Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Le...]]

If you think your metabolism is super fast, then you could split the dose of your valium into two or three doses.  Usually, V is long-lived enough that multiple doses aren't necessary, but it shouldn't hurt to try splitting the doses.  Maybe you're already doing that??

 

Yes, I dose 4xs a day, otherwise I go into interdose withdrawal. Genetic testing confirmed  that I'm an ultrarapid metabolizer of Valium.

 

Some people say that they don't feel like they get the same amount of medicine when they do liquid titration.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I've seen a fair number of people say that.  Perhaps your experience was similar to theirs.

 

I don't understand it either, but maybe I fall into this group?...idk

 

Are you taking liquid now or solid (or both)?

 

I'm taking all solid right now and am holding. I was on liquid for 2 months (May to July) and never adjusted to it.

 

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Are you feeling better now that you switched back over to solid??

[[li...]]

Thanks Builder. I have never felt good on my liquified klonopin--dissolvable wafers in milk--except for one week after my updose I had about ten days of decent afternoons. Why would dry cutting better?  I thought the idea of the liquid titration was that it was much more accurate. I don't feel the way I felt on klonopin before but I only ever took at night and now I'm splitting my doses into four a day (only cuz that's how I was dosing ativan before my crossover 15 months ago). I'm going to go down to three a day and see if it helps. How can you be accurate in dosing by crushing and weighing pills when you're talking about removing .01 or even .001 mg/day?  Can't wrap my head around it. Then do you just pop the powder in your mouth and swallow with milk?

[[ga...]]

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

The $25 Amazon scale does a pretty decent job for the money.  If used properly, they're good to 2-3 mg accuracy.  That's about as accurate as using a syringe.  Both methods of micro tapering are equally valid approaches.  Solid or liquid is more a matter of personal preference.  There's always going to be some error, but the variation due to metabolism far outweighs the variation due to weighing or measuring errors (if you're doing it properly).

Hi Badsocref, I had problems with the daily liquid titration method. I felt horrible the entire time. I'm holding at 14mg and considering dry cutting using the Gemini scale. I'm an ultrarapid metabolizer of Valium. Is it possible the way I metabolism the drug was the problem? I'm throwing ideas around, trying to figure out how to proceed. Thanks much, and hope you're doing well.

 

Left xxx

 

I sympathize with you. I am also an ultra-fast metabolizer of V, which is why I am using L. But L only comes in capsules here, so I have had to liquid titrate it. I am going to try liquid for my Q also (am at less than the smallest tablet) because I am having really bad symptoms and am trying to get to the bottom of why. Wondering if my dry cutting is just not that good. Would not be surprised! Also, I want to cut smaller amounts than my scale will allow. Going with diluting to 200ml. The more dilute the liquid, the less little errors count. So I'm "counting" on that! BTW, I dose my L 3 times a day. It is similar to V in half life and supposedly you can dose once or twice, but I does 3 times and feel better.

[[bu...]]

Thanks Builder. I have never felt good on my liquified klonopin--dissolvable wafers in milk--except for one week after my updose I had about ten days of decent afternoons. Why would dry cutting better?  I thought the idea of the liquid titration was that it was much more accurate. I don't feel the way I felt on klonopin before but I only ever took at night and now I'm splitting my doses into four a day (only cuz that's how I was dosing ativan before my crossover 15 months ago). I'm going to go down to three a day and see if it helps. How can you be accurate in dosing by crushing and weighing pills when you're talking about removing .01 or even .001 mg/day?  Can't wrap my head around it. Then do you just pop the powder in your mouth and swallow with milk?

 

Liquid is probably more "accurate", but the real advantage of liquid is you can make much smaller dose adjustments.  With liquid, you can easily meter out to .01 (hundredths) ,or even  .001 (thousandths) of a mg.  During one part of my taper, I was cutting .0125mg/day.  That really isn't possible dry cutting, even with a gram scale.

[[an...]]

Thanks Builder. I have never felt good on my liquified klonopin--dissolvable wafers in milk--except for one week after my updose I had about ten days of decent afternoons. Why would dry cutting better?  I thought the idea of the liquid titration was that it was much more accurate. I don't feel the way I felt on klonopin before but I only ever took at night and now I'm splitting my doses into four a day (only cuz that's how I was dosing ativan before my crossover 15 months ago). I'm going to go down to three a day and see if it helps. How can you be accurate in dosing by crushing and weighing pills when you're talking about removing .01 or even .001 mg/day?  Can't wrap my head around it. Then do you just pop the powder in your mouth and swallow with milk?

