Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

SG, I am considering rolling over the ambien into my Ativan taper like you mentioned before, and then continuing to LT taper off them together....is this something you could draw up for me?  My dose of Ativan is .646 and Ambien is .315 (6.25),  Wondering what that would look like step wise.....

 

I am also wondering what it would look like if I was able to cross both over to valium,  something I could "show" my doctor, to see if she would consider that...and that would be a great big IF for sure,  I'm thinking she will push Klonopin, which is not something I want to take....but, will cross that bridge when and if it comes to that. 

 

Would you mind letting me know how this will work?  I'm still suffering interdose wd, even after six dosings a day, and have been holding, but finding myself not improving at all....wondering, if it could be the Ambien, like you mentioned...worth a try I guess.  Thanks for your thoughts and time....

 

Generally, most people can substitute a few percent a day to cross over from a short drug to V.  If we assume that here you could replace small amounts of your dose, say 5%, which is about .05mg ativan with 1mg ambien.  I like making smaller, more frequent swaps, but it could also be done in larger chunks.  I'd sub in .05mg ativan for 1mg Ambien every few days depending on how your feel.

 

For V, your dose is .961mg Ativan so Ashton would put you at 9.61mg V.  I'd approach that the same way...~5% exchanges at a time every few days, so .05mg A for .5mg V until you reach 9.61mg V.  With both crosses, keep doses relatively even.

[[St...]]

Since I don't have any prescriber for v as of now yet., am I understanding to substitute .05 mg Ativan for 1 mg Ambien every few days, depending on my sxs. I am dosing each of the six doses at 10.7, would that make each dose 10.75?  10.70 plus .05...just checking my poor math to see if I am doing it right.

 

Now about reducing the Ambien pill, they are 6.25 mg , do I weigh it and decrease it by one mg?  How do we know what 1 mg of Ambien weighs?  The .961 will stay the same right.  and when the ambien is done, I would start to taper from .961, is that correct? 

 

I guess I need some clarification on how to reduce the actual ambien pill, we do have a scale, would I weigh 10 pills to get an average weight?  Is 1 mg of ambien, l.0?  And I would subtract that from the total weight of the pill to reduce it?  To keep track? 

Thank you!!!!

 

[[...]]

Since I don't have any prescriber for v as of now yet., am I understanding to substitute .05 mg Ativan for 1 mg Ambien every few days, depending on my sxs. I am dosing each of the six doses at 10.7, would that make each dose 10.75?  10.70 plus .05...just checking my poor math to see if I am doing it right.

 

Now about reducing the Ambien pill, they are 6.25 mg , do I weigh it and decrease it by one mg?  How do we know what 1 mg of Ambien weighs?  The .961 will stay the same right.  and when the ambien is done, I would start to taper from .961, is that correct? 

 

I guess I need some clarification on how to reduce the actual ambien pill, we do have a scale, would I weigh 10 pills to get an average weight?  Is 1 mg of ambien, l.0?  And I would subtract that from the total weight of the pill to reduce it?  To keep track? 

Thank you!!!!

 

Yes, I think using .05mg/.5mg as the swap amount would work well.  You take six doses so that would be .00833mg per dose.  So, each time you swap you'd remove 1mg Ambien and replace it by increasing all ativan doses by .00833mg.  I think your liquid is .01mg/ml strength (1mg=100ml)?  This would be and increase of .833ml for each dose.  So, on the first swap, if you are currently at 10.7ml per dose, you'd go up to 11.5ml.  Then to 12.4ml.  Then to 13.2ml, and so on until you got to 16ml per dose (16ml x 6 doses = 96ml which is .96mg).

 

Start: 10.7ml At; 6.25mg Am

Swap 1: 11.5; 5.25

Swap 2: 12.4; 4.25

Swap 3: 13.2: 3.25

Swap 4: 14.1; 2.25

Swap 5: 14.9; 1.25

Swap 6: 15.7; .25

Swap 7: 16; 0

 

Yes, weigh 10 Ambien pills to get an average weight.  Once you know that and the pill dose you'll know how much weight to drop to equal 1mg Ambien.

[[St...]]

SG, weighed 10 ambien pills,  and came up with 1.439....what next?  I divided by 10 and it came to 0.1439.  Is that right?  I weighed 1 pill and it came to 1.43.  Help, my brain isn't working.....

[[...]]

SG, weighed 10 ambien pills,  and came up with 1.439....what next?  I divided by 10 and it came to 0.1439.  Is that right?  I weighed 1 pill and it came to 1.43.  Help, my brain isn't working.....

 

That sounds right.  What was the dose of the pill?

[[St...]]

6.25 mg.....so how much do we cut off each time?

 

[[jr...]]

hello,

 

So have been on adivan for about 5 weeks only taking .5 mg. i want to start to micro taper because i am very sensitive and still have ridiculous amount of anxiety. Reading all these horror stories has not helped me at all and i want take these meds much longer    i really don't understand how to micro taper, if someone could explain it and maybe help me set up a schedule to get off the adivan with the least amount of w/d symptoms. it would be greatly appreciated thankssss

 

How long have you been dosing and how many times per day?

