Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[St...]]

StephenD I  used to get this all the time - try taking a hot bath for it - it does help.  I also have used an ice pack as well - and sometimes I take a tylenol. I had this starting at the lower doses and I did and do what Baylissa Johns' said to do - I 'just accept it' and go on with my day.  It hurts very badly sometimes and I get it in my head too (brain zaps) and arms as well - I just chalk it up to benzo withdrawal. It has gotten much better now that I am off of the benzos completely.  I did not stop my taper and though I still get this I feel much better off of the benzo than on it.

 

I guess part of what I'm asking is if for some people the vibrations, electric feeling, whatever came and went. I don't fear this pain. I fear the pain I felt in 2014 when every nerve in my body was on fire. I am trying to be accepting. I just want to try and keep the symptoms to a sane minimum. That was the whole point of the MT.

StephenD, I  experienced the same thing when I was CT'd in 2014. I had to reinstate. Like you every nerve in my body was on fire including my brain. Every time I cut I lived in fear that I would get those intense horrible sensations again. If my skin started burning a little I went into panic mode certain those unbearable sxs  would resurface with a vengeance...they have not. I do experience burning sensations from time, but they are tolerable and nothing compared to what I experienced in 2014. I hope this message brings you some comfort.

 

So I wonder what it means that I'm having the vibrating sensation and muscle tension now. I last had this at around 15mg and down on my first taper. I'm at 1.85mg right now. Does that mean I'm doing better this time because I'm only now experiencing what I last experienced at 15mg?

I don't have any experience at the lower levels of V. That being said, I think it your body is trying to adjust, or needs more time?

 

Possibly. I have another thread elsewhere where I asked about probiotics. I started a probiotic roughly the same day everything went haywire here. I wonder if I have to address my gut health more seriously first or later. I'm on a PPI (have been on one for 17 years) and given what I've read about how PPIs can make it harder for the system to eliminate benzos it makes me scared to tackle that. I don't even know what it would look like to heal my gut at the same time as the taper.

[[Le...]]

Badsocref, why is switching back and forth between solid and liquid not a good idea?  My curiosity is getting the better of me.

 

It's only because some people report that the liquid formulation is not as potent as the solid.  So going from solid to liquid may represent a cut and going from liquid to solid may represent an up-dose. 

 

I feel the same way about switching meds half-way through a taper.  I think that one should decide on a method and a benzo and stick with it.  For sure you should slow down or hold when necessary, but switching meds or approaches (e.g. solid <-> liquid) midstream rarely helps people.

When you put it like that it makes sense...even to me.

 

I'm heavily leaning towards using the scale. I have 2mg pills (Valium). Do you think they will work well with the scale?

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions. I really appreciate it I hope you have a restful evening.

 

I use the .001 Gemini scale for my 2mg valium pills and it works fine and dandy so long as you keep it calibrated (very easy). For peace of mind, I purchased 2 of them since they are so relatively inexpensive and double check each dose.

Thanks Edzo for the recommendation. I'm really behind on this thread...and probably messing everyone else up! Just wanted you to know I appreciate your help.

 

Hope you are doing well....you're getting closer to the end. Very happy for you and all the progress you have made.

[[ed...]]

Thanks Left!  I hope and pray the worst of it is behind me. I just need to maintain my patience and keep scratching and clawing away.

 

All the best to you and please keep in touch. I'll help however I am able.

 

--Ed

[[Ki...]]

Regarding gut bacteria, PPIs and benzos- article originally about chemo and grapefruit juice but you will get the gist of it. It does have some info on amounts used and time it has an effect on the enzymes that break down the meds.

https://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2012/08/09/a-glassful-of-grapefruit-juice-helps-the-medicine/

[[ed...]]

Regarding gut bacteria, PPIs and benzos- article originally about chemo and grapefruit juice but you will get the gist of it. It does have some info on amounts used and time it has an effect on the enzymes that break down the meds.

https://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2012/08/09/a-glassful-of-grapefruit-juice-helps-the-medicine/

 

Interesting read.