 

Liquid is probably more "accurate", but the real advantage of liquid is you can make much smaller dose adjustments.  With liquid, you can easily meter out to .01 (hundredths) ,or even  .001 (thousandths) of a mg.  During one part of my taper, I was cutting .0125mg/day.  That really isn't possible dry cutting, even with a gram scale.

 

:thumbsup:  Liquid allows for much smaller cuts. 

[[li...]]

Thanks Builder and Anne. One thing I've done right in this whole thing

[Guest [ba...]]

Liquid is probably more "accurate", but the real advantage of liquid is you can make much smaller dose adjustments.  With liquid, you can easily meter out to .01 (hundredths) ,or even  .001 (thousandths) of a mg.  During one part of my taper, I was cutting .0125mg/day.  That really isn't possible dry cutting, even with a gram scale.

 

Yeah, one advantage of liquid is that you can dilute to a pretty large volume and withdraw infinitesimally small amounts.  With dry cuts and a 2 mg balance sensitivity, cuts of thousandths of a mg are not possible.  However, a cut of 2 mg from a 170 mg pill (containing 1 mg of benzo) is on the order of a 0.012 mg cut, so you could have done ~0.0125 mg/day.  I guess I would contend that a cut of a 1000th of a mg of benzo is essentially a hold.

 

Again, it's mostly a matter of personal preference whether to do liquid or solid.  My only suggestion is that people not go back and forth between solid and liquid. 

[[ga...]]

Liquid is probably more "accurate", but the real advantage of liquid is you can make much smaller dose adjustments.  With liquid, you can easily meter out to .01 (hundredths) ,or even  .001 (thousandths) of a mg.  During one part of my taper, I was cutting .0125mg/day.  That really isn't possible dry cutting, even with a gram scale.

 

Yeah, one advantage of liquid is that you can dilute to a pretty large volume and withdraw infinitesimally small amounts.  With dry cuts and a 2 mg balance sensitivity, cuts of thousandths of a mg are not possible.  However, a cut of 2 mg from a 170 mg pill (containing 1 mg of benzo) is on the order of a 0.012 mg cut, so you could have done ~0.0125 mg/day.  I guess I would contend that a cut of a 1000th of a mg of benzo is essentially a hold.

 

Again, it's mostly a matter of personal preference whether to do liquid or solid.  My only suggestion is that people not go back and forth between solid and liquid.

 

In my case, the Seroquel comes in a 25mg tablet that only weighs 101mg. So a quarter of the tablet is med. Dry cutting that just wasn't working any more. I'm hoping I can make smaller, more accurate cuts with a very dilute liquid.

 

[[St...]]

So I've been symptomatic this week finally. Or notably symptomatic. That weird symptom, I'm not even sure what to call it, where you feel like your legs are "vibrating". They're not twitching where I can visibly see the muscles moving. I had that last taper in 2014 for most of the taper. They just feel active. Maybe this is the "electricity" feeling, but since I wasn't part of any groups during my first taper I didn't know what it was.

 

I've also had tightness in my neck and my back. I'm really worried that this means I'm either going into tolerance withdrawal or hitting the point I did in 2014 where I crashed. Have people experienced these symptoms in normal tapers? I don't remember much of 2014 that well. Memory loss and cog fog and all of that.

 

I'm really anxious because we just figured out we're not staying in Australia past the end of this year. So I'm in this weird in-between state where it makes me tempted to hold or maybe even go up slightly until we get back to America. I have to be able to fly home to where I can get help if it gets to that.

[[Kg...]]

StephenD I  used to get this all the time - try taking a hot bath for it - it does help.  I also have used an ice pack as well - and sometimes I take a tylenol. I had this starting at the lower doses and I did and do what Baylissa Johns' said to do - I 'just accept it' and go on with my day.  It hurts very badly sometimes and I get it in my head too (brain zaps) and arms as well - I just chalk it up to benzo withdrawal. It has gotten much better now that I am off of the benzos completely.  I did not stop my taper and though I still get this I feel much better off of the benzo than on it. 