[[...]]

6.25 mg.....so how much do we cut off each time?

 

Okay, 6.25mg/.144g=43.4mg/g.  This means that a gram of pill powder would be 43.4mg Ambien...it's a conversion factor.  If we want to know how much 1mg of Ambien weighs we now know...

 

1mg/43.4=.023g

 

So, that is the answer...to drop 1mg ambien you reduce the pill weight by .023g.  I've added them into the table below...

 

Start: 10.7ml At; 6.25mg Am (.144g)

Swap 1: 11.5; 5.25 (.121g)

Swap 2: 12.4; 4.25 (.098g)

Swap 3: 13.2: 3.25 (.075g)

Swap 4: 14.1; 2.25 (.052g)

Swap 5: 14.9; 1.25 (.029g)

Swap 6: 15.7; .25 (.006g)

Swap 7: 16; 0

[[He...]]

hello,

 

So have been on adivan for about 5 weeks only taking .5 mg. i want to start to micro taper because i am very sensitive and still have ridiculous amount of anxiety. Reading all these horror stories has not helped me at all and i want take these meds much longer    i really don't understand how to micro taper, if someone could explain it and maybe help me set up a schedule to get off the adivan with the least amount of w/d symptoms. it would be greatly appreciated thankssss

 

How long have you been dosing and how many times per day?

i take .5 mg once in the morning for about 5 to 6 weeks

[[jr...]]

hello,

 

So have been on adivan for about 5 weeks only taking .5 mg. i want to start to micro taper because i am very sensitive and still have ridiculous amount of anxiety. Reading all these horror stories has not helped me at all and i want take these meds much longer    i really don't understand how to micro taper, if someone could explain it and maybe help me set up a schedule to get off the adivan with the least amount of w/d symptoms. it would be greatly appreciated thankssss

 

How long have you been dosing and how many times per day?

i take .5 mg once in the morning for about 5 to 6 weeks

 

I would cut a 1/4 off my pill and see how I felt. You have not been on very long and may be able to get off quickly. Do that for a week and if all goes well drop another 1/4. If side effects flare up then you will need to do a micro taper

[[Lo...]]

Hi, I am doing a taper by cutting from Zopiclone. I just want to have someone check my math and give me some advice!

 

A 7.5 mg tablet weighs 165 mg. I started at 228 mg weight and have decreased by approx 1 mg of weight each day and am now at 139 mg as of last night. I take it in divided in 2 doses. One at bedtime and smaller one when I wake in the early morning. Later I will combine but this seems to lessen daytime interdose withdrawal for now.

 

So far things are going well with only a couple of exceptions - ie once when I absentmindedly took all at bedtime and once when I had wine at dinner. In both cases I was very anxious the next day with tight muscles and nervous stomach. Sleep is pretty good most nights.

 

I made a chart projecting what weight of tablet I would like to be at in 2 week intervals with a decrease of 10% of whatever the dose is at the time. At this stage I am decreasing by 1 mg weight per night and keeping an eye on the fortnight goals. Increments will be smaller as I go down.

 

This will take a long time! I would be down to .15 of the 7.5 mg tablet by Dec 16!!! It would weigh 24.75 mg. I don't know and haven't read at what point I could jump. Maybe before then?

 

Does this math seem right? I'm wondering if I might try speeding things up although I know it best to listen to my body.

 

I may run into a problem down the road with very small amounts. Guess I will deal with that if/when the time comes.

 

Zopiclone is very bitter tasting but I could put crumbs of it in capsules. Or perhaps get a compounding pharmacist to do something for me. I really would prefer to avoid a crossover to Valium unless I have to. I prefer to deal with the devil I know.

 

Thanks for any advice!  LL

[[St...]]

SG, thank you so much for all your work today, I appreciate you so very much.  I get it now....now just have to work up the courage to do it..... 

[[...]]

SG, thank you so much for all your work today, I appreciate you so very much.  I get it now....now just have to work up the courage to do it..... 

 

You're welcome.  Be sure to start the ativan ahead of the ambien, rather than drop the ambien and wait til the next day to add the ativan, if you know what I mean.  Both drugs have such short half lives it might be that that will speed up the crossover.  IDK, crossing to ativan is unusual and I'm not familiar with it, but it does reach max blood level much quicker than V due to the short half life.  If I'm thinking about this right, this would shorten the crossover time.  But then again, maybe there's more to it.  We'll see how it goes.

[[St...]]

so, when you say the half life might affect this, are you saying there might be some interdose sxs happening?  Wondering if it would help if I split my Ambien pills through the night ? 

[[...]]

so, when you say the half life might affect this, are you saying there might be some interdose sxs happening?  Wondering if it would help if I split my Ambien pills through the night ?

 

I'd keep doing what you have been doing as far as dose times.  I was just saying that, with V, it takes forever for it to build up in the blood and that is why it can take a month or two to cross to it: you have to wait and wait for the V.  Ativan is not like that.  It operates on much shorter times.  It builds and reaches its max blood level much quicker.  It seems to me this would mean the crossover process would be shortened, which is a good thing - nothing to be alarmed about.  But I'm not sure that's all there is to it.  It almost seems too good to be true, but it might be.

