Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[de...]]

I cant thank all of you for jumping on here and letting me know that you have suffered through the throat thing..i have been terrified..

 

went to the doc and the first thing he said was STOP..he wants me to hold and for how long he doesnt know but he doesnt like what he seeing or hearing in the last few months..i have went from 135 in sept til today i weighed 116..i dont have anymore weight to lose and he said with the loss of your son and your mom last summer your mind and body needs a break and i dont care how long of a break you take..but i need to see you better and not so weak..

 

he ordered a barium swallow done stat at the imaging place..the doctor there that did it looks at the pictures and said now please go eat..theres nothing there..

 

now i am just trying to figure out how you eat when you feel like you are choking..i am hoping it passes soon and i can get back to my daily life..

 

thanks again for all the support

 

SG  I took the rescue dose and well it did nothing which makes me think if i am ever in a pinch taking one is not going to help me anymore like it did a couple times when i updosed not a full dose but it pulled me out..thats kinda scary but it also lets me know i am at 1.74 mgs and thats where i have to just deal with being..

thanks for always giving your time and staying here and helping all of us even after you have been off for so long you are a great asset to this community 

 

deep

[[Hi...]]

So im starting my dry cut taper from 7.5 mg ativan using a scale its hard cuz the pills dont way exactly the same im so kindled and symptoms so severe waves in waves morbid psychoticterror nervous breakdowns muscle pain nerve pain burning cant open eyes nodding brain fog depersonalization derealization . Im trying go down .002 a day to drop .5mg in a month im not sure about this with

The methadone drop too. Ugg i want to go to a nice inpatient detox for 30 days i know its not good but i cant afford

[[be...]]

Hi SG and builder and everyone.

 

Bads set up a liquid taper schedule for me and I printed it out. But I now recall I am to dissolve 10 mg of Valium into 10 ml of Glycol. Isn't it better to have it diluted? I am dosing 4X a day off 70 mg, but want to cut one dose at a time. I'd be interested in your opinions, and if your way is better, then I need step by step instruction as I am an  now. I need some help now, as I am ready to make my next cut. The first cut, via C/H, was a disaster, even tho I only cut 5% of my total dose. Thanks. 

 

SG: This is what I printed out from you.

 

You can do this...

 

Dissolve a 2mg V pill into 4ml vodka, then add 96ml water to make 100ml.  Each ml=.02mg V.

 

To dose, all four doses will be: 10mg dry+5mg dry+2mg dry+.5mg (25ml) wet

 

When you feel ready to cut, remove .2mg (10ml) a day from the 100ml batch, then divide what remains into four equal doses by eyeballing them even on the counter.  This is an 8.6% a month rate (~4.3% every two weeks), which is conservative and should be a good place to begin.

 

I get the dissolve bit and the water. But the doses you mentioned that I should take 4X a day doesn't make sense to me. It would be 17.5 mg per dose, which equals 70 mg. Now I am on 66.5 mg. Also, I think I would need 9, 2 mg pills per day. Eight of them being a total of 4 doses per day, and I would need .5 mg in liquid that must be cut from an extra 2 mg pill. The total number would be 72 mg. I also like to take the most at bed, for sleep. Right now I am taking 30 mg at bed, and removed 3.5 mg from my third dose. Which did NOT work out for me. Pls, help me! I also do not want to take four doses of liquid per day.

[[...]]

Hi SG and builder and everyone.

 

Bads set up a liquid taper schedule for me and I printed it out. But I now recall I am to dissolve 10 mg of Valium into 10 ml of Glycol. Isn't it better to have it diluted? I am dosing 4X a day off 70 mg, but want to cut one dose at a time. I'd be interested in your opinions, and if your way is better, then I need step by step instruction as I am an  now. I need some help now, as I am ready to make my next cut. The first cut, via C/H, was a disaster, even tho I only cut 5% of my total dose. Thanks. 

 

10mg into 10ml will make a 1mg/ml strength.  The smallest accurate cut you can expect to make is ~.05ml (if you have a 1ml syringe).  This is .05mg.  To cut say 10% a month would be a reduction of .233mg (.23ml) a day.  That's plenty accurate for a 1ml syringe so that strength will be okay for a while.  As you go lower it will eventually be too strong and will need dilution, but it is not required now.

