Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[my...]]

Good morning builder 

This is a housekeeping question 

Your signature is so concise...even though you tapered over a two year period.

Mine is ridiculously long..and will be longer by the time I'm finished, around four months from now.

 

I want to keep an an accurate record though, both for myself - to see how far I've come and how I did it -  and for others who might want to see what a conservative dry cut/hold taper looks like.  These past few months, though not entirely easy, have been a breeze compared to my early months when the cuts were just too big.  Plus, I believe I have healed a LOT as I've gone lower.

 

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mana 

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

Thanks, Builder.

[[ga...]]

1) Ora Plus can be 50% diluted with water.

 

2)  I find several references that say 1mg/ml.  So even at 2mg/day that's less than $.10 per day, ($3.00 per month) even if you don't dilute.

 

http://www.perrigo.com/business/pdfs/Sec%20Artem%206.2.pdf

 

 

But if my tablet is 101-102mg total weight=25mg Q, don't I need 102ml of Oraplus for each tablet? Or would that be 102ml of half OraPlus and half water? So I need 51ml of OraPlus/day.

 

Or am I missing something here?

 

 

 

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Builder,

 

I read another poster say that liquid valium is very weak and now I wonder if it has something to do with my withdrawals. I think that you mixed pills with liquid, correct? I'm assuming you didn't find the liquid to be weak, correct? Thanks in advance.

 

While there's no known reason for this, many people here seem to feel a need to up-dose slightly when they switch from solid to liquid.  Not a big up-dose - maybe 10% or so.  This is not my personal experience (I c/t'd).  It's just what I have seen a fair number of people post over the years.

[[He...]]

.5 mg mt cut completed in just under a month. Working on the next half mg. Liquid works great. MT has been good so far and the only complaint is the tiny syringe. However, the difficulty in pushing the plunger to exact amounts actually encourages me to taper a bit faster. Hope to get into single digits soon.

 

Not going to fire my b-doc yet. I may need him when I get to low levels. Compounding pharmacy products are very expensive though. Aloha to all, Charlotte

[[bu...]]

1) Ora Plus can be 50% diluted with water.

 

2)  I find several references that say 1mg/ml.  So even at 2mg/day that's less than $.10 per day, ($3.00 per month) even if you don't dilute.

 

http://www.perrigo.com/business/pdfs/Sec%20Artem%206.2.pdf

 

 

 

 

But if my tablet is 101-102mg total weight=25mg Q, don't I need 102ml of Oraplus for each tablet? Or would that be 102ml of half OraPlus and half water? So I need 51ml of OraPlus/day.

 

Or am I missing something here?

 

That doesn't matter.  The 1mg  per 1ml ratio in the published data refers the ratio of MED to liquid, NOT tablet weight to liquid.

 

If you read the material, it specifies a 1mg=1ml ratio using 2mg tablets.  Those tablets of course weigh more than 2mg, probably 100mg, much like your tablets.

[[Ul...]]

Hey Builder (or whoever wants to answer). I know I don't get on here a lot since I'm still at such a high dose and just trying to go through the motions, but I noticed that SG doesn't seem to have any comments where I just looked. Is he permanently away from this thread now?

 

Many thanks!

 

Jeff

[[my...]]

Builder Note:  Just condensed my signature...to months rather than cuts..beginning Jan/2016    (kept a hard copy for my own records)

[[Sw...]]

greeting!

I should complete schedule of 6mg klonopin. Is anyone able to do it to me? I would be grateful to the sky...!!!!!

 

I must say that I am in complete tolerance withdawal, take medication, who do not work, and I have symptoms as I was in the acute phase, after cold turkey I've never stabilized, nor will, the only way is to come down from the poison. Alcohol would not  taking.

I tought that combine tablets, and the smaller dose titration,but it could take up to a full titration, if someone makes a schedule.

I do not know what it is homogenized  fatty milk, I do not know whether that has here to buy. I could get from farmers, whether it should be 3.5% fat?  or buy in the store, typically milk 3,5 % fat, would it be with that to be done?

