Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[li...]]

And hoping I didn't upset the apple cart too much because I didn't feel good at the end of the hold, but I feel worse now. Hope I didn't negate the hold

[[...]]

And hoping I didn't upset the apple cart too much because I didn't feel good at the end of the hold, but I feel worse now. Hope I didn't negate the hold

 

All you can do is give it a try and see what happens.

[[...]]

Hi,

 

I'm new to BB. I haven't started my taper yet but have been planning on doing a daily micro taper which I am planning on starting within the week.

 

I do have a couple of concerns and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this.

 

I had to CT off of buproprion on June 1. I also seem to have reached tolerance and am having what appears to be interdose withdrawal from the clonazepam. I believe I am still experiencing withdrawal symptoms from the buproprion CT. So I am having interdose withdrawal and CT withdrawal, will starting a micro-taper now be a good idea?

 

I've read that if you are experiencing interdose withdrawal you have two options go up or go down and I really don't want to go up. I'm planning on starting with a 5% taper over the course of a month, also considering 3% instead.

 

I am taking 1.25mg of clonazepam in two doses, .75 at bedtime and .5mg in the morning. I am planning on reducing the evening dose first. I am putting .75mg in 40mL of cashew milk and pulling .1mL a day. It comes out to .0019mg reduction daily and .0619mg a month or 4.95%.

 

Another question is should I change it to three doses a day to try to get rid of the interdose withdrawal and just mix it all up and divide it into equal portions throughout the day?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm really actaullay terrified to start the taper and I want to get as much information as I can so it can be as smooth as possible as I'm already struggling with severe anxiety and agoraphobia.

 

Thanks for any help you can give.

[[bu...]]

I really believe your just experiencing WD from the  buproprion .  because of its long half-life, it would be unusual to have interdose withdrawal with clonazepam. 

 

If your truly experiencing interdose withdrawal, just spreading out your doses should help.  You could try going from 2.\/day to 3/day.

[[...]]

Hi Builder,

 

Thanks for your response. I agree that it would be unusual to experience interdose withdrawal because of the long half life however, I was also told that the duration of action is different than the half life and that is what can cause the interdose withdrawal in a drug like clonazepam that has a long half life.

 

"The duration of action will depend on how much withdrawal you are experiencing.  You can probably assume somewhere between 6 to 10 hours on average although there is a lot of person to person variation when it comes to benzos".

 

I agree that changing the dosing to three times a day could help prevent this, my anxiety sky rockets a couple of hours before my next dose, but I would prefer to taper from two doses a day instead of three, unless three would be better during in a taper.

 

Thanks again

[[jr...]]

Hi Builder,

 

Thanks for your response. I agree that it would be unusual to experience interdose withdrawal because of the long half life however, I was also told that the duration of action is different than the half life and that is what can cause the interdose withdrawal in a drug like clonazepam that has a long half life.

 

"The duration of action will depend on how much withdrawal you are experiencing.  You can probably assume somewhere between 6 to 10 hours on average although there is a lot of person to person variation when it comes to benzos".

 

I agree that changing the dosing to three times a day could help prevent this, my anxiety sky rockets a couple of hours before my next dose, but I would prefer to taper from two doses a day instead of three, unless three would be better during in a taper.

 

Thanks again

 

Being on a short acting benzo, I started at 3 doses and increased to 4 and later increased to 5. I don't know that K will be the same. But I do know interdose got worse for me the lower I got.

[[...]]

Hi Jr,

 

Thanks for your experience. I think I will go to three doses a day. I have been counseld to move my doses slowly so I don't experience any bad effects from changing my dosing times. So I'm going to move .25mg from my bedtime dose by one hour earlier and hold there for a week, I think, and then continue in that manner until my doses are all eight hours apart.

 

It makes sense that more doses would help prevent the interdose withdrawal. Did it help you have less withdrawal symptoms to dose more frequently?

 

 

[[jr...]]

Hi Jr,

 

Thanks for your experience. I think I will go to three doses a day. I have been counseld to move my doses slowly so I don't experience any bad effects from changing my dosing times. So I'm going to move .25mg from my bedtime dose by one hour earlier and hold there for a week, I think, and then continue in that manner until my doses are all eight hours apart.

 

It makes sense that more doses would help prevent the interdose withdrawal. Did it help you have less withdrawal symptoms to dose more frequently?

 

Absolutely it helped! I also just took my daily dose of three x a day and divided it by 4 and changed all at the same time. It is the same amount of meds, the only change is the dosing times. I done the same when I switched from 4 to 5 doses.

[[...]]

 

 

Thanks Jr.

