Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Thanks SG, And Builder for your immediate reply,  such a big help for me and everyone here you're helping everyday.  I wil continue my taper and hope to finish soon my taper and joining you here for helping others.  God Bless everyone!!

 

thanks, MCM

[[St...]]

sigh....here I am again....I have been holding for four weeks on the LT, at 0.060, and have changed my doses from 4 times a day to 5 times a day two weeks ago, still really bad sxs of interdose,  I am tapering Ativan and wonder if I could be in tolerance withdrawal because of holding so long, or is it ok to hold this long or longer on Ativan.  Just don't know how long to wait to taper again, how to know if I am stable enough, I seem to have a pattern of one day better, and then the next day so much worse, and this just keeps repeating, that is why it is hard to know....is this a common pattern?  I'm willing to keep holding, just need to understand if I am in tolerance withdrawal or what...so confusing!  Thanks

 

[[Ul...]]

Hey SG and Builder,

 

I haven't been on the site a whole lot lately. I had major surgery on my back several years back and did some real damage to it again about 9 days ago. Been on my back or stomach from then until now while waiting until April 12 to get to the orthopedic doc. Been down this path before and know it all too well, so probably looking at surgery again based on everything that's going on. I looked briefly at some of the posts over the chunk of days and saw some conversation about PG. I've got a crazy long ways to go with this K taper, but I was wondering if I should use PG as a solvent. I've been using vodka to this point. As you know, I've had to hold for months at a time due to so many other problems related to the long-term benzo use. Is PG that much "better"? I have a hard time cutting whenever I do cut, so I was wondering if PG may be helpful. I'd appreciate any guidance.

 

Oh...obviously, I'd like to be at an "even" number (that comes in pill form) of milligrams when I go the hospital to have surgery (like, 1.50mg or 1.25mg). I'd hardly expect the nurses to mix up my liquid doses each day   Any thoughts on what people do when something comes up and they have to go into the hospital for a procedure, but they're at a weird dose, such as 1.39mg, at the time?

 

Hang tough everybody!

 

Jeff

[[St...]]

OK, once you have mixed a batch of dilute liquid, all you really  need to do is draw out what ever you need to fill your dose each day.

 

For example, it your at 5mg and want to cut .05mg per day:

 

day 1    4mg tablets    10ml (1mg) liquid    total 5mg

day 2    4mg tablets    9.5ml (.95mg) liquid    total 4.95mg

day 3    4mg                9.0ml (.9mg)            total 4.9

day 4    4mg                8.5ml (.85mg)          total 4.85 etc

 

You can choose whatever schedule/taper rate you want.  Take most of your dose "whole numbers") by tablet, then the rest of your dose from liquid, cutting, and reducing daily by whatever amount you choose.

 

Or, you could take the whole dose from liquid, but most folks choose to do a combo of tablets and liquid.

 

Currently I'm on 100% liquid. Given that I'm in a new country I think it would confuse doctors (and maybe pharmacists) if I asked for a split prescription. I was thinking about this last night and I came to this. Let me know if this makes sense.

 

- Mix 90ML of water with 10ML of liquid Valium. I now, effectively, have 10ML of diluted Valium

- Currently I take 2ML (2MG) in the evening and 1.56 ML (MG) in the morning

- So I could split this 100ML into bottles of 20ML each, which is basically 2MG per bottle

- I keep taking one of the 20ML bottles at night, which is equivalent to my current 2ML / 2MG

- In the morning I take the proper amount diluted. Currently I'm reducing undiluted by 0.02 ML. Diluted it would be 2ML.

- So on day 1 of 15.4ML (diluted) I would throw out 4.6ML of the 20ML bottle in the morning, thus taking 1.54MG undiluted, effectively

 

Am I thinking about that correctly?

[[Ja...]]

Builder--

Sorry to repeat these questions

It looks like you started at 9mg? Had you cold turkey or fast tapered first? Was your full taper about two years? And was it fairly symptom free?

Wondering what the right schedule for me is.. I am currently doing 500 days for 5 mg but wondering if that is too slow considering the damage I have already done ( steroid shot damaged my Cns last year then cold turkey and fast taper bc I was only using .5 A 3 times per week for 3 mos but had diazepam usage for 20 years maybe once a week or once every two weeks and in my twenties for a full year and just stopped w no w/d.)

Thanks

[[bu...]]

OK, once you have mixed a batch of dilute liquid, all you really  need to do is draw out what ever you need to fill your dose each day.

