Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ki...]]

It seems to me most people try to cut down a mg a month at first if they are around the 10 mg range- and .03 a day ends up being pretty close to that anyway....so, swell. I will start there- when I get back!

[[...]]

The only reason my doses are not even is because it does make me sleepy so I take more at night for that reason only. I do think the unevenness of my dosing is a part of my headaches. I will try to move a bit more of my night dose to daytime. I have no problems with anxiety, and even through that hideous crossover that really was not an issue. Hopefully that will hold true because I am taking a cruise next week ( gasp!) with my stepdad to scatter my Moms ashes. Its on an old peoples type cruise line and not a party boat, so hopefully all will go well. A good week to hold. I am pretty stable now, just " flat". But flat is better than whatever the hell all that stuff was the past few months yall helped me get through. 

 

Sorry about your mom.  I lost mine two years ago.  I don't want you to fix something that isn't broken.  Sleep is an important part of a taper so I'd be careful not to mess with that too much if you think this way is working.  Hopefully you can taper in a way that gets the flatness to lift.

[[Ki...]]

I do think the unevenness of my doses contribute some to the headaches. Plus having to taper some X during my crossover because of the lack of valium coverage by the doc. Maybe there is a happy medium in there- I can try adding a little to the day doses. Its probably as much the antihistamines making me sleep as the valium. But I am grateful that I seem to have made it this far ok and hopefully going slowly- if the doc sticks with the plan- will allow me to taper at whatever speed my brain says to. I already bought my liquid taper stuff.

I am so sorry for your loss SG. Big hug to you- and again, many thanks.

[[Fi...]]

SG Could you help me sort my thinking out on switching from cutting every other day to every day?  This was your comment to me in your last post - "Instead of .005mg every other day, I'd cut .0025mg every day.  There is an advantage to this that is there to take if you want to."

 

In order to taper .0025 mg every day I will have to dilute my compounded C.  My orig. mixture is .01MG/ML - I will dilute this by taking 1 ml of C and adding 9 mls of water to make a solution of 0.01 MG/ML.  This is a sampling of my chart starting with tonight's dosage of 0.450 mls:         

 

Dose Required      Original C - 0.1MG/ML                  Diluted C - 0.01 MG?ML

 

0.450                                                4 mls                                        5.0 mls of dilution

0.425                                                4 mls                                        2.5 mls of dilution                                               

0.4                                                    4 mls                                          -----------------

0.375                                                3 mls                                        7.5 mls of dilution

0.350                                                3 mls                                        5    mls of dilution

0.325                                                3 mls                                        2.5 mls of dilution

 

I'm getting confused about making the switch to cutting every day - I know I'll still be taking the same amount of C say over a weeks time, only I'll be reducing the amount I take every day, instead of every second day, BUT won't it be like a much bigger cut tonight?  Inevitable if I want to cut every day, but it feels like I'm missing something, or not doing something right?!  Does this look/sound right to you?

Thank you.  Finnie

 

 

[[...]]

SG Could you help me sort my thinking out on switching from cutting every other day to every day?  This was your comment to me in your last post - "Instead of .005mg every other day, I'd cut .0025mg every day.  There is an advantage to this that is there to take if you want to."

 

In order to taper .0025 mg every day I will have to dilute my compounded C.  My orig. mixture is .01MG/ML - I will dilute this by taking 1 ml of C and adding 9 mls of water to make a solution of 0.01 MG/ML.  This is a sampling of my chart starting with tonight's dosage of 0.450 mls:         

 

Dose Required      Original C - 0.1MG/ML                  Diluted C - 0.01 MG?ML

 

0.450                                                4 mls                                        5.0 mls of dilution

0.425                                                4 mls                                        2.5 mls of dilution                                               

0.4                                                    4 mls                                          -----------------

0.375                                                3 mls                                        7.5 mls of dilution

0.350                                                3 mls                                        5    mls of dilution

0.325                                                3 mls                                        2.5 mls of dilution

 

I'm getting confused about making the switch to cutting every day - I know I'll still be taking the same amount of C say over a weeks time, only I'll be reducing the amount I take every day, instead of every second day, BUT won't it be like a much bigger cut tonight?  Inevitable if I want to cut every day, but it feels like I'm missing something, or not doing something right?!  Does this look/sound right to you?

Thank you.  Finnie

 

Your current liquid K is .1mg/ml and you cut .005mg by cutting .05ml.  .0025mg is exactly half of .005mg.  The easiest way to cut .0025mg is to just cut exactly half of your current cut, or .025ml.  That's getting down there on the syringe, but it will do it.  This way, no dilution is required.