[[Ki...]]

I had a terrible time even trying to microtaper for a while, even .001 emg every other night and dosing 4x a day until I figured out what was wrong. So people taking PPIs and other drugs like antifungals can really be affected one way or the other and so many just don't know. Im going to continue micro- micro tapering, thats definitely the best I can do....

[[Ul...]]

Liquid titration question:  I realize that this is a really crazy question (and it should be easy), but I'm a little over the edge considering multiple surgeries, many many holds, lots of medical problems as a result of heavy benzo used, and being on K for over 22 years at a high dose (plus all the additional cocktails over the years). Math is a "no can do" thing right now. Anyway, I've been putting two 1mg K tablets into 194 milliliters of water (6 mL of vodka to dissolve the tablets) for a total of 200 milliliters of solution. I dose 3x/day and I've been decreasing one dose a day by .005mg (1/2 milliliter). I've had to hold again recently for lots of reasons, but I'd like to try cutting a very small amount now. Instead of decreasing by .005mg/day, I'd like to decrease by an even smaller amount of .0025mg/day.

 

I'm currently at 40mL for each of the three doses (that's where I've been holding) for a total of 1.2mg/day (still high, but much better than 6mg/day!!). I'm using a 50mL syringe and a 1mL syringe. If I wanted to continue decreasing .005mg/day, then I'd take 40mL from the large syringe two times and put into two of my mini jars, and then I'd take 39mL for the third dose and then use my 1mL syringe to add another 1/2mL to the jar with 39mL in it. So, I'd have 40mL for the first dose, 40mL for the second dose, and 39 1/2mL for the third dose. BUT, now I only want to reduce by .0025mg (1/4mL) on the third dose, for this example...so (and here's the benzo brain easy question that's over my head), wouldn't I now add solution into my 1mL syringe up to ".75" mark? It's doesn't actually say ".75" obviously because the area I would go to would really be the area between the "74" and "76" mark.

 

1) Is that correct?

2) Is there an easier way to do it? 

 

Common sense would tell me that I'm correct since I'd be adding .75mL into my dose jar (after adding the 39mL) as opposed to adding only .50mL, which means there's more liquid in the dose than before, BUT my sense isn't very common right now. I'm sure that's more than evident to you all.

 

And, mercy! How in the world do you guys do even smaller doses like .0013 etc? How do you even read that small of a number on a 1mL syringe?

 

Moocho thanks!

 

Jeff

[[St...]]

I had a terrible time even trying to microtaper for a while, even .001 emg every other night and dosing 4x a day until I figured out what was wrong. So people taking PPIs and other drugs like antifungals can really be affected one way or the other and so many just don't know. Im going to continue micro- micro tapering, thats definitely the best I can do....

 

I didn't 100 follow. Are you saying that you learned from the grapefruit thing to use it to strengthen the length your dose lasted? Or is that to say that I have to think about the reality that the PPI is going lengthen my taper and adjust accordingly?

[[jr...]]

Liquid titration question:  I realize that this is a really crazy question (and it should be easy), but I'm a little over the edge considering multiple surgeries, many many holds, lots of medical problems as a result of heavy benzo used, and being on K for over 22 years at a high dose (plus all the additional cocktails over the years). Math is a "no can do" thing right now. Anyway, I've been putting two 1mg K tablets into 194 milliliters of water (6 mL of vodka to dissolve the tablets) for a total of 200 milliliters of solution. I dose 3x/day and I've been decreasing one dose a day by .005mg (1/2 milliliter). I've had to hold again recently for lots of reasons, but I'd like to try cutting a very small amount now. Instead of decreasing by .005mg/day, I'd like to decrease by an even smaller amount of .0025mg/day.

