then back down continually? 

 

Also--do you remember how many times you had to updose?  I seemed to get into really hot water every 3 months. Thanks!

[[fi...]]

Dear fightformylife - I've been microtapering for about a year and found it MUCH better than cut and hold, which I did for about six months before that. Everybody's different, so I mean no disrespect to those who swear by cut and hold. I still have a LOT of symptoms. I've recently started taking inositol (you can find the thread on this by doing a search under the "Home" section.) It helps my depression and anxiety. I take a very low dose, as I'm very sensitive to meds - I take only 275 mg per day. I just started it last week.  I'm at 4.2 mg. Valium and cutting .025 mg five days per week. I think I would have to go slower if it weren't for the inositol.

 

I wish you luck,

MirandaJane

 

thank you MirandaJane, I will look up the inositol as well although I am SO sensitive to any supplements right now.......I plan to start with a 3% per month daily micro taper.....and see how it goes -

[[li...]]

On the other hand inositol gave me such stomach pain that I ended up in the ER when I was 3 1/2 years Off Benzos and the ER doc gave me oral lidocaine which threw me back into acute withdrawal And I had to reinstate 4 months later because I was psychotic and suicidal. So everyone is different with supplements.

[[jr...]]

Thanks Builder. When people say updoses haven't worked for them why not?  Holds have helped me (except from when I went from four to three doses and it felt horrid) but they take 3 weeks of hell.  So it doesn't freak your brain to go up and then back down continually? 

 

Also--do you remember how many times you had to updose?  I seemed to get into really hot water every 3 months. Thanks!

 

 

Most will think an up dose will be an immediate effect but it just isn't so. I have up dosed and waited weeks before I felt any better.

[[bu...]]

Thanks Builder. When people say updoses haven't worked for them why not? 

 

1)  Just as a cut often isn't felt immediately, an updose may not be  felt immediately.

2)  May be their sxs weren't really withdrawal.

 

Holds have helped me (except from when I went from four to three doses and it felt horrid) but they take 3 weeks of hell.  So it doesn't freak your brain to go up and then back down continually?    I

 

I would never suggest anyone "go up and down continually".  An updose (or a long hold) should be an unusual event in your taper.  If you feel you need to continually hold, or updose, there is something wrong with your taper.

 

Also--do you remember how many times you had to updose?  I seemed to get into really hot water every 3 months.

During my microtaper, only once.

 

Thanks!

[[li...]]

JR--that was my experience too--took weeks to feel better so that's why I'm terrified of crashing.

 

Thanks Builder--so if you have to hold or updose often, is it possible you're going too slow?  I had worse symptoms tapering 1% a month than I did at 5% a month and I can't make sense of it. I'm being advised to start out super slow but I literally felt worse. I had more psychotic episodes where I felt totally underdosed when I was going slower. So weird.

[[Pl...]]

JR--that was my experience too--took weeks to feel better so that's why I'm terrified of crashing.

 

Thanks Builder--so if you have to hold or updose often, is it possible you're going too slow?  I had worse symptoms tapering 1% a month than I did at 5% a month and I can't make sense of it. I'm being advised to start out super slow but I literally felt worse. I had more psychotic episodes where I felt totally underdosed when I was going slower. So weird.

 

Liza... Could that be because alot of what you are experiencing is side effects and that 5 % reduction made you feel better?

 

Or did you do the 5% percent reduction first which ended up catching up to you much later while you were doing the 1% reduction and you are confusing the two?

 

I don't know just try to trouble shoot here cause I kind of did the same thing....

[[li...]]

The 1% taper was after I was updosed from 1 mg to 1.25 mg (got stable and actually was functional) and was told maybe to try going slower. I then tried from .01 to .04 and had haphazard holds and was way all over the map and worse and more confused and every time I held or came off a hold I was actually worse for a couple days. That was Oct to Feb and then held for six months March to August and was up and down with new/better/worse symptoms the whole six months. Beginning to believe the klonopin people who say just keep going at a reasonable rate and hope it gets better.

[[li...]]

Did you feel better/not worse going faster Please? 

[[St...]]

when you say psychotic do you mean benzo rage?  I have been having some terrible times with that...wondered how you handle it?  Wishing you well, I am struggling on my v taper terribly right now too, please God help us both 

 

[[li...]]

