Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Fi...]]

Good Morning Everyone-

 

Anne, SG, or anyone, I'd like some help with math again please - I'm trying to figure out how much I've tapered since July 1, and how to slow down my taper rate as I think I'm going too fast!  I'm tapering from both Clonazepam tablet and compounded liquid - (0.1 mg/ml), and I'm confusing myself with decimal points and combining mg and ml together. 

 

July 1 - I took a 0.25mg tablet plus 2.05ml of liquid = .455???

July 23 I took a 0.25mg tablet plus 1.5ml of liquid = .400???

 

Based on the above calculations I tapered .55ml during this time period which is a 12% cut???

 

 

I am cutting 0.025ml per day and if I continue at this rate until the end of July, my July 31 dosage would be:

July 31 - .025mg tablet plus 1.3ml = .380?? - a 16.4% cut from July 1??

 

I'm quite symptomatic and I think I need to slow down.  I know SG you say to have a symptom based taper, however, I don't even know what I should slow it down to!!

 

If in fact I have cut 12% since the beginning of the month to now, and I only want to cut 5% every 2 weeks (which still may be too much), than I've cut way too much already for the month.  I think I will just hold at my current rate of 0.4 (I think that's what it is) for the next couple of weeks while I'm on vacation, and then try to sort out a new schedule.

 

So, could someone please check my math above, and I am very open to suggestions on how to proceed with my taper!

 

Thank you, Finnie

[[...]]

Good Morning Everyone-

 

Anne, SG, or anyone, I'd like some help with math again please - I'm trying to figure out how much I've tapered since July 1, and how to slow down my taper rate as I think I'm going too fast!  I'm tapering from both Clonazepam tablet and compounded liquid - (0.1 mg/ml), and I'm confusing myself with decimal points and combining mg and ml together. 

 

July 1 - I took a 0.25mg tablet plus 2.05ml of liquid = .455???

July 23 I took a 0.25mg tablet plus 1.5ml of liquid = .400???

 

Based on the above calculations I tapered .55ml during this time period which is a 12% cut???

 

 

I am cutting 0.025ml per day and if I continue at this rate until the end of July, my July 31 dosage would be:

July 31 - .025mg tablet plus 1.3ml = .380?? - a 16.4% cut from July 1??

 

I'm quite symptomatic and I think I need to slow down.  I know SG you say to have a symptom based taper, however, I don't even know what I should slow it down to!!

 

If in fact I have cut 12% since the beginning of the month to now, and I only want to cut 5% every 2 weeks (which still may be too much), than I've cut way too much already for the month.  I think I will just hold at my current rate of 0.4 (I think that's what it is) for the next couple of weeks while I'm on vacation, and then try to sort out a new schedule.

 

So, could someone please check my math above, and I am very open to suggestions on how to proceed with my taper!

 

Thank you, Finnie

 

It sounds like symptoms have increased.  Don't allow that to happen.  I'd stop tapering.  If you push it IMO you'll do the longer term kind of damage and I'm pretty sure you don't want that.  Always work to get rid of symptoms, not get to zero.  The deeper you get into symptoms the trickier it is to get rid of them.

 

Your math looks good to me: July 1 - .455mg; July 23 - .4mg.  .055mg is a 12.1% cut over 22 days.  That's 16.5% a month.

[[Fi...]]

Good Morning Everyone-

 

Anne, SG, or anyone, I'd like some help with math again please - I'm trying to figure out how much I've tapered since July 1, and how to slow down my taper rate as I think I'm going too fast!  I'm tapering from both Clonazepam tablet and compounded liquid - (0.1 mg/ml), and I'm confusing myself with decimal points and combining mg and ml together. 

 

July 1 - I took a 0.25mg tablet plus 2.05ml of liquid = .455???

July 23 I took a 0.25mg tablet plus 1.5ml of liquid = .400???

 

Based on the above calculations I tapered .55ml during this time period which is a 12% cut???

 

 

I am cutting 0.025ml per day and if I continue at this rate until the end of July, my July 31 dosage would be:

July 31 - .025mg tablet plus 1.3ml = .380?? - a 16.4% cut from July 1??

 

I'm quite symptomatic and I think I need to slow down.  I know SG you say to have a symptom based taper, however, I don't even know what I should slow it down to!!

 

If in fact I have cut 12% since the beginning of the month to now, and I only want to cut 5% every 2 weeks (which still may be too much), than I've cut way too much already for the month.  I think I will just hold at my current rate of 0.4 (I think that's what it is) for the next couple of weeks while I'm on vacation, and then try to sort out a new schedule.

