Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[an...]]

I need help. I've been trying to taper off 4 mgs of Klonopin for a month, but have been feeling worse. Yesterday I got some liquid Klonopin from my pharmacy but I need to stabilize. I went back up to the 4 mgs but feel worse than ever and I'm terrified. I don't want to go in the hospital, especially since they'll pump me full of benzo's. another member told me that Builder or SG57 might be able to help me. Please, I'm so scared.

 

What's going on?

 

 

I don't know, I went back up and I feel like I'm dying. Someone said to go on the liquid and that you know a lot about it. Sorry, I'm a mess.

[[...]]

What's going on?

I don't know, I went back up and I feel like I'm dying. Someone said to go on the liquid and that you know a lot about it. Sorry, I'm a mess.

 

Your sig says you're also on flurazepam?  We need to know more details.  As JR said, if you just went back up it needs time.

[[an...]]

Yes, Unfortunately I'm on flurzepam for sleep. Please tell me what else you need to know. Why would I feel worse by going back up. I'm sorry, I'm so confused.

[[...]]

Yes, Unfortunately I'm on flurzepam for sleep. Please tell me what else you need to know. Why would I feel worse by going back up. I'm sorry, I'm so confused.

 

All drugs, doses.  Recent history.  How much flurazepam?  When was the last time things were tolerable?

[[an...]]

I can't find the reply from JR.

I need help. I've been trying to taper off 4 mgs of Klonopin for a month, but have been feeling worse. Yesterday I got some liquid Klonopin from my pharmacy but I need to stabilize. I went back up to the 4 mgs but feel worse than ever and I'm terrified. I don't want to go in the hospital, especially since they'll pump me full of benzo's. another member told me that Builder or SG57 might be able to help me. Please, I'm so scared.

 

 

If you went back to 4mg yesterday, you have not had time to feel the improvement . It may take a week or more. I would not do any cuts until I stabilized. You will start to feel better. A Liquid taper with micro cuts every day is the easiest way off these drugs. SG or Builder or Crash can help set it up when you get ready to cut.

 

But, why would I feel worse by going up? I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time finding the replies, I'm so messed up.

[[ga...]]

I can't find the reply from JR.

 

JR said:

 

If you went back to 4mg yesterday, you have not had time to feel the improvement . It may take a week or more. I would not do any cuts until I stabilized. You will start to feel better. A Liquid taper with micro cuts every day is the easiest way off these drugs. SG or Builder or Crash can help set it up when you get ready to cut.

[[an...]]

Yes, Unfortunately I'm on flurzepam for sleep. Please tell me what else you need to know. Why would I feel worse by going back up. I'm sorry, I'm so confused.

 

All drugs, doses.  Recent history.  How much flurazepam?  When was the last time things were tolerable?

I was on 4 mgs of K for about 10 years and in the past couple years it hasn't been working well. I have bad anxiety and depression and don't respond well to AD's.  I was on Rexulti in the beginning of the year but came off due to side effects and went through some wd. About a month ago my doctor and I decided to try tapering off the K by cutting the pill, down to 3 3/4 mgs, but I've been feeling worse and worse. I'm on 15 mgs of flurazepam for sleep. I also take melatonin and nadolol.  I hope I hope I told you what you need to know, I can't think straight.

[[an...]]

I can't find the reply from JR.

 

JR said:

 

If you went back to 4mg yesterday, you have not had time to feel the improvement . It may take a week or more. I would not do any cuts until I stabilized. You will start to feel better. A Liquid taper with micro cuts every day is the easiest way off these drugs. SG or Builder or Crash can help set it up when you get ready to cut.

Thanks, I found JR's reply. I know it will take a little time to feel some improvement, but I'm feeling worse and I don't know why. I definitely won't be making any cuts for awhile.

[[ga...]]

I was on 4 mgs of K for about 10 years and in the past couple years it hasn't been working well. I have bad anxiety and depression and don't respond well to AD's.  I was on Rexulti in the beginning of the year but came off due to side effects and went through some wd. About a month ago my doctor and I decided to try tapering off the K by cutting the pill, down to 3 3/4 mgs, but I've been feeling worse and worse. I'm on 15 mgs of flurazepam for sleep. I also take melatonin and nadolol.  I hope I hope I told you what you need to know, I can't think straight.

 

That was a HUGE cut your doctor told you to make. I'm not surprised you are feeling this bad. Very sorry, but not surprised.

 

Yes, it's hard to think straight when you are feeling this bad. You are doing fine. Hang in there. You will get through this.

 

Recovery from a big cut can be up and down and up and down. Sounds like you are in a big wave (down), but it will pass. 

 

Gard

[[an...]]