Since I'm very sick, would not want  that this is too stretched, within the recommended limits, 10%, 5 % may decrease, and in the lower doses...after about a year duration, perhaps even two months after. What would you recommend Me   I heard that you are the great masters Titration! I really need your help! Tell me, what would be best for me?  thank you! Builder whether you could help me???

 

[[Sh...]]

Wow that's a high dose of Xanax! How did it get so high may I ask? I really wish you all the best and hope you can get off this stuff and heal. They are horrible drugs. They ruin lives! Hopefully you can do a rapid taper of something and get off this stuff relatively quickly.

[[jr...]]

greeting!

I should complete schedule of 6mg klonopin. Is anyone able to do it to me? I would be grateful to the sky...!!!!!

 

I must say that I am in complete tolerance withdawal, take medication, who do not work, and I have symptoms as I was in the acute phase, after cold turkey I've never stabilized, nor will, the only way is to come down from the poison. Alcohol would not  taking.

I tought that combine tablets, and the smaller dose titration,but it could take up to a full titration, if someone makes a schedule.

I do not know what it is homogenized  fatty milk, I do not know whether that has here to buy. I could get from farmers, whether it should be 3.5% fat?  or buy in the store, typically milk 3,5 % fat, would it be with that to be done?

Since I'm very sick, would not want  that this is too stretched, within the recommended limits, 10%, 5 % may decrease, and in the lower doses...after about a year duration, perhaps even two months after. What would you recommend Me   I heard that you are the great masters Titration! I really need your help! Tell me, what would be best for me?  thank you! Builder whether you could help me???

 

 

I am not sure what you are taking as I do not understand your sig. But, IMHO I would not reduce my dose at all until I was stable. It may take some time but You have time so hang on . the sxs WILL go away!

[Guest [ba...]]

SBBerries and I have talked a little via PM.  She wants to do a liquid titration from 6 mgs of K, and wants to use whole milk as the carrier.  She's talked with her psych about this.  I suggested that she come here for advice on her taper. 

 

This initial question is about milk - whether she has to use homogenized milk or if she can use fresh (farmer's) milk.  And she would like some help developing a daily micro-taper.  She very much wants off of this poison.  Patience (like English) is not her strength, but she's a most delightful and loving person.  I'm hoping that she can get the support here that she needs.

 

fwiw - I suggested a two-year taper from 6 mg.  She'd like to do it in one.  You folks know a lot more about micro-tapering rates than I do, so please help her out.

[[ka...]]

SBBerries and I have talked a little via PM.  She wants to do a liquid titration from 6 mgs of K, and wants to use whole milk as the carrier.  She's talked with her psych about this.  I suggested that she come here for advice on her taper. 

 

This initial question is about milk - whether she has to use homogenized milk or if she can use fresh (farmer's) milk.  And she would like some help developing a daily micro-taper.  She very much wants off of this poison.  Patience (like English) is not her strength, but she's a most delightful and loving person.  I'm hoping that she can get the support here that she needs.

 

fwiw - I suggested a two-year taper from 6 mg.  She'd like to do it in one.  You folks know a lot more about micro-tapering rates than I do, so please help her out.

 

THAT WAS BEAUTIFULLY SAID AND I KNOW THERE ARE MANY HERE WHO CAN OFFER HER SUPPORT, GUIDANCE AND SUCH. I LOOK FORWARD TO THE HELP MANY WILL OFFER.

[[He...]]

In youropinion, Advice please

 

The last time I cut, I cut .01 for five consecutive days. I totaled a cut of  .05 all together. My sfx did not appear until the 8th day after the fifth .01 cut.

I don't know if it is .03 mg that was too much, .04 mg  or  05mg? How do I know?

 

Do I cut only  .02 and wait and see if I get sfx,  or even cut  .03 and wait? It seems like it will take forever, but how else can I see what kind of cut my body can handle without sfx other than just trial and error?

 

I wonder why I am getting side effects after such a small cut. Maybe I need to hold longer than three weeks before cutting. Maybe I'll just have to wait a while longer. I can't imagine that I have to make .01 cuts and hold after every .01 mg cut! That's ridiculously small.

