Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[li...]]

I have another question:  does anyone here use the dissolvable klonopin in milk?  I make my day's doses and then put them in the fridge for the day. I just looked at the package and it says to keep them at 68-77 degrees. I called the pharmacist and she said that was okay because it's dissolved before I put it in the fridge. Does that make sense to anyone who knows anything about chemistry (which I dont).

 

Am I the only one using these pills in milk?  I have yet to find someone else who is doing that except some gals in a FB group I was in last year who told me to do it this way. Thanks!!

[[jr...]]

I f your doses are divided out , then it maakes no difference that you keep them in the frig. the milk has to be refrigerated anyhow.

[[tl...]]

So, I'm daily micro-tapering at .535% per day off of 2mg of clonazepam daily for over a year. I'm down to 1.65mg as of last night (cut 17.5% by now, or 35 days of tapering so far), but I'm running into some problems namely insomnia.

 

This wasn't what my clonazepam was prescribed for, but it did certainly help me fall asleep. But now that my daily dose is reduced by a relatively significant amount, I'm finding it a lot harder to fall asleep when I want to. It used to be that when I wanted to go to bed and sleep I would fall asleep within a few minutes of lying down. Now it takes me a half-hour or longer. Sometimes I even have to stay up until I actually start feeling exhausted until I can finally fall asleep (and promptly wake up for work).

 

Sometimes I take OTC sleeping pills, but I try to avoid that because I got into quite a bit of trouble with them in the not too distant past (I was basically addicted to them and was taking 300mg or more of the sleeping aid to just get some rest). I know melatonin is an alternative, but it seems to rarely work for me. Is there anything you guys do to help with insomnia, whether it be an herbal remedy or some mindfulness technique? I'm tired (no pun intended) of not being able to sleep and having to drink large amounts of caffeine just to make it through the day (I know the caffeine probably isn't helping anything, but what can you do when you're averaging 3 hours of sleep a night and have to get up at 5am for work). And of course Z-drugs aren't an option (under the advice of my pdoc I'm going to start tiagabine in the next two weeks which actually promotes deep sleep so getting in some actual rest should be easier, it's just a question of falling asleep).

 

Tiagabine (which I said I'll be starting soon) is an interesting little drug though. It's an anti-seizure med that works similar to how benzos work. However, rather than enhance the action of GABA like benzos do, it actually increases the overall amount of GABA in the brain. For this reason it should be good not only for my anxiety issues, but also my insomnia. I just have to make it 2 weeks to see my pdoc to get the script.

[[jr...]]

I take mirtazipine for sleep and will taper off it when I am off the xanax

[[Pl...]]

I have another question:  does anyone here use the dissolvable klonopin in milk?  I make my day's doses and then put them in the fridge for the day. I just looked at the package and it says to keep them at 68-77 degrees. I called the pharmacist and she said that was okay because it's dissolved before I put it in the fridge. Does that make sense to anyone who knows anything about chemistry (which I dont).

 

Am I the only one using these pills in milk?  I have yet to find someone else who is doing that except some gals in a FB group I was in last year who told me to do it this way. Thanks!!

 

Liza.... I am doing the same thing as you but my pills are generic and not the wafers.... They are just regular pink little pills... Manufacturer activis... Make my doses and put in fridge...

[[li...]]

Thanks Please!  Love ya dear!

[[Pl...]]

Thanks Please!  Love ya dear!

 

 

Love you too Liza!  and just to be really clear its in milk too and I'm doing the daily liquid titration but holding for now....

[[li...]]

As I said before, I've been holding for what will be 6 months in another ten days.  I hope it has done some good, but I'm still really brain damaged/brain fogged/sedated/drunk vision, DR/DP, memory sucks, hard to hold on to consciousness some times.  I can do a little work on the computer and walk about 10 minutes and feed myself and wash the dishes and laundry most days, and make a few phone calls.  Beyond that, my brain is overwhelmed and screaming at me and spinning.