I was on 4 mgs of K for about 10 years and in the past couple years it hasn't been working well. I have bad anxiety and depression and don't respond well to AD's.  I was on Rexulti in the beginning of the year but came off due to side effects and went through some wd. About a month ago my doctor and I decided to try tapering off the K by cutting the pill, down to 3 3/4 mgs, but I've been feeling worse and worse. I'm on 15 mgs of flurazepam for sleep. I also take melatonin and nadolol.  I hope I hope I told you what you need to know, I can't think straight.

 

That was a HUGE cut your doctor told you to make. I'm not surprised you are feeling this bad. Very sorry, but not surprised.

 

Yes, it's hard to think straight when you are feeling this bad. You are doing fine. Hang in there. You will get through this.

 

Recovery from a big cut can be up and down and up and down. Sounds like you are in a big wave (down), but it will pass.

 

Gard

I didn't realize it was a huge cut, and didn't know about liquid tapering. So it's normal to feel worse when going back up from a big cut, do you know why? What if it doesn't pass, I'm afraid.

[[ga...]]

 

Try saying to yourself, "I am safe. This will pass." Over an over.

 

The wave will continue for awhile, maybe hours, maybe days. Meanwhile, this may help you from spiraling into a worse place from fear of the fear, if that makes sense.

 

I have been where you are. I have felt just as you are feeling. You are not alone in this. Our brains do heal. Your brain is trying to fix itself. It can be very painful.

 

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Will try to explain again, going back up may not be what's causing the symptoms. Symptoms come in waves (bad times) and windows (lower symptoms). It may be a coincidence that the wave came after the updose. The wave may have come anyway.

 

What the guys are saying is true. You need to stabilize. If you are at a dose now where you felt OK before, I would just stick with that dose and wait for the wave to pass. One day, one hour, one minute at a time. Just think, "What do I need to do right now?" And don't think about the next minute or the next hour. Just right now. Focus on getting through right now. That's how we all get through this during waves.

 

From you ID, I assume you have kids. How old are they? If you have young children, worry about them can add to your anxiety. Heck, my kids are in college and worry about them adds to my anxiety!

 

Have to go now. Please post again. Asking the same question again is OK.

 

Gard

[[...]]

Yes, Unfortunately I'm on flurzepam for sleep. Please tell me what else you need to know. Why would I feel worse by going back up. I'm sorry, I'm so confused.

All drugs, doses.  Recent history.  How much flurazepam?  When was the last time things were tolerable?

I was on 4 mgs of K for about 10 years and in the past couple years it hasn't been working well. I have bad anxiety and depression and don't respond well to AD's.  I was on Rexulti in the beginning of the year but came off due to side effects and went through some wd. About a month ago my doctor and I decided to try tapering off the K by cutting the pill, down to 3 3/4 mgs, but I've been feeling worse and worse. I'm on 15 mgs of flurazepam for sleep. I also take melatonin and nadolol.  I hope I hope I told you what you need to know, I can't think straight.

 

4mg K+15mg F is like ~90mg V.  F is very long acting.

 

A cut of .25mg K is not disastrous at your dose...~5-6%.  Not too bad, actually.  I'd sit tight and hold, and use the time to get on liquid and adjust.

 

When were things last tolerable?

[[an...]]

Will try to explain again, going back up may not be what's causing the symptoms. Symptoms come in waves (bad times) and windows (lower symptoms). It may be a coincidence that the wave came after the updose. The wave may have come anyway.

 

What the guys are saying is true. You need to stabilize. If you are at a dose now where you felt OK before, I would just stick with that dose and wait for the wave to pass. One day, one hour, one minute at a time. Just think, "What do I need to do right now?" And don't think about the next minute or the next hour. Just right now. Focus on getting through right now. That's how we all get through this during waves.

 

From you ID, I assume you have kids. How old are they? If you have young children, worry about them can add to your anxiety. Heck, my kids are in college and worry about them adds to my anxiety!

 

Have to go now. Please post again. Asking the same question again is OK.

 

Gard

Okay, I think I understand what you're saying. My problem is that I panic and fear that it may not go away. Also, because I'm feeling so bad I can't do anything but lay here and think. It's hard to be on the computer.

Actually, before I started my taper I wasn't feeling great at 4 mgs. I must have built up a tolerance to the K, but didn't want to keep going up on the dosage. But, I wasn't feeling anywhere near as bad as I have been since I began the taper and now the up dose.

Unfortunately Gard, my daughter and only child passed away in a car accident over 7 years ago at the age of 19. That definitely doesn't help my situation. Thanks.

[[an...]]

