Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[He...]]

Hi Good to hear from you Swicky,. Yes,I'm hangin, but I don't know how tough. Bad neck and back aches, but I'm hangin.

Heath

[[St...]]

Another quick question since I'm going into ultra cautious mode here. I've been largely reducing with a 1ml syringe (I know, I know). So basically I take 0.01 less per day. It's really finicky, but it's been working for me. In case I want to go to using the giant syringe, etc. to be more accurate can someone rundown for me the easiest way to do this? I've had a little benzo brain on getting that right, I'm afraid. I tried it for a few weeks and it went okay, but the medication felt "off", so I went back to just using the 1ml syringe.

[[bu...]]

Another quick question since I'm going into ultra cautious mode here. I've been largely reducing with a 1ml syringe (I know, I know). So basically I take 0.01 less per day. It's really finicky, but it's been working for me. In case I want to go to using the giant syringe, etc. to be more accurate can someone rundown for me the easiest way to do this? I've had a little benzo brain on getting that right, I'm afraid. I tried it for a few weeks and it went okay, but the medication felt "off", so I went back to just using the 1ml syringe.

 

The giant syringe will NOT be more accurate.  If what your doing is working, stay with it.

 

But just FYI, if you really need greater precision, increase the rate of dilution.

[[St...]]

Another quick question since I'm going into ultra cautious mode here. I've been largely reducing with a 1ml syringe (I know, I know). So basically I take 0.01 less per day. It's really finicky, but it's been working for me. In case I want to go to using the giant syringe, etc. to be more accurate can someone rundown for me the easiest way to do this? I've had a little benzo brain on getting that right, I'm afraid. I tried it for a few weeks and it went okay, but the medication felt "off", so I went back to just using the 1ml syringe.

 

The giant syringe will NOT be more accurate.  If what your doing is working, stay with it.

 

But just FYI, if you really need greater precision, increase the rate of dilution.

 

Remember, I'm not doing any dilution. I'm tapering by the same amount, 0.01 per day, but that's the 1 to 1 liquid itself.

[[ka...]]

Another quick question since I'm going into ultra cautious mode here. I've been largely reducing with a 1ml syringe (I know, I know). So basically I take 0.01 less per day. It's really finicky, but it's been working for me. In case I want to go to using the giant syringe, etc. to be more accurate can someone rundown for me the easiest way to do this? I've had a little benzo brain on getting that right, I'm afraid. I tried it for a few weeks and it went okay, but the medication felt "off", so I went back to just using the 1ml syringe.

 

The giant syringe will NOT be more accurate.  If what your doing is working, stay with it.

 

But just FYI, if you really need greater precision, increase the rate of dilution.

 

Remember, I'm not doing any dilution. I'm tapering by the same amount, 0.01 per day, but that's the 1 to 1 liquid itself.

Builder is right, if what you are doing is working, stay with it.  You have done a fabulous job with your taper and are on the home stretch!!  keep on keeping on. you know the saying, don't wake a sleeping baby. Hang in there, remain encouraged with your progress, push out the stinkin thinking thoughts of what ifs... You doing great!

[[bu...]]

Another quick question since I'm going into ultra cautious mode here. I've been largely reducing with a 1ml syringe (I know, I know). So basically I take 0.01 less per day. It's really finicky, but it's been working for me. In case I want to go to using the giant syringe, etc. to be more accurate can someone rundown for me the easiest way to do this? I've had a little benzo brain on getting that right, I'm afraid. I tried it for a few weeks and it went okay, but the medication felt "off", so I went back to just using the 1ml syringe.

 

The giant syringe will NOT be more accurate.  If what your doing is working, stay with it.

 

But just FYI, if you really need greater precision, increase the rate of dilution.

 

Remember, I'm not doing any dilution. I'm tapering by the same amount, 0.01 per day, but that's the 1 to 1 liquid itself.

 

Then just dilute the  liquid V 9:1with water.  That will increase your precision 10X.  .01ml will then be .001mg.

