Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Be...]]

Stella and deep, I am on the road and it is hard to post. I will try to answer later.

 

I gave Deep an answer on K Thread.

 

Stella, wish I could help but am unfamiliar with V titration.

[[St...]]

Thanks SG, no hurry.....stella

[[de...]]

Thanks SG be safe and will watch for an answer later

 

Bennie answered me on the k thread but wanted the math checked

 

deep

[[...]]

SG I really need your help...i have been in the hospital twice..i am down to 100lbs and my hr went to 258 and i was admitted and diagnosed with Supraventricular tachycardia none of the cardio docs would talk about the benzos being any cause of it or the pvcs....something they said either surgery or live with it..my husband best friend and son all thinks the palps and the the hr going haywire is benzo related

 

since the swallowing problem started and i have updosed to 2.75mgs

i have to crush the pills and put them on a med paper and then take them..i am not well and it hit me today how the pills were being done

 

i was taking .75mgs .75mgs .50mgs and .75mgs to get the 2.75 a day

so today it hit me i am having some days that are really bad and then some days i can tolerate..i cant drive anymore and most days dont leave my chair unless i have a doc appt.

 

so i took out the crushed pills that i had cut with a pill cutter and weighed the weighs for the day some of them are making my days .012gms off and i know thats alot and i am sure some days are more and thats got me on a merry go round.

 

so i was thinking either taking the average .173 of 1 mg tabs and you do the math for the doses and i will just crush the pills for the week up and weigh it out on the scale in powder and then it would be more accurate..i could do up to 2 weeks worth at a time.

 

so would i need to know the average for you to give me the weights? or can i just crush all the pills up in a mortal and pestal and then tar out the med paper and put the powder on it? if i can do that what would the weighs be for my 4 doses?

 

sorry this is so long and makes some kind of sense cause i am in a really bad place and need to pull out and this sounds like it will help

 

thanks for all your help

 

deep

 

It sounds like you are using 1mg pills that weigh .173g?  That's 5.78mg/g.  To get .75mg, .75mg, .5mg, .75mg you'd dose .130g, .130, .087g, .130g.  A weeks worth would be these numbers x7, added together...

 

7x(.13g+.13g+.13g+.087g)=3.339g

 

Two weeks worth would be twice this...6.678g.

 

Hope this helps and in in line with what Bennie got.  FWIW, symptoms tend to wax and wane on their own - there may be no other cause.  Mine do all the time.  One day good, one day lousy.  Gotta go.

[[de...]]

SG I really need your help...i have been in the hospital twice..i am down to 100lbs and my hr went to 258 and i was admitted and diagnosed with Supraventricular tachycardia none of the cardio docs would talk about the benzos being any cause of it or the pvcs....something they said either surgery or live with it..my husband best friend and son all thinks the palps and the the hr going haywire is benzo related

 

since the swallowing problem started and i have updosed to 2.75mgs

i have to crush the pills and put them on a med paper and then take them..i am not well and it hit me today how the pills were being done

 

i was taking .75mgs .75mgs .50mgs and .75mgs to get the 2.75 a day

so today it hit me i am having some days that are really bad and then some days i can tolerate..i cant drive anymore and most days dont leave my chair unless i have a doc appt.

 

so i took out the crushed pills that i had cut with a pill cutter and weighed the weighs for the day some of them are making my days .012gms off and i know thats alot and i am sure some days are more and thats got me on a merry go round.

 

so i was thinking either taking the average .173 of 1 mg tabs and you do the math for the doses and i will just crush the pills for the week up and weigh it out on the scale in powder and then it would be more accurate..i could do up to 2 weeks worth at a time.

 

so would i need to know the average for you to give me the weights? or can i just crush all the pills up in a mortal and pestal and then tar out the med paper and put the powder on it? if i can do that what would the weighs be for my 4 doses?