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Jr,

 

Did you experience any withdrawal effects from moving your doses? I moved a portion of one of my doses just a one hour difference and I seem to be having some ill effects from it.

 

It was suggested on another board that I slowly move the doses as the body would view it as a cut to move it all at once. I am two days into the move of about .3mg from .75mg. My bedtime dose. I moved the aprox .3mg to one hour before the rest of the dose. So my bedtime dose is now about .4mg.

 

Today I woke earlier with lots of vivid dreams, a nightmare or two and lots of adrenaline and anxiety. I've also been nauseaus, trembling and stuttering along with the continued anxiety and agitation. Besides anxiety most of these symptoms have mostly subsided from my buproprion CT.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks for your help

[[jr...]]

No , I actually had a decrease in sxs. I made the change in one day. My doses start at 8am and go from there. currently 8a, 11a, 2p, 5p,and 9pm. I sleep well thru the nite and start again the next morning

[[...]]

No , I actually had a decrease in sxs. I made the change in one day. My doses start at 8am and go from there. currently 8a, 11a, 2p, 5p,and 9pm. I sleep well thru the nite and start again the next morning

 

Wow, that's awesome. I'm so glad for you.

 

Hopefully that will happen at some point for me as well. Do you know if that happens for many people with a daily micro-taper?

[[jr...]]

It will happen. take it slow and easy. there is an unspoken in the back of our brain that says the sooner we are off the sooner we are well. But that simply is not true. Give your body plenty of time to adjust to being without the benzo. Set no dates to be off and go as slow as you need to.

[[ka...]]

Excellent advice Jr!

[[Pl...]]

Can someone be kind enough to help me transition partially back to half pill and half liquid6.... Like an easy transition....? Would that be better or should I just go back to all pill right away?

 

Please look at my history... I've been doing milk for about 5 months now....

 

I'm currently on .9342 mg of clonazepam......  I dose 3 times a day.... Not doing well at all...

 

My problem is I can't even do The tiniest reductions at all such as I believe it would be .0005?

Its the line all the way at the bottom of the tip between the halfway point from the tip to .1 on a 1 ml syringe...don't know if my decimals are in the right place....

 

If I switch to pills can I still do the tiniest reductions that I can in some way? Is there a method to dry microtapering daily?

 

I don't know if I'm going to do this yet but at least having the formula on hand would be helpful... I need to try something... Someone said switching back to pills may feel like an up dose I hope that's not the case....

 

Anyone with knowledge experience please chime in... I really need your help....

 

And if this doesn't work can I always switch back to liquid?    Thank you all!!!!!!

 

I currently put (2) .50 mg pills in 100 ml of milk and pull out 6.58 ml....

 

Ps... I have a Gemini scale from amazon and my pills are generic from the manufacturer Activis

 

[[Ul...]]

It will happen. take it slow and easy. there is an unspoken in the back of our brain that says the sooner we are off the sooner we are well. But that simply is not true. Give your body plenty of time to adjust to being without the benzo. Set no dates to be off and go as slow as you need to.

 

Man, ain't that the truth. If I were going any slower I'd be going in reverse, but thank God for the liquid taper. I've been on this stuff for so long (and many other cocktails along the way) that I'm having to go super slow. It's saving my butt though. Hang in there, TNT!! Looks like you've been through a ton, but following jr and Builder and several others on here will get you through it. I did what you did...took more doses, adjusted the time taken as needed, etc. Keep hammering away!!

 

Jeff

[[...]]

Thanks guys,

 

I have to say that I am worried that it won't go well like it seems it's not for Pleasebehere.

 

I wish there was something I could do to help you Pleasebehere. I haven't started my taper yet so I don't have a lot of experience. I have seen where people crush their pills and take tiny amounts out of the pills using jewlers scales to measure the amounts.

 

 

 

 

[[jr...]]

Can someone be kind enough to help me transition partially back to half pill and half liquid6.... Like an easy transition....? Would that be better or should I just go back to all pill right away?

 

Please look at my history... I've been doing milk for about 5 months now....

 

I'm currently on .9342 mg of clonazepam......  I dose 3 times a day.... Not doing well at all...

 

My problem is I can't even do The tiniest reductions at all such as I believe it would be .0005?

Its the line all the way at the bottom of the tip between the halfway point from the tip to .1 on a 1 ml syringe...don't know if my decimals are in the right place....

 

If I switch to pills can I still do the tiniest reductions that I can in some way? Is there a method to dry microtapering daily?

 

I don't know if I'm going to do this yet but at least having the formula on hand would be helpful... I need to try something... Someone said switching back to pills may feel like an up dose I hope that's not the case....