[[St...]]

ok, thanks so much, you have made me feel better....let's hope it is not too good to be true,  Sure would be nice to get a break!!! 

[[li...]]

From what I understand, in a long hold its not unusual to have symptoms wax and wane, with new ones popping up, some worsening while others are getting better?  At 10 weeks I am seeing significant 75% windows for several hours a day followed by some new, strong unnerving symptoms. It's possible because im jumping through windows with both feet and trying to do a bunch of stuff and get slammed. I started microtapering very unstable and have a horrible history with benzos  so I'm not surprised it's taking a while. In fact I'm more surprised that I'm having these windows at all. I've read so many stories of people taking 3-6 months to stabilize so I know I'm not in the minority--just freaked at a new, very difficult symptom that I've never had before. Hopefully it will be short lived. Just wanted to check with you guys since I'll be living on this thread when I start my microtaper again. Have a good day.

Liza

Much love to you Stella Bee!!

[[St...]]

thanks Liza, I too am having many new sxs show up that are very scary right now.....hugs...

[[ar...]]

Hi all,

 

I am at 0.22ml and nearing the end.  Valium snuck up on me last night around 10pm.  Sore body, revved up, felt sick , dey heaves, ibs and 0 hours of sleep.  Cognitive and mood is fine.  All physical.  I am holding and contemplating ending the taper at 0.22ml.  It's been very hard in the .2's and frustrating at the same.  Not give up and head to 0?

I am just frustrated it snuck up on me this low.

 

My taper rate is .005ml per day with needed holds.

[[ed...]]

From what I understand, in a long hold its not unusual to have symptoms wax and wane, with new ones popping up, some worsening while others are getting better?  At 10 weeks I am seeing significant 75% windows for several hours a day followed by some new, strong unnerving symptoms. It's possible because im jumping through windows with both feet and trying to do a bunch of stuff and get slammed. I started microtapering very unstable and have a horrible history with benzos  so I'm not surprised it's taking a while. In fact I'm more surprised that I'm having these windows at all. I've read so many stories of people taking 3-6 months to stabilize so I know I'm not in the minority--just freaked at a new, very difficult symptom that I've never had before. Hopefully it will be short lived. Just wanted to check with you guys since I'll be living on this thread when I start my microtaper again. Have a good day.

Liza

Much love to you Stella Bee!!

 

Nothing unusual at all about new sx popping up out of nowhere, old ones disappearing, and old "friends" coming back to visit after some time away! 

 

Just keep hanging in there and practice acceptance. If you're really concerned, get your bloodwork done, but I'd venture to guess what you're dealing with is just benzo wd.

 

Good luck,

Ed

[[ed...]]

Hi all,

 

I am at 0.22ml and nearing the end.  Valium snuck up on me last night around 10pm.  Sore body, revved up, felt sick , dey heaves, ibs and 0 hours of sleep.  Cognitive and mood is fine.  All physical.  I am holding and contemplating ending the taper at 0.22ml.  It's been very hard in the .2's and frustrating at the same.  Not give up and head to 0?

 

My taper rate is .005ml per day with needed holds.

 

I don't think you're getting anything from that dose--maybe psychological. I'd just jump. I've been symptomatic for months now and I'm just going to bite the bullet at around .5ml.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Good luck,

Ed

[[ar...]]

Hi all,

 

I am at 0.22ml and nearing the end.  Valium snuck up on me last night around 10pm.  Sore body, revved up, felt sick , dey heaves, ibs and 0 hours of sleep.  Cognitive and mood is fine.  All physical.  I am holding and contemplating ending the taper at 0.22ml.  It's been very hard in the .2's and frustrating at the same.  Not give up and head to 0?

 

My taper rate is .005ml per day with needed holds.

 

I don't think you're getting anything from that dose--maybe psychological. I'd just jump. I've been symptomatic for months now and I'm just going to bite the bullet at around .5ml.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Good luck,

Ed

 

Thanks Ed.  I know it's not psychological.  Just a good old physical wave.  Thanks for your input.

[[ed...]]

Oh, I wasn't clear. Sorry. Trust me, I know that the wave isn't psychological; it's real. I mean that the .22ml dose might just be psychological as I don't imagine you're receiving much therapeutic effect from it.

 

--Ed

[[ar...]]

Oh, I wasn't clear. Sorry. Trust me, I know that the wave isn't psychological; it's real. I mean that the .22ml dose might just be psychological as I don't imagine you're receiving much therapeutic effect from it.

 

--Ed

 

Gotcha.

 

I agree I am getting nothing from it.  Mainly now just reducing the accumulated Valium.

[[Mi...]]

When I cut my V dose by .05 mg. per night I certainly notice it, so I think .22 is significant. I'm at 7 mg. and still struggling. I cut .025 per night. Every drop counts. Wish I could cut faster, but face panic and derealization when I do.

 

MirandaJane