 

So, could someone please check my math above, and I am very open to suggestions on how to proceed with my taper!

 

Thank you, Finnie

 

It sounds like symptoms have increased.  Don't allow that to happen.  I'd stop tapering.  If you push it IMO you'll do the longer term kind of damage and I'm pretty sure you don't want that.  Always work to get rid of symptoms, not get to zero.  The deeper you get into symptoms the trickier it is to get rid of them.

 

Your math looks good to me: July 1 - .455mg; July 23 - .4mg.  .055mg is a 12.1% cut over 22 days.  That's 16.5% a month.

 

Thanks SG, based on percentages, this is the fastest I've ever tapered - I will be holding.  One of the key's for me in moving forward is to be more deliberate and plan out my taper.  My symptoms kind of just snuck up on me, I attributed a lot of the amped up symptoms to not sleeping well; my sleep has never been good, but it definitely changed for the worse over the last couple of weeks - now I can see the cause and effect.  Thanks so much.  Finnie

[[ga...]]

SG, I'm done tapering my Q to as low as I think I can go and want to go back to my L taper. I might want to try a small cut each week, like I did with my Q. Actually, since this is my first cut since my L hold, and I'm not very experienced with L (most of my taper was done off of X), I will make a small cut and wait 2 weeks. I want to try 1/2% as my first experimental cut.

 

Each of my capsules is 5mg. I take L 3 times a day.

 

7AM 1 whole 5mg capsule and one dissolved 5mg capsule (100ml).

2PM same

11PM same

 

So, if I pull 1ml from each bottle of solution, that would be pulling 1/2% of my entire dose of L, right?

 

That you, math guru.

 

Gard

 

[[...]]

SG, I'm done tapering my Q to as low as I think I can go and want to go back to my L taper. I might want to try a small cut each week, like I did with my Q. Actually, since this is my first cut since my L hold, and I'm not very experienced with L (most of my taper was done off of X), I will make a small cut and wait 2 weeks. I want to try 1/2% as my first experimental cut.

 

Each of my capsules is 5mg. I take L 3 times a day.

 

7AM 1 whole 5mg capsule and one dissolved 5mg capsule (100ml).

2PM same

11PM same

 

So, if I pull 1ml from each bottle of solution, that would be pulling 1/2% of my entire dose of L, right?

 

That you, math guru.

 

Gard

 

Your dose is 30mg a day.  .5% of that is .15mg.  Your liquid is .05mg/ml, so to get .15mg you'd cut 3ml, which is 1ml from each of your three doses.

[[ga...]]

SG, I'm done tapering my Q to as low as I think I can go and want to go back to my L taper. I might want to try a small cut each week, like I did with my Q. Actually, since this is my first cut since my L hold, and I'm not very experienced with L (most of my taper was done off of X), I will make a small cut and wait 2 weeks. I want to try 1/2% as my first experimental cut.

 

Each of my capsules is 5mg. I take L 3 times a day.

 

7AM 1 whole 5mg capsule and one dissolved 5mg capsule (100ml).

2PM same

11PM same

 

So, if I pull 1ml from each bottle of solution, that would be pulling 1/2% of my entire dose of L, right?

 

That you, math guru.

 

Gard

 

Your dose is 30mg a day.  .5% of that is .15mg.  Your liquid is .05mg/ml, so to get .15mg you'd cut 3ml, which is 1ml from each of your three doses.

 

I'm pretty sure you just said, yes.

[[Pe...]]

Hi ! Don't know if I'm in the right place with my question ? Just bought a scale . Recommend on KK group of forum . Should arrive on Friday . What's the best way to use it. Not a math genius. Think micro tapering is the way I should go. Taking 1mg, tapered to .75 two weeks ago. It was a little too much. Trying to do this taper the best with fewer side effects. Could use some help.

Thank you!

[Guest [Jo...]]

I am on 75mg cuts, and I started using cuts of 0.05mg per day, I used this cut for about a month with no probs, so I upped the cut and thats when things went wrong.

Will I heal and be able to go up further if I stick to 0.05 a bit longer, or is this the biggest cut I am going to ever be able to do in my 75mg taper?

The thought fills me with despiar.

I know plenty of benzo heads who have come off 75mg in less than a year, they just dont come on forums as they dont get any problems tapering. I dunno if they dail cut or what.

[[St...]]