Yes, Unfortunately I'm on flurzepam for sleep. Please tell me what else you need to know. Why would I feel worse by going back up. I'm sorry, I'm so confused.

All drugs, doses.  Recent history.  How much flurazepam?  When was the last time things were tolerable?

I was on 4 mgs of K for about 10 years and in the past couple years it hasn't been working well. I have bad anxiety and depression and don't respond well to AD's.  I was on Rexulti in the beginning of the year but came off due to side effects and went through some wd. About a month ago my doctor and I decided to try tapering off the K by cutting the pill, down to 3 3/4 mgs, but I've been feeling worse and worse. I'm on 15 mgs of flurazepam for sleep. I also take melatonin and nadolol.  I hope I hope I told you what you need to know, I can't think straight.

 

4mg K+15mg F is like ~90mg V.  F is very long acting.

 

A cut of .25mg K is not disastrous at your dose...~5-6%.  Not too bad, actually.  I'd sit tight and hold, and use the time to get on liquid and adjust.

 

When were things last tolerable?

A couple of years ago I came off Cymbalta because it stopped working. It was the only AD that ever helped. I went through bad wd from that and honestly haven't felt good since, but not nearly as bad as I've been feeling since starting the K taper and now the up dose. I'm so tired of feeling sick, how long do you think it will be before I start feeling better?

[[...]]

4mg K+15mg F is like ~90mg V.  F is very long acting.

 

A cut of .25mg K is not disastrous at your dose...~5-6%.  Not too bad, actually.  I'd sit tight and hold, and use the time to get on liquid and adjust.

 

When were things last tolerable?

A couple of years ago I came off Cymbalta because it stopped working. It was the only AD that ever helped. I went through bad wd from that and honestly haven't felt good since, but not nearly as bad as I've been feeling since starting the K taper and now the up dose. I'm so tired of feeling sick, how long do you think it will be before I start feeling better?

 

I wish I knew, but I don't.  I think the thing to do is to work on feeling better, not tapering.  If you can do both, that's great, but improvement is the primary thing.  Cymbalta symptoms a few years ago, and I looked up the rexulti...that's an AP.  You had withdrawal from that too.  Your brain may need a rest.

 

What I'm trying to get at is how long has it been since your symptoms were tolerable?

[[ga...]]

Yes, Unfortunately I'm on flurzepam for sleep. Please tell me what else you need to know. Why would I feel worse by going back up. I'm sorry, I'm so confused.

All drugs, doses.  Recent history.  How much flurazepam?  When was the last time things were tolerable?

I was on 4 mgs of K for about 10 years and in the past couple years it hasn't been working well. I have bad anxiety and depression and don't respond well to AD's.  I was on Rexulti in the beginning of the year but came off due to side effects and went through some wd. About a month ago my doctor and I decided to try tapering off the K by cutting the pill, down to 3 3/4 mgs, but I've been feeling worse and worse. I'm on 15 mgs of flurazepam for sleep. I also take melatonin and nadolol.  I hope I hope I told you what you need to know, I can't think straight.

 

4mg K+15mg F is like ~90mg V.  F is very long acting.

 

A cut of .25mg K is not disastrous at your dose...~5-6%.  Not too bad, actually.  I'd sit tight and hold, and use the time to get on liquid and adjust.

 

When were things last tolerable?

 

And this is why I should let SG do the math! I was thinking it was 20%. I'm not even going to try to figure out how I came up with that.

 

Yes, sit tight and hold.  I'm holding myself right now.

 

Very sorry to hear about the trouble with Cymbalta and how long you have been feeling bad.   Have to agree that your brain has been through a rough time with the first w/d and now this one and probably needs a rest-and-recovery period. Sad to say this journey is a marathon. But everyone eventually gets through it if they stay the course. And sometimes the course means holding.

 

[[ga...]]

Also, AM, it breaks my heart to hear about your daughter. I was recently estranged from my son who had been living with me and helping me with my taper, and feel a tiny bit of your pain. Yes, loss of a child is a very, very tough thing to go through and does makes everything so much harder. There are no words to describe it. I wish I had something better to say than that.  :'(

 

Can you put on some peaceful music or listen to a guided meditation? Something to focus your mind on? I have been bed-ridden in the past. I put a CD on repeat. It had quiet music and nature sounds. I tried to focus my mind on that.

 

There is another member, lookingforward, who has a blog and spends a lot of time bedridden. You might want to look her up if you are able. She entertains herself with making up stories about imaginary pets and posts them on her blog. It took me a long time to realize there actually were no pets and she is in bed and alone most of the time. I think she must have a laptop in bed with her. I could never blog like she does, but I like to look and see what her imaginary critters are up to. Fiona is a sweetheart and her critter memes are very funny. Maybe that sort of distraction would help. 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=113238.msg2077081;topicseen#new

 

Sorry if these are not helpful ideas. I so feel for you. I have been there and I know how hard it is. 