[[St...]]

StephenD I  used to get this all the time - try taking a hot bath for it - it does help.  I also have used an ice pack as well - and sometimes I take a tylenol. I had this starting at the lower doses and I did and do what Baylissa Johns' said to do - I 'just accept it' and go on with my day.  It hurts very badly sometimes and I get it in my head too (brain zaps) and arms as well - I just chalk it up to benzo withdrawal. It has gotten much better now that I am off of the benzos completely.  I did not stop my taper and though I still get this I feel much better off of the benzo than on it.

 

I think my big (huge?) fear is that my first taper ended so badly. It ended with me having burning nerve pain across my entire body, extreme sensitivity to noise and light, extreme weight loss and I was ideating constantly for weeks until I reinstated. This level of pain? I could endure this level of pain for a while. That's okay. I'm just afraid that I'm heading for the edge of the cliff again. If this is just normal stuff that people endure at my level (1.85mg), even during a microtaper, I can try and live with it.

[[ed...]]

Stephen,

 

I don't get the leg electricity, but I sure do get the sore leg muscles without prompting. Also, the sore neck episodes I've had have been crazy. I mean, I might have a slightly larger than average pumpkin, but there is NO WAY my neck muscles should have felt the way they did.  It was so bad that when I drove, I had to push my head back against the head rest to cradle and immobilize my head. I still get the leg soreness regularly. The neck issues have subsided over the past 1mg.

 

Best,

Ed

[[Le...]]

Are you feeling better now that you switched back over to solid??

Yes I feel better...but I've also been holding about 2 months.

 

Left xxx

[[Le...]]

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

The $25 Amazon scale does a pretty decent job for the money.  If used properly, they're good to 2-3 mg accuracy.  That's about as accurate as using a syringe.  Both methods of micro tapering are equally valid approaches.  Solid or liquid is more a matter of personal preference.  There's always going to be some error, but the variation due to metabolism far outweighs the variation due to weighing or measuring errors (if you're doing it properly).

Hi Badsocref, I had problems with the daily liquid titration method. I felt horrible the entire time. I'm holding at 14mg and considering dry cutting using the Gemini scale. I'm an ultrarapid metabolizer of Valium. Is it possible the way I metabolism the drug was the problem? I'm throwing ideas around, trying to figure out how to proceed. Thanks much, and hope you're doing well.

 

Left xxx

 

I sympathize with you. I am also an ultra-fast metabolizer of V, which is why I am using L. But L only comes in capsules here, so I have had to liquid titrate it. I am going to try liquid for my Q also (am at less than the smallest tablet) because I am having really bad symptoms and am trying to get to the bottom of why. Wondering if my dry cutting is just not that good. Would not be surprised! Also, I want to cut smaller amounts than my scale will allow. Going with diluting to 200ml. The more dilute the liquid, the less little errors count. So I'm "counting" on that! BTW, I dose my L 3 times a day. It is similar to V in half life and supposedly you can dose once or twice, but I does 3 times and feel better.

Thanks Gard  Trying to figure out the best way to taper is a pain in the butt. I was terribly symptomatic with the liquid titration...maybe microcuts using the scale would work better. Then again I've no clue how to use the scale.   I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time with the taper. Are you tapering 2 meds at the same time or one? Sorry, I get confused easily and can't see your siggy from here.  I hope diluting your meds gives you some much needed relief.

[[Le...]]

Liquid is probably more "accurate", but the real advantage of liquid is you can make much smaller dose adjustments.  With liquid, you can easily meter out to .01 (hundredths) ,or even  .001 (thousandths) of a mg.  During one part of my taper, I was cutting .0125mg/day.  That really isn't possible dry cutting, even with a gram scale.

 

Yeah, one advantage of liquid is that you can dilute to a pretty large volume and withdraw infinitesimally small amounts.  With dry cuts and a 2 mg balance sensitivity, cuts of thousandths of a mg are not possible.  However, a cut of 2 mg from a 170 mg pill (containing 1 mg of benzo) is on the order of a 0.012 mg cut, so you could have done ~0.0125 mg/day.  I guess I would contend that a cut of a 1000th of a mg of benzo is essentially a hold.

