Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[bu...]]

builder, how many times a day did you dose your valium? from 9mg down.....

  I dosed twice a day, from the very start my Valium usage, until I got down to 3mg, then I switched to all liquid, and  once a day.

 

And I always took uneven doses.  At 15 mg I too 5 AM and 10mg PM.  When I was taking 9mg (for a long time  ) I took 2mg AM and 7mg PM.

[[Ma...]]

Hi!!

Hi Jeff! Sending so much love 

 

Hi Gard, Miss you and thinking of you 

 

Hi SG!

 

Builder,

Different things work for different people. Cut and hold works better for me and some others. I know That MT works better for you and the others on here. That's great. To me what what matters is doing what works for you to get off the drug.

 

XO Maya

[[bu...]]

If C&H works for you, that's what I would do if I were you.

[[Ma...]]

If C&H works for you, that's what I would do if I were you.

Thanks. I am glad MT worked so well for you and others. Who knows I may try it much later on in my taper. 

[[ba...]]

Maya, congrats on your great taper progress (not to say it's fun, of course ). I noticed on your sig you had 'gi sxs' around 12 mg valium; I'm in that range now, and having some 'esophagus/chest??' discomfort stuff, bleah. Could you mention in more detail the sxs you had? I'd really appreciate any info (I've read about some GI sxs on other threads), but totally understand if you'd rather not respond. Cheers , in any case.

 

p.s. like the 'benzo day' top!

[Guest [ba...]]

Why do some people think microtaper is not better.  1)  There is a high probability that they made errors in calculating or measuring their doses.  2)  They actually felt the delayed effects of prior cuts, dose changes, med changes, etc.  3)  People tend to assume that if Y follow X, the Y must have been caused by X...very bad logic.  4)  Its psychosomatic.

 

One other reason why MT may feel a little better than c/h is that you actually use a little more benzo doing a daily micro taper than you do when doing a 14-day-based cut and hold.  The difference depends on the rate of the taper.  At a 10% biweekly rate, the difference is 5%.  The difference is smaller if you're tapering slower (2.4% @ 5% biweekly).

[[pe...]]

I'm on 1.2mg of ativan now and 2,5 mg of valium

 

I would like to LT ...scared but the symptoms i have had have been horrendous and pills are cleaarly not evenly distributed so if crossing to liquid should i go the whole liquid at once ...and can i use just water ....?

 

 

[[jr...]]

I'm on 1.2mg of ativan now and 2,5 mg of valium

 

I would like to LT ...scared but the symptoms i have had have been horrendous and pills are cleaarly not evenly distributed so if crossing to liquid should i go the whole liquid at once ...and can i use just water ....?

 

I would do a crossover to all valium. once that is done I would taper the V half liquid and half dry

[[St...]]

why do people taper half liquid and half dry with valium?  why not all dry or all liquid?

 

[[bu...]]

why do people taper half liquid and half dry with valium?  why not all dry or all liquid?

  You can't really do a microtaper with all tablets because you can't measure out tiny doses.  That's the main reason people use liquid.  You could do all liquid, but tablets are much cheaper than liquid, and many insurance companies will not cover liquid.

 

I did tablets + liquid from 9mg down to 3 mg.  I switched to all liquid at 3 mg because I knew I had more than enough liquid to finish my taper.

[[St...]]

my friend mixes her valium tablets with almond milk for her daily taper, does that work?  I am almost crossed over to 9 mg of v, and wondering how to taper it slowly to stay functional if possible...I crossed from Ativan and we were LT from that so I am familiar with LT, would the almond milk work,  I am lactose intolerant to regular milk....thanks!( I tried PG and vodka and really didn't like them at all for the LT of avian...would really prefer the milk if it would work.....

 

[[bu...]]

my friend mixes her valium tablets with almond milk for her daily taper, does that work?  I am almost crossed over to 9 mg of v, and wondering how to taper it slowly to stay functional if possible...I crossed from Ativan and we were LT from that so I am familiar with LT, would the almond milk work,  I am lactose intolerant to regular milk....thanks!( I tried PG and vodka and really didn't like them at all for the LT of avian...would really prefer the milk if it would work.....

  Valium is lipid (fat) soluble, so any fatty liquid will work.  Almond milk is high in fat.  Milk was a favored liquid for tapering before folks began to understand that alcohol and propylene glycol are also excellent solvents.