 

If you want to dilute, you can mix 9ml for each 1ml of the old liquid.  But is water okay for your liquid?  I forget what's in it.

[[Fi...]]

SG Could you help me sort my thinking out on switching from cutting every other day to every day?  This was your comment to me in your last post - "Instead of .005mg every other day, I'd cut .0025mg every day.  There is an advantage to this that is there to take if you want to."

 

In order to taper .0025 mg every day I will have to dilute my compounded C.  My orig. mixture is .01MG/ML - I will dilute this by taking 1 ml of C and adding 9 mls of water to make a solution of 0.01 MG/ML.  This is a sampling of my chart starting with tonight's dosage of 0.450 mls:         

 

Dose Required      Original C - 0.1MG/ML                  Diluted C - 0.01 MG?ML

 

0.450                                                4 mls                                        5.0 mls of dilution

0.425                                                4 mls                                        2.5 mls of dilution                                               

0.4                                                    4 mls                                          -----------------

0.375                                                3 mls                                        7.5 mls of dilution

0.350                                                3 mls                                        5    mls of dilution

0.325                                                3 mls                                        2.5 mls of dilution

 

I'm getting confused about making the switch to cutting every day - I know I'll still be taking the same amount of C say over a weeks time, only I'll be reducing the amount I take every day, instead of every second day, BUT won't it be like a much bigger cut tonight?  Inevitable if I want to cut every day, but it feels like I'm missing something, or not doing something right?!  Does this look/sound right to you?

Thank you.  Finnie

 

Your current liquid K is .1mg/ml and you cut .005mg by cutting .05ml.  .0025mg is exactly half of .005mg.  The easiest way to cut .0025mg is to just cut exactly half of your current cut, or .025ml.  That's getting down there on the syringe, but it will do it.  This way, no dilution is required.

 

If you want to dilute, you can mix 9ml for each 1ml of the old liquid.  But is water okay for your liquid?  I forget what's in it.

 

Yes, the pharmacist said it was ok to mix my compound with water - it is now mixed with ora sweet.  I don't feel I can measure accurately between those little lines on the syringe to measure in .25ml increments, so I will dilute the liquid. 

 

Now I am second guessing myself about changing things up, as it's so easy to measure in .05 increments!  One of the biggest issues is I'm not confident and knowledgeable enough about how to implement changes with this taper!  Thanks again, I always appreciate your comments and opinion. 

[[...]]

Your current liquid K is .1mg/ml and you cut .005mg by cutting .05ml.  .0025mg is exactly half of .005mg.  The easiest way to cut .0025mg is to just cut exactly half of your current cut, or .025ml.  That's getting down there on the syringe, but it will do it.  This way, no dilution is required.

 

If you want to dilute, you can mix 9ml for each 1ml of the old liquid.  But is water okay for your liquid?  I forget what's in it.

Yes, the pharmacist said it was ok to mix my compound with water - it is now mixed with ora sweet.  I don't feel I can measure accurately between those little lines on the syringe to measure in .25ml increments, so I will dilute the liquid. 

 

Now I am second guessing myself about changing things up, as it's so easy to measure in .05 increments!  One of the biggest issues is I'm not confident and knowledgeable enough about how to implement changes with this taper!  Thanks again, I always appreciate your comments and opinion.

 

I really think if you just estimated halfway to .05ml it would be fine.  It does not have to be exact.  I think it will work out fine.  Even if you missed by .01 or .02ml you'd still be better off than what you do now.

 

I don't know a lot about Ora Sweet, but I know they say it should only be diluted by 2 to 1 with water.  You're talking about 10 to 1.  I'd be concerned that that would be too much.  I'd definitely research that thoroughly before I did it.

[[ed...]]

I'm not sure where to get the maximum number of eyeballs on this, so I'll place this question in a couple of places:

 

Has anyone experienced problems with roasted sunflower seeds inducing a  wave?  These were unsalted, roasted, with no other ingredients from Trader Joes.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

--Ed

[[bu...]]

 

I really think if you just estimated halfway to .05ml it would be fine.  It does not have to be exact.  I think it will work out fine.  Even if you missed by .01 or .02ml you'd still be better off than what you do now.

I don't know a lot about Ora Sweet, but I know they say it should only be diluted by 2 to 1 with water.  You're talking about 10 to 1.  I'd be concerned that that would be too much.  I'd definitely research that thoroughly before I did it.