 

All methods have pros and cons.  One con I see is that you will ingest 10ml of PG a day and I think that kind of a lot and is not necessary.  That stuff is a good solvent, but I don't think it is good for us.  If you want to work with that strength and not ingest this much you could instead take more dry pills and just use 2ml per day.

 

For example, you could dose...

 

10mg x6=60mg

2mg x4=8mg

plus 2ml (2mg) of your 1mg/ml PG V liquid

 

If you dose 4x a day each dose would be...

 

one and a half 10mg pills + one 2mg pill + .5ml (.5mg) liquid.

 

This way, every week or two you'd get rid of a 2mg pill and your ingest only 2ml PG instead of 10ml.  Your 10ml supply of liquid would last five days.

[[de...]]

SG I am in a really bad way..i have not cut any in awhile and i am worse than i was on Tuesday basically chair bound..have never been this way..I cant eat..i have tried..the lump is still in my throat even after the swallow test showing nothing, hr up, palps, weakness, shakes, and i need your expertise..

 

I know you said you dont know alot about updosing but i am now scared and need some help from you math wise..I need to updose ..i dont know how much and at this point i dont care..i have to be able to eat and function at some level...i dont care if i have to go back to 2 mgs anything at this point to get some relief..cause not being able to eat..will throw me in the hospital which is one of biggest phobias..

 

so please when you read this if you think 10 % might help please let me know..and is 10% alot at this point?? I have no idea..

 

thanks so much

 

if anyone else has ever had to updose and been in this situation please let me know and what you did to pull out

thanks

 

deep

[[an...]]

SG I am in a really bad way..i have not cut any in awhile and i am worse than i was on Tuesday basically chair bound..have never been this way..I cant eat..i have tried..the lump is still in my throat even after the swallow test showing nothing, hr up, palps, weakness, shakes, and i need your expertise..

 

I know you said you dont know alot about updosing but i am now scared and need some help from you math wise..I need to updose ..i dont know how much and at this point i dont care..i have to be able to eat and function at some level...i dont care if i have to go back to 2 mgs anything at this point to get some relief..cause not being able to eat..will throw me in the hospital which is one of biggest phobias..

 

so please when you read this if you think 10 % might help please let me know..and is 10% alot at this point?? I have no idea..

 

thanks so much

 

if anyone else has ever had to updose and been in this situation please let me know and what you did to pull out

thanks

 

deep

 

Hi Deep,

 

I am so sorry you are going through this.  I do not know if there are any recommendations about updosing, but I can only tell you my experience.  Before my first taper I was on 0.25 mg/day of ativan and could barely function.  I updosed to 0.75 mg/day.  For me the updose worked and I felt good throughout the taper.  This is my second taper.  Before starting the taper I was on 0.5 mg and I updosed to 0.75 mg to get stable. Unlike the first taper, I did not completely stabilize and this has been rougher but manageable for the most part. If I had to do it over again, I would have updosed to 1 mg/day.  I am on Ativan and I could tell within a day or so if the updose worked.  I think you are on K, so I don't know any thing about that.  Keep in mind that an updose might or might not work though. Also, I am not sure how long it would take for you to feel it due to the longer half life of K.

 

Good luck.  I hope you feel better soon.

 

Anne

[[de...]]

anne thank you so much for getting back to me..and yes i am on k..and i am glad that the updose worked for you..an that is what i am looking for..i have to get some relief and soon..hope SG gets on at some point and does some math for me cause when it comes to percents an the weights i dont have a clue..

 

glad you are doing well

 

deep

[[...]]

SG I am in a really bad way..i have not cut any in awhile and i am worse than i was on Tuesday basically chair bound..have never been this way..I cant eat..i have tried..the lump is still in my throat even after the swallow test showing nothing, hr up, palps, weakness, shakes, and i need your expertise..

 

I know you said you dont know alot about updosing but i am now scared and need some help from you math wise..I need to updose ..i dont know how much and at this point i dont care..i have to be able to eat and function at some level...i dont care if i have to go back to 2 mgs anything at this point to get some relief..cause not being able to eat..will throw me in the hospital which is one of biggest phobias..

 

so please when you read this if you think 10 % might help please let me know..and is 10% alot at this point?? I have no idea..