[[ga...]]

builder, Since you mentioned giant syringes....

 

I'm going to stop dry cutting and start diluting my 25mg of Q into 200ml of water and have decided I need to use the giant syringe (60ml) because I am making a very large pull. (Holding my L while I do this. Am getting some side effects from the Q and want to get it lower before I go back to the L titrating.)

 

I have 5 questions.

 

1. Is the giant syringe a bad idea? I really don't think I can do 7 pulls with my 10ml syringe pulls from my suspension and not mess it up. That's why I ordered the 60ml syringe. Haven't started yet. The syringe just arrived.

 

2. When I was dry cutting, I was down to total weight of 68mg from a tablet of 100-102mg. I was planning to dilute to 100ml but I am so clumsy and tend to be inaccurate so I thought the more dilute the better. So I switched to a 200ml dilution.My 200ml plan is to pull 64. This would be a very small uptick in my dose, not a downtick, right? I really don't want to do a downtick. My symptoms are awful.

 

3. Is an uptick a good idea when switching to liquid?

 

4. I plan to pull 60ml with the giant syringe and 4ml with my 10ml syringe because the marking on the 60ml syringe are weird. (Each 10ml is divided into quarters. Ugh.) This should work, right? Do the big pull with the big syringe and the small pull with the small syringe?

 

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

[[Pl...]]

Builder or anyone that can help .....

 

I am liquid titrating in 3 doses every single day in milk with K ......

 

If I ever needed to go to the emergency room and had to stay for a few days for whatever reason... How would I handle this? this has to be refrigerated and I am at an odd dose....

 

could I just prepare a few days of doses in water and not refrigerate? Just wondering in case this may happen....

 

Thank you to all with suggestions....

[[ed...]]

Just wanted to say hello and that I'm baaaack!  I did MT for a large portion of my taper and there came a point where I began to feel crappy every day no matter how small my cuts were.  I then switched over to Cut and Hold for about a milligram of Valium.  During the process, I had a set pattern of a couple of crappy days mixed in with some good ones.  However, eventually side effects caught up with me from cutting too heavily, too quickly. Even though there is the chance I'll feel "crappy" the whole way down, at least I can put on the brakes easier in case I cut too quickly with MT.  I reserve my right to go back to cut and hold before this is all over. 

 

**There's more than one way to skin a cat. I've tried quite a few of them.

 

Good luck to all,

Ed

[[ga...]]

Hi Ed. Hope whatever you do it works out for you.

 

Gard

[[li...]]

What's the difference between MT and cut and hold. Don't you also hold in an MT?

[[Pl...]]

Liza, I saw you on here and I'm thinking of trying to go back to the pills and try dry cutting micro taper...although I've not attempted to do dry cutting with kolonopin.... think the liquid may have really screwed me up....

 

I'm scared  to make changes but what if that's a problem? 

 

Have you liquid tapered the whole time when you attempted doing this?

 

Someone on here just made the realization that after 17 months of microtapering with liquid it made them worse.....

 

What do you think?

[[ed...]]

Hi Ed. Hope whatever you do it works out for you.

 

Gard

 

Thanks Gard!  Whatever it takes as the only way out is through.

 

Ed

[[li...]]

Is anyone using the oral dissolvable klonopin tablets in whole milk like I was taught to do?

[[bu...]]

builder, Since you mentioned giant syringes....

 

I'm going to stop dry cutting and start diluting my 25mg of Q into 200ml of water and have decided I need to use the giant syringe (60ml) because I am making a very large pull. (Holding my L while I do this. Am getting some side effects from the Q and want to get it lower before I go back to the L titrating.)

 

I have 5 questions.

 

1. Is the giant syringe a bad idea? I really don't think I can do 7 pulls with my 10ml syringe pulls from my suspension and not mess it up. That's why I ordered the 60ml syringe. Haven't started yet. The syringe just arrived.