At 2.20mg of Valium on my microtaper and I have a couple of questions. I feel fine, for the most part. The only symptom of the taper that's noticeable is higher anxiety at times and my mind appears to be moving "faster". Not racing, but just hard to focus at times. Is that normal?

 

More importantly, I'm absent any major symptoms from my last taper (where I reinstated at 5mgs). Things like muscle spasms, pain, etc. I'm starting to get worried that this means I'm not healing and that jumping this time around will be much worse? Is that a valid concern? Am I thinking about this correctly?

[[...]]

At 2.20mg of Valium on my microtaper and I have a couple of questions. I feel fine, for the most part. The only symptom of the taper that's noticeable is higher anxiety at times and my mind appears to be moving "faster". Not racing, but just hard to focus at times. Is that normal?

 

More importantly, I'm absent any major symptoms from my last taper (where I reinstated at 5mgs). Things like muscle spasms, pain, etc. I'm starting to get worried that this means I'm not healing and that jumping this time around will be much worse? Is that a valid concern? Am I thinking about this correctly?

 

It sounds to me like you are doing a good job.  If you remain this way to zero, when you are done you will continue to feel well.

[[Ki...]]

I have all my goodies for liquid MT and once I get to 10 mg Im going to switch to liquid. I was afraid to do it until I got to 10 because of splitting doses, using a 2 mg pill and 2 - 5 mg pills.  Im about 1 1/2 weeks away from what I think will be 10 mg- can I get someone to check where Im at so I can be sure-

5 mg pills weigh 160 ea

2 mg weighs 172 ish

Today Im at .312 g of the 5 mg pills

and .36 of the 2 mg pill- I think Im at equiv of .326, with .320 being 10 mg. 

(I know its stupid but its easier for me to have tapered off multiple daily doses this way)

My pattern so far that I can tolerate seems to be about .001 g off every other day. Can anyone tell me the amount of liquid I will be dealing with daily to get this started? Thanks!

 

[[Pe...]]

Am I better off with daily micro tapering? I get the scale on Monday. Just curious! Been reading a lot about this. Any thought appreciated!

[[bu...]]

Am I better off with daily micro tapering? I get the scale on Monday. Just curious! Been reading a lot about this. Any thought appreciated!

 

Which do you think would be more tolerable...10 tiny cuts, or one big cut?

 

I did C&H from 15 down to 9.  Each cut was difficult and trying to go from 9 to 8.5 was impossible.

 

When I switched to daily microtaper, my taper was smooth and almost sxs free.

[[Pe...]]

Builder, when you C/H were they small cuts. I went from 1 mg of Colonzapam to .75.

That was too much at one time. Waiting for scale to arrive . Trying to do this the best way I can. It's been a little over two weeks since I tapered . Not sure which direction to go.

[[bu...]]

Builder, when you C/H were they small cuts. I went from 1 mg of Colonzapam to .75.

That was too much at one time. Waiting for scale to arrive . Trying to do this the best way I can. It's been a little over two weeks since I tapered . Not sure which direction to go.

 

 

I was doing .5mg V every 2 weeks...pretty hard to do much smaller.  When I got down to 9mg, even that was too big a cut.

[[Ul...]]

Hi!!

[[...]]

Builder- what made 9 to 8.5 impossible for you? Like were the symptoms debilitating? How long did you wait to updose back to 9 and then after how long would you feel better?

 

Why do you think some ppl say MT doesn't work for them and they go back to c/h?

 

[[bu...]]

From 15 down to 9, the sxs resolved after 36-48 hours.  Trying to go from 9 to 8.5 (3 times) the sxs never stopped.  I was miserable and essentially disabled.  To recover, I would actually updose to 12-11-10 and 9 on consecutive days.  It would actually take 4-5 days to get back to  baseline.

 

 

No offense to anyone, but it makes absolutely no sense that C&H could be more tolerable than a daily taper at a comparable rate. As I said in my firs resonse, "Which do you think would be more tolerable...10 tiny cuts, or one big cut?"

 

Why do some people think microtaper is not better.  1)  There is a high probability that they made errors in calculating or measuring their doses.  2)  They actually felt the delayed effects of prior cuts, dose changes, med changes, etc.  3)  People tend to assume that if Y follow X, the Y must have been caused by X...very bad logic.  4)  Its psychosomatic.

[Guest [Jo...]]

I am on 75mg cuts, and I started using cuts of 0.05mg per day, I used this cut for about a month with no probs, so I upped the cut and thats when things went wrong.