 

I know it may be a painful subject, but so many people point to Crash Bandicoot's story for a successful microtapering story.  I've never held this long and I know he did a long hold, small updose and was great all the way down.  I have the option of going up from 1.19 back to 1.25 mg where I had a few decent afternoons last fall before I started my 1% a month daily liquid microtaper (with no holds).  Just wondering if anyone knows what symptoms Crash was dealing with before he updosed and started.  He commented that the 6 month hold was the best thing he ever did, but if so, why did he have to updose to start his taper?  I can't find it in his posts. 

 

I can't figure why everything fell apart after crossing to klonopin but I've been pretty non-functional for about 15 months since the crossover.  Ativan worked fabulous for me, but that was before I started tapering so maybe it would have been just as bad, but klonopin is so incredibly hard on my brain. 

 

I have a choice to updose, or spread my doses a little more evenly and go down from 4 to 3/day before I start microtapering again.  No idea if sxs are withdrawal or side effects so it's the game of making yourself insane trying to figure out how not to do more damage than you've already done.

 

I hope everyone who reads this is having a decent day.

 

Liza

[[Be...]]

Can I do an effective micro-taper with a combination of 2 mg pills and 0.1 mg/ml liquid if I have a 0.5 ml syringe graduated into 100ths of a milliliter? I am currently at 6.6 mg but holding because I think the 10% cut and holds caught up with me.

[[bu...]]

Can I do an effective micro-taper with a combination of 2 mg pills and 0.1 mg/ml liquid if I have a 0.5 ml syringe graduated into 100ths of a milliliter? I am currently at 6.6 mg but holding because I think the 10% cut and holds caught up with me.

 

Of course!  Absolutely yes.

[[Be...]]

Thanks so much, Builder! Any recommendation if I am going to try to cut (eventually) 5% of the dose over 14 days? Space the cuts out two to three days? Really hope that I notice improvement like you at 3 mg. This wave from 8.3 to 6.6 has been the roughest I have experience in this entire V crossover taper.

[[bu...]]

Thanks so much, Builder! Any recommendation if I am going to try to cut (eventually) 5% of the dose over 14 days? Space the cuts out two to three days? Really hope that I notice improvement like you at 3 mg. This wave from 8.3 to 6.6 has been the roughest I have experience in this entire V crossover taper.

 

Why not do daily cuts?  .025mg/day is about 5% per 14 days.

[[Be...]]

Thanks. I can try - once I get past this rough spot.

[Guest [Jo...]]

I started a micro taper a few months ago when I was on 75mg, started at 0.05mg cuts a day, but didnt stay on that cut long enough, only a few days, then to 0.1mg, then 0.15mg and got terrible diarrhoea, on throne a dozen times a day.

 

I am planning on starting another micro taper, again at 0.05mg a day, but plan to stay on this cut longer.

 

At the moment, my diarrhoea is so bad, I could sit on the throne all day and something would come out.

My doctors want to get me down from 70mg to 30mg relatively quickly to start therapy for my Borderlilne, which I am now on, did a 5mg cut about just under 3weeks ago, suffering terrible diarrhoea still, which doc prescribed meds for.

 

I've heard loads of people say that daily cuts make symptoms fade, provided they are not too bad, and provided you are on a high enough dose to start with and symptoms are not too bad.

 

I have two questions.

1) Should I go back upto 75mg and start the taper from there?

2) As I progress through the taper, will I be able to eventually increase my cuts?

 

I asked the last question, because my doctors want to tapaer me quickly, and I don't want to become more poorly, as symptoms themselves can cause problems.

Also, I cannot afford to buy my own valium if I have to keep tapering at 0.05mg or less, as the dose gets lower (although I do expect to reduce the cut when I get much lower in the taper)

 

I would dearly love people who have had experience with daily cutting from large amounts of benzo to help please, it would be much apppreciated, thanks

Anybody? please

[[Be...]]

I read your post. I hope someone can address it and that you find comfort soon. I can say that, if you can, you should lobby hard to keep the Valium level sufficient to taper from, and not have them drop you off a cliff. Go in with all the research you can.

[[St...]]