 

For example, it your at 5mg and want to cut .05mg per day:

 

day 1    4mg tablets    10ml (1mg) liquid    total 5mg

day 2    4mg tablets    9.5ml (.95mg) liquid    total 4.95mg

day 3    4mg                9.0ml (.9mg)            total 4.9

day 4    4mg                8.5ml (.85mg)          total 4.85 etc

 

You can choose whatever schedule/taper rate you want.  Take most of your dose "whole numbers") by tablet, then the rest of your dose from liquid, cutting, and reducing daily by whatever amount you choose.

 

Or, you could take the whole dose from liquid, but most folks choose to do a combo of tablets and liquid.

 

Currently I'm on 100% liquid. Given that I'm in a new country I think it would confuse doctors (and maybe pharmacists) if I asked for a split prescription. I was thinking about this last night and I came to this. Let me know if this makes sense.

 

- Mix 90ML of water with 10ML of liquid Valium. I now, effectively, have 10ML of diluted Valium

- Currently I take 2ML (2MG) in the evening and 1.56 ML (MG) in the morning

- So I could split this 100ML into bottles of 20ML each, which is basically 2MG per bottle

- I keep taking one of the 20ML bottles at night, which is equivalent to my current 2ML / 2MG

- In the morning I take the proper amount diluted. Currently I'm reducing undiluted by 0.02 ML. Diluted it would be 2ML.

- So on day 1 of 15.4ML (diluted) I would throw out 4.6ML of the 20ML bottle in the morning, thus taking 1.54MG undiluted, effectively

 

Am I thinking about that correctly?

You don't need to "throw out"anything.

 

If you want to take a 2mg dose and a 1.54mg dose, then take 20 mls and 15.4ml.

 

You don't need to make up a bunch of 20ml/2mg seperate batches.  Just make your 100ml10mg (.1mg=1ml) batch and store it in a container with a tight sealing lid.

 

Then just draw out what you need for each dose.  As noted, a 2mg dose + a 1.54mg dose will be 20ml (2mg) and 15.4ml (1.54mg). 

 

And yes, all liquid is just fine if that's what you  choose, or feel you need to do.  FWIW, I did all liquid from 3mg down and it was just fine.

 

 

[[bu...]]

Builder--

Sorry to repeat these questions

It looks like you started at 9mg? Had you cold turkey or fast tapered first? Was your full taper about two years? And was it fairly symptom free?

Wondering what the right schedule for me is.. I am currently doing 500 days for 5 mg but wondering if that is too slow considering the damage I have already done ( steroid shot damaged my Cns last year then cold turkey and fast taper bc I was only using .5 A 3 times per week for 3 mos but had diazepam usage for 20 years maybe once a week or once every two weeks and in my twenties for a full year and just stopped w no w/d.)

Thanks

  My peak diazepam dose was 15mg.  I took that for about 3 months, then started a C&H taper-.5mg every 2 weeks.  That got to be intolerable when I got down to 9, so I held at 9 for several years.

 

So when I learned about liquid microtaper, I started another taper from 9mg.  Except for a bump at 3,5mg, my microtaper was pretty much symptom-free.  Occasional sleep issues, mild headaches, etc, but no real issues. 

 

Yes my taper from 9mg took 2 years, but I did several holds of about 30 days so I could travel without worrying about tapering and liquid, etc.  And since my taper was almost symptom-free, I probably could have gone faster.  But comfort was more important than speed.

[[St...]]

OK, once you have mixed a batch of dilute liquid, all you really  need to do is draw out what ever you need to fill your dose each day.

 

For example, it your at 5mg and want to cut .05mg per day:

 

day 1    4mg tablets    10ml (1mg) liquid    total 5mg

day 2    4mg tablets    9.5ml (.95mg) liquid    total 4.95mg

day 3    4mg                9.0ml (.9mg)            total 4.9

day 4    4mg                8.5ml (.85mg)          total 4.85 etc

 

You can choose whatever schedule/taper rate you want.  Take most of your dose "whole numbers") by tablet, then the rest of your dose from liquid, cutting, and reducing daily by whatever amount you choose.

 

Or, you could take the whole dose from liquid, but most folks choose to do a combo of tablets and liquid.

 

Currently I'm on 100% liquid. Given that I'm in a new country I think it would confuse doctors (and maybe pharmacists) if I asked for a split prescription. I was thinking about this last night and I came to this. Let me know if this makes sense.