 

Again, it's mostly a matter of personal preference whether to do liquid or solid.  My only suggestion is that people not go back and forth between solid and liquid.

Badsocref, why is switching back and forth between solid and liquid not a good idea?  My curiosity is getting the better of me.

[[ga...]]

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

The $25 Amazon scale does a pretty decent job for the money.  If used properly, they're good to 2-3 mg accuracy.  That's about as accurate as using a syringe.  Both methods of micro tapering are equally valid approaches.  Solid or liquid is more a matter of personal preference.  There's always going to be some error, but the variation due to metabolism far outweighs the variation due to weighing or measuring errors (if you're doing it properly).

Hi Badsocref, I had problems with the daily liquid titration method. I felt horrible the entire time. I'm holding at 14mg and considering dry cutting using the Gemini scale. I'm an ultrarapid metabolizer of Valium. Is it possible the way I metabolism the drug was the problem? I'm throwing ideas around, trying to figure out how to proceed. Thanks much, and hope you're doing well.

 

Left xxx

 

I sympathize with you. I am also an ultra-fast metabolizer of V, which is why I am using L. But L only comes in capsules here, so I have had to liquid titrate it. I am going to try liquid for my Q also (am at less than the smallest tablet) because I am having really bad symptoms and am trying to get to the bottom of why. Wondering if my dry cutting is just not that good. Would not be surprised! Also, I want to cut smaller amounts than my scale will allow. Going with diluting to 200ml. The more dilute the liquid, the less little errors count. So I'm "counting" on that! BTW, I dose my L 3 times a day. It is similar to V in half life and supposedly you can dose once or twice, but I does 3 times and feel better.

Thanks Gard  Trying to figure out the best way to taper is a pain in the butt. I was terribly symptomatic with the liquid titration...maybe microcuts using the scale would work better. Then again I've no clue how to use the scale.   I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time with the taper. Are you tapering 2 meds at the same time or one? Sorry, I get confused easily and can't see your siggy from here.  I hope diluting your meds gives you some much needed relief.

 

Hi, Lefty. I tapered my benzo for a long time and then held and then tried to taper my Q. Now I am trying to hold both but my dry cuts are not so accurate so I don't think it's really a hold until I get that better. My Q tablet is 25mg of med in only 101 mg of the whole tablet, so each mg cut (smallest an amazon scale can do)is quite a large chunk of med. That magnifies small mistakes, which are inevitable no matter which method you use. Using a very dilute liquid will minimize my mistakes and should work better for me.

 

Sometimes liquids don't work out for people because they don't know how to use a graduated cylinder and oral syringe correctly. I have no background in such things, so I went on youtube and found demonstrations of how to use them correctly. Seeing it done by a nurse on a video helped tremendously with my accuracy. I'm very confident that I know how to measure liquids very accurately. My biggest problem is clumsiness and spilling. No spilling allowed!

 

Scales have their own quirks and need to be treated very carefully to get as close a measurement as possible. The calibration alone drove me nuts. Factoring in vibration, leveling, drafts, room temperature, humidity, exact centering of the pill on the pan, etc., I just found it all too slow and too difficult. And, of course, no matter how accurate, unless I spent thousands of dollars on a scale, the smallest cut I could do was 1 mg. I can get smaller than that with liquid.

 

Good luck with your decision. I suggest doing some sleuthing online and finding out as much as you can about each method before making any decision. I agree that flipping back and forth is not a good idea. My reasoning is that you do your best tapering when you are consistent. And that means right down to making and measuring your liquid exactly the same way each time or using your scale exactly the same way each time. (I even put mine in the same spot on the kitchen counter every time.) You can't be consistent if you're switching back and forth between two different methods

 

One way or another, we can do this!

 

Gard

[Guest [ba...]]

Badsocref, why is switching back and forth between solid and liquid not a good idea?  My curiosity is getting the better of me.

 

It's only because some people report that the liquid formulation is not as potent as the solid.  So going from solid to liquid may represent a cut and going from liquid to solid may represent an up-dose. 

 

I feel the same way about switching meds half-way through a taper.  I think that one should decide on a method and a benzo and stick with it.  For sure you should slow down or hold when necessary, but switching meds or approaches (e.g. solid <-> liquid) midstream rarely helps people.

