Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[my...]]

Hi SG,

It's still evening for me but trust you will see this in the morning or sometime soon.. 

 

You had suggested that in light of my resistance to MT but my sometimes still tough sxs with my current c/h pattern that I reduce 2.5% every 5 days rather than 5% every 10.  I will live with the 5% cut I made this past Weds (hard sxs this time...not sure why..don't ask..right?  The previous cut was pretty easy...) but I may decide to try the smaller, more frequent cuts the next time.

 

Could you explain again, why you believe it will be easier on my CNS?  I guess the same reasoning applies as the MT reasoning but for me, it may be a good compromise and allow me to adjust the time period depending on sxs.

 

One reason I ask is that we have travel coming up soon (next week for which I will hold until we return) and again in May.  We are resuming certain things in our lives - even though I am many months away from completing this taper project - but I need and want to feel reasonably well so that we both can enjoy them.

 

I know the travel will prolong my taper - but it's either delay the taper a week here or there or delay life....put that way the decision was easier.

 

So...A brief refresher???

 

Thanks, SG. 

Mana

[[...]]

Hi SG,

It's still evening for me but trust you will see this in the morning or sometime soon.. 

 

You had suggested that in light of my resistance to MT but my sometimes still tough sxs with my current c/h pattern that I reduce 2.5% every 5 days rather than 5% every 10.  I will live with the 5% cut I made this past Weds (hard sxs this time...not sure why..don't ask..right?  The previous cut was pretty easy...) but I may decide to try the smaller, more frequent cuts the next time.

 

Could you explain again, why you believe it will be easier on my CNS?  I guess the same reasoning applies as the MT reasoning but for me, it may be a good compromise and allow me to adjust the time period depending on sxs.

 

One reason I ask is that we have travel coming up soon (next week for which I will hold until we return) and again in May.  We are resuming certain things in our lives - even though I am many months away from completing this taper project - but I need and want to feel reasonably well so that we both can enjoy them.

 

I know the travel will prolong my taper - but it's either delay the taper a week here or there or delay life....put that way the decision was easier.

 

So...A brief refresher???

 

Thanks, SG. 

Mana

 

Yes, it's the same reasoning.  The body does a certain amount of healing in one day.  MT tries to match that and only remove that much benzo (or less) for that day only, so you recover from the cut the same day you made it.  It does not remove the drug ahead of schedule like cut and hold does.  This allows the maximum amount of drug to remain in your body to help cover symptoms, and this is important with psych drugs since we know small shortages can cause big problems.  So, I think it is best to keep shortages to a minimum.

 

When you switch from a 5% cut to a 2.5% cut, the 2.5% you did not remove will remain in your body for five days to help curtail your symptoms.  This is not optimal, but it is a big step toward the ramp path.

 

Another way to look at it is to track what portion of the cut amount remains in your body for the 10-day period of the hold.  For a 5% cut the answer is obviously zero since you took it all out at the beginning.  For a 2.5% cut the answer is 25% since you spent five days only 50% short and five days with none.  For a 10-day MT the answer is 45%.  That's near optimal.  That's nearly the best you can do.  Some examples...

 

10-day Cut Pattern                          Amount to Help with Symptoms

one 5% cut/10 day hold                                0%

two 2.5% cuts/5 day holds                          25%

Five 1% cuts/2 day holds                            40%

Ten .5% cuts/1 day hold (aka MT)              45%

 

The bigger the number on the right, the more help you get from the drug, and MT is the extreme of this.  It is the (practical) limit.*  It is very close to the ramp path (which would be 50%).  Also note that the biggest gain comes initially when going from one big cut to two half cuts (a 25% increase in one swoop).  There is a much smaller difference between MT and a two-day or even a three-day hold pattern.

 

The number on the right is why I encourage you and everyone to cut smaller.  It pays to cut small!!  I think it is important to keep holds under a few days at most, but what's not to like about taking full advantage of MT?

 

*Actually, it is possible to do better than MT by cutting by dose instead of day.  For example, if you dose 3x a day there is an opportunity to make three cuts that day or 90 cuts a month.  MT has a limit of 30 cuts a month.  But all this extra cutting would only amount to a few percent improvement in the number on the right.  It can be done, but there is not much return for the extra effort.

 

I seem to have written a book.  Sorry.  I got carried away.

[[my...]]

But I LIKED reading this book, SG!  Next cut (after we return from 1st trip) on 4/23..I will begin my 2.5 % every 5 day journey... if that eases things up for me, I will gradually move toward a MT...

(btw...today - day 5 -  feel OK, slept well, etc. Think the sxs just hit really early this cut  ) we'll see...oh, still haven't watched those videos..will today...filled the Rx for Zoloft but not planning to take it.  The depression lifted...definitely w/d. Thanks again for your thoughts....and many others who posted in agreement with you. 

 

I'm going to print this post, though SG!  Oops..I mean, publish it. 

 

Thanks so much.  :smitten: Hope today goes well for you.