 

- Mix 90ML of water with 10ML of liquid Valium. I now, effectively, have 10ML of diluted Valium

- Currently I take 2ML (2MG) in the evening and 1.56 ML (MG) in the morning

- So I could split this 100ML into bottles of 20ML each, which is basically 2MG per bottle

- I keep taking one of the 20ML bottles at night, which is equivalent to my current 2ML / 2MG

- In the morning I take the proper amount diluted. Currently I'm reducing undiluted by 0.02 ML. Diluted it would be 2ML.

- So on day 1 of 15.4ML (diluted) I would throw out 4.6ML of the 20ML bottle in the morning, thus taking 1.54MG undiluted, effectively

 

Am I thinking about that correctly?

You don't need to "throw out"anything.

 

If you want to take a 2mg dose and a 1.54mg dose, then take 20 mls and 15.4ml.

 

You don't need to make up a bunch of 20ml/2mg seperate batches.  Just make your 100ml10mg (.1mg=1ml) batch and store it in a container with a tight sealing lid.

 

Then just draw out what you need for each dose.  As noted, a 2mg dose + a 1.54mg dose will be 20ml (2mg) and 15.4ml (1.54mg). 

 

And yes, all liquid is just fine if that's what you  choose, or feel you need to do.  FWIW, I did all liquid from 3mg down and it was just fine.

 

Oh, I know I don't literally need to throw it out. I might just out it back in the mixed jar. I think creating those 20ML bottles might be easier for me so I can keep it straight in my head. Sounds like I pretty much have it. So about when I reduce from 1.54 to 1.52? It's a reduction of 15.4ml diluted to 15.2ml diluted?

[[...]]

Builder, SG and all BB, happy Easter to all.  In few days I will be on 2mg and decided to go for one dose in the evening as Builder and SG suggested when I asked for an opinion.  I used to take Rx liquid in my am dose before and tablet 2mg pm. Now I tapered off my morning dose that is my Rx liquid Diaz.  In your opinion can I use Rx liquid Diaz 1mg to MT and taking together with 1mg tablet.  One dose only in the Evening at the same time. Is there any side effect is anyone have idea or tried it before. Please help.  Thanks, mcm

That will work just fine.

good morning Builder and SG, this is my question the other day, I just want to clarify.  My Diazepam LIquid is made by Actavis oral solution BP 2mg/5ml=I was using for my MT tapering and my diazepam tablet is made by Clonmel, So its not the same brand.  As I go down to 2 mg I will be using both at the same time 1mg from liquid or solution and 1mg from tablet one dose only.  is this possible.

 

thanks, MCM

[[Re...]]

Hello. I am doing the daily microtaper and it works well. I am taking about 8 doses a day (short half life of substance). That helped immensely.

 

But i am waking up in Withdrawal at least 2 times a night.

 

Before microtapering it has been worse (all time all body shaking and more)

 

sorry for posting that much.

 

 

[[...]]

sigh....here I am again....I have been holding for four weeks on the LT, at 0.060, and have changed my doses from 4 times a day to 5 times a day two weeks ago, still really bad sxs of interdose,  I am tapering Ativan and wonder if I could be in tolerance withdrawal because of holding so long, or is it ok to hold this long or longer on Ativan.  Just don't know how long to wait to taper again, how to know if I am stable enough, I seem to have a pattern of one day better, and then the next day so much worse, and this just keeps repeating, that is why it is hard to know....is this a common pattern?  I'm willing to keep holding, just need to understand if I am in tolerance withdrawal or what...so confusing!  Thanks

 

I would hold until you feel ready to taper.  If you have interdose symptoms dosing 5x, go to more doses or cross to a longer-acting drug.

[[...]]

Hey SG and Builder,

 

I haven't been on the site a whole lot lately. I had major surgery on my back several years back and did some real damage to it again about 9 days ago. Been on my back or stomach from then until now while waiting until April 12 to get to the orthopedic doc. Been down this path before and know it all too well, so probably looking at surgery again based on everything that's going on. I looked briefly at some of the posts over the chunk of days and saw some conversation about PG. I've got a crazy long ways to go with this K taper, but I was wondering if I should use PG as a solvent. I've been using vodka to this point. As you know, I've had to hold for months at a time due to so many other problems related to the long-term benzo use. Is PG that much "better"? I have a hard time cutting whenever I do cut, so I was wondering if PG may be helpful. I'd appreciate any guidance.

 

Oh...obviously, I'd like to be at an "even" number (that comes in pill form) of milligrams when I go the hospital to have surgery (like, 1.50mg or 1.25mg). I'd hardly expect the nurses to mix up my liquid doses each day   Any thoughts on what people do when something comes up and they have to go into the hospital for a procedure, but they're at a weird dose, such as 1.39mg, at the time?