 

Use the syringe that's the right size for the job.  If you want to measure less than 1ml, you obviously need to use a 1ml syringe.  And the smaller the device (and the graduations on its scale) the more precise the measurement will be.  When I worked in engineering, I used a micrometer (calibrated in thousandth of an inch).  When I started building houses, I did most of my measuring with a 25 ft tape measure.  +/-  1/4 inch is the accepted standard in building trades.

 

There are appropriate uses for larger containers and syringes, though.  When I was tapering, I used a 100ml cylinder and a 60 ml syringe to prepare my "batches", but I used a 10ml and 1ml syringe to meter out my doses.

 

2. When I was dry cutting, I was down to total weight of 68mg from a tablet of 100-102mg. I was planning to dilute to 100ml but I am so clumsy and tend to be inaccurate so I thought the more dilute the better. So I switched to a 200ml dilution.My 200ml plan is to pull 64. This would be a very small uptick in my dose, not a downtick, right? I really don't want to do a downtick. My symptoms are awful. 

 

Yes, the more dilute, the smaller the error factor.  For example, if your liquid is 1mg=1ml, then a .5ml error is a .5mg error, but if you dilute to 1mg=10ml, then a .5ml error is only .05 mg error...much smaller error for the actual dose.

 

3. Is an uptick a good idea when switching to liquid? 

 

In my opinion, that's uneccessary.  Its the same med.  Liquid or dry, 1mg=1mg.

 

4. I plan to pull 60ml with the giant syringe and 4ml with my 10ml syringe because the marking on the 60ml syringe are weird. (Each 10ml is divided into quarters. Ugh.) This should work, right? Do the big pull with the big syringe and the small pull with the small syringe? 

 

Yes, that's basically what I  said above...choose the tool that's suited for the job.  But you really should be able to get 10ml syringes graduated in 50 graduations (.2ml) or even 100 graduations (.1ml)  My 10ml syringes have 50 graduations (.2ml precision) (.

 

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Yes, again, its a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.  There are lab quality scales that would probably match (or even exceed) the precision of measuring liquid with oral syringes, but it ain't gonna happen with a $25 ebay/amazon gram scale. 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

[[bu...]]

What's the difference between MT and cut and hold. Don't you also hold in an MT?

 

Doing C&H, you might cut 1mg (say, from 10mg to 9mg) then hold at 9mg per day for 10 days.

 

With a microtaper, you would cut .1mg each day for 10 days.  Since your body has been able to make small adjustment during that 10 days, you don't have to hold, you just keep making daily cuts.

[[Pl...]]

Builder or anyone that can help .....

 

I am liquid titrating in 3 doses every single day in milk with K ......

 

If I ever needed to go to the emergency room and had to stay for a few days for whatever reason... How would I handle this? this has to be refrigerated and I am at an odd dose....

 

could I just prepare a few days of doses in water and not refrigerate? Just wondering in case this may happen....

 

Thank you to all with suggestions....

 

Please Anyone?

[[bu...]]

Builder or anyone that can help .....

 

I am liquid titrating in 3 doses every single day in milk with K ......

 

If I ever needed to go to the emergency room and had to stay for a few days for whatever reason... How would I handle this? this has to be refrigerated and I am at an odd dose....

 

could I just prepare a few days of doses in water and not refrigerate? Just wondering in case this may happen....

Thank you to all with suggestions....

 

Please Anyone?

  The best advice I can give you is to quit worrying about something that probably will never happen!

[[Pl...]]

Builder or anyone that can help .....

 

I am liquid titrating in 3 doses every single day in milk with K ......

 

If I ever needed to go to the emergency room and had to stay for a few days for whatever reason... How would I handle this? this has to be refrigerated and I am at an odd dose....

 

could I just prepare a few days of doses in water and not refrigerate? Just wondering in case this may happen....

Thank you to all with suggestions....

 

Please Anyone?

  The best advice I can give you is to quit worrying about something that probably will never happen!

 

I know builder...