 

 

" ORA-Plus will retain its suspending properties when diluted up to 50% with water, flavoring agents, syrups or alcohol."

 

http://www.perrigo.com/files/rx/pdfs/pds173-ORA-Plus.pdf

[[ji...]]

Anyone else find the micro doses at the end got harder ? Im at .03 daily ativan and I got the benzo flu big time .My body aches everywhere and I have no energy whatsoever .I am trying to decide whether to hold here for awhile or just keep going ? Im thinking that maybe I am in acute due to it no longer registering in my body at this dosage .Its been a so - so ride from the beginning .Nothing to extreme as far as withdrawal symptoms but also not symptom less .I had the aching body before the ativan and was in poor health so it could be that its just "normal " .Im amazed that these benzos can mask pain so well .If it wasn't for feeling like a zombie while on them and it being so bad for the brain this stuff would be ideal for my health issues . But it is what it is and I have no interest in being a zombie for the rest of my life . Anyone else felt pretty good throughout the whole taper until the very end ? Did you just keep plugging away or jump or hold ?? Im open to any suggestions .I sure dont want to blow it at this stage of the game .Im really curious at what dose this stuff is no longer doing anything for you .Ive googled and googled it and cant find anything

[[bu...]]

Anyone else find the micro doses at the end got harder ? Im at .03 daily ativan and I got the benzo flu big time .My body aches everywhere and I have no energy whatsoever .I am trying to decide whether to hold here for awhile or just keep going ? Im thinking that maybe I am in acute due to it no longer registering in my body at this dosage .Its been a so - so ride from the beginning .Nothing to extreme as far as withdrawal symptoms but also not symptom less .I had the aching body before the ativan and was in poor health so it could be that its just "normal " .Im amazed that these benzos can mask pain so well .If it wasn't for feeling like a zombie while on them and it being so bad for the brain this stuff would be ideal for my health issues . But it is what it is and I have no interest in being a zombie for the rest of my life . Anyone else felt pretty good throughout the whole taper until the very end ? Did you just keep plugging away or jump or hold ?? Im open to any suggestions .I sure dont want to blow it at this stage of the game .Im really curious at what dose this stuff is no longer doing anything for you .Ive googled and googled it and cant find anything

 

I'm convinced that everyone does reach a point where even though they are still at some dose, it no longer has any effect.  But that point probably is different for everyone.

 

It was really pretty obvious to me that once I got down to 3mg V, I was "home free".  I had absolutely no sxs from that point on, and I jumped at .5

 

3mg V is roughly equivalent .3mg Ativan.

[[ji...]]

Thanks for the input builder I was hoping it would get easier and easier and it actually was until I hit the really small doses .All of this is a guessing game .I went up to .04 from .03 and Im going to stay here for a day or two .If it gets better then I will stay put another day or two then proceed ahead .If it doesnt get better there is no point staying and Ill just go ahead and finish it . My instincts say its no longer effective at these doses

[[ar...]]

Was trying to figure out how long I should make the liquid taper.  There was a formula/chart (maybe?) for how much to taper down if you wanted to be done in a certain amount of days, and another one for if you wanted to go by a percentage drop.  Plus it had tons of great info on how to mix and do the doses etc. I really wish I'd bookmarked it. 

 

Was it your thread?  I did a search and couldn't find anything.

  Please don't try to tie your taper to a timetable!  This has to be a "symptom-based" procedure, and you slow down or speed up based on how you feel.

 

The 80/20 rule works for me.  Although you would like to be 100%.  100% was hard for me to reach on this junk. 

[[ar...]]

Anyone else find the micro doses at the end got harder ? Im at .03 daily ativan and I got the benzo flu big time .My body aches everywhere and I have no energy whatsoever .I am trying to decide whether to hold here for awhile or just keep going ? Im thinking that maybe I am in acute due to it no longer registering in my body at this dosage .Its been a so - so ride from the beginning .Nothing to extreme as far as withdrawal symptoms but also not symptom less .I had the aching body before the ativan and was in poor health so it could be that its just "normal " .Im amazed that these benzos can mask pain so well .If it wasn't for feeling like a zombie while on them and it being so bad for the brain this stuff would be ideal for my health issues . But it is what it is and I have no interest in being a zombie for the rest of my life . Anyone else felt pretty good throughout the whole taper until the very end ? Did you just keep plugging away or jump or hold ?? Im open to any suggestions .I sure dont want to blow it at this stage of the game .Im really curious at what dose this stuff is no longer doing anything for you .Ive googled and googled it and cant find anything

 

I'm convinced that everyone does reach a point where even though they are still at some dose, it no longer has any effect.  But that point probably is different for everyone.