 

I'm currently at 40mL for each of the three doses (that's where I've been holding) for a total of 1.2mg/day (still high, but much better than 6mg/day!!). I'm using a 50mL syringe and a 1mL syringe. If I wanted to continue decreasing .005mg/day, then I'd take 40mL from the large syringe two times and put into two of my mini jars, and then I'd take 39mL for the third dose and then use my 1mL syringe to add another 1/2mL to the jar with 39mL in it. So, I'd have 40mL for the first dose, 40mL for the second dose, and 39 1/2mL for the third dose. BUT, now I only want to reduce by .0025mg (1/4mL) on the third dose, for this example...so (and here's the benzo brain easy question that's over my head), wouldn't I now add solution into my 1mL syringe up to ".75" mark? It's doesn't actually say ".75" obviously because the area I would go to would really be the area between the "74" and "76" mark.

 

1) Is that correct?

2) Is there an easier way to do it? 

 

Common sense would tell me that I'm correct since I'd be adding .75mL into my dose jar (after adding the 39mL) as opposed to adding only .50mL, which means there's more liquid in the dose than before, BUT my sense isn't very common right now. I'm sure that's more than evident to you all.

 

And, mercy! How in the world do you guys do even smaller doses like .0013 etc? How do you even read that small of a number on a 1mL syringe?

 

Moocho thanks!

 

Jeff

 

The easiest way to reduce your reduction(WOW) is to dilute more. if you are diluting 2mg into 200ml of liquid that gives you a solution that is .01mg per ml. If you are diluting 2mg into 400ml liquid that will give you a solution of .005mg/ml. and while your intake will double to 80ml per dose , a .01ml reduction is only half of what is was.

[[Ki...]]

 

I was simply showing an article I thought might be helpful. I do it myself out of pretty much necessity because of my metabolism but others do it because they have to, as in your case. I dont look at it as dragging out my taper- and really we are only talking about a relatively short period of time no matter what.

 

I had a terrible time even trying to microtaper for a while, even .001 emg every other night and dosing 4x a day until I figured out what was wrong. So people taking PPIs and other drugs like antifungals can really be affected one way or the other and so many just don't know. Im going to continue micro- micro tapering, thats definitely the best I can do....

 

I didn't 100 follow. Are you saying that you learned from the grapefruit thing to use it to strengthen the length your dose lasted? Or is that to say that I have to think about the reality that the PPI is going lengthen my taper and adjust accordingly?

[[bu...]]

...wouldn't I now add solution into my 1mL syringe up to ".75" mark? It's doesn't actually say ".75" obviously because the area I would go to would really be the area between the "74" and "76" mark.

 

1) Is that correct?

2) Is there an easier way to do it? 

 

Common sense would tell me that I'm correct since I'd be adding .75mL into my dose jar (after adding the 39mL) as opposed to adding only .50mL, which means there is more liquid in the dose than before, BUT my sense isn't very common right now. I'm sure that's more than evident to you all.

 

And, mercy! How in the world do you guys do even smaller doses like .0013 etc? How do you even read that small of a number on a 1mL syringe?

 

Moocho thanks!

 

Jeff

  Yes, 75 (between 74 and 76) on a 1ml syringe is .75ml.  And at your dilution ratio (2mg=200ml) .75ml would be .0075mg. So your total dose would be 40+40+39+.75=119.75, or 1.1975mg.

 

And note that you already are working in tenths of thousandths  (.0001) precision.  Unlikely you will need smaller units than that.  But if you really do then increase the dilution ratio (eg: 1mg=1000ml)

[[St...]]

I see what you're saying. Thanks.

 

 

I was simply showing an article I thought might be helpful. I do it myself out of pretty much necessity because of my metabolism but others do it because they have to, as in your case. I dont look at it as dragging out my taper- and really we are only talking about a relatively short period of time no matter what.

 

I had a terrible time even trying to microtaper for a while, even .001 emg every other night and dosing 4x a day until I figured out what was wrong. So people taking PPIs and other drugs like antifungals can really be affected one way or the other and so many just don't know. Im going to continue micro- micro tapering, thats definitely the best I can do....

 

I didn't 100 follow. Are you saying that you learned from the grapefruit thing to use it to strengthen the length your dose lasted? Or is that to say that I have to think about the reality that the PPI is going lengthen my taper and adjust accordingly?

[[no...]]