 

sorry this is so long and makes some kind of sense cause i am in a really bad place and need to pull out and this sounds like it will help

 

thanks for all your help

 

deep

 

It sounds like you are using 1mg pills that weigh .173g?  That's 5.78mg/g.  To get .75mg, .75mg, .5mg, .75mg you'd dose .130g, .130, .087g, .130g.  A weeks worth would be these numbers x7, added together...

 

7x(.13g+.13g+.13g+.087g)=3.339g

 

Two weeks worth would be twice this...6.678g.

 

Hope this helps and in in line with what Bennie got.  FWIW, symptoms tend to wax and wane on their own - there may be no other cause.  Mine do all the time.  One day good, one day lousy.  Gotta go.

 

 

I cant thank you enough for taking time out to answer me back..and when i weighed my cut pills that had been crushed they were weighing like .118 gms to .126gms and the .5mg was eighing from .072gms to .081gms so i have never been anywhere near accurate..and sure hoping that now i am going to be crushing an weighing the powder that it be right will some how pull me out of this..cause i dont know how much longer i can hold on medically,,

 

thanks again

 

deep

[[...]]

SG, I think I have messed up my cross so bad.....my brain is so confused, I wonder if I show you how I am doing this if you can help at all,  you have been so very patient with me and I have messed things up out of desperation...  my liquid solution is 1ml/1mg.  I am still feeling very very sedated and tipsy on the v.  I know v sedates you, but I am pretty drunk feeling...is this too much v?

 

                                      2:00 am I take 3 mg v

                                      6:00 am "  ""  3 mg v

                                      10:00 am        .535 ml a

                                        2:00 pm        .535 ml a and .50 mg v

                                        6:00 pm        .535 ml a and .50 mg v

                                        10.00 pm      .535ml a and .50 mg v and 6.5 ambien

 

                                  I have 2 doses left to cut yet, and 1.5 mg of v left.  still experiencing lots of interdose sxs....I stupidly listened to a friend, (NOT ANNIE) and she said to get a lot of v into you first and then do the cutting of a and the ID wouldn't be so bad....I don't know if covering some of the doses I have left with more of the v taken from those 2 in the middle of the night doses of 3 mg v would be helpful, I want to end up with 3 doses a day of 3 mg v each.  would that be too much moving around for my CNS?  I would love to get rid of the 2:00 in the middle of the night dose for sure, hate waking up,  I  have to show progress for the doctor...I have an appointment in a month or so.....my husband and I keep throwing ideas around and I'm not sure which works....my worst id sxs are at the 10 in the morning and 2:00 afternoon dose.  Would it be better to get rid of those doses last?  My v doses are so out of balance, does that matter at all?  We just cut the 2 oclock dose today and added .50 of v, but wondered if we should cover the 10 o'clock morning dose with some v since I experience so much withdrawal there? (I never covered it because there was so much v during the night, 6mg.)  thought it would cover the ten oclock dose....when will I learn to listen to the right people??  so sorry to bother you again...just wondered if you had any thoughts about where to go from here....thanks again stella bee....(I didn't know crossovers were so difficult)

 

Crossovers usually aren't this hard.  I don't know what is up with you.  Usually V does not require so many doses, but what matters is how many you need.  I'm always for evening out the doses.  If you wanted to try three, space them eight hours apart.  I see the ambien is still there.

[[St...]]

ok, thanks SG, I will just keep plugging on....I do want to even out the doses to three, but thought that had to wait until the end of the crossover and I am still crossing some of my six doses of Ativan...does it matter if I start moving them around now?  I think it is just so different than the Ativan that it is hard to get used to the feelings and how it acts...and I am so dopey on the v....well, more dopey than normal...lol!  Thanks again, you are a gem.....stella

[[...]]

ok, thanks SG, I will just keep plugging on....I do want to even out the doses to three, but thought that had to wait until the end of the crossover and I am still crossing some of my six doses of Ativan...does it matter if I start moving them around now?  I think it is just so different than the Ativan that it is hard to get used to the feelings and how it acts...and I am so dopey on the v....well, more dopey than normal...lol!  Thanks again, you are a gem.....stella

 

The .535ml is ativan?  1ml/1mg does not make sense in that case.  Did you mean .1mg/ml?  You're dosing ativan over 12 hours and ambien only once.  That is pretty off balance.  The V is somewhat better, but is also off.