Will I heal and be able to go up further if I stick to 0.05 a bit longer, or is this the biggest cut I am going to ever be able to do in my 75mg taper?

The thought fills me with despiar.

I know plenty of benzo heads who have come off 75mg in less than a year, they just dont come on forums as they dont get any problems tapering. I dunno if they dail cut or what.

[[...]]

 

Builder - can you explain delayed reactions to me please?  How do you avoid that??? 

 

 

[Guest [Jo...]]

From 15 down to 9, the sxs resolved after 36-48 hours.  Trying to go from 9 to 8.5 (3 times) the sxs never stopped.  I was miserable and essentially disabled.  To recover, I would actually updose to 12-11-10 and 9 on consecutive days.  It would actually take 4-5 days to get back to  baseline.

 

 

No offense to anyone, but it makes absolutely no sense that C&H could be more tolerable than a daily taper at a comparable rate.  As I said in my firs resonse, "Which do you think would be more tolerable...10 tiny cuts, or one big cut?"

 

Why do some people think microtaper is not better.  1)  There is a high probability that they made errors in calculating or measuring their doses.  2)  They actually felt the delayed effects of prior cuts, dose changes, med changes, etc.  3)  People tend to assume that if Y follow X, the Y must have been caused by X...very bad logic.  4)  Its psychosomatic.

I see what you mean.

I hope to microtaper fromm my 75mg but the drugs agency might not prescribe that much. If I take less I get the runs, like visiting bathroom 9 times in one day and immodium just gives me cramps but it does harden the stool and make it less frequent.

[[an...]]

From 15 down to 9, the sxs resolved after 36-48 hours.  Trying to go from 9 to 8.5 (3 times) the sxs never stopped.  I was miserable and essentially disabled.  To recover, I would actually updose to 12-11-10 and 9 on consecutive days.  It would actually take 4-5 days to get back to  baseline.

 

 

No offense to anyone, but it makes absolutely no sense that C&H could be more tolerable than a daily taper at a comparable rate.  As I said in my firs resonse, "Which do you think would be more tolerable...10 tiny cuts, or one big cut?"

 

Why do some people think microtaper is not better.  1)  There is a high probability that they made errors in calculating or measuring their doses.  2)  They actually felt the delayed effects of prior cuts, dose changes, med changes, etc.  3)  People tend to assume that if Y follow X, the Y must have been caused by X...very bad logic.  4)  Its psychosomatic.

 

I also hear of many experiencing  problems when switching from dry cutting  to liquid.  I think one possibility is that when people are dry cutting, they could be taking a higher dose than what they are actually taking.  When  switching to liquid, assuming all calculations and measurements are correct, they could end up taking less of the drug which will of course will feel like a cut.  This does not make much of a difference if one stays with the dry cut method because the measurements are relative.  One might think he/she is taking x amount, but as long as there is consistency it works out in the end. On the other hand, when switching from one method to another, any error in the actual dosage vs dosage one thinks they are taking will cause problems.

 

From my experience, making tiny cuts each day over a two week period is a much smoother ride down than making one 10% cut.  That would certainly be too much for me to handle.

 

Anne

[[bu...]]

 

Builder - can you explain delayed reactions to me please?  How do you avoid that???

  Do you mean lag time?...the time span between a dose reduction and the body's response to the reduction?ent

 

Because of its long half-life,  blood levels of diazepam and to a lesser extent librium, are slow to drop even when the dose is reduced.

[[bu...]]

 

 

I also hear of many experiencing  problems when switching from dry cutting  to liquid.  I think one possibility is that when people are dry cutting, they could be taking a higher dose than what they are actually taking.  When  switching to liquid, assuming all calculations and measurements are correct, they could end up taking less of the drug which will of course will feel like a cut.  This does not make much of a difference if one stays with the dry cut method because the measurements are relative.  One might think he/she is taking x amount, but as long as there is consistency it works out in the end. On the other hand, when switching from one method to another, any error in the actual dosage vs dosage one thinks they are taking will cause problems.

 

From my experience, making tiny cuts each day over a two week period is a much smoother ride down than making one 10% cut.  That would certainly be too much for me to handle.

 

Anne

 

IMO, the logic of that is overwhelming!  10 (or 14) tiny cuts has got to be easier than 1 big cut.  I don't see any way possible that 10 tiny cuts could be harder than 1 cut 10X as big.

[[St...]]

builder, how many times a day did you dose your valium? from 9mg down.....