 

Lately the past week my blood pressure has been dropping so low 74/54 and I haven't been able to get it up out of the 90s... It's never like that... I have perfect bp.... The weakness was so bad I couldn't speak lift my head or anything....severe tachycardia.... Breathlessness...squeezing feeling around my heart...

 

I wanted to call the ambulance....that got me thinking to what would I do if I had to and they kept me in there...

 

all these sxs drive me crazy.... I've been holding on going to the hospital for a long time for other stuff but with this I was close...

 

I guess there really isn't an answer on how to prepare for this....

 

Thank you so much anyway....

[[bu...]]

 

I know builder...

 

Lately the past week my blood pressure has been dropping so low 74/54 and I haven't been able to get it up out of the 90s... It's never like that... I have perfect bp.... The weakness was so bad I couldn't speak lift my head or anything....severe tachycardia.... Breathlessness...squeezing feeling around my heart...

 

I wanted to call the ambulance....that got me thinking to what would I do if I had to and they kept me in there...

 

all these sxs drive me crazy.... I've been holding on going to the hospital for a long time for other stuff but with this I was close...

 

I guess there really isn't an answer on how to prepare for this....

 

Thank you so much anyway....

  You really need to make an appointment with your doctor and see what is going on.  Much better idea than calling an ambulance or going to ER.

[[Pl...]]

 

I know builder...

 

Lately the past week my blood pressure has been dropping so low 74/54 and I haven't been able to get it up out of the 90s... It's never like that... I have perfect bp.... The weakness was so bad I couldn't speak lift my head or anything....severe tachycardia.... Breathlessness...squeezing feeling around my heart...

 

I wanted to call the ambulance....that got me thinking to what would I do if I had to and they kept me in there...

 

all these sxs drive me crazy.... I've been holding on going to the hospital for a long time for other stuff but with this I was close...

 

I guess there really isn't an answer on how to prepare for this....

 

Thank you so much anyway....

  You really need to make an appointment with your doctor and see what is going on.  Much better idea than calling an ambulance or going to ER.

 

I know I see him tomorrow.... Hypochondria is setting in like heart failure from the extreme stress of all this and other things..., its almost like I just don't want to know,  if you know what I mean...

 

Thank you so much...

[[ga...]]

builder, Since you mentioned giant syringes....

 

I'm going to stop dry cutting and start diluting my 25mg of Q into 200ml of water and have decided I need to use the giant syringe (60ml) because I am making a very large pull. (Holding my L while I do this. Am getting some side effects from the Q and want to get it lower before I go back to the L titrating.)

 

I have 5 questions.

 

1. Is the giant syringe a bad idea? I really don't think I can do 7 pulls with my 10ml syringe pulls from my suspension and not mess it up. That's why I ordered the 60ml syringe. Haven't started yet. The syringe just arrived.

 

Use the syringe that's the right size for the job.  If you want to measure less than 1ml, you obviously need to use a 1ml syringe.  And the smaller the device (and the graduations on its scale) the more precise the measurement will be.  When I worked in engineering, I used a micrometer (calibrated in thousandth of an inch).  When I started building houses, I did most of my measuring with a 25 ft tape measure.  +/-  1/4 inch is the accepted standard in building trades.

 

There are appropriate uses for larger containers and syringes, though.  When I was tapering, I used a 100ml cylinder and a 60 ml syringe to prepare my "batches", but I used a 10ml and 1ml syringe to meter out my doses. Good to hear a giant syringe is reliable.

 

2. When I was dry cutting, I was down to total weight of 68mg from a tablet of 100-102mg. I was planning to dilute to 100ml but I am so clumsy and tend to be inaccurate so I thought the more dilute the better. So I switched to a 200ml dilution.My 200ml plan is to pull 64. This would be a very small uptick in my dose, not a downtick, right? I really don't want to do a downtick. My symptoms are awful. 