[[my...]]

Hi SG 

 

Hope your "on the road" was a smooth one....

 

I looked back on our various posts about possible timelines for the remainder of my taper....I know...   Anyhow, I think you calculated around 8 months (from here) at .006g every 10 days but that you thought I would probably get to zero sooner than that.  If so, how?  I'm feeling fine with the exception of occasional ear pressure, not pain thank goodness.  That is really it beside a ramping up of anxiety during more stressful or rushed situations.  Fully functional otherwise, with the newest accomplishment being that I have read a novel (an easy read) almost to the end.  My first book since the beginning of my taper!!  I've been able to read articles - magazine, newspaper, online stuff - but no books.  Haven't had the ability to concentrate for sustained periods. 

 

So - without speeding things up enough to do a 100 day taper which would amount to .007g every 7 days - how do I manage to do it in, say, 5 months ending with year's end?  I know it will be over when it's over...but since I think I can really do this by the end of the year, what should I tinker with?  This cut has been .007g rather than .006g and it has been no different, really, though I know sxs can catch up with us.  Waiting now until 10 days at this dose then will cut again on Tuesday to either .279 mg (a .006 g cut) or .276mg (a .007g cut). 

 

OR:

 

I could try something you once suggested which is a modified MT - say .003g every few days - 3 or 4 - and see how that goes.  It would amount to more than .006g/10 days over time but not be as much of a jolt as .007 once a week.

 

One thing Ashton does say, is not to "spin things out" forever at the end though I seem to recall you have had doubts about her methods and theories.

 

Thanks, SG - or others who might want to chime in. 

 

[[St...]]

so if I keep tapering the a once a week,  that should help right?  I don't have enough v to taper the ambien right now, doc is strict on how much v he will let me have. don't know else how to fix it....have to just keep going I guess....thanks. 

 

[[...]]

Hi SG 

 

Hope your "on the road" was a smooth one....

 

I looked back on our various posts about possible timelines for the remainder of my taper....I know...   Anyhow, I think you calculated around 8 months (from here) at .006g every 10 days but that you thought I would probably get to zero sooner than that.  If so, how?  I'm feeling fine with the exception of occasional ear pressure, not pain thank goodness.  That is really it beside a ramping up of anxiety during more stressful or rushed situations.  Fully functional otherwise, with the newest accomplishment being that I have read a novel (an easy read) almost to the end.  My first book since the beginning of my taper!!  I've been able to read articles - magazine, newspaper, online stuff - but no books.  Haven't had the ability to concentrate for sustained periods. 

 

So - without speeding things up enough to do a 100 day taper which would amount to .007g every 7 days - how do I manage to do it in, say, 5 months ending with year's end?  I know it will be over when it's over...but since I think I can really do this by the end of the year, what should I tinker with?  This cut has been .007g rather than .006g and it has been no different, really, though I know sxs can catch up with us.  Waiting now until 10 days at this dose then will cut again on Tuesday to either .279 mg (a .006 g cut) or .276mg (a .007g cut). 

 

OR:

 

I could try something you once suggested which is a modified MT - say .003g every few days - 3 or 4 - and see how that goes.  It would amount to more than .006g/10 days over time but not be as much of a jolt as .007 once a week.

 

One thing Ashton does say, is not to "spin things out" forever at the end though I seem to recall you have had doubts about her methods and theories.

 

Thanks, SG - or others who might want to chime in.