 

Hang tough everybody!

 

Jeff

 

PG is no better or worse than alcohol.  It is just another option.  They both have pros and cons and both get the job done.

[[...]]

good morning Builder and SG, this is my question the other day, I just want to clarify.  My Diazepam LIquid is made by Actavis oral solution BP 2mg/5ml=I was using for my MT tapering and my diazepam tablet is made by Clonmel, So its not the same brand.  As I go down to 2 mg I will be using both at the same time 1mg from liquid or solution and 1mg from tablet one dose only.  is this possible.

 

thanks, MCM

 

That should be fine.

[[...]]

Hello. I am doing the daily microtaper and it works well. I am taking about 8 doses a day (short half life of substance). That helped immensely.

 

But i am waking up in Withdrawal at least 2 times a night.

 

Before microtapering it has been worse (all time all body shaking and more)

 

sorry for posting that much.

 

Dosing even more frequently is the only way to combat interdose symptoms.  Since you are already at eight a day I'd consider crossing to a longer acting benzo.

[[bu...]]

 

good morning Builder and SG, this is my question the other day, I just want to clarify.  My Diazepam LIquid is made by Actavis oral solution BP 2mg/5ml=I was using for my MT tapering and my diazepam tablet is made by Clonmel, So its not the same brand.  As I go down to 2 mg I will be using both at the same time 1mg from liquid or solution and 1mg from tablet one dose only.  is this possible.

 

thanks, MCM

 

That will work just fine.  Here in the US, there is only  one mfgr of liquid V, (Roxane) and they don't make tablets, so no one is ever taking the same brand of tablets and liquid. 

 

Its the same med!!!

 

You're overthinking this...quit worrying. :

[[...]]

Thank you very much Builder and SG,  its better to ask the experts  you and SG, DP I would say and all the rest to many to mention.

 

have a good day.

MCM

[[bu...]]

 

 

Oh, I know I don't literally need to throw it out. I might just out it back in the mixed jar. I think creating those 20ML bottles might be easier for me so I can keep it straight in my head. Sounds like I pretty much have it.

 

 

If that's what works for you, it will be just fine.

 

So about when I reduce from 1.54 to 1.52? It's a reduction of 15.4ml diluted to 15.2ml diluted?

 

That's correct.

[[ga...]]

Hey SG and Builder,

 

I haven't been on the site a whole lot lately. I had major surgery on my back several years back and did some real damage to it again about 9 days ago. Been on my back or stomach from then until now while waiting until April 12 to get to the orthopedic doc. Been down this path before and know it all too well, so probably looking at surgery again based on everything that's going on. I looked briefly at some of the posts over the chunk of days and saw some conversation about PG. I've got a crazy long ways to go with this K taper, but I was wondering if I should use PG as a solvent. I've been using vodka to this point. As you know, I've had to hold for months at a time due to so many other problems related to the long-term benzo use. Is PG that much "better"? I have a hard time cutting whenever I do cut, so I was wondering if PG may be helpful. I'd appreciate any guidance.

 

Oh...obviously, I'd like to be at an "even" number (that comes in pill form) of milligrams when I go the hospital to have surgery (like, 1.50mg or 1.25mg). I'd hardly expect the nurses to mix up my liquid doses each day   Any thoughts on what people do when something comes up and they have to go into the hospital for a procedure, but they're at a weird dose, such as 1.39mg, at the time?

 

Hang tough everybody!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, Can somebody bring you your doses from home? Or can you mix them up ahead and put them in little bottles or in capped oral syringes?

 

Amazon has amber bottles called Boston rounds and oral syringes that come with caps. I've mixed up a week's worth of doses ahead and carried them around in bottles or capped syringes. If you look at my progress log (Gardener's Collection), I think there are links on there to what I bought.

 

I'm pretty sure when I was held overnight for observation when I had tachycardia I just kept my meds in my bag and took them myself.

 

Or does the hospital insist they have to have all of your meds?

 

Good luck and hope you are feeling better soon.

 

Gard

[[St...]]

Thank you AGAIN SG...   Stella

[[Ja...]]

Thank you builder!! That is great that you were symptom free

[[Ul...]]

Builder--

Sorry to repeat these questions

It looks like you started at 9mg? Had you cold turkey or fast tapered first? Was your full taper about two years? And was it fairly symptom free?

