Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[jr...]]

you cut approximately 48% in 5 months, so that would be 4.8% every two weeks

[[Ul...]]

...wouldn't I now add solution into my 1mL syringe up to ".75" mark? It's doesn't actually say ".75" obviously because the area I would go to would really be the area between the "74" and "76" mark.

 

1) Is that correct?

2) Is there an easier way to do it? 

 

Common sense would tell me that I'm correct since I'd be adding .75mL into my dose jar (after adding the 39mL) as opposed to adding only .50mL, which means there is more liquid in the dose than before, BUT my sense isn't very common right now. I'm sure that's more than evident to you all.

 

And, mercy! How in the world do you guys do even smaller doses like .0013 etc? How do you even read that small of a number on a 1mL syringe?

 

Moocho thanks!

 

Jeff

  Yes, 75 (between 74 and 76) on a 1ml syringe is .75ml.  And at your dilution ratio (2mg=200ml) .75ml would be .0075mg. So your total dose would be 40+40+39+.75=119.75, or 1.1975mg.

 

And note that you already are working in tenths of thousandths  (.0001) precision.  Unlikely you will need smaller units than that.  But if you really do then increase the dilution ratio (eg: 1mg=1000ml)

 

Thanks, builder...and jr too!!  Oh, jr...what is the "WOW" referring to?

 

Appreciate the help!

 

Jeff

[[no...]]

  Thanks so much for explaining that to me Builder  another buddie also made me aware of this too 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

You mean...you're involved with someone else? 

:laugh: :laugh:

[[St...]]

you cut approximately 48% in 5 months, so that would be 4.8% every two weeks

 

Ok. I think the story when I look at my logs is that I went faster recently. That helps. Thanks.

[[ph...]]

Builder,

 

Hope you are reading this blog.  I am officially off benzos. 

 

I want to thank you for all your help simplifying what I tried to make difficult.  A tapering schedule was beyond my dull mind and your help was needed and so appreciated.

 

Having no problems today but I do know that the life of valium remains in my system.  With the slow taper, I really do not expect any significant withdrawal symptoms ... only time will tell.

 

Thanks again and know you are appreciated, Phoebe

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

Hope you are reading this blog. I am officially off benzos. 

 

I want to thank you for all your help simplifying what I tried to make difficult.  A tapering schedule was beyond my dull mind and your help was needed and so appreciated.

 

Having no problems today but I do know that the life of valium remains in my system.  With the slow taper, I really do not expect any significant withdrawal symptoms ... only time will tell.

 

Thanks again and know you are appreciated, Phoebe

 

:thumbsup:

 

Don't worry-you'll be fine!

[[St...]]

Builder, I was hoping you had advice. I posted in another thread that I'm not stable. I'm not sure if it's my diet, stress or a prilosec / Valium I, but I feel like something has gone wrong for me.

 

I keep getting worse. My back is seizing up. My hair feels like it's standing on end on my head. My legs are twitching. I don't know what to do. I

[[no...]]

Builder, I was hoping you had advice. I posted in another thread that I'm not stable. I'm not sure if it's my diet, stress or a prilosec / Valium I, but I feel like something has gone wrong for me.

 

I keep getting worse. My back is seizing up. My hair feels like it's standing on end on my head. My legs are twitching. I don't know what to do. I

Hi Stephen  I just noticed your taking a PPI  (PROSLEC) PPI's should be avoided by anyone on Benzos and in withdrawal PPI'S (prilosec,nexium, etc) and Benzodiazepines  use the same enzyme in your liver CYP 450. The Benzo's don't get metabolized properly  and then they hang around in the body, building up, and PPI'S need to be tapered off not suddenly stopped as you get withdrawal symptoms and rebound acid reflux from them. PPI's interact and may interfere with absorption of certain minerals, calcium and.  Below is one of many threads about PPI's and Benzos I hope its of help

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=26665.0

 

[[no...]]

Stephen are you taking it for an Ulcer? If so have you been tested for  helicobacter pylori (H pylori) infection? If you haven't I'd have it tested because most stomach ulcers are caused by infection and can be treated and cured with antibiotics.

 

STOMACH ULCERS

The most common causes of peptic ulcers are infection with the bacterium Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) and long-term use of aspirin and certain other painkillers, such as ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, others) and naproxen sodium (Aleve, Anaprox, others). Stress and spicy foods do not cause peptic ulcers. However, they can make your symptoms worse.