 

You have a method that is working well and moving pretty good.  I'd be reluctant to change it since you have reached the goal, which is to feel well while tapering.  Also, as you go lower you'll need to slow down.  If you do decide to go faster I'd go with smaller, more frequent cuts.  That will make the drug work harder for you.

[[...]]

so if I keep tapering the a once a week,  that should help right?  I don't have enough v to taper the ambien right now, doc is strict on how much v he will let me have. don't know else how to fix it....have to just keep going I guess....thanks.

 

I'd get rid of the A first.

[[my...]]

Thanks, SG. 

 

I agree that if I do change anything, more frequent, smaller cuts might be something to try.

 

Actually though, I was asking for your help to figure how I would get to zero in 5 months....if you could answer that, just numbers-wise - that would be nice.  ( I.e. if 100 days = .001g/daily, or .007 every week, then 160 days = X?). Doesn't mean I'll go crazy, tapering more quickly than my CNS allows.  I would just like to know how it COULD be done, if I could do it (which I may or may not be able to do!  ). For some reason, I'm drawing a blank right now. 

 

[[St...]]

will do.....I'll get there....thank you!    Stella Bee   

[[...]]

Thanks, SG. 

 

I agree that if I do change anything, more frequent, smaller cuts might be something to try.

 

Actually though, I was asking for your help to figure how I would get to zero in 5 months....if you could answer that, just numbers-wise - that would be nice.  ( I.e. if 100 days = .001g/daily, or .007 every week, then 160 days = X?). Doesn't mean I'll go crazy, tapering more quickly than my CNS allows.  I would just like to know how it COULD be done, if I could do it (which I may or may not be able to do!  ). For some reason, I'm drawing a blank right now. 

 

If your current dose is .100g and you did a straight line linear taper over five months (150 days) that would project to .00066g a day or .0066g every 10 days.  You could get very close to this by alternating .006g and .007g cuts.

[[my...]]

Right.  I knew I had calculated it before at my current/projected pace without speeding things up - and without longer holds.  If travel or other stuff comes up - or if the cuts become difficult and I am too symptomatic - then by definition, it will take longer.

 

The key was working it all in grams. 

 

Thanks for this, SG. Much appreciated. 

[[Lo...]]

Hi SG 

......One thing Ashton does say, is not to "spin things out" forever at the end though I seem to recall you have had doubts about her methods and theories.....

 

You have a method that is working well and moving pretty good.  I'd be reluctant to change it since you have reached the goal, which is to feel well while tapering.  Also, as you go lower you'll need to slow down.  If you do decide to go faster I'd go with smaller, more frequent cuts.  That will make the drug work harder for you.

Hi SG, I am down to 1.8 mg now and finding sleep more difficult - both to initiate and maintain. Guess I have to hold for awhile and let my body catch up?

 

I am cutting and reducing by 1% per day - current dose. I am really wondering why one needs to go slow the lower one gets. It doesn't make sense to me but I do have high cortisol when I wake very early these days. Also anxious feeling and tight neck/shoulder muscles.

 

I am finding it more difficult to cut the tiny amounts of Zopiclone. I spoke to a Compounding Pharmacist yesterday about a liquid taper but since Zopiclone tastes terrible he suggested they make caps in the amounts of .5, 1 and 1.5.

 

Do you have any other idea I could try either on my own or with their help?  Many thanks, LL

[[...]]

Hi SG, I am down to 1.8 mg now and finding sleep more difficult - both to initiate and maintain. Guess I have to hold for awhile and let my body catch up?

 

I am cutting and reducing by 1% per day - current dose. I am really wondering why one needs to go slow the lower one gets. It doesn't make sense to me but I do have high cortisol when I wake very early these days. Also anxious feeling and tight neck/shoulder muscles.

 

I am finding it more difficult to cut the tiny amounts of Zopiclone. I spoke to a Compounding Pharmacist yesterday about a liquid taper but since Zopiclone tastes terrible he suggested they make caps in the amounts of .5, 1 and 1.5.