Sorry Stella Bee--by psychotic I mean that I feel crazy, can't distract with anything, feel underdosed and like I'm going to run down the street screaming. It's not adrenaline or anxiety  God bless us both with the knowledge of how to get through one day at a time.

[[no...]]

Sorry Stella Bee--by psychotic I mean that I feel crazy, can't distract with anything, feel underdosed and like I'm going to run down the street screaming. It's not adrenaline or anxiety  God bless us both with the knowledge of how to get through one day at a time.

Liza  I was exactly like that Tuesday, and couldn't keep still, I really thought I was going to end up a screaming psychotic lunatic, I had to keep fighting an over powering urge to scream. Thank the G.man, it passed, its all one second, one minute, one hour one at a time, I let the day play it self out what comes along in its time I deal with it then. But like  mostly everyone else I also struggle with over whelming mental symptoms beyond my control on days as well. Today has  been calmer for me so far 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[no...]]

PS The last 6 hours have been calmer  so far, earlier was a different story

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[li...]]

Thanks Nova.

 

Can I just double check since I didn't have it right before--was it correct equivalency-wise that my doc crossed me from 1.75 mg ativan to 1 mg k (then updosed to 1.25 mg).

That's where my problems started-I wanted to make sure it's the K and not the equivalency. Thx

[[Ul...]]

I know this isn't a micro taper question, but I just read some of the posts (I haven't been in BB's for a while...dealing with some other life issues). I see where some have used inositol for depression. If you've taken it, did it help with the dep? I ask because that's been a strong side effect as of late. My last dose of K before learning about this MT was 6mg/day. It's been super slow due to my heavy sensitivity and long hold for surgery on my back, and I'm just now getting down to 1.12mg/day. Hideously slow!! And if you have taken inositol, what's a "usual" starting dose?

 

Many thanks!

 

Jeff

[[jr...]]

I know this isn't a micro taper question, but I just read some of the posts (I haven't been in BB's for a while...dealing with some other life issues). I see where some have used inositol for depression. If you've taken it, did it help with the dep? I ask because that's been a strong side effect as of late. My last dose of K before learning about this MT was 6mg/day. It's been super slow due to my heavy sensitivity and long hold for surgery on my back, and I'm just now getting down to 1.12mg/day. Hideously slow!! And if you have taken inositol, what's a "usual" starting dose?

 

Many thanks!

 

Jeff

 

I take Inositol for anxiety. I take .25tsp in a half glass of milk. seems to work well for me.

[[Mi...]]

A week ago I started taking 275 mg. Inositol powder every morning. My depression and anxiety are some better. Most people take much more, but I'm very sensitive and wanted to start slow. There is a thread on this. Go to "Home" and search "Inositol."

 

MirandaJane

[[Ul...]]

I know this isn't a micro taper question, but I just read some of the posts (I haven't been in BB's for a while...dealing with some other life issues). I see where some have used inositol for depression. If you've taken it, did it help with the dep? I ask because that's been a strong side effect as of late. My last dose of K before learning about this MT was 6mg/day. It's been super slow due to my heavy sensitivity and long hold for surgery on my back, and I'm just now getting down to 1.12mg/day. Hideously slow!! And if you have taken inositol, what's a "usual" starting dose?

 

Many thanks!

 

Jeff

 

I take Inositol for anxiety. I take .25tsp in a half glass of milk. seems to work well for me.

 

Thanks!! Would you mind telling me what brand? I know that can make a big difference.

 

Jeff

[[jr...]]

Jarrow………I ordered it on Amazon.

[[Pl...]]

The 1% taper was after I was updosed from 1 mg to 1.25 mg (got stable and actually was functional) and was told maybe to try going slower. I then tried from .01 to .04 and had haphazard holds and was way all over the map and worse and more confused and every time I held or came off a hold I was actually worse for a couple days. That was Oct to Feb and then held for six months March to August and was up and down with new/better/worse symptoms the whole six months. Beginning to believe the klonopin people who say just keep going at a reasonable rate and hope it gets better.

 

How long did you allow yourself to stay at 1.25 mg before you started reducing at 1 percent maybe that was the problem?

[[fi...]]