Mana

[[in...]]

r migranes a part of w/d.........

[[bu...]]

r migranes a part of w/d.........

 

Often they are.  Some folks have found beta blockers (propranolol, etc) are helpful.

[[Ki...]]

Migraines can even be a part of crossing over, even while staying at the same total dose. I imagine any chemical change in your brain can trigger that- and especially these drugs- be it a change in dose or type.

[[mo...]]

r migranes a part of w/d.........

 

In my experience migraines can be a w/d sx. I have seizure migraines, a disorder that some studies suggest may be related to GABA mediation issues. My migraine sxs are always worse during w/d so I have been going very slowly, which made a big difference for me. Other things that I think have helped with the w/d related headaches are ginger, CBD (hemp) oil, Co-enzyme Q10, riboflavin, gentle exercises, warm baths and adequate sleep. Hope you feel better soon!

[[my...]]

This was answered weeks ago but I can't find it on the thread.    It's a simple one  : 

 

What gram amount = a 15% (approx.) reduction per month using my current total daily dose of .39 mg.?  We've discussed the percentages falling apart as we get lower, and having to insert more holds.  But for now?  I believe it was .001 g/daily reduction for 6 days with one hold per week (4 holds per month). But maybe that was @ .5 mg total daily dose so perhaps there has to be an extra hold now.  ??

 

Many thanks 

[[bu...]]

This was answered weeks ago but I can't find it on the thread.    It's a simple one  : 

 

What gram amount = a 15% (approx.) reduction per month using my current total daily dose of .39 mg.? 

 

Many thanks 

  Yes, its a simple one.

 

15% of .39 is .0058.

 

Just multiply .39 X .015.

[[pe...]]

 

 

How can i safely get my doses even. Im so CNS sensitised. I've been cutting from evening pill.

 

I feel okish in the evening mentally apart from the horrendous nerve pain in my face and teeth ...mornings im paralysed with suicidal depression up to early evening.

 

 

[[my...]]

Thanks builder, but maybe I didn't put the question clearly...  Even I can multiply 15%...

 

What I meant was, in order to achieve  a 15% reduction over a month's time, how much should I reduce on a daily basis, in grams, doing a dry cut MT - beginning at my current amount of .39 mg?

 

For example, I had thought it was around .001 g (less) per day with a hold every 6 days or so.  But that may not be right at my current dose.

 

Thanks again!

 

Mana

 

[[my...]]

Hi pete27,

 

If you are in as much psychic and physical pain as you say, I think you need to do something very different than what you are doing.  No one should have to suffer that much.  It's the hardest thing I've ever done, no question, but the pain, while bad at times, abates and is often gone completely.  It has been a long, difficult slog with some of the same features as you write about but if I felt that way continuously I would look into other options.

 

You show that you are using Valium to help you in the evenings.  Maybe you could consider crossing over to Valium and then hold for quite a while until you feel better, stable.  If I were you, I would definitely NOT reduce any more until I felt better. 

 

Best of luck.

 

Mana

[[in...]]

Migraines can even be a part of crossing over, even while staying at the same total dose. I imagine any chemical change in your brain can trigger that- and especially these drugs- be it a change in dose or type.

r migranes a part of w/d.........

 

Often they are.  Some folks have found beta blockers (propranolol, etc) are helpful.

 

thanks, sigh 

[[bu...]]

Thanks builder, but maybe I didn't put the question clearly...  Even I can multiply 15%...

 

What I meant was, in order to achieve  a 15% reduction over a month's time, how much should I reduce on a daily basis, in grams, doing a dry cut MT - beginning at my current amount of .39 mg?

 

For example, I had thought it was around .001 g (less) per day with a hold every 6 days or so.  But that may not be right at my current dose.

 

Thanks again!

 

Mana

 

Then you divide that by 30 (days)

 

.39 X .015 = .00585

 

.00585 / 30 = .000195  (round up to .0002)

 

 

[[St...]]

SG,  I am considering strongly trying to convince my doctor to let me cross over to Valium, I have a friend that is drawing up a plan to help my cross over, but she needs to know the amount of Mg in each of my five doses....I have been holding, and adding doses, and nothing is helping me at all, I think the Ativan is just too hard to taper from for me....

 

I am at 59.7 total daily dose of Ativan  liquid tapering

My five doses are 11.94ml each

 

Could you help me with this please?  Thanks so much....I need to do something.....

 

[[...]]

SG,  I am considering strongly trying to convince my doctor to let me cross over to Valium, I have a friend that is drawing up a plan to help my cross over, but she needs to know the amount of Mg in each of my five doses....I have been holding, and adding doses, and nothing is helping me at all, I think the Ativan is just too hard to taper from for me....

 

I am at 59.7 total daily dose of Ativan  liquid tapering

My five doses are 11.94ml each

 

Could you help me with this please?  Thanks so much....I need to do something.....

 

How much ativan is in the liquid?

[[St...]]