 

Yes, the more dilute, the smaller the error factor.  For example, if your liquid is 1mg=1ml, then a .5ml error is a .5mg error, but if you dilute to 1mg=10ml, then a .5ml error is only .05 mg error...much smaller error for the actual dose. Yay. Thanks. That is my only hope. I am such a klutz on these meds. I once knocked over my liquid X and spilled half the bottle on the kitchen counter.

 

3. Is an uptick a good idea when switching to liquid? 

 

In my opinion, that's uneccessary.  Its the same med.  Liquid or dry, 1mg=1mg.  Yes, the same med. It's a mystery why some people have trouble when they liquify unless perhaps their liquid is too concentrated and they're making errors. Those darn bubbles!

 

4. I plan to pull 60ml with the giant syringe and 4ml with my 10ml syringe because the marking on the 60ml syringe are weird. (Each 10ml is divided into quarters. Ugh.) This should work, right? Do the big pull with the big syringe and the small pull with the small syringe? 

 

Yes, that's basically what I  said above...choose the tool that's suited for the job.  But you really should be able to get 10ml syringes graduated in 50 graduations (.2ml) or even 100 graduations (.1ml)  My 10ml syringes have 50 graduations (.2ml precision) (. My 10ml syringes are OK. It's just the 60ml that weird. So I'll just use the 60ml for the big pull.

 

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Yes, again, its a matter of choosing the right tool for the job.  There are lab quality scales that would probably match (or even exceed) the precision of measuring liquid with oral syringes, but it ain't gonna happen with a $25 ebay/amazon gram scale. 

Yes, I read somewhere you'd have to spend $2,500 to get a really reliable scale. Yikes. But dry cutters seem to be doing fine with their amazon scales. Something has thrown me way off, though, and my neuropathy is through the roof and everywhere. Could be lots of things, including not accurately cutting my Q tablets, getting exposed to an autoimmune trigger, my last itty bitty L cut, who knows. I'm trying to cross every t and dot every i because I have no idea what caused this. So exhausted and no appetite, dropping weight again.

 

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.  Thanks, Builder. Good to know I'm actually getting some ducks in a row with this new method. Just need to sit down with my daughter and practice it. Anne kindly gave me detailed directions on how she does her suspension. She has been so successful at suspending her benzo that I figure her method is a good one to use. 

 

Here's to a better tomorrow for everybody!

 

Gard

[Guest [ba...]]

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

The $25 Amazon scale does a pretty decent job for the money.  If used properly, they're good to 2-3 mg accuracy.  That's about as accurate as using a syringe.  Both methods of micro tapering are equally valid approaches.  Solid or liquid is more a matter of personal preference.  There's always going to be some error, but the variation due to metabolism far outweighs the variation due to weighing or measuring errors (if you're doing it properly).

[[Le...]]

5. And just to help paranoid me, a titration from a suspension is more accurate than dry cutting with an amazon-quality scale, right?

 

Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

The $25 Amazon scale does a pretty decent job for the money.  If used properly, they're good to 2-3 mg accuracy.  That's about as accurate as using a syringe.  Both methods of micro tapering are equally valid approaches.  Solid or liquid is more a matter of personal preference.  There's always going to be some error, but the variation due to metabolism far outweighs the variation due to weighing or measuring errors (if you're doing it properly).

Hi Badsocref, I had problems with the daily liquid titration method. I felt horrible the entire time. I'm holding at 14mg and considering dry cutting using the Gemini scale. I'm an ultrarapid metabolizer of Valium. Is it possible the way I metabolism the drug was the problem? I'm throwing ideas around, trying to figure out how to proceed. Thanks much, and hope you're doing well.

 

Left xxx

[Guest [ba...]]

If you think your metabolism is super fast, then you could split the dose of your valium into two or three doses.  Usually, V is long-lived enough that multiple doses aren't necessary, but it shouldn't hurt to try splitting the doses.  Maybe you're already doing that??

 

Some people say that they don't feel like they get the same amount of medicine when they do liquid titration.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I've seen a fair number of people say that.  Perhaps your experience was similar to theirs.

 

Are you taking liquid now or solid (or both)?