[[St...]]

StephenD I  used to get this all the time - try taking a hot bath for it - it does help.  I also have used an ice pack as well - and sometimes I take a tylenol. I had this starting at the lower doses and I did and do what Baylissa Johns' said to do - I 'just accept it' and go on with my day.  It hurts very badly sometimes and I get it in my head too (brain zaps) and arms as well - I just chalk it up to benzo withdrawal. It has gotten much better now that I am off of the benzos completely.  I did not stop my taper and though I still get this I feel much better off of the benzo than on it.

 

I guess part of what I'm asking is if for some people the vibrations, electric feeling, whatever came and went. I don't fear this pain. I fear the pain I felt in 2014 when every nerve in my body was on fire. I am trying to be accepting. I just want to try and keep the symptoms to a sane minimum. That was the whole point of the MT.

[[Le...]]

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

The $25 Amazon scale does a pretty decent job for the money.  If used properly, they're good to 2-3 mg accuracy.  That's about as accurate as using a syringe.  Both methods of micro tapering are equally valid approaches.  Solid or liquid is more a matter of personal preference.  There's always going to be some error, but the variation due to metabolism far outweighs the variation due to weighing or measuring errors (if you're doing it properly).

Hi Badsocref, I had problems with the daily liquid titration method. I felt horrible the entire time. I'm holding at 14mg and considering dry cutting using the Gemini scale. I'm an ultrarapid metabolizer of Valium. Is it possible the way I metabolism the drug was the problem? I'm throwing ideas around, trying to figure out how to proceed. Thanks much, and hope you're doing well.

 

Left xxx

 

I sympathize with you. I am also an ultra-fast metabolizer of V, which is why I am using L. But L only comes in capsules here, so I have had to liquid titrate it. I am going to try liquid for my Q also (am at less than the smallest tablet) because I am having really bad symptoms and am trying to get to the bottom of why. Wondering if my dry cutting is just not that good. Would not be surprised! Also, I want to cut smaller amounts than my scale will allow. Going with diluting to 200ml. The more dilute the liquid, the less little errors count. So I'm "counting" on that! BTW, I dose my L 3 times a day. It is similar to V in half life and supposedly you can dose once or twice, but I does 3 times and feel better.

Thanks Gard  Trying to figure out the best way to taper is a pain in the butt. I was terribly symptomatic with the liquid titration...maybe microcuts using the scale would work better. Then again I've no clue how to use the scale.   I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time with the taper. Are you tapering 2 meds at the same time or one? Sorry, I get confused easily and can't see your siggy from here.  I hope diluting your meds gives you some much needed relief.

 

Hi, Lefty. I tapered my benzo for a long time and then held and then tried to taper my Q. Now I am trying to hold both but my dry cuts are not so accurate so I don't think it's really a hold until I get that better. My Q tablet is 25mg of med in only 101 mg of the whole tablet, so each mg cut (smallest an amazon scale can do)is quite a large chunk of med. That magnifies small mistakes, which are inevitable no matter which method you use. Using a very dilute liquid will minimize my mistakes and should work better for me.

 

Sometimes liquids don't work out for people because they don't know how to use a graduated cylinder and oral syringe correctly. I have no background in such things, so I went on youtube and found demonstrations of how to use them correctly. Seeing it done by a nurse on a video helped tremendously with my accuracy. I'm very confident that I know how to measure liquids very accurately. My biggest problem is clumsiness and spilling. No spilling allowed!

 

Scales have their own quirks and need to be treated very carefully to get as close a measurement as possible. The calibration alone drove me nuts. Factoring in vibration, leveling, drafts, room temperature, humidity, exact centering of the pill on the pan, etc., I just found it all too slow and too difficult. And, of course, no matter how accurate, unless I spent thousands of dollars on a scale, the smallest cut I could do was 1 mg. I can get smaller than that with liquid.

 

Good luck with your decision. I suggest doing some sleuthing online and finding out as much as you can about each method before making any decision. I agree that flipping back and forth is not a good idea. My reasoning is that you do your best tapering when you are consistent. And that means right down to making and measuring your liquid exactly the same way each time or using your scale exactly the same way each time. (I even put mine in the same spot on the kitchen counter every time.) You can't be consistent if you're switching back and forth between two different methods

 

One way or another, we can do this!