We put two 0.5 mg Ativan tablets into 1ml vodka and 99 ml water, then draw out 11.94 ml for a dose.  My total daily dose is 59.7.  we divided that by 5 and it comes out to 11.94ml. 

 

[[...]]

We put two 0.5 mg Ativan tablets into 1ml vodka and 99 ml water, then draw out 11.94 ml for a dose.  My total daily dose is 59.7.  we divided that by 5 and it comes out to 11.94ml.

 

Okay, so that is 1mg=100ml which is .01mg/ml.  11.94ml is .1194mg...just move the decimal place over two.  Your total daily dose is .597mg...same thing - move the decimal place over two.

[[St...]]

Thank you so very much!!!!!!

[Guest [Jo...]]

Hi Everyone, Everyday is a battle for me because of my head/ear ache it got worse when i got the sore throat, i have pain infront of my ear where the joint was and on the back of my ear down to my neck, and the buzzing and thugging sound so discomfort, finish the 7 day antibiotic but sore throat and blcked nose still there.  i'm waiting till it subside, it could be the withdrawal symptoms.  Dont know if anyone experiencing this, I dont have shaky feeling anyway, just the head, ear, sound problem it cause less sleep for me.

 

hope you're doing all okay,

 

MCM

Could the antibiotic be causing the problems?

I know antibiotics react bad but I don't know which ones.

[[bu...]]

Hi Everyone, Everyday is a battle for me because of my head/ear ache it got worse when i got the sore throat, i have pain infront of my ear where the joint was and on the back of my ear down to my neck, and the buzzing and thugging sound so discomfort, finish the 7 day antibiotic but sore throat and blcked nose still there.  i'm waiting till it subside, it could be the withdrawal symptoms.  Dont know if anyone experiencing this, I dont have shaky feeling anyway, just the head, ear, sound problem it cause less sleep for me.

 

hope you're doing all okay,

 

MCM

Could the antibiotic be causing the problems?

I know antibiotics react bad but I don't know which ones.

 

The only ABs that cause problems with benzos are fluorouquinolones ("cipro")

[Guest [Jo...]]

Hi Everyone, Everyday is a battle for me because of my head/ear ache it got worse when i got the sore throat, i have pain infront of my ear where the joint was and on the back of my ear down to my neck, and the buzzing and thugging sound so discomfort, finish the 7 day antibiotic but sore throat and blcked nose still there.  i'm waiting till it subside, it could be the withdrawal symptoms.  Dont know if anyone experiencing this, I dont have shaky feeling anyway, just the head, ear, sound problem it cause less sleep for me.

 

hope you're doing all okay,

 

MCM

Could the antibiotic be causing the problems?

I know antibiotics react bad but I don't know which ones.

 

The only ABs that cause problems with benzos are fluorouquinolones ("cipro")

cheers, what is that prescribed for. I have had loads of infections. Ingrown toenails, bronchitis, water infection. The water infection went with raw apple cider vinegar and plenty of fluids, hopefully the bronchitis is on its way out with turmeric and ACV and as for the toenails they dont hurt that much, and I always have the beloved salt water if tooth abscesses appear as ive had a few of them. I must attract infections somehow.

[[bu...]]

 

cheers, what is that prescribed for. I have had loads of infections. Ingrown toenails, bronchitis, water infection. The water infection went with raw apple cider vinegar and plenty of fluids, hopefully the bronchitis is on its way out with turmeric and ACV and as for the toenails they dont hurt that much, and I always have the beloved salt water if tooth abscesses appear as ive had a few of them. I must attract infections somehow.

  Unfortunately, quinolones are prescribed for a wide variety of infections, but probably most commonly for UTIs.

[[...]]

Hi Everyone, Everyday is a battle for me because of my head/ear ache it got worse when i got the sore throat, i have pain infront of my ear where the joint was and on the back of my ear down to my neck, and the buzzing and thugging sound so discomfort, finish the 7 day antibiotic but sore throat and blcked nose still there.  i'm waiting till it subside, it could be the withdrawal symptoms.  Dont know if anyone experiencing this, I dont have shaky feeling anyway, just the head, ear, sound problem it cause less sleep for me.

 

hope you're doing all okay,

Could the antibiotic be causing the problems?

I know antibiotics react bad but I don't know which ones.

 

The only ABs that cause problems with benzos are fluorouquinolones ("cipro")

 

MCM

 

Thanks Build, you've never miss a question that we posted, thanks for your help!!  i feel better now went to see my Doc yesterday and she said its virus thats why antibiotic didn't help, my sore throat is better now, I believed the rest are all w/d symptoms. 

 

thanks again, and regards to everyone here.

MCM

[[St...]]

Until I can get everything figured out with maybe crossing over to valium, I am going to switch to PG in my LT, do I change all five of my doses at once, or just one dose at a time, like one a day maybe?  I know they are different, alcohol is a solution and PG is a suspension, will my body see this as different?  I'm so sensitive to changes, but tried one dose of PG last night and it sat better in my stomach than the alcohol mixture.