[[Ju...]]

One more week and I should be at 2mg valium daily. My daily vodka and water titrations are working well. But once I'm at 2mg I really need to slow it down. My doctor makes me reduce half a mg every month but I have quite a bit of valium stockpiled especially so I can do this last 2mg slowly.

 

How slowly should I go? I currently reduce 50ml (half a mg of valium, half a mil of vodka, 50ml water) by 2ml daily and my symptoms are manageable enough most days. Mostly insomnia, anxiety and the occasional headache or nausea.

 

The anxiety is the worst one. Anxiety mixed with depression. It usually goes away when I take my dose, plus I've been taking occasional magnesium citrate or L-theanine on really bad days, and I know some people have mixed opinons on those supplements but I use them sparingly.

 

My main questions are:

What would be a good rate of reduction once I get to 2mg, and is this anxiety and depression a benzo thing because some days it's so intense I can't imagine being able to cope long term with it. I keep telling myself it's just withdrawl but I fear I'm wrong. It's the most intense fear I've ever felt. Like some days life is just a big black hole sucking me in.

[[...]]

One more week and I should be at 2mg valium daily. My daily vodka and water titrations are working well. But once I'm at 2mg I really need to slow it down. My doctor makes me reduce half a mg every month but I have quite a bit of valium stockpiled especially so I can do this last 2mg slowly.

 

How slowly should I go? I currently reduce 50ml (half a mg of valium, half a mil of vodka, 50ml water) by 2ml daily and my symptoms are manageable enough most days. Mostly insomnia, anxiety and the occasional headache or nausea.

 

The anxiety is the worst one. Anxiety mixed with depression. It usually goes away when I take my dose, plus I've been taking occasional magnesium citrate or L-theanine on really bad days, and I know some people have mixed opinons on those supplements but I use them sparingly.

 

My main questions are:

What would be a good rate of reduction once I get to 2mg, and is this anxiety and depression a benzo thing because some days it's so intense I can't imagine being able to cope long term with it. I keep telling myself it's just withdrawl but I fear I'm wrong. It's the most intense fear I've ever felt. Like some days life is just a big black hole sucking me in.

 

It certainly is a symptom of withdrawal.  I would not push through it.  You may need to hold.  The taper rate you need is whatever rate does not cause a symptom increase.

[[St...]]

On My last trip back home I got another refill. I now have enough liquid Valium to see me through to the end, even if I'm only reducing 0.01 per day.

[[St...]]

Thanks for the info Builder....much appreciated....now just need to finish the crossover....

 

[[my...]]

Hi SG,

How are you doing?  Just thought I would stop by...late where you live so maybe you will see this tomorrow or whenever you check the MT thread again.  Yesterday, per signature, I dropped to .26 mg.  I have begun to get, really get, the notion of keeping symptoms to a minimum and having faith that zero will come when it comes.  I decided that alternating .007 with .006 was too much for me...and am planning to stick with .006g every 10 days until I need to make another adjustment.  The wisdom of not rushing but not hesitating either was made very real for me as I plotted my next 4 cuts on the calendar taking me to the first week in September.  If things go as planned, I should arrive at .19mg then...and that number - into the 'teens - just brought it home.  It helped me believe that I will be successful in reaching the end of this taper (and feeling well in the process) even if that end is five or six months off.

 

With thanks for your support, friendship and all the kind words from you and many others..... (I'm not going anywhere - just felt like it bears repeating every now and then...

 

One foot in front of the other...& plenty of rest in between. 

 

Mana  :smitten:

[[...]]

Hi SG,

How are you doing?  Just thought I would stop by...late where you live so maybe you will see this tomorrow or whenever you check the MT thread again.  Yesterday, per signature, I dropped to .26 mg.  I have begun to get, really get, the notion of keeping symptoms to a minimum and having faith that zero will come when it comes.  I decided that alternating .007 with .006 was too much for me...and am planning to stick with .006g every 10 days until I need to make another adjustment.  The wisdom of not rushing but not hesitating either was made very real for me as I plotted my next 4 cuts on the calendar taking me to the first week in September.  If things go as planned, I should arrive at .19mg then...and that number - into the 'teens - just brought it home.  It helped me believe that I will be successful in reaching the end of this taper (and feeling well in the process) even if that end is five or six months off.