 

Gard

Gard this is the 3rd time I've tried to reply to you. I'm on my tablet and I keep deleting my response. This will be shorter than I intended but I'm about to throw this tablet out the window...I'm blaming it all on the benzos.

 

Diluting a 25mg pill makes sense to me. I can't imagine how difficult it is to accurately cut it into little pieces. Builder helped me tremendously when I switched to liquid. I tormented him with many, many questions. But by the time I started liquifying part of my dose I had a system in place and maintained consistency throughout...yes, consistency is key 

 

I have 2mg pills of Valium.  I hope the small medication amount will work in my favor if I switch to the scale.

 

Signing off before I lose this post too 

 

Hope you rest well this evening, and thanks for taking the time to help out.  Left a/k/a Lefty 

[[Le...]]

Badsocref, why is switching back and forth between solid and liquid not a good idea?  My curiosity is getting the better of me.

 

It's only because some people report that the liquid formulation is not as potent as the solid.  So going from solid to liquid may represent a cut and going from liquid to solid may represent an up-dose. 

 

I feel the same way about switching meds half-way through a taper.  I think that one should decide on a method and a benzo and stick with it.  For sure you should slow down or hold when necessary, but switching meds or approaches (e.g. solid <-> liquid) midstream rarely helps people.

When you put it like that it makes sense...even to me.

 

I'm heavily leaning towards using the scale. I have 2mg pills (Valium). Do you think they will work well with the scale?

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions. I really appreciate it I hope you have a restful evening.

[[Le...]]

StephenD I  used to get this all the time - try taking a hot bath for it - it does help.  I also have used an ice pack as well - and sometimes I take a tylenol. I had this starting at the lower doses and I did and do what Baylissa Johns' said to do - I 'just accept it' and go on with my day.  It hurts very badly sometimes and I get it in my head too (brain zaps) and arms as well - I just chalk it up to benzo withdrawal. It has gotten much better now that I am off of the benzos completely.  I did not stop my taper and though I still get this I feel much better off of the benzo than on it.

 

I guess part of what I'm asking is if for some people the vibrations, electric feeling, whatever came and went. I don't fear this pain. I fear the pain I felt in 2014 when every nerve in my body was on fire. I am trying to be accepting. I just want to try and keep the symptoms to a sane minimum. That was the whole point of the MT.

StephenD, I  experienced the same thing when I was CT'd in 2014. I had to reinstate. Like you every nerve in my body was on fire including my brain. Every time I cut I lived in fear that I would get those intense horrible sensations again. If my skin started burning a little I went into panic mode certain those unbearable sxs  would resurface with a vengeance...they have not. I do experience burning sensations from time, but they are tolerable and nothing compared to what I experienced in 2014. I hope this message brings you some comfort.

[[ga...]]

Badsocref, why is switching back and forth between solid and liquid not a good idea?  My curiosity is getting the better of me.

 

It's only because some people report that the liquid formulation is not as potent as the solid.  So going from solid to liquid may represent a cut and going from liquid to solid may represent an up-dose. 

 

I feel the same way about switching meds half-way through a taper.  I think that one should decide on a method and a benzo and stick with it.  For sure you should slow down or hold when necessary, but switching meds or approaches (e.g. solid <-> liquid) midstream rarely helps people.

 

That was not my experience and I think others who would say the same. What you tend to read on the forums are the people who are having problems with changes. Those who made changes smoothly don't seem to be as vocal.

 

I started with Xanax tablets. I switched to pharmaceutical liquid to make my cuts and that went fine at the beginning. I loved the ease of working with the liquid. I hit a point in my Xanax taper that I absolutely could not go on. I had to dose it 6 times/day. I held. I micro-tapered. Nothing worked. I was jumping out of my skin and barely able to function on the Xanax. I very slowly crossed to Librium. Half way crossed, I was stable enough to taper more Xanax. Then my doctor wanted me to finish the cross, so I did. That last part was hard, but I made it across, tapered some more to get down to even capsules, and then adjusted with a long hold. I am more functional on the dose of Librium I am on now than I ever was on the Xanax. I only have to dose 3 times/day so my life does not revolve around timers and medications any more. That alone was worth the trouble. I am also glad to not be on such a short-acting benzo as I appear to be a rapid metabolizer. It was a bad med for me from the start.