 

Anyone with knowledge experience please chime in... I really need your help....

 

And if this doesn't work can I always switch back to liquid?    Thank you all!!!!!!

 

I currently put (2) .50 mg pills in 100 ml of milk and pull out 6.58 ml....

 

Ps... I have a Gemini scale from amazon and my pills are generic from the manufacturer Activis

 

If you put two .5mg pills in 100 ml liquid, that gives you a strength of .01mg/ml. If you want to go back, just take one .5mg pill orally and dissolve a .5mg pill in 100 ml liquid for a strength of .005mg per ml. if you toss 6.5 ml you will have 93.5 ml left to divide into 2 doses of of 46.75 ml each or .23375mg each

[[Pl...]]

Can someone be kind enough to help me transition partially back to half pill and half liquid6.... Like an easy transition....? Would that be better or should I just go back to all pill right away?

 

Please look at my history... I've been doing milk for about 5 months now....

 

I'm currently on .9342 mg of clonazepam......  I dose 3 times a day.... Not doing well at all...

 

My problem is I can't even do The tiniest reductions at all such as I believe it would be .0005?

Its the line all the way at the bottom of the tip between the halfway point from the tip to .1 on a 1 ml syringe...don't know if my decimals are in the right place....

 

If I switch to pills can I still do the tiniest reductions that I can in some way? Is there a method to dry microtapering daily?

 

I don't know if I'm going to do this yet but at least having the formula on hand would be helpful... I need to try something... Someone said switching back to pills may feel like an up dose I hope that's not the case....

 

Anyone with knowledge experience please chime in... I really need your help....

 

And if this doesn't work can I always switch back to liquid?    Thank you all!!!!!!

 

I currently put (2) .50 mg pills in 100 ml of milk and pull out 6.58 ml....

 

Ps... I have a Gemini scale from amazon and my pills are generic from the manufacturer Activis

 

If you put two .5mg pills in 100 ml liquid, that gives you a strength of .01mg/ml. If you want to go back, just take one .5mg pill orally and dissolve a .5mg pill in 100 ml liquid for a strength of .005mg per ml. if you toss 6.5 ml you will have 93.5 ml left to divide into 2 doses of of 46.75 ml each or .23375mg each

 

Jr .... That sounds like excellent advice but here's my problem.... My body is so sensitive to any change and because the dosage is so strong for me I had to split it out divided into 3 doses separated at  8 hours apart.....

 

I tried taking two doses at once in the liquid form last week and it was bad....( regarding your reference above in taking a one time dose in pill form of .50mg.....)

 

Do you know of a way to do this so that the 3 doses are spread out evenly?      Many thanks for your insight..

 

I'm trying to understand your reasoning what's left of my thinking capacity ( let alone math)

[[jr...]]

At one point in my taper, I was microtapering dry. you will need the weight of your .5mg pill. I am gonna use .120g as an example. The way I done it was to grind about 10 pills into a fine powder and store it in a jar. You are currently on 1mg so that equates to .240g on your gemini scale. to make 3 doses just measure out .080g of powder and put it in a bottle , add a little water and shake and drink. I would make my doses for the day every morning and store them in the fridge. I would get them out, shake them up and gulp them down. To reduce just reduce one dose by .001g. then reduce 2 doses the next day and so on. That equates to less than 1% a day. You can hold any time you want for as long as you want. Some have said that you never know homogenous the pills are and are you actually weighing the correct amount of meds. But I never had a minutes problem doing it that way and continued that way until I couldnt weigh any less on my gemini scales and I switched to liquid MT.

[[no...]]

At one point in my taper, I was microtapering dry. you will need the weight of your .5mg pill. I am gonna use .120g as an example. The way I done it was to grind about 10 pills into a fine powder and store it in a jar. You are currently on 1mg so that equates to .240g on your gemini scale. to make 3 doses just measure out .080g of powder and put it in a bottle , add a little water and shake and drink. I would make my doses for the day every morning and store them in the fridge. I would get them out, shake them up and gulp them down. To reduce just reduce one dose by .001g. then reduce 2 doses the next day and so on. That equates to less than 1% a day. You can hold any time you want for as long as you want. Some have said that you never know homogenous the pills are and are you actually weighing the correct amount of meds. But I never had a minutes problem doing it that way and continued that way until I couldnt weigh any less on my gemini scales and I switched to liquid MT.

Also rinse the bottle and drink again as there may be drug residue let behind

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[ed...]]