 

With thanks for your support, friendship and all the kind words from you and many others..... (I'm not going anywhere - just felt like it bears repeating every now and then...

 

One foot in front of the other...& plenty of rest in between. 

 

Mana  :smitten:

 

It sounds like you have developed the patience and mindset to do this the way it needs to be done.

[[ga...]]

Hi!!

 

Hi Jeff, Maya, SG, builder, Thread Buddies.

 

Gard

[[Ki...]]

At the end of this week I will be at 10 mg V and ready to swap to LMT. Right now Im mixing 2 5 mg pills and bits of a 2 so once Im down to 10 I need to switch because my scale drives me batty. Im cutting .001 g every other day- super slow I know but I metabolize it so fast going any faster made me a basket case. So can anyone give me a starter plan here? I have a bottle of bourbon, regular milk, almond milk, and the supplies listed- all I need now is a plan that equals my .001 reduction every other day. Anyone up for helping me?

[[ga...]]

At the end of this week I will be at 10 mg V and ready to swap to LMT. Right now Im mixing 2 5 mg pills and bits of a 2 so once Im down to 10 I need to switch because my scale drives me batty. Im cutting .001 g every other day- super slow I know but I metabolize it so fast going any faster made me a basket case. So can anyone give me a starter plan here? I have a bottle of bourbon, regular milk, almond milk, and the supplies listed- all I need now is a plan that equals my .001 reduction every other day. Anyone up for helping me?

 

Starter plan for Kitty: Send the bottle of bourbon to Gard. 

[[Va...]]

At the end of this week I will be at 10 mg V and ready to swap to LMT. Right now Im mixing 2 5 mg pills and bits of a 2 so once Im down to 10 I need to switch because my scale drives me batty. Im cutting .001 g every other day- super slow I know but I metabolize it so fast going any faster made me a basket case. So can anyone give me a starter plan here? I have a bottle of bourbon, regular milk, almond milk, and the supplies listed- all I need now is a plan that equals my .001 reduction every other day. Anyone up for helping me?

Hi Kitty. Do you mean .01? Just making sure. --V

[[Ki...]]

Gard you can have it. Bourbon and valium do not play well together with me. Xanax and bourbon were kinda fun in little doses.  My daily weight of pill matter is around .325 g so my every other daycut is .001 g. Thats where I get my 2 year estimate from! If I try to go faster than that things get ugly and Im sure its the fast metabolism adding ugly to the mix.

[[Ki...]]

This isnt a microtaper this is a slug taper. Im pretty sure thats correct although as poor SG knows I am beyond mathematically challenged. Yeah, I go down from say Tuesday total pill weight .318 to .317 g in pill weight on Thursday, on and on

[[li...]]

Hey SG,

 

I hope you're doing okay.

 

I posted in here a couple months ago about my post hold taper and now I'm hoping you have some anecdotal stories of people struggling in a hold.  I'm at 5 months and it's been up and down, but not impossible.  Last 10 days I feel like I'm back to square one and have lost all of my gains from the hold.  10 days ago I was on week 3 of being able to walk a little more and do computer work most of the day without being overwhelmed.  Now all of my mental stuff is way worse and the physical is bad too.  I am fairly non-functional and am couch bound again.

 

When you heard my story before, you suggested before that I hold for six months or more.  I would hold until the cows come home if this didn't feel like tolerance.  I'm in the Long Hold Support Group and so far I haven't read any stories where anyone got WAY worse before they stabilized--windows and waves maybe, but not a tsunami.  Is this unusual?

 

I'm trying to hold out on updosing because I don't know that it will pull me out of it, but if you know more about that, I'd love to hear it.  I've only been able to get from 1.25 mg K that i was updosed to last September to 1.19 where I am now.  I only held for 24 days after my updose and my history for a year before that was very rocky and up and down so I'm hearing from people that I have never fully stabilized (actually when I went up to 1.25 mg K last September I had some afternoons that were really functional for about a week before I started microtapering.  I thought I was stable and I thought that meant I should start my taper right away).

 

Anyway--just trying to decide whether I just need to hold more or updose.  I'm feeling hopeless about either prospect right now and I don't go in any other groups besides here and the Long Hold group so I don't know a ton about long holds or know many other people's experiences with getting worse before better.  Hope that's happened for someone.  Thanks for your input. It means a lot.