 

Ulcers. H. pylori can damage the protective lining of your stomach and small intestine. This can allow stomach acid to create an open sore (ulcer). About 10 percent of people with H. pylori will develop an ulcer.

 

Inflammation of the stomch. H. pylori infection can irritate your stomach, causing inflammation (gastritis).

    Stomach cancer. H. pylori infection is a strong risk factor for certain types of stomach cancer.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/peptic-ulcer/home/ovc-20231363

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

[[St...]]

Nova. Thanks. I know about the PPI / Valium link. I just don't know what to do

[[no...]]

Nova. Thanks. I know about the PPI / Valium link. I just don't know what to do

Hi Stephen  I don't know what to suggest as it may just be the way your withdrawal is going, and you only been holding a few days so its too early to say if its going to help as yet. The only other thing I can think of is was there a dose your were more settled on before  as it may not be this last cut that's the problem. Benzos have a ''lag'' time where previous  cuts in doses  all catch up at the same time and hit your severely. In this case if its that then I personally believe that  holding is the way for you to go, but if its severely disabling and you feel you can't taper or hold either way then consider an updose and hold until you stabilise a bit? 

 

Or rather ''Dose correction''  sometime when all the cuts are too much we may need to go back up to the ''correct dose'' being the last dose we felt less symptomatic even though we may have had some symptoms.  Its considered ''up-dosing'' when its done just to do things like go to a out socialising, catch a plane do or go on holiday but not when your tapering and suffering hell and feel you need to abandon the taper there is a difference.  But give the hold a little longer unless things change quickly to a drastic situation where ''dose correction'' maybe required .

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[ka...]]

Stephen,

depending on what is the cause of the stomach issue and the need for PPI's, you may consider checking out the medication carafate. It is the only one that i can handle for high acidic and ulcers. I take it 4 times daily.  just a thought

[[St...]]

After talking to my doctor back in the US I'm going to updose to 2.0mg and see how that goes. Hopefully that isn't too little or make me paradoxical. This whole thing is scary, uncharted territory.

[[Ul...]]

Liquid titration question:  I realize that this is a really crazy question (and it should be easy), but I'm a little over the edge considering multiple surgeries, many many holds, lots of medical problems as a result of heavy benzo used, and being on K for over 22 years at a high dose (plus all the additional cocktails over the years). Math is a "no can do" thing right now. Anyway, I've been putting two 1mg K tablets into 194 milliliters of water (6 mL of vodka to dissolve the tablets) for a total of 200 milliliters of solution. I dose 3x/day and I've been decreasing one dose a day by .005mg (1/2 milliliter). I've had to hold again recently for lots of reasons, but I'd like to try cutting a very small amount now. Instead of decreasing by .005mg/day, I'd like to decrease by an even smaller amount of .0025mg/day.

 

I'm currently at 40mL for each of the three doses (that's where I've been holding) for a total of 1.2mg/day (still high, but much better than 6mg/day!!). I'm using a 50mL syringe and a 1mL syringe. If I wanted to continue decreasing .005mg/day, then I'd take 40mL from the large syringe two times and put into two of my mini jars, and then I'd take 39mL for the third dose and then use my 1mL syringe to add another 1/2mL to the jar with 39mL in it. So, I'd have 40mL for the first dose, 40mL for the second dose, and 39 1/2mL for the third dose. BUT, now I only want to reduce by .0025mg (1/4mL) on the third dose, for this example...so (and here's the benzo brain easy question that's over my head), wouldn't I now add solution into my 1mL syringe up to ".75" mark? It's doesn't actually say ".75" obviously because the area I would go to would really be the area between the "74" and "76" mark.

 

1) Is that correct?

2) Is there an easier way to do it? 

 

Common sense would tell me that I'm correct since I'd be adding .75mL into my dose jar (after adding the 39mL) as opposed to adding only .50mL, which means there's more liquid in the dose than before, BUT my sense isn't very common right now. I'm sure that's more than evident to you all.

 

And, mercy! How in the world do you guys do even smaller doses like .0013 etc? How do you even read that small of a number on a 1mL syringe?

 

Moocho thanks!