 

My changes were always slow and cautious. I did not flip back and forth. I progressed in one direction. I would always urge caution with changes. Make as small a change as possible and see how it works. (Liquifying only part of your dose, for example.) In my case, though they were difficult, overall the changes have been for the better.

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

 

Gard this is the 3rd time I've tried to reply to you. I'm on my tablet and I keep deleting my response. This will be shorter than I intended but I'm about to throw this tablet out the window...I'm blaming it all on the benzos.

 

Diluting a 25mg pill makes sense to me. I can't imagine how difficult it is to accurately cut it into little pieces. Builder helped me tremendously when I switched to liquid. I tormented him with many, many questions. But by the time I started liquifying part of my dose I had a system in place and maintained consistency throughout...yes, consistency is key 

 

I have 2mg pills of Valium.  I hope the small medication amount will work in my favor if I switch to the scale.

 

Signing off before I lose this post too 

 

Hope you rest well this evening, and thanks for taking the time to help out.  Left a/k/a Lefty 

 

Oh no, Lefty, don't throw your tablet out the window! But definitely blame it on the benzos.

 

I do think that the med:filler ratio probably affects how accurate the cuts can be with a scale. I also think some people can just tolerate cutting some meds on a scale and some can't. Quite awhile ago I tapered my trazodone all the way off with a scale. I didn't seem to be as sensitive to the trazodone cuts. Can't remember the med:filler ratio with those. But I do remember how much I hated dry cutting! My son used to live here and would do it for me quite often. Young guy with a steady hand and a great ability to focus. Quite the opposite of me!

 

So onward and upward with my liquid titration. I've done it in a solution with my Librium (which only comes in capsules so made liquid the obvious choice). Now I need to do it in suspension with Q. There are many videos on youtube of people suspending benzos to taper them. I guess that was the original method. And it looks like it worked. After all, these people are able to make youtube videos that were stable and clear in the middle of their tapered, so they must have been doing something right, right? I am just chicken about change. By tomorrow I will probably be feeling less chicken and much better.

 

I posted above about my long journey to this point. It is a marathon, indeed. I have settled down to accepting that somewhat. Slow and steady. Slow and steady. I think a combo of MT and holds (weeks or months, whatever it takes) is probably the best way to do this for people who are very sensitive or poly-drugged. My doctor wants me to take even more Q and other stuff. We had a bit of a spat about that in her office yesterday and then I just pretended to agree with her. She'd also like me to see a psychiatrist but my HMO doesn't have one any more. Just as well. I might have gotten passed off to one of those rapid-taper nuts! 

 

Best of luck to you and I hope you still have your tablet!

 

Gard

[[St...]]

StephenD I  used to get this all the time - try taking a hot bath for it - it does help.  I also have used an ice pack as well - and sometimes I take a tylenol. I had this starting at the lower doses and I did and do what Baylissa Johns' said to do - I 'just accept it' and go on with my day.  It hurts very badly sometimes and I get it in my head too (brain zaps) and arms as well - I just chalk it up to benzo withdrawal. It has gotten much better now that I am off of the benzos completely.  I did not stop my taper and though I still get this I feel much better off of the benzo than on it.

 

I guess part of what I'm asking is if for some people the vibrations, electric feeling, whatever came and went. I don't fear this pain. I fear the pain I felt in 2014 when every nerve in my body was on fire. I am trying to be accepting. I just want to try and keep the symptoms to a sane minimum. That was the whole point of the MT.

StephenD, I  experienced the same thing when I was CT'd in 2014. I had to reinstate. Like you every nerve in my body was on fire including my brain. Every time I cut I lived in fear that I would get those intense horrible sensations again. If my skin started burning a little I went into panic mode certain those unbearable sxs  would resurface with a vengeance...they have not. I do experience burning sensations from time, but they are tolerable and nothing compared to what I experienced in 2014. I hope this message brings you some comfort.

 

So I wonder what it means that I'm having the vibrating sensation and muscle tension now. I last had this at around 15mg and down on my first taper. I'm at 1.85mg right now. Does that mean I'm doing better this time because I'm only now experiencing what I last experienced at 15mg?