I'm at 1.90mg of Valium right now. Any reason I should slow down? I'm currently cutting either 0.01mg per day or 0.02mg per day. Outside of some cog fog I feel okay. Just making sure I don't need to go down by 0.005 or something like that based on percentages.

[Guest [Jo...]]

I read your post. I hope someone can address it and that you find comfort soon. I can say that, if you can, you should lobby hard to keep the Valium level sufficient to taper from, and not have them drop you off a cliff. Go in with all the research you can.

Hi Benzo3 thanks for reading my post, and thanks for your suggestion, but the nhs is so strapped for cash that there isn't the time in each consultation to read research.

I'm worried, as I am alone with no one to take care of me, if I become bedridden for example, say, due to exhaustion.

I know 'what-if's' are bad, my fear is driving them. I'm trying hard not to what-if, but i also recognise i have a fear of being stranded, marooned, stuck, trapped etc

[[Be...]]

Right there with you, Journey2. Nowhere to go if things go bad ..... all of that makes going back on benzos impossible to take off the table for me - even when I know it will just prolong the inevitable. Sometimes I think, do this during retirement - but then I think - I want to enjoy my retirement. And then I think, well, you have young kids now, enjoy your time (which I can't fully). It's all very confusing.

[[so...]]

Hi all.  I was referred to come here by SG to inquire about dry daily micro taper from klonopin.  I am currently 1 mg/night. I started 1.5 mg/night, for 7 years.

 

My most important question right now is: what kind of scale do I get? I need one that will weight tiny teeny amounts.  what do you all use?  brand, model, and where to purchase??

 

Many thanks! 

[[ga...]]

FYI: Went back to holding my L and not sure but probably still suffering the consequences of my attempted cut. Really bad.

 

Chemistry Question

 

Want to micro-taper my Q in smaller amounts than dry cutting allows. Looking for some help with making a homemade suspending solution because the water thing is just too hard for me.

 

I found this, but forgot to save the link, but it was in what looked like a reputable article.

Abstract

Objective To clarify the effects of the suspension vehicle on the properties of an extemporaneously compounded nifedipine oral suspension (1 mg/ml) prepared from ground-up commercial nifedipine tablets.

 

Methods Oral suspensions of nifedipine were compounded with six different vehicles: commercial vehicles Suspension Diluent A, Ora-Plus/Ora-Sweet, Ora-Plus/Ora-Sweet SF and SyrSpend SF Cherry, and extemporaneously prepared Methylcellulose 1%/Syrup NF and Hypromellose 1%. The suspensions were stored at room temperature and analysed at 1, 2 and 4 weeks. The effect of mixing on the content uniformity was studied by evaluating two mixing protocols: inverting the bottle manually 10–15 times or inverting it three times. The concentration of nifedipine, the uniformity of mass and the sedimentation volume were determined.

 

Results The content uniformity of all the suspensions complied with the Pharmacopoeia test at all time points when they were mixed by inverting the bottle 10–15 times. Bottles inverted three times did not comply with the test at 1 week when Methylcellulose 1%/Syrup NF or Hypromellose 1% were used. The uniformity of mass was within acceptable limits in all suspensions. The sedimentation volume of the unmixed Methylcellulose 1%/Syrup NF and Hypromellose 1% was higher than that of the commercial vehicles.

 

Conclusions In order to comply with the Pharmacopeia test for content uniformity, suspensions compounded with Methylcellulose 1%/Syrup NF or Hypromellose 1% require mixing by inverting the bottle 10–15 times. In contrast, the commercial suspension vehicles passed the test if the bottle was inverted only three times.

 

OraPlus is prohibitively expensive. My local pharmacy uses it and doesn't sell any kind of suspending solution. They also told me they could not make a suspension of Q for me because it is not stable and that if I put it in liquid, I must consume it immediately. That's my plan. I just need to find something to suspend it in because I am too slow to do a quick, accurate draw from water.

It sounds from the above abstract, that the methylcellulose suspension was more than adequate for my purposes. Am I correct?