 

It was really pretty obvious to me that once I got down to 3mg V, I was "home free".  I had absolutely no sxs from that point on, and I jumped at .5

 

3mg V is roughly equivalent .3mg Ativan.

 

Once I hit 0.2mg I think my body saw that dose as pretty much 0.. It took a few weeks to stabalize and now I am not feeling anything from the tiny cuts on my way to 0.  I would have loved the 0 to be at 3mg like builder.  It has taken me 13.5 months to get from 3mg to 0.18mg.  Builder is right, everyone is different.

[[an...]]

When I tapered the first time, I was pretty much symptom free all the way down.  I remember I was at about 0.08 mg Ativan and all of a sudden symptoms hit me.  I finally figured out that I had made a mistake with my cuts, and once I fixed that it was a smooth ride all the way down.  I did taper down to 0.01 mg/day, but I probably could have jumped a few weeks earlier.  I was completely healed by the time I jumped.  This time is a bit different, and I have had to do many holds throughout.  I am at a very low dosage, but still experience symptoms.  Very different from the first time around.  I know this is because I was still symptomatic when I started this taper.  For my first taper, I updosed enough to where I was symptom free when I started the taper. 

 

Anne

[[Fi...]]

 

I really think if you just estimated halfway to .05ml it would be fine.  It does not have to be exact.  I think it will work out fine.  Even if you missed by .01 or .02ml you'd still be better off than what you do now.

I don't know a lot about Ora Sweet, but I know they say it should only be diluted by 2 to 1 with water.  You're talking about 10 to 1.  I'd be concerned that that would be too much.  I'd definitely research that thoroughly before I did it.

 

 

" ORA-Plus will retain its suspending properties when diluted up to 50% with water, flavoring agents, syrups or alcohol."

 

http://www.perrigo.com/files/rx/pdfs/pds173-ORA-Plus.pdf

 

Builder - Thanks for this - I guess my 10 to 1 dilution is a bit too much!  My pharmacist has been so supportive and bang on with her advice, it never occurred to me I would have to question her calculations.  Just so thankful for you folks on this site. 

[[Fi...]]

Your current liquid K is .1mg/ml and you cut .005mg by cutting .05ml.  .0025mg is exactly half of .005mg.  The easiest way to cut .0025mg is to just cut exactly half of your current cut, or .025ml.  That's getting down there on the syringe, but it will do it.  This way, no dilution is required.

 

If you want to dilute, you can mix 9ml for each 1ml of the old liquid.  But is water okay for your liquid?  I forget what's in it.

Yes, the pharmacist said it was ok to mix my compound with water - it is now mixed with ora sweet.  I don't feel I can measure accurately between those little lines on the syringe to measure in .25ml increments, so I will dilute the liquid. 

 

Now I am second guessing myself about changing things up, as it's so easy to measure in .05 increments!  One of the biggest issues is I'm not confident and knowledgeable enough about how to implement changes with this taper!  Thanks again, I always appreciate your comments and opinion.

 

I really think if you just estimated halfway to .05ml it would be fine.  It does not have to be exact.  I think it will work out fine.  Even if you missed by .01 or .02ml you'd still be better off than what you do now.

 

I don't know a lot about Ora Sweet, but I know they say it should only be diluted by 2 to 1 with water.  You're talking about 10 to 1.  I'd be concerned that that would be too much.  I'd definitely research that thoroughly before I did it.

 

Okay, hearing I don't have to be exact is a relief - fit's right in with my KISS philosophy!  I will give it a go, the pharmacy has some 1 ml syringes that are an amber color and much easier for measuring.  Thanks SG!  Finnie

 

[[ji...]]

Thank you anne I hit a few rough patches after .08 .But I was skipping ahead here and there . Bad idea ,lol. Im going to stay at .04 until I get a little more stabilized . Yesterday I was so sick I thought I was going to literally get sick and I never, ever do that .With a monster headache . If I didnt know better I would say this was my acute stage . If I would have just stayed on schedule and not rushed it I think I would have stayed virtually symptom free until the end . Anyway thanks you guys for your thoughts and input . Maybe this will help someone else in the future .Go slow ,dont rush it !!!

[[do...]]

Hi All DMT Buddies,

 

Several months ago you all so kindly helped me with a taper schedule with liquid, which I failed.