 

Do you have any other idea I could try either on my own or with their help?  Many thanks, LL

 

We need to go slower simply because that is the way drug doses work in the body.  The lower the dose the more receptors are exposed for a given cut so to counteract this we go slower to make the number of receptors exposed be the same.  It is just an artifact of the dose-receptor relationship and nothing more.

 

If the zopiclone were liquid, once your doses are prepared you can flavor them any way you want to help with taste.

[[ga...]]

Chemisty-ese

 

I have been weekly-tapering my Q for some time while holding my L. (My doctor wants me to be holding everything, apparently for eternity, but I am not that patient.) I've been considering switching from dry cutting my Q to suspending my Q. I have started to practice making the liquid. I have 3 questions.

 

1. I have never had to disintegrate a tablet before. The Q tablet readily disintegrates in water but some of the little pieces are bigger than some of the other pieces. Most are specks almost too small to see, but some are bits easy to see. Is this typical when you disintegrate a tablet in water? Could some of the medication still be bound up in the bigger bits? Should I be concerned?

 

2. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/578537/ I am sure that somewhere in this sheet it says whether or not I can mix up a batch of liquid Q and store it. It may even say if it can be dissolved in something I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, I can't understand most of what it is saying. Can someone who speaks chemistry-ese understand this?

 

3. I have been using 100ml of liquid for my benzo tapers. I have my Q at a point that it would be so much easier to suspend it in 50ml and measure from there. Is this dangerous? More dangerous than dry cutting, which is what I'm doing now? BTW, I am at 17mg Q, down from 25 (entire tablet weighs 101) and want to just hold here and go back to tapering the L. So, whatever method I decide on, I am going to be using it for a very, very long time.

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

[[...]]

Chemisty-ese

 

I have been weekly-tapering my Q for some time while holding my L. (My doctor wants me to be holding everything, apparently for eternity, but I am not that patient.) I've been considering switching from dry cutting my Q to suspending my Q. I have started to practice making the liquid. I have 3 questions.

 

1. I have never had to disintegrate a tablet before. The Q tablet readily disintegrates in water but some of the little pieces are bigger than some of the other pieces. Most are specks almost too small to see, but some are bits easy to see. Is this typical when you disintegrate a tablet in water? Could some of the medication still be bound up in the bigger bits? Should I be concerned?

 

2. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/578537/ I am sure that somewhere in this sheet it says whether or not I can mix up a batch of liquid Q and store it. It may even say if it can be dissolved in something I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, I can't understand most of what it is saying. Can someone who speaks chemistry-ese understand this?

 

3. I have been using 100ml of liquid for my benzo tapers. I have my Q at a point that it would be so much easier to suspend it in 50ml and measure from there. Is this dangerous? More dangerous than dry cutting, which is what I'm doing now? BTW, I am at 17mg Q, down from 25 (entire tablet weighs 101) and want to just hold here and go back to tapering the L. So, whatever method I decide on, I am going to be using it for a very, very long time.

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

Gard, Here's my comments FWIW.  I'm sure others will have additional info...

 

1.  IDK.  I never did that, but the tiny tiny flecks are what you want.  The smaller the better.

 

2.  It looks like they are dissolving in methanol, which is poisonous.

 

3.  I don't think it is dangerous to suspend the Q in water.  It is probably more accurate than dry cutting with a scale.  To get an idea of a useful concentration for tapering we can assume you want to taper 10% of your dose per month and find if the daily cut for this is at least 5% of a 1ml syringe (which to me is the smallest manageable cut).  10% of 17mg is 1.7mg, which is .057mg daily.  On a 1ml syringe .05ml would need to be at most .057mg so the concentration would need to be at most ~1mg/ml.  This means if you used 50ml of water you could get away with suspending 50mg Q and still make accurate cuts.  Anything less would be even better.  This is all ballpark, but it gives an idea.