 

I found this in the groceries section of amazon:

Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose - Methocel® F50 (Molecular Gastronomy) ⊘ Non-GMO ☮ Vegan ✡ OU Kosher Certified - 400g/14oz $24.99 only 15 left, order soon

 

Is this the stuff they are talking about? If so, how would I make a 1% suspending solution? The manufacturer says the product is meant to be measured in grams, not volumetrically.

 

I have also read accounts of people using other things to suspend insoluble meds, even diluted peach baby food or citrucel. Is this odd/unsafe?

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

 

[[bu...]]

Well, I guess "prohibitively expensive" is different for everyone, but at ~$18/pint, that figures out to about $.035/ml.  And it is widely used by pharmacies for suspending a variety  of meds.

 

Actually, the major requirement for a suspension agent is viscosity...it just has to be "thick" enough to hold the particles in suspension.  And yes, soft foods such as applesauce, pudding, and ice cream can be used to "suspend" dry meds, although there will be some difficulty accurately measuring out specific dose amounts.

 

 

[[ga...]]

Well, I guess "prohibitively expensive" is different for everyone, but at ~$18/pint, that figures out to about $.035/ml.  And it is widely used by pharmacies for suspending a variety  of meds.

 

Actually, the major requirement for a suspension agent is viscosity...it just has to be "thick" enough to hold the particles in suspension.  And yes, soft foods such as applesauce, pudding, and ice cream can be used to "suspend" dry meds, although there will be some difficulty accurately measuring out specific dose amounts.

 

https://www.amazon.com/PADDOCK-LABORATORIES-Ora-Plus-Suspending-Vehicle/dp/B000GGHSQM

 

builder, yes, that's what I saw, about $24 with shipping. That's a big decision to me.

 

I tried using 100ml of water per tablet but gave up because I kept spilling when I tried to work quickly. My daughter will be back in school tomorrow (student teaching plus still working on the weekends, ouch), so I don't want to lay this on her.

 

So, with Ora-Plus, how much would I need and how much would that be per dose? I need to figure out how much I would need per month to see if I can afford it, but it looks like a lot. Would it be safe to dilute with only 50ml? I've always used 100ml as my default, but maybe I can get away with less?

 

Yes, expense is definitely relative. $24 used to be nothing to me when I was married to a software engineer. Then I lost everything when I became ill and was divorced. Now I cannot work and can barely pay the rent. I have two kids in college that I try to help whenever I can. So I count pennies.

 

I think the methyl-whatever is cheaper, but I'm not sure. Bad cog fog and neuropathy makes me unsure of my calculations. I do them and then question them. Benzo brain is back full force.

 

It would help to know how much Ora-Plus I would actually need and how much each dose would then cost. I would rather use it if I can afford it. I only dose the Q once a day but have to use the pitch out method because Q is not stable in liquid for even 24 hours.

 

Thanks!

[[bu...]]

1) Ora Plus can be 50% diluted with water.

 

2)  I find several references that say 1mg/ml.  So even at 2mg/day that's less than $.10 per day, ($3.00 per month) even if you don't dilute.

 

http://www.perrigo.com/business/pdfs/Sec%20Artem%206.2.pdf

[[Be...]]

Builder,

 

I read another poster say that liquid valium is very weak and now I wonder if it has something to do with my withdrawals. I think that you mixed pills with liquid, correct? I'm assuming you didn't find the liquid to be weak, correct? Thanks in advance.

[[bu...]]

Builder,

 

I read another poster say that liquid valium is very weak and now I wonder if it has something to do with my withdrawals. I think that you mixed pills with liquid, correct? I'm assuming you didn't find the liquid to be weak, correct? Thanks in advance.

 

1mg valium =1mg valium.  It doesn't matter what form its in. 

 

I took most of my  dose from tablets, and the "cut" portion by liquid.  I use Rx liquid.

 

Rx liquid is simply dry valium dissolved in a solvent (alcohol or PG) , then diluted with water, pretty much the same as  "home brew liquid V.  If you dissolve 1mg of V in a solution, then there is 1mg of V in there.  It doesn't get weaker, it doesn't get stronger, it just becomes a liquid!