 

Gard

[[an...]]

4mg K+15mg F is like ~90mg V.  F is very long acting.

 

A cut of .25mg K is not disastrous at your dose...~5-6%.  Not too bad, actually.  I'd sit tight and hold, and use the time to get on liquid and adjust.

 

When were things last tolerable?

A couple of years ago I came off Cymbalta because it stopped working. It was the only AD that ever helped. I went through bad wd from that and honestly haven't felt good since, but not nearly as bad as I've been feeling since starting the K taper and now the up dose. I'm so tired of feeling sick, how long do you think it will be before I start feeling better?

 

I wish I knew, but I don't.  I think the thing to do is to work on feeling better, not tapering.  If you can do both, that's great, but improvement is the primary thing.  Cymbalta symptoms a few years ago, and I looked up the rexulti...that's an AP.  You had withdrawal from that too.  Your brain may need a rest.

 

What I'm trying to get at is how long has it been since your symptoms were tolerable?

It's hard to answer that because like I said I haven't felt right for the past couple years since coming off Cymbalta, but I've had some decent periods. I would say a couple months ago I was able to get out and function fairly decently.

[Guest [ch...]]

anxietymom, glad you found your way to this thread. I think you will stabilize soon at 4mgK. When you're in an anxiety wave it seems like it'll never get better, but it will. I've been there. It does get better. I think once you stabilize, daily microtaper is the way to go. You are in good hands with SG57 helping you.

 

Love,

 

Chessplayer

[[...]]

 

I wish I knew, but I don't.  I think the thing to do is to work on feeling better, not tapering.  If you can do both, that's great, but improvement is the primary thing.  Cymbalta symptoms a few years ago, and I looked up the rexulti...that's an AP.  You had withdrawal from that too.  Your brain may need a rest.

 

What I'm trying to get at is how long has it been since your symptoms were tolerable?

 

It's hard to answer that because like I said I haven't felt right for the past couple years since coming off Cymbalta, but I've had some decent periods. I would say a couple months ago I was able to get out and function fairly decently.

 

It sounds to me like you need a break.  I'd spread the dose evenly and sit tight.  Get on liquids too.  Give it as much time as it needs.

[[an...]]

anxietymom, glad you found your way to this thread. I think you will stabilize soon at 4mgK. When you're in an anxiety wave it seems like it'll never get better, but it will. I've been there. It does get better. I think once you stabilize, daily microtaper is the way to go. You are in good hands with SG57 helping you.

 

Love,

 

Chessplayer

Chessplayer, I can't believe this is happening. I didn't expect to feel better for at least a few days, but by going back up to 4 mgs I feel worse than when I first started tapering. I'm so scared.

Love,

anxietymom

[[an...]]

 

I wish I knew, but I don't.  I think the thing to do is to work on feeling better, not tapering.  If you can do both, that's great, but improvement is the primary thing.  Cymbalta symptoms a few years ago, and I looked up the rexulti...that's an AP.  You had withdrawal from that too.  Your brain may need a rest.

 

What I'm trying to get at is how long has it been since your symptoms were tolerable?

 

It's hard to answer that because like I said I haven't felt right for the past couple years since coming off Cymbalta, but I've had some decent periods. I would say a couple months ago I was able to get out and function fairly decently.

 

It sounds to me like you need a break.  I'd spread the dose evenly and sit tight.  Get on liquids too.  Give it as much time as it needs.

SG, do you think it would be a good idea to go back down to the 3 3/4 mgs of K, or should I stay at 4. I feel horrible, worse than when I began my K taper.

[[...]]

 

It sounds to me like you need a break.  I'd spread the dose evenly and sit tight.  Get on liquids too.  Give it as much time as it needs.

 

SG, do you think it would be a good idea to go back down to the 3 3/4 mgs of K, or should I stay at 4. I feel horrible, worse than when I began my K taper.

 

I'm wondering if what you feel is actually the cut lagging behind.  I'd sit tight and give it time if it were me.

[[ar...]]

I'll be holding a bit at 0.28mg Diazepam.  Having minor adrenaline surges at 4am the last few days.  The intensity peaked on Wednesday and was very minor this morning.  I am also getting an increase in muscle spasms, teeth shocks and pin feelings on my skin.  The good news is the muscle tightness on my upper face and forehead is getting better and some days it's not tight at all.  Also I feel fine going to public places and being around  a lot of people.  I am getting out more without hesitation.  My CNS still feels fragile so I have to take it slow.