[[ga...]]

Chemisty-ese

 

I have been weekly-tapering my Q for some time while holding my L. (My doctor wants me to be holding everything, apparently for eternity, but I am not that patient.) I've been considering switching from dry cutting my Q to suspending my Q. I have started to practice making the liquid. I have 3 questions.

 

1. I have never had to disintegrate a tablet before. The Q tablet readily disintegrates in water but some of the little pieces are bigger than some of the other pieces. Most are specks almost too small to see, but some are bits easy to see. Is this typical when you disintegrate a tablet in water? Could some of the medication still be bound up in the bigger bits? Should I be concerned?

 

2. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/578537/ I am sure that somewhere in this sheet it says whether or not I can mix up a batch of liquid Q and store it. It may even say if it can be dissolved in something I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, I can't understand most of what it is saying. Can someone who speaks chemistry-ese understand this?

 

3. I have been using 100ml of liquid for my benzo tapers. I have my Q at a point that it would be so much easier to suspend it in 50ml and measure from there. Is this dangerous? More dangerous than dry cutting, which is what I'm doing now? BTW, I am at 17mg Q, down from 25 (entire tablet weighs 101) and want to just hold here and go back to tapering the L. So, whatever method I decide on, I am going to be using it for a very, very long time.

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

Gard, Here's my comments FWIW.  I'm sure others will have additional info...

 

1.  IDK.  I never did that, but the tiny tiny flecks are what you want.  The smaller the better.

 

2.  It looks like they are dissolving in methanol, which is poisonous.

 

3.  I don't think it is dangerous to suspend the Q in water.  It is probably more accurate than dry cutting with a scale.  To get an idea of a useful concentration for tapering we can assume you want to taper 10% of your dose per month and find if the daily cut for this is at least 5% of a 1ml syringe (which to me is the smallest manageable cut).  10% of 17mg is 1.7mg, which is .057mg daily.  On a 1ml syringe .05ml would need to be at most .057mg so the concentration would need to be at most ~1mg/ml.  This means if you used 50ml of water you could get away with suspending 50mg Q and still make accurate cuts.  Anything less would be even better.  This is all ballpark, but it gives an idea.

 

Thanks, SG. I'm having an extreme-fatigue wave so my brain is barely speaking English let alone Chemistry-ese.

 

1. 98% seems to be the itty bitty bits. Only a few bigger bits. Not sure why those pieces are so determined to be bigger. I wonder if it has something to do with the film coating on the tablet. Perhaps I will shake harder or let it sit longer on my next test. (I've been using the leftover pieces from the dry cuts for testing.)

 

2. Good grief, what's the point of dissolving in methanol?? Who are they trying to kill? I wonder if I can assume that if Q is stable in methanol it will be stable in water. I haven't found anything on that. I did find a compounding page for pharmacists that said to use almond oil. So it must also be stable in almond oil. Just can't find anybody testing for water stability no matter what I put into Google.

 

3. I actually plan to hold the Q for awhile and go back to tapering the L. I want to use the 50ml because it's less bother than the 100ml I'm using with the L. I just didn't know if it would be too concentrated to cover for goof ups. But it sounds like it should be OK.

 

Here's my plan. Disintegrate and suspend one 25mg tablet per 50ml of water. Possibly do this daily or possibly make a batch for a week. Shake like crazy and draw up whatever would be 17mg of L. Each tablet weighs 101mg with rare exception (which I round 100mg to make it easier to do the math.). I have dry cut to 68mg.  I think that means I am taking 17mg of Q, right? So then 17mg dosed as the liquid would be 34ml of the suspension? It just sounds way easier to draw up and drink only 34ml rather than 68ml with my 10ml syringe. I do not intend to cut. I intend to hold the Q and go back to the L taper sometime soon. Then maybe go back to the Q again after I'm lower on the L.

 

So, do you see anything wrong with my diluting plan? Math mistakes? Anything?