Wondering what the right schedule for me is.. I am currently doing 500 days for 5 mg but wondering if that is too slow considering the damage I have already done ( steroid shot damaged my Cns last year then cold turkey and fast taper bc I was only using .5 A 3 times per week for 3 mos but had diazepam usage for 20 years maybe once a week or once every two weeks and in my twenties for a full year and just stopped w no w/d.)

Thanks

 

Hi Jackson, you said that a steroid shot damaged your CNS. I'm just curious...how did it damage you? Also, what was being treated with the steroid? I ask because I may have to get a steroid shot for my back injury. I've been taking a big dose of prednisolone for the past 8 or 9 days to help with the inflammation and swelling in my back. Thanks!  Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Hey SG and Builder,

 

I haven't been on the site a whole lot lately. I had major surgery on my back several years back and did some real damage to it again about 9 days ago. Been on my back or stomach from then until now while waiting until April 12 to get to the orthopedic doc. Been down this path before and know it all too well, so probably looking at surgery again based on everything that's going on. I looked briefly at some of the posts over the chunk of days and saw some conversation about PG. I've got a crazy long ways to go with this K taper, but I was wondering if I should use PG as a solvent. I've been using vodka to this point. As you know, I've had to hold for months at a time due to so many other problems related to the long-term benzo use. Is PG that much "better"? I have a hard time cutting whenever I do cut, so I was wondering if PG may be helpful. I'd appreciate any guidance.

 

Oh...obviously, I'd like to be at an "even" number (that comes in pill form) of milligrams when I go the hospital to have surgery (like, 1.50mg or 1.25mg). I'd hardly expect the nurses to mix up my liquid doses each day   Any thoughts on what people do when something comes up and they have to go into the hospital for a procedure, but they're at a weird dose, such as 1.39mg, at the time?

 

Hang tough everybody!

 

Jeff

 

PG is no better or worse than alcohol.  It is just another option.  They both have pros and cons and both get the job done.

 

Hey SG, any thoughts on the 2nd part of my post regarding a hospital visit/surgery?

 

Jeff

[[li...]]

I've read several people here using interesting liquids for their taper. Is there a problem using whole milk with klonopin?  That's how I was taught. I use the .25 mg dissolvable wafers. Thanks

[[Ul...]]

Hey SG and Builder,

 

I haven't been on the site a whole lot lately. I had major surgery on my back several years back and did some real damage to it again about 9 days ago. Been on my back or stomach from then until now while waiting until April 12 to get to the orthopedic doc. Been down this path before and know it all too well, so probably looking at surgery again based on everything that's going on. I looked briefly at some of the posts over the chunk of days and saw some conversation about PG. I've got a crazy long ways to go with this K taper, but I was wondering if I should use PG as a solvent. I've been using vodka to this point. As you know, I've had to hold for months at a time due to so many other problems related to the long-term benzo use. Is PG that much "better"? I have a hard time cutting whenever I do cut, so I was wondering if PG may be helpful. I'd appreciate any guidance.

 

Oh...obviously, I'd like to be at an "even" number (that comes in pill form) of milligrams when I go the hospital to have surgery (like, 1.50mg or 1.25mg). I'd hardly expect the nurses to mix up my liquid doses each day   Any thoughts on what people do when something comes up and they have to go into the hospital for a procedure, but they're at a weird dose, such as 1.39mg, at the time?

 

Hang tough everybody!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, Can somebody bring you your doses from home? Or can you mix them up ahead and put them in little bottles or in capped oral syringes?

 

Amazon has amber bottles called Boston rounds and oral syringes that come with caps. I've mixed up a week's worth of doses ahead and carried them around in bottles or capped syringes. If you look at my progress log (Gardener's Collection), I think there are links on there to what I bought.

 

I'm pretty sure when I was held overnight for observation when I had tachycardia I just kept my meds in my bag and took them myself.

 

Or does the hospital insist they have to have all of your meds?

 

Good luck and hope you are feeling better soon.

 

Gard

 

Hey Gard. Yeh, they tell me that they have to see me take the med(s) they give me so they can document it. Obviously, it would be nice to be at a "normal" dose of K by the time surgery rolls around, but I can't really time or control that. Good ideas though on your end. I hope you're doing well too!!

 

Hugs to you!

 

Jeff

[[...]]

I've read several people here using interesting liquids for their taper. Is there a problem using whole milk with klonopin?  That's how I was taught. I use the .25 mg dissolvable wafers. Thanks

 

Milk is a good option for K.