Can someone please help me with what weight my pills and bits should wiegh , I'm losing the plot and can't think straight. I'm trying to weigh a 2mg pill but want to take 1/8 away what weight should it be please?  Thanks

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[bu...]]

Can someone please help me with what weight my pills and bits should wiegh , I'm losing the plot and can't think straight. I'm trying to weigh a 2mg pill but want to take 1/8 away what weight should it be please?  Thanks

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

We need to know how much your tablets actually weigh.  Depending on the brand, a 2mg V tablet typically weighs ~ 135-150mg .

 

If your tablet weighs 150mg, then 1/8 would be 150/8=18.75mg.

[[no...]]

Can someone please help me with what weight my pills and bits should wiegh , I'm losing the plot and can't think straight. I'm trying to weigh a 2mg pill but want to take 1/8 away what weight should it be please?  Thanks

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

We need to know how much your tablets actually weigh.  Depending on the brand, a 2mg V tablet typically weighs ~ 135-150mg .

 

If your tablet weighs 150mg, then 1/8 would be 150/8=18.75mg.

anywhere from 175 to 176-177, some weigh less but 176-176 is the more common I think.

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[no...]]

What I was doing was cutting a pill up then weighing 1mg, then1/4 then an 1/8 separately and was doing ok, but I'm having seep disturbance problems with a noisy neighbour right through the nigh, and lack of sleep plus withdrawal I'm lost the plot.

 

I couldn't  what a 1/4 or 1/8 should weigh,, I look at the scale all I can see is 0.000 and can't remember  what numbers I'm supposed to be looking for as in 1mg is 0.100, then 1/2 should be 0.500 and 1/8 should be 0.125? Is that correct? I'm not sure about anything at all right now nothing is registering properly. One minute it looks okay then my brain's saying its all wrong and I panic like mad as I've got waves of high anxiety.

 

Nova xxx :smitten:

[[bu...]]

Can someone please help me with what weight my pills and bits should wiegh , I'm losing the plot and can't think straight. I'm trying to weigh a 2mg pill but want to take 1/8 away what weight should it be please?  Thanks

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

We need to know how much your tablets actually weigh.  Depending on the brand, a 2mg V tablet typically weighs ~ 135-150mg .

 

If your tablet weighs 150mg, then 1/8 would be 150/8=18.75mg.

anywhere from 175 to 176-177, some weigh less but 176-176 is the more common I think.

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

OK, if your tablet weighs 175mg, then 1/8 is 21.875mg. (175/8=21.875)  1/4 would be 175/4=43.75.

 

Regarding your scale, 1 gram (g)=1000 milligrams (mg).  So 175mg=.175g.

 

[[no...]]

Can someone please help me with what weight my pills and bits should wiegh , I'm losing the plot and can't think straight. I'm trying to weigh a 2mg pill but want to take 1/8 away what weight should it be please?  Thanks

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

We need to know how much your tablets actually weigh.  Depending on the brand, a 2mg V tablet typically weighs ~ 135-150mg .

 

If your tablet weighs 150mg, then 1/8 would be 150/8=18.75mg.

anywhere from 175 to 176-177, some weigh less but 176-176 is the more common I think.

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

OK, if your tablet weighs 175mg, then 1/8 is 21.875mg. (175/8=21.875)  1/4 would be 175/4=43.75.

 

Regarding your scale, 1 gram (g)=1000 milligrams (mg).  So 175mg=.175g.

Thank you so much Builder    Thank you so much Builder    Had the pills been  exactly 200, would the weight I was using as above been rector?  Sorry but I need to make sure what I think is correct is so as my mind and perception is a wreak and I'm not sure whats  right or real right now.

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[bu...]]

 

The tablet strength, 2mg really has nothing to do with the weight of the tablet.  Often 2mg, 5mg, even 10mg tablets will weigh about the same.

 

If you are using a scale to taper, then as generalisation, the % you reduce the weight will approximately reduce the dose.  If you reduce the weight of your 2mg tablet by 1/8, then you will approximately lower the dose by 1/8.