 

thanks so much

 

if anyone else has ever had to updose and been in this situation please let me know and what you did to pull out

thanks

 

deep

 

I think your dose is about 1.75mg?  Here are some updose values to give you an idea...

 

5% - 1.838mg

10% - 1.925mg

15% - 2.012mg

20% - 2.100mg

25% - 2.188mg

 

I don't know how much to suggest.  I'd assume the harder you hit it the more likely it is to work.  It looks like Anne did much bigger percents like 100 and 200% and that they worked.  Is that required?  I don't know.  I would not think so.  A helpful thing is to think about the last dose you felt good at and give that a try.  Or you could try to go up in steps: 5%; 10%; 15%, until you get relief.  If those don't work you could always then go large and jump back some big amount.

[[de...]]

SGthank you so much but could you please tell me what the weights would be at those drops..

 

 

i dose...075 all 4 doses average weight .172...i cant do the math to know what the weights would be..

 

thanks

 

deep

[[...]]

SGthank you so much but could you please tell me what the weights would be at those drops..

 

 

i dose...075 all 4 doses average weight .172...i cant do the math to know what the weights would be..

 

thanks

 

deep

 

.172g/mg, so...

 

5% - 1.838mg=.316g (.079g x4)

10% - 1.925mg=.331g (.083g x4)

15% - 2.012mg=.346g (.087g x4)

20% - 2.100mg=.362g (.090g x4)

25% - 2.188mg=.376g (.094g x4)

 

Each 5% is .004g more per dose.  I am leaving for the day to help my son find an apartment.  Good luck with this.

[[de...]]

SG thank you so much for your time this morning

 

good luck with the apartment hunting

 

 

deep

[[Hi...]]

last nihgt my tonsil was irritated and i was thinking about the herpes crap man this last week has been so ok mostly like things would start building and id be like this is it but then no. No intrisive thoughts or fog really my head has been my own. Making jokes but scared. But not the chilling terror. Now im feeling super revved up emotional and menthol fog leg muscles are so week feel like i ran marathon. Cant remember what tormening akathisia and suicide feel like but i know its coming back. Right now im all shaky and i just dont want my eyes to go bad ans everything super sensitized so i can watch tv all weekend i feel out of my body. Ivr descided its not psychosis its extreme intrusive thoughts i get it worse than most people i think thats the torment

 

Still need help setting up taper i feel like im doing this blind and that makes things sketchy. What to do when trying to shave .002 a day but pills are all off average of .005

[[Mo...]]

SG thank you so much for your time this morning

 

good luck with the apartment hunting

 

 

deep

 

Deep, I have no wisdom or math skills to offer but I wanted to say I'm sorry you're not doing well.

I hope the up dose will put you in calmer waters.

Just sending a hug.

 

[[be...]]

Hi again SG or whoever can help.

 

SG, you told me you liked bad's method but not the PG.

 

So this is what you told me to do, which I am leaning on.

 

I answered your other post.  Bad's method is fine, in fact I like it for a high dose like yours.  It reminded me there is no need to dilute right now if you don't want to if you have a 1ml syringe.  I suggested a way to do the same thing, but take less PG, since I don't think that stuff is particularly healthy.

 

For a dose of 66.5mg just do this...

 

10mg dry + 5mg dry + 1.625mg (1.625ml) wet

 

Each dose is 16.625mg.  You said you dose 4x so this is for four even doses.  If you want to vary off that just move these to when you would rather take them, i.e., you can combine the liquid into one dose or move pills from one dose to another.  I think it is best to dose evenly, but it's your taper, not mine.  Do what works for you.

 

But bads said I should take 10 mg of a pill and dissolve it in 10 ml of PG. I get that each dose will be 16.625 mg. 4X a day. But I am planning to combine the liquid as I am out most of the day and it is impractical for me to bring the liquid in my car. Also, you didn't say now many mgs in pills should I dissolve? And how much PG to add. Also, I assume the drop rate would be different as I assume I won't be dissolving 10 mg of Valium. Can you also give me an equation how on how I should drop each day in liquid? I really don't have a clue. TY

 

Bets

 

[[...]]