 

Jeff

 

The easiest way to reduce your reduction(WOW) is to dilute more. if you are diluting 2mg into 200ml of liquid that gives you a solution that is .01mg per ml. If you are diluting 2mg into 400ml liquid that will give you a solution of .005mg/ml. and while your intake will double to 80ml per dose , a .01ml reduction is only half of what is was.

 

Hi jr. What were you referring to by the "WOW"?

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

[[jr...]]

Reducing the reduction!

[[Be...]]

Thanks for the reply Nova! But, I can't find a 5 10 ml pill microtaoer? I'm new to blogs as well! Grr. This is so difficult to start, especially when the waves hit while your posting. Can someone help find a liquid 100ml milk taper from 50 mg of Valium a day? Daily taper, just a 2 week schedule to get me started

[[Va...]]

Thanks for the reply Nova! But, I can't find a 5 10 ml pill microtaoer? I'm new to blogs as well! Grr. This is so difficult to start, especially when the waves hit while your posting. Can someone help find a liquid 100ml milk taper from 50 mg of Valium a day? Daily taper, just a 2 week schedule to get me started

Here is a spreadsheet you can use.

 

http://www.benzosupport.org/the_spreadsheet.htm

[[Be...]]

Thank you all for your help! Can someone write out a milk 100 ml daily micro taper using the beaker and milk. I'm trying to get completely off and don't know a reasonable level to start at? Ideally, I'd like to drop 10% a month. Which would be 5mg. Can someone write out a first 2week micro taper given that amount? How much do I take out of the cylinder ?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Love to all in this AWFUL situation

[[ed...]]

Thank you all for your help! Can someone write out a milk 100 ml daily micro taper using the beaker and milk. I'm trying to get completely off and don't know a reasonable level to start at? Ideally, I'd like to drop 10% a month. Which would be 5mg. Can someone write out a first 2week micro taper given that amount? How much do I take out of the cylinder ?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Love to all in this AWFUL situation

 

How many mg are your pills? And do you have access to 2mg pills if you don't already have them?

[[Lo...]]

Hi Everyone, I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for cutting/weighing a zopiclone tablet at very low dose? I have tapered from above 7.5 mg tablet per night to @1.1 mg over past 5 months.

 

The piece I am weighing is now 25 mg and very small. (Full 7.5 tablet) weighs @165 mg. I can hardly hold the small amount I am dealing with now. I doubt the scale is very accurate at this small amount. Zopiclone (a Z-drug for sleep) apparently does not mix with liquids.

 

Is there a way to better manage this taper or to increase accuracy of weighing?

 

I have done well even though I have had a very busy and sometimes challenging summer with a lot of travel (sleeping in strange beds and/or with a snorer nearby) and lots of family visiting. I have tried to speed up the taper but then sleep suffers. Perhaps things will be better now that I am back home in my own bed.

 

So, the question is how to best reduce further? And how low to go before jumping? Thanks, LL

[Guest [ba...]]

Hi Everyone, I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for cutting/weighing a zopiclone tablet at very low dose? I have tapered from above 7.5 mg tablet per night to @1.1 mg over past 5 months.

 

The piece I am weighing is now 25 mg and very small. (Full 7.5 tablet) weighs @165 mg. I can hardly hold the small amount I am dealing with now. I doubt the scale is very accurate at this small amount. Zopiclone (a Z-drug for sleep) apparently does not mix with liquids.

 

Is there a way to better manage this taper or to increase accuracy of weighing?

 

I have done well even though I have had a very busy and sometimes challenging summer with a lot of travel (sleeping in strange beds and/or with a snorer nearby) and lots of family visiting. I have tried to speed up the taper but then sleep suffers. Perhaps things will be better now that I am back home in my own bed.

 

So, the question is how to best reduce further? And how low to go before jumping? Thanks, LL

 

Just as you can add more liquid and do smaller cuts using a liquid titration, you can add more solid (carrier) and do smaller cuts using a solid titration.  The key is to crush and mix everything up really well.  Calcium salts are often used as pill fillers, so I'm thinking that something like a Tums would be a safe bet for a bulk material that you could add to your pill.  The new pill weight would be the combined weight of the pill plus a Tums. 

[[Lo...]]