[[no...]]

 

The tablet strength, 2mg really has nothing to do with the weight of the tablet.  Often 2mg, 5mg, even 10mg tablets will weigh about the same.

 

If you are using a scale to taper, then as generalisation, the % you reduce the weight will approximately reduce the dose.  If you reduce the weight of your 2mg tablet by 1/8, then you will approximately lower the dose by 1/8.

Thanks so much for explaining that to me Builder  another buddie also made me aware of this too 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[ed...]]

What I was doing was cutting a pill up then weighing 1mg, then1/4 then an 1/8 separately and was doing ok, but I'm having seep disturbance problems with a noisy neighbour right through the nigh, and lack of sleep plus withdrawal I'm lost the plot.

 

I couldn't  what a 1/4 or 1/8 should weigh,, I look at the scale all I can see is 0.000 and can't remember  what numbers I'm supposed to be looking for as in 1mg is 0.100, then 1/2 should be 0.500 and 1/8 should be 0.125? Is that correct? I'm not sure about anything at all right now nothing is registering properly. One minute it looks okay then my brain's saying its all wrong and I panic like mad as I've got waves of high anxiety.

 

Nova xxx :smitten:

 

May I suggest weighing out 10 or 20 pills all at once so you can find out an average pill weight. This way you're not messing around with weighing out each individual pill every day. The long half life of Valium will offset any small variances.

 

Best,

Ed

[[no...]]

What I was doing was cutting a pill up then weighing 1mg, then1/4 then an 1/8 separately and was doing ok, but I'm having seep disturbance problems with a noisy neighbour right through the nigh, and lack of sleep plus withdrawal I'm lost the plot.

 

I couldn't  what a 1/4 or 1/8 should weigh,, I look at the scale all I can see is 0.000 and can't remember  what numbers I'm supposed to be looking for as in 1mg is 0.100, then 1/2 should be 0.500 and 1/8 should be 0.125? Is that correct? I'm not sure about anything at all right now nothing is registering properly. One minute it looks okay then my brain's saying its all wrong and I panic like mad as I've got waves of high anxiety.

 

Nova xxx :smitten:

 

May I suggest weighing out 10 or 20 pills all at once so you can find out an average pill weight. This way you're not messing around with weighing out each individual pill every day. The long half life of Valium will offset any small variances.

 

Best,

Ed

You certainly can Ed   Thanks  If I run into blank brain alley again which no doubt I will,  I will post on the C+H thread to ask you for help Thank you again for your help.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[ed...]]

What I was doing was cutting a pill up then weighing 1mg, then1/4 then an 1/8 separately and was doing ok, but I'm having seep disturbance problems with a noisy neighbour right through the nigh, and lack of sleep plus withdrawal I'm lost the plot.

 

I couldn't  what a 1/4 or 1/8 should weigh,, I look at the scale all I can see is 0.000 and can't remember  what numbers I'm supposed to be looking for as in 1mg is 0.100, then 1/2 should be 0.500 and 1/8 should be 0.125? Is that correct? I'm not sure about anything at all right now nothing is registering properly. One minute it looks okay then my brain's saying its all wrong and I panic like mad as I've got waves of high anxiety.

 

Nova xxx :smitten:

 

May I suggest weighing out 10 or 20 pills all at once so you can find out an average pill weight. This way you're not messing around with weighing out each individual pill every day. The long half life of Valium will offset any small variances.

 

Best,

Ed

You certainly can Ed   Thanks  If I run into blank brain alley again which no doubt I will,  I will post on the C+H thread to ask you for help Thank you again for your help.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

[[bu...]]

  Thanks so much for explaining that to me Builder  another buddie also made me aware of this too 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

You mean...you're involved with someone else? 

[[St...]]

So I have another question about what happened to me recently.

 

I on 3/28 I was at 3.56. I went down by 0.02 or 0.01 with a couple holds until 8/20, or so I thought. Then I hit the wall and started holding at 1.85. What's the math on how big of a drop that is going by the bi-weekly 10 percent idea.?