But bads said I should take 10 mg of a pill and dissolve it in 10 ml of PG. I get that each dose will be 16.625 mg. 4X a day. But I am planning to combine the liquid as I am out most of the day and it is impractical for me to bring the liquid in my car. Also, you didn't say now many mgs in pills should I dissolve? And how much PG to add. Also, I assume the drop rate would be different as I assume I won't be dissolving 10 mg of Valium. Can you also give me an equation how on how I should drop each day in liquid? I really don't have a clue. TY

 

Bets

 

Do what Bad said.  Put 10mg into 10ml PG.  That makes a 10ml supply of 1mg/ml strength liquid.  Then use what you need each day and save the rest.  It will last you several days.  Your liquid dose would be 1.625ml (1.625mg).  When ready to taper the cut would be .23mg (.23ml) a day if you wanted to taper 10% a month.

[[st...]]

SG57

 

Hi SG,

        My son is on 2x5mg twice a day ( 20mg daily) as I mentioned in an earlier discussion.

Thanks for the formulas, we now know the math. I am going to shave .0009 off a morning pill + a full Tablet

and .0009 off an evening pill + a full tablet to get a .0018g total drop for day 1 of his taper. Will I just use a full 5mg tablet out of the bottle and then shave .0009 off the other for each dose or should I shave each whole tablet to a set number e.g.  .168mg before I start as a constant base line and then shave the .0009g off the reduction tablet.

My son thinks we should just take a 5mg tablet out of the bottle as it should have the right amount of V

in it and the just shave the other as needed. I seem to be only able to get the scales to within .0004g they are very sensitive, Is this ok?

He is starting tomorrow and I have already shaved to a baseline of .168 then .0009 off both morning and night will it matter to go back to a full tab out of the bottle if its unnecessary to set a baseline of .168mg

I hope this makes sense.

Thankyou.

[[...]]

SG57

 

Hi SG,

        My son is on 2x5mg twice a day ( 20mg daily) as I mentioned in an earlier discussion.

Thanks for the formulas, we now know the math. I am going to shave .0009 off a morning pill + a full Tablet

and .0009 off an evening pill + a full tablet to get a .0018g total drop for day 1 of his taper. Will I just use a full 5mg tablet out of the bottle and then shave .0009 off the other for each dose or should I shave each whole tablet to a set number e.g.  .168mg before I start as a constant base line and then shave the .0009g off the reduction tablet.

My son thinks we should just take a 5mg tablet out of the bottle as it should have the right amount of V

in it and the just shave the other as needed. I seem to be only able to get the scales to within .0004g they are very sensitive, Is this ok?

He is starting tomorrow and I have already shaved to a baseline of .168 then .0009 off both morning and night will it matter to go back to a full tab out of the bottle if its unnecessary to set a baseline of .168mg

I hope this makes sense.

Thankyou.

 

What is .001g worth?  5mg/.168g=29.8mg/g so .001g is .0298mg V.  This gives you an idea of the error involved when the weight is not quite right.  If a pill out of the bottler weighs .171g (for example), that is an extra .0893mg dosed.  If it weighs .165g, that would short him by .0893mg V.  Do errors of this size matter?  At his dose, probably not, especially since on average he is going to get the right dose...down a little one day, up a little the next.  After a week he will be very near the right dose.  Same for a month and on and on into the future.  He will always be near the right dose.

 

It sounds like his 20mg daily dose is .672g (.168x4).  If you are willing to do the work to make his total daily pill weight weigh this much I'd do it...why not, right?  But if it seems too tedious I don't think it will matter too much.  Errors will matter more as the dose gets smaller.

 

You've found a limit to your scale - .0004g.  That's .0119mg V...not much.  Another way to look at it is that it is .06% of his dose.  That's a tiny variation right now, since his dose is still quite high.  I would not sweat this.  Errors are part of tapering that at some point we just accept.  People who liquid taper accept much bigger errors than this when they liquify pills from the bottle without checking their weight.  Some days their liquid is a bit stronger or weaker, but after a month they are at the right dose and during that month they got (on average) the right amount of benzo.

[[jr...]]

i was dosing 4 times a day for a total of .077mg. I dropped a dose (stupid) and within about 10 days it kicked my butt. I updosed to .060 total and started a liquid taper x four doses but have not cut any. I can not seem to get stabile.I think it may be tolerance. I have a lot of anxiety and brain fog. Should I hold out? It has been 2 weeks already. Or should I bite the bullet and jump? your opinions are much appreciated.