 

So I am back asking your assistance again please, however, I think that I will try the dry format this time.

 

I am still at 1/4 of 0.5 ativan tab twice daily.

 

I bought some razors so I guess that I need a scale too.  Any suggestion on which scale is best please?

 

It has taken me 4 years of tapering to get to this dose.  So I'm guessing that's pretty dang slow.

 

Thank you kindly.

doodle dog

[[Mi...]]

My doctor has prescribed clonidine (not klonopin) and low-dose lithium, which have helped me sleep and eliminate depersonalization. My psychologist suggested these. Maybe you need a benzo-savvy healthcare provider. I couldn't do this without the clonidine and lithium. Good luck,

MirandaJane

[[Pl...]]

Hi everyone,

 

    I believe I am having a kindling paradoxical reaction to kolonopin.... I am scared to death... The thing is what do you do?  I can't just stop these drugs.... Please anyone with suggestions.... I'm scared I'm not going to make it thru this....

 

I have severe neuro symptoms left over from the ativan withdrawal on top of this..... I feel it is completely hopeless.... how can I taper down from this.... I feel like I have no choice....

 

I'm going slow and feel more clarity but I am scared to death of the drug and process.... Having full blown panic attack....can't handle my physical symptoms...

[[jr...]]

Hi everyone,

 

    I believe I am having a kindling paradoxical reaction to kolonopin.... I am scared to death... The thing is what do you do?  I can't just stop these drugs.... Please anyone with suggestions.... I'm scared I'm not going to make it thru this....

 

I have severe neuro symptoms left over from the ativan withdrawal on top of this..... I feel it is completely hopeless.... how can I taper down from this.... I feel like I have no choice....

 

I'm going slow and feel more clarity but I am scared to death of the drug and process.... Having full blown panic attack....can't handle my physical symptoms...

 

 

IMO I would updose slightly and hold for a month or 2,

[[ga...]]

Hi everyone,

 

    I believe I am having a kindling paradoxical reaction to kolonopin.... I am scared to death... The thing is what do you do?  I can't just stop these drugs.... Please anyone with suggestions.... I'm scared I'm not going to make it thru this....

 

I have severe neuro symptoms left over from the ativan withdrawal on top of this..... I feel it is completely hopeless.... how can I taper down from this.... I feel like I have no choice....

 

I'm going slow and feel more clarity but I am scared to death of the drug and process.... Having full blown panic attack....can't handle my physical symptoms...

 

I've been holding for weeks and am seeing some improvement in what were intolerable symptoms. Sometimes the brain needs time to catch up and we need to hold. Didn't think it would work, but am getting more hopeful that this is the right approach for me right now. Maybe it is for you, too? Try reading on the Long Hold thread for more information about holding and whether it is right for you or not.

 

[[Be...]]

So I went ahead and started the Roxanne liquid valium solution even though I had 4 of my 1mg compounded pills left.  It's the 1mL = 1mg solution.  So last night and tonight I just drew out 1mg and squirted it into a cup of water, then downed it, refill and down again.  What I'm noticing is a very fast and very distinct hit and then I feel like I've taken a much larger dosage compared to the pills.  By that I mean I can actually feel the valium doing it's thing... where the pills I might as well have been eating a tic tac.

 

Is that just how the liquid works because it's absorbed fast and all at once?  Is it possible that the compounding pharmacy was shorting my dosage so the 1mg of liquid is like an updose?

I'm going to stick at 1mg for a week to adjust to the liquid before I start the micro-taper.  No ill effects that I can tell.... some increased burning in my butt and legs, but I'm doing a lot of sitting which is what usually triggers that.  So other than the immediate effects I seem to be fine with the liquid.

 

Well... except for the taste... OMG I have never tasted anything so horrid in my life... and I've taken unflavored oral lidocaine!!  This beats that hands down.  How can I make this stuff taste better?  The water dilution doesn't seem to do much for damping the flavor.  BLECH

[[Pl...]]

Jr and Gardner.... Thank you... I tried up dosing once but it was a disaster.... I got extremely sick.... I feel a bit better mentally reducing..... But the physical is really bad and unlivable....Outside body tremors that never went away.... Inner vibrating.... Swaying feelings....severe facial issues and so much more....( had all of this for 14 months straight)

 

after holding for about 3 and a half months after I just started I switched to liquid and waited another few weeks and started reducing only 5 percent in 30 days....

 

Very hard to know what to do....