 

Heathcliff

 

Heathcliff. Ive noticed you have asked this same question in many threads now. People are taking the time to reply to you but just be careful not to overload yourself. In the end its only you that knows how to taper and how youre feeling. If you keep asking questions in multiple threads, you're going to get many differing responses. No offense intended, but maybe stick to one or two threads where people can get to know you better and your situation.

 

Sorry.

[[ga...]]

SBBerries and I have talked a little via PM.  She wants to do a liquid titration from 6 mgs of K, and wants to use whole milk as the carrier.  She's talked with her psych about this.  I suggested that she come here for advice on her taper. 

 

This initial question is about milk - whether she has to use homogenized milk or if she can use fresh (farmer's) milk.  And she would like some help developing a daily micro-taper.  She very much wants off of this poison.  Patience (like English) is not her strength, but she's a most delightful and loving person.  I'm hoping that she can get the support here that she needs.

 

fwiw - I suggested a two-year taper from 6 mg.  She'd like to do it in one.  You folks know a lot more about micro-tapering rates than I do, so please help her out.

 

My 2 cents. Homogenized would be safer because the fat (cream) would be evenly distributed. The fat is the solvent. Un-homogenzied (fresh/farmer's) would have the fat on the top. I have even seen it with the cream already clumping into bits of butter from jiggling around in transport. You don't want your solvent sitting on the top or clumping into a solid. I have had some success with shaking the cream back into farmer's milk, but it never seems to be as evenly distributed as in homogenized milk. I'm no expert on milk titration, though. I only have experience with drinking and cooking with both kinds of milk. In the USA, almost all milk in the store is homogenized. I don't know about where she is. But it is very easy to see the difference when you open the carton/bottle whether the fat is on the top or mixed in.

 

BTW: Homogenized means the fat has been made into tiny particles that will stay evenly suspended in the milk instead of rising to the surface as it normally would. And 3.5% is the normal amount of fat in milk. Many people do use this to dissolve their benzodiazepine.

[[...]]

SBBerries and I have talked a little via PM.  She wants to do a liquid titration from 6 mgs of K, and wants to use whole milk as the carrier.  She's talked with her psych about this.  I suggested that she come here for advice on her taper. 

 

This initial question is about milk - whether she has to use homogenized milk or if she can use fresh (farmer's) milk.  And she would like some help developing a daily micro-taper.  She very much wants off of this poison.  Patience (like English) is not her strength, but she's a most delightful and loving person.  I'm hoping that she can get the support here that she needs.

 

fwiw - I suggested a two-year taper from 6 mg.  She'd like to do it in one.  You folks know a lot more about micro-tapering rates than I do, so please help her out.

 

I'd stick with homogenized for sure.  As Gard said, the even distribution of the fat in the milk is what keeps the K even.  I would not give that up.  Full fat milk is best.

 

I would not set a time.  It is important to keep the focus on always feeling well and keeping symptoms away.  At 6mg K she will be able to get rid of a lot fairly quickly.  I usually suggest starting at 8% a month so a .016mg daily cut would be a place to begin.  But first she should get on liquid and adjust a bit.  Liquify as little as possible...the details depend on pill size and number of doses.

[[sw...]]

In youropinion, Advice please

 

The last time I cut, I cut .01 for five consecutive days. I totaled a cut of  .05 all together. My sfx did not appear until the 8th day after the fifth .01 cut.

I don't know if it is .03 mg that was too much, .04 mg  or  05mg? How do I know?

 

Do I cut only  .02 and wait and see if I get sfx,  or even cut  .03 and wait? It seems like it will take forever, but how else can I see what kind of cut my body can handle without sfx other than just trial and error?

 

I wonder why I am getting side effects after such a small cut. Maybe I need to hold longer than three weeks before cutting. Maybe I'll just have to wait a while longer. I can't imagine that I have to make .01 cuts and hold after every .01 mg cut! That's ridiculously small.

 

Heathcliff

 

Heathcliff. Ive noticed you have asked this same question in many threads now. People are taking the time to reply to you but just be careful not to overload yourself. In the end its only you that knows how to taper and how youre feeling. If you keep asking questions in multiple threads, you're going to get many differing responses. No offense intended, but maybe stick to one or two threads where people can get to know you better and your situation.