[[Hi...]]

I wish someone would talk to me find soooo many people 6 years out arent healed or heal then years later it stsrts all over im never going to make it im on full psychotic meltdown pacing and sick my liver is really sick and i cant get treatment cuz insurrance and i HAVE to deal with this? This is xxxdome sort of cruel joke vuz so many people on here are struggling but have some sort of life i am still trying to grasp my head around whst to do cuz theres no help and im tormented but any more meds make it worse but i need some way to ease the symptoms or at least my torment the human can only undergo so much trauma some more than others but i fear ive already snapped it didnt start with this getting so bad right now its just build and build its so painful its torturing my soul im climbing the walls right now i wanna make it go away i cant stay in the moment. I having such a hard time getting disability its been a year since i applied behaviour health is spreading lies about me im thinking about tomorrow and i know tomorrow is ganna be one of those days where i wake up shaking traumatized pacing back and forth across town not knowing where to go or what to do. And what would happen if i could get into detox and suffer through it somehow what would make me heal faster? Am i ever going to heal? Ill never know till i can get off the pills crazypants reinstated for a week and now its been ten months and he is broken he only reinstated for a week 5mg valium i been back on for a year i sleep so long durring the night im scared uts not withdrawl but something else ive only tapered .015 of the pill in a weekthats nothing....

[[st...]]

SG57

 

Thanks again, Just one more question. To get daily reduction in mg (dose) do we just divide the monthly reduction by 29.8? we are doing 1.6mg over 30 days. You said it was 0.054mg cuts daily just making sure I understand the dosage side of things as well.

After a starting dose of .672 grams I deducted .0018 for his first days cut.

.672g - .0018g = .6702g

I then multiplied .6702g x 29.8 and it came to 19.972mg after first cut.

I think this is right because I calculated down 30 days using this formula

and after 30 days it was 18.416mg which is a 1.6mg drop.

Does this sound accurate to you?

 

Thanks for all your help

 

 

[[...]]

SG57

 

Thanks again, Just one more question. To get daily reduction in mg (dose) do we just divide the monthly reduction by 29.8? we are doing 1.6mg over 30 days. You said it was 0.054mg cuts daily just making sure I understand the dosage side of things as well.

After a starting dose of .672 grams I deducted .0018 for his first days cut.

.672g - .0018g = .6702g

I then multiplied .6702g x 29.8 and it came to 19.972mg after first cut.

I think this is right because I calculated down 30 days using this formula

and after 30 days it was 18.416mg which is a 1.6mg drop.

Does this sound accurate to you?

 

Thanks for all your help

 

Yes, you've got it.  You're all over it.

[[St...]]

I have been trying the LT for over three weeks now, and I am getting worse instead of better, I feel so weak and sick and have huge trembling and shaking and anxiety/rage attacks, I really think I am not tolerating the LT....I want to go back to dry cutting, where would I go to?  I am at 0.060 dose on LT, where would I start at to go back to dry cutting with gram scale, I know it is not as accurate, but I felt better than I do on the liquid, just feel like I am not taking anything at all, this is awful....I have been holding at this dose for the whole time and not cutting....

[[jr...]]

I have been trying the LT for over three weeks now, and I am getting worse instead of better, I feel so weak and sick and have huge trembling and shaking and anxiety/rage attacks, I really think I am not tolerating the LT....I want to go back to dry cutting, where would I go to?  I am at 0.060 dose on LT, where would I start at to go back to dry cutting with gram scale, I know it is not as accurate, but I felt better than I do on the liquid, just feel like I am not taking anything at all, this is awful....I have been holding at this dose for the whole time and not cutting....

 

It takes a bit to get used to LT. It did for me anyways. if you want to go back to dry cut , just go back to what you were doing before you started a liquid taper.

[[St...]]

How long did it take to get used to it?  I have been at it for three weeks now....also changed my doses from four to five a day....think I could still get used to it?

 

[[jr...]]

It took me about 10 days and as you ,I went from 4 to 5 doses per day. I think it will come in any day now. If it dont , just go back.