 

Thanks. And anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

Gard

[[an...]]

Chemisty-ese

 

I have been weekly-tapering my Q for some time while holding my L. (My doctor wants me to be holding everything, apparently for eternity, but I am not that patient.) I've been considering switching from dry cutting my Q to suspending my Q. I have started to practice making the liquid. I have 3 questions.

 

1. I have never had to disintegrate a tablet before. The Q tablet readily disintegrates in water but some of the little pieces are bigger than some of the other pieces. Most are specks almost too small to see, but some are bits easy to see. Is this typical when you disintegrate a tablet in water? Could some of the medication still be bound up in the bigger bits? Should I be concerned?

 

2. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/578537/ I am sure that somewhere in this sheet it says whether or not I can mix up a batch of liquid Q and store it. It may even say if it can be dissolved in something I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, I can't understand most of what it is saying. Can someone who speaks chemistry-ese understand this?

 

3. I have been using 100ml of liquid for my benzo tapers. I have my Q at a point that it would be so much easier to suspend it in 50ml and measure from there. Is this dangerous? More dangerous than dry cutting, which is what I'm doing now? BTW, I am at 17mg Q, down from 25 (entire tablet weighs 101) and want to just hold here and go back to tapering the L. So, whatever method I decide on, I am going to be using it for a very, very long time.

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gardner,

 

Yes, ingesting a few mL of methanol would cause death.  The reason they used methanol is because it is one of the most common solvents used for HPLC analysis.  Their goal was to determine the concentration in the drug. 

 

I would think the drug might be soluble in ethanol though.  I thought you mentioned somewhere that it was not stable in ethanol so if that is the case, I would just use water.  Try using a small mortar and pestle to crush the pill. You will be able to get much smaller particles that are consistent in size.  I ordered a very small one from Amazon.  Mine looks something like this one

 

https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-691D-Porcelain-Mortar-Pestle/dp/B000P4SCQ0/ref=sr_1_21?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1469148257&sr=1-21&keywords=mortar+and+pestle

 

You would put the pill into this and add a couple of mL of water and then crush it with the pestle.  You would then add a bit more of your measured water.  Pour it into your dose jar. Take some more of the measured water and pour into the mortar to make sure you get all of the residue into the dose jar. (pour into jar).  I used to do this step two or three times. 

 

Good luck,

Anne

[[ga...]]

Chemisty-ese

 

I have been weekly-tapering my Q for some time while holding my L. (My doctor wants me to be holding everything, apparently for eternity, but I am not that patient.) I've been considering switching from dry cutting my Q to suspending my Q. I have started to practice making the liquid. I have 3 questions.

 

1. I have never had to disintegrate a tablet before. The Q tablet readily disintegrates in water but some of the little pieces are bigger than some of the other pieces. Most are specks almost too small to see, but some are bits easy to see. Is this typical when you disintegrate a tablet in water? Could some of the medication still be bound up in the bigger bits? Should I be concerned?

 

2. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/578537/ I am sure that somewhere in this sheet it says whether or not I can mix up a batch of liquid Q and store it. It may even say if it can be dissolved in something I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, I can't understand most of what it is saying. Can someone who speaks chemistry-ese understand this?

 

3. I have been using 100ml of liquid for my benzo tapers. I have my Q at a point that it would be so much easier to suspend it in 50ml and measure from there. Is this dangerous? More dangerous than dry cutting, which is what I'm doing now? BTW, I am at 17mg Q, down from 25 (entire tablet weighs 101) and want to just hold here and go back to tapering the L. So, whatever method I decide on, I am going to be using it for a very, very long time.

 

Thanks.

 

Gard

 

Hi Gardner,

 

Yes, ingesting a few mL of methanol would cause death.  The reason they used methanol is because it is one of the most common solvents used for HPLC analysis.  Their goal was to determine the concentration in the drug. 