At one point in my taper, I was microtapering dry. you will need the weight of your .5mg pill. I am gonna use .120g as an example. The way I done it was to grind about 10 pills into a fine powder and store it in a jar. You are currently on 1mg so that equates to .240g on your gemini scale. to make 3 doses just measure out .080g of powder and put it in a bottle , add a little water and shake and drink. I would make my doses for the day every morning and store them in the fridge. I would get them out, shake them up and gulp them down. To reduce just reduce one dose by .001g. then reduce 2 doses the next day and so on. That equates to less than 1% a day. You can hold any time you want for as long as you want. Some have said that you never know homogenous the pills are and are you actually weighing the correct amount of meds. But I never had a minutes problem doing it that way and continued that way until I couldnt weigh any less on my gemini scales and I switched to liquid MT.

Also rinse the bottle and drink again as there may be drug residue let behind

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

Heck, I run my finger around the inside of the glass to make sure I get every last bit. You'd think the stuff was ambrosia the way my body covets it.

[[li...]]

Going to be restarting my DLMT after a six month hold and switching from four to three doses which has made everything worse (waiting three weeks in hopes that some things settle down). I am wondering if considering how crappy this has all been for me, if this is too aggressive:

 

I am dissolving 1.25 mg of oral dissolvable K tablets in 60 ml milk and have been pulling 3 ml since March 1. So my plan starting back up is

 

C/c/c/h/h/h--5 of these cycles a month with each cut being .1 ml for a total of 1.5 ml a month. This is the pace I started with last summer and made it 90 days before I crashed (never held). Going slower hasn't helped. The long hold (after about a month) got me out of the worst but I never improved from there (in fact had waves of stuff that I never had before). Now the switch in dosing to three a day has brought one new symptom after another and I'm beginning to think my body, while still together is being made sicker. This rate would take 3 years to get off 1.20 mg if I figured right

 

All I can do is try. I was going to start back up at .01 ml but my symptoms at this rate were no better than when I was going at .1

 

Any comments welcomed but only if I'm way off. Thanks

[[...]]

Going to be restarting my DLMT after a six month hold and switching from four to three doses which has made everything worse (waiting three weeks in hopes that some things settle down). I am wondering if considering how crappy this has all been for me, if this is too aggressive:

 

I am dissolving 1.25 mg of oral dissolvable K tablets in 60 ml milk and have been pulling 3 ml since March 1. So my plan starting back up is

 

C/c/c/h/h/h--5 of these cycles a month with each cut being .1 ml for a total of 1.5 ml a month. This is the pace I started with last summer and made it 90 days before I crashed (never held). Going slower hasn't helped. The long hold (after about a month) got me out of the worst but I never improved from there (in fact had waves of stuff that I never had before). Now the switch in dosing to three a day has brought one new symptom after another and I'm beginning to think my body, while still together is being made sicker. This rate would take 3 years to get off 1.20 mg if I figured right

 

All I can do is try. I was going to start back up at .01 ml but my symptoms at this rate were no better than when I was going at .1

 

Any comments welcomed but only if I'm way off. Thanks

 

It looks like you plan to do a micro C&H rather than a daily microtaper.  I find it helpful to just think in terms of a percentage per month first, then find out what that is when applied to whatever taper method you plan to do.  You are planning on 1.5ml a month which is ~.03mg K.  Your current dose is ~1.2mg so .03mg is 2.5%.  In your condition, if you are going to taper I think that is a good choice.  Nice and easy to start.  The only tweak I would suggest is breaking it into daily cuts of .001mg (.05ml) instead of .1ml in a c/c/c/h/h/h pattern to make the drug work for you more to help with symptoms.

[[li...]]

Really SG?  I was afraid to not automatically work in holds because of the way this thing has gone for me already. It seems that when I have a major problem it takes me a while to recover. I'm getting paranoid about crashing so I thought a cut and hold pattern might be helpful based on others' experiences, but I'm open to either but think I need to at least start conservatively. I switched from four to three doses 18 days ago and because the sedation/fog/vision was heavier I got frantic and thought I should walk more, push myself to drive, do more during the day to wake up. I've been very sick/crazy all week and it's either CUZ my body hates this drug or because I went from little exercise and zero driving to walking 45 minutes a day and driving every day "just to prove I'm stable". It's like a manic frantic. I'm going to rest the next few days and hope I prove the theory that I can be balanced in my approach to life because I don't want to wake up toxic and psychotic again like I did this morning. I've had frantic episodes the last ten days when I see "I can't do something or my brain is more gone"--so I push to do something to prove that I'm in control instead of resting and it's making me sicker. Idiotic. Thanks for your help. Do you know any folks who've had success with proactive holds?