 

Sorry.

 

Heathcliff, you've been on my mind lately. Hope you're hanging tough man. Stay strong!

[[la...]]

Hi all.

 

I needed some opinions on micro tapering after visiting my doctor yesterday.

Right now I am at  21.096 mg of Librium. I'm taking micro cuts every day.

 

I told my doctor I wanted to switch all liquid when I'm down to 20 mg as I take

3 am - 5 mg pill

8 am - 5 mg pill

1 pm - liquid dose

5 pm - pill

9 pm  pill

 

He says NOT to switch to all liquid. Because it's "too much" and more tedious so more room for mistakes.

 

Has anyone else had success taking it one pill at a time, switching one pill at a time to liquid. Meaning when done with that pill reduction I would cut that dose time away.

 

My reasoning for switching was so I could take my micro cuts off of each dose time every other day. Leaving it more equal and not maybe shocking my system as I get lower.

 

Thank you!!

 

[[bu...]]

Hi all.

 

 

 

He says NOT to switch to all liquid. Because it's "too much" and more tedious so more room for mistakes. 

 

I disagree.

 

 

 

My reasoning for switching was so I could take my micro cuts off of each dose time every other day. Leaving it more equal and not maybe shocking my system as I get lower.

I agree.

 

Thank you!!

[[la...]]

Hi all.

 

 

 

He says NOT to switch to all liquid. Because it's "too much" and more tedious so more room for mistakes. 

 

I disagree.

 

 

 

My reasoning for switching was so I could take my micro cuts off of each dose time every other day. Leaving it more equal and not maybe shocking my system as I get lower.

I agree.

 

Thank you!!

 

 

Thank you builder. I agree, too.

 

 

Also, is it hard to switch to all liquid??

Will that be hell?

[[bu...]]

 

Also, is it hard to switch to all liquid??

Will that be hell?

  It should make no difference.  Dry or liquid, its the same med, same potency.  1mg=1mg.

[[...]]

Lalasharp- are you making your own liquid or is it from a pharmacy?

How much are you tapering per day?

Are you feeling ok as you taper?

 

I am also on Librium.

[[la...]]

Lalasharp- are you making your own liquid or is it from a pharmacy?

How much are you tapering per day?

Are you feeling ok as you taper?

 

I am also on Librium.

 

 

Hi! It is from a pharmacy.

I actually do feel better. I still have bad days though.

 

I take .02 mg off a day.

So today I went from 21.096 mg to 21.094 mg.

 

How are you doing with your taper?

[[St...]]

I'm at 1.85mg of Valium. Outside of breakthrough anxiety and some muscle tension (no twitches or spasms) I'm pretty much free of taper symptoms. I'm part of a community of Facebook that has had to deal with a loss recently. It's shaken me a bit. My first taper was very symptomatic. At the end of my first taper I went from having muscle twitching, memory loss and breakthrough anxiety to all kinds of physical pain I didn't think was possible. I reinstated after 2 weeks.

 

I'm wondering, does this mean I'm heading for a crash at the end of this taper? Or did I go through a decent amount of healing during the first taper. I'm worried that the fact I'm not as symptomatic this time means I'm not healing as much as I could be. Thoughts?

[[bu...]]

I'm at 1.85mg of Valium. Outside of breakthrough anxiety and some muscle tension (no twitches or spasms) I'm pretty much free of taper symptoms. I'm part of a community of Facebook that has had to deal with a loss recently. It's shaken me a bit. My first taper was very symptomatic. At the end of my first taper I went from having muscle twitching, memory loss and breakthrough anxiety to all kinds of physical pain I didn't think was possible. I reinstated after 2 weeks.

 

I'm wondering, does this mean I'm heading for a crash at the end of this taper? Or did I go through a decent amount of healing during the first taper. I'm worried that the fact I'm not as symptomatic this time means I'm not healing as much as I could be. Thoughts?

  No, it most probably means you're doing a sensible taper, and you're going to be just fine. :