 

I would think the drug might be soluble in ethanol though.  I thought you mentioned somewhere that it was not stable in ethanol so if that is the case, I would just use water.  Try using a small mortar and pestle to crush the pill. You will be able to get much smaller particles that are consistent in size.  I ordered a very small one from Amazon.  Mine looks something like this one

 

https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-691D-Porcelain-Mortar-Pestle/dp/B000P4SCQ0/ref=sr_1_21?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1469148257&sr=1-21&keywords=mortar+and+pestle

 

You would put the pill into this and add a couple of mL of water and then crush it with the pestle.  You would then add a bit more of your measured water.  Pour it into your dose jar. Take some more of the measured water and pour into the mortar to make sure you get all of the residue into the dose jar. (pour into jar).  I used to do this step two or three times. 

 

Good luck,

Anne

 

Thank you, Anne. I actually do have small mortar and pestle. The very bottom of the mortar is not perfectly smooth. It has little ridges that could catch things.  But that would be OK if I were rinsing it out right several times, right?

 

Is there enough residue on the pestle to be concerned about rinsing that, too, somehow?

 

Do you think this is a better option than dry cutting? I have to say, I'm just tired of the dry cutting. I figure since I'm already setting up 3 little jars of L liquid each night, why not set up a little jar of Q liquid, too.

 

I don't know what ethanol exactly is and I can't remember if Q is stable in it or not. I know L is not stable in any liquid. That's why I make up only one day's dose of it at a time. I haven't found anything about whether or not Q is stable in water. I did find it is probably stable in almond oil. Bleh.

 

Gard

[[an...]]

 

Thank you, Anne. I actually do have small mortar and pestle. The very bottom of the mortar is not perfectly smooth. It has little ridges that could catch things.  But that would be OK if I were rinsing it out right several times, right?

 

Is there enough residue on the pestle to be concerned about rinsing that, too, somehow?

 

Do you think this is a better option than dry cutting? I have to say, I'm just tired of the dry cutting. I figure since I'm already setting up 3 little jars of L liquid each night, why not set up a little jar of Q liquid, too.

 

I don't know what ethanol exactly is and I can't remember if Q is stable in it or not. I know L is not stable in any liquid. That's why I make up only one day's dose of it at a time. I haven't found anything about whether or not Q is stable in water. I did find it is probably stable in almond oil. Bleh.

 

Gard

 

Gard,

 

Yes, it will be fine if you rinse a few times.  You can rinse the pestle.  Just pour a bit of water over it as you hold it over the mortar. 

 

Ethanol is the type of alcohol that we drink--for example 80 proof vodka is 40% ethanol.  If you are going to liquefy, water will be better than almond oil because you will not be able to dilute the oil.

 

Anne 

[[ga...]]

 

Thank you, Anne. I actually do have small mortar and pestle. The very bottom of the mortar is not perfectly smooth. It has little ridges that could catch things.  But that would be OK if I were rinsing it out right several times, right?

 

Is there enough residue on the pestle to be concerned about rinsing that, too, somehow?

 

Do you think this is a better option than dry cutting? I have to say, I'm just tired of the dry cutting. I figure since I'm already setting up 3 little jars of L liquid each night, why not set up a little jar of Q liquid, too.

 

I don't know what ethanol exactly is and I can't remember if Q is stable in it or not. I know L is not stable in any liquid. That's why I make up only one day's dose of it at a time. I haven't found anything about whether or not Q is stable in water. I did find it is probably stable in almond oil. Bleh.

 

Gard

 

Gard,

 

Yes, it will be fine if you rinse a few times.  You can rinse the pestle.  Just pour a bit of water over it as you hold it over the mortar. 

 

Ethanol is the type of alcohol that we drink--for example 80 proof vodka is 40% ethanol.  If you are going to liquefy, water will be better than almond oil because you will not be able to dilute the oil.

 

Anne 

 

Thanks, Anne!