Hi Everyone, I am wondering if anyone has suggestions for cutting/weighing a zopiclone tablet at very low dose? I have tapered from above 7.5 mg tablet per night to @1.1 mg over past 5 months.

 

The piece I am weighing is now 25 mg and very small. (Full 7.5 tablet) weighs @165 mg. I can hardly hold the small amount I am dealing with now. I doubt the scale is very accurate at this small amount. Zopiclone (a Z-drug for sleep) apparently does not mix with liquids.

 

Is there a way to better manage this taper or to increase accuracy of weighing?

 

I have done well even though I have had a very busy and sometimes challenging summer with a lot of travel (sleeping in strange beds and/or with a snorer nearby) and lots of family visiting. I have tried to speed up the taper but then sleep suffers. Perhaps things will be better now that I am back home in my own bed.

 

So, the question is how to best reduce further? And how low to go before jumping? Thanks, LL

 

Just as you can add more liquid and do smaller cuts using a liquid titration, you can add more solid (carrier) and do smaller cuts using a solid titration.  The key is to crush and mix everything up really well.  Calcium salts are often used as pill fillers, so I'm thinking that something like a Tums would be a safe bet for a bulk material that you could add to your pill.  The new pill weight would be the combined weight of the pill plus a Tums.

Wow! I never thought of doing that! It will be a bit of a fiddle but I will play around with it and see what I can do. Thanks. LL

[[Va...]]

Thank you all for your help! Can someone write out a milk 100 ml daily micro taper using the beaker and milk. I'm trying to get completely off and don't know a reasonable level to start at? Ideally, I'd like to drop 10% a month. Which would be 5mg. Can someone write out a first 2week micro taper given that amount? How much do I take out of the cylinder ?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Love to all in this AWFUL situation

Since no one has answered this is what I would do. I would use a 5mg pill dissolved in 10ml vodka or propylene glycol and 40ml of water for your daily wet dose. That would be .1mg of V per 10ml of water. You you will need a jar, a 10ml syringe and a 1ml syringe. Use the 10ml syringe to measure the solution.  Once mixed you will have a 10:1 ratio. Each day for 30 days, you will be removing an additional 1.8ml from the 10ml syringe for one dose and taking the rest in a dry dose. So the first day you remove 1.8ml and the second day 3.6 and so on. If you want to make more than a day's dose, you can use the same formula using 6 5mg pills 60ml propylene glycol or vodka and 240ml of water to make 6 days worth. I believe my math is right but someone might want to check. At the end of 30 days, you will have removed 5.4mg.  --V

[[jr...]]

Thank you all for your help! Can someone write out a milk 100 ml daily micro taper using the beaker and milk. I'm trying to get completely off and don't know a reasonable level to start at? Ideally, I'd like to drop 10% a month. Which would be 5mg. Can someone write out a first 2week micro taper given that amount? How much do I take out of the cylinder ?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Love to all in this AWFUL situation

 

We will need to know your poison, pill size, dosage, number of doses per day. It would be helpful if you create a signature

[[bu...]]

Thank you all for your help! Can someone write out a milk 100 ml daily micro taper using the beaker and milk. I'm trying to get completely off and don't know a reasonable level to start at? Ideally, I'd like to drop 10% a month. Which would be 5mg. Can someone write out a first 2week micro taper given that amount? How much do I take out of the cylinder ?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Love to all in this AWFUL situation

Since no one has answered this is what I would do. I would use a 5mg pill dissolved in 10ml vodka or propylene glycol and 40ml of water for your daily wet dose. That would be .1mg of V per 10ml of water. You you will need a jar, a 10ml syringe and a 1ml syringe. Use the 10ml syringe to measure the solution.  Once mixed you will have a 10:1 ratio. Each day for 30 days, you will be removing an additional 1.8ml from the 10ml syringe for one dose and taking the rest in a dry dose. So the first day you remove 1.8ml and the second day 3.6 and so on. If you want to make more than a day's dose, you can use the same formula using 6 5mg pills 60ml propylene glycol or vodka and 240ml of water to make 6 days worth. I believe my math is right but someone might want to check. At the end of 30 days, you will have removed 5.4mg.  --V

  I know how easy it is to get a decimal out of place, but...

 

5mg V in 50ml liquid is 1mg per 10ml, NOT .1 (1/10th)mg per 10ml.