So I have updosed to 6.5 mg Valium (no liquid added yet) - But I plan on starting a liquid daily micro taper (with RX Liquid Valium) as soon as I have stabilized - I thought I would add the liquid valium with either another slight up dose OR just substitute the liquid for 1mg of my current dose to get used to liquid?

 

I'm having extreme anxiety and horrible foggy headedness (i can't add 2 and 2 without my fingers), vision problems and horrible balance problems

 

My questions are:

 

1.  How long should I stay at 6.5 before I restart the taper?

 

2.  How much of a cut should I start with? I'm so scared that I thought maybe just 3% the first month - but now I'm reading of people actually doing better with larger cuts? Am I reading that correctly?

 

3.  I dose 2x a day - so when I start, if I use part pills and part liquid Valium (rx) what do some of you more experienced folks here suggest for the liquid portion? I was thinking 1mg total (1/2 mg AM and 1/2 MG pm) to start - and staying at the 6.5 mg to get used to the liquid?? or up-dose again?

 

4.  I had a good appt. with my Dr. Friday and I think he is willing to go the distance for me and do whatever I want as long as he feels that I am competent and can handle it all without overdosing or underdosing myself (he can tell how foggy I am) But point being - He will prescribe whatever we need - be it liquid or compounding or whatever -

 

IDEAS??

 

I've PM'ed a few of you and u know who you are (THANK YOU!!) - feeling guilty for blowing up mailboxes so I thought I would bring my questions and pleas for help in devising a taper here.....

 

Thank you!

[[ed...]]

Hi Fight,

 

I think you answered question #1 already. Stay at 6.5 until you stabilize. Once you have stabilized, we can move on to the next steps. Baby steps are best right now. Your system is already overloaded; there is no need to burden it down just yet with information/option overload. However, since you've asked, I've noticed many people cross over to liquid with a slight updose.

 

All the Best,

Ed

[[fi...]]

Thank you Ed - But what does "stable" really mean?

 

I doubt I will be symptom free at any point.....I was maybe symptom free when I first reinstated but not since I started this taper this time......

 

I'm so scared of staying here too long or tapering too soon......

 

I feel ok until I have to get out in the real world - and then I realize - my vision issues have me a little worried - they are very stroke like (darkness in corners) - I'm meeting with a new internist in November and may have her do a few tests to rule things like this out before I proceed? Just to have a baseline.....

 

 

[[...]]

So I have updosed to 6.5 mg Valium (no liquid added yet) - But I plan on starting a liquid daily micro taper (with RX Liquid Valium) as soon as I have stabilized - I thought I would add the liquid valium with either another slight up dose OR just substitute the liquid for 1mg of my current dose to get used to liquid?

 

I'm having extreme anxiety and horrible foggy headedness (i can't add 2 and 2 without my fingers), vision problems and horrible balance problems

 

My questions are:

 

1.  How long should I stay at 6.5 before I restart the taper?

 

2.  How much of a cut should I start with? I'm so scared that I thought maybe just 3% the first month - but now I'm reading of people actually doing better with larger cuts? Am I reading that correctly?

 

3.  I dose 2x a day - so when I start, if I use part pills and part liquid Valium (rx) what do some of you more experienced folks here suggest for the liquid portion? I was thinking 1mg total (1/2 mg AM and 1/2 MG pm) to start - and staying at the 6.5 mg to get used to the liquid?? or up-dose again?

 

4.  I had a good appt. with my Dr. Friday and I think he is willing to go the distance for me and do whatever I want as long as he feels that I am competent and can handle it all without overdosing or underdosing myself (he can tell how foggy I am) But point being - He will prescribe whatever we need - be it liquid or compounding or whatever -

 

IDEAS??

 

I've PM'ed a few of you and u know who you are (THANK YOU!!) - feeling guilty for blowing up mailboxes so I thought I would bring my questions and pleas for help in devising a taper here.....

 

Thank you!

 

I agree with Ed that it can take a while for the V to build up so staying put for a while is a good idea.  Hopefully it will bring some relief.  How long is really hard to say.  It is subjective and up to you as to when you feel ready to cut, but your idea to begin at 3% sounds good to me.  Ease into it and see if you can find a cut that at least does not increase symptoms and hopefully gets them to fade.

 

Your dose is 6.5mg V and you have 2mg pills and liquid V so I would keep 6mg dry and .5mg wet.  You dose 2x so splitting everything in half works out well.