Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Ok fair enough, would I use a mixture of 2mg's and 5 mg's if I went that route? If I were using strictly 2mg pills I would go through them pretty quickly. These scales are used in Labs and for medical purposes and can measure 4 decimal places. I will compare the difference with the two pills.

Is it best to c/c/h or c/h/c/h?

If you think its best to start by microtapering I might just do that, how would I do a 1.5mg reduction per month in weight and dose?

Thanks SG57 much appreciated.

 

If you can get 5mg and 2mg pills mixed that would be great.  Use your 5mg to dose 15mg and taper the 2mg pills.  2mg pills plus the quality of your scale is a pretty good setup for dry MT.

 

You don't need to do c/c/h or any of that.  You'll be cutting daily.  Go back a few posts an re-read what I wrote about what each .0010g on the scale is worth in V.  If you have 2mg pills you'll be able to cut ~.0040g every day for a while.  Even with 5mg pills you'll be able to cut .0018g a day.

[Guest [ba...]]

Standard tapers are not usually a certain number of milligrams per month.  It's usually a percentage decrease each day.  And since the amount you take decreases each day, the percentage of that decreasing amount means small cuts (in mg) each day.  You might start with 0.05 mg per day cuts, but half way through your taper, you'd be cutting 0.025 mg per day.

 

You could opt for a linear taper designed for a rate of 1.5 mg per month (= 0.05 mg per day).  Linear tapers cut the same amount every day until you reach zero. 

[[me...]]

Hi,

 

I posted in the forum but nobody answered. I adjusted to the liquid and was doing fine. I tapered at .02 for the last 45 days. I hit the 1.5mg mark and my sleep went terrible. Now I can hardly sleep and feel worse. I have been holding for the past few days. Is this normal for daily tapering? For it to take 45 days to hit me? I am assuming that after I hold for a bit I will feel better? Will it be ok to keep tapering at .02 after that? I really dont want to taper any slower. I have been at this 3 years now

[[Mo...]]

Hi,

 

I posted in the forum but nobody answered. I adjusted to the liquid and was doing fine. I tapered at .02 for the last 45 days. I hit the 1.5mg mark and my sleep went terrible. Now I can hardly sleep and feel worse. I have been holding for the past few days. Is this normal for daily tapering? For it to take 45 days to hit me? I am assuming that after I hold for a bit I will feel better? Will it be ok to keep tapering at .02 after that? I really dont want to taper any slower. I have been at this 3 years now

 

It does accumulate, the cuts. I think it's not unusual at all. Maybe you need a little break from cutting and hold for a while longer. That is what I would do. Usually a hold would help.

It's not like with cut and hold where it will HIT you on 45 days  but it all ads up.

After I did my holds, I have resumed with my regular cuts. When it becomes a regularity that you feel " hit" after some time, then maybe after seeing what happens next time you could do planned holds to avoid this.

I do have to say, that the lower you get, the larger percentage your cuts will be if you keep cutting at the same size. I didn't adjust that till under 1 mgr myself ..

Sorry you can not sleep. For me, holding a bit would usually make that better.

Did you ever try Unisom for sleep? It's an over the counter, non habit forming sleep aid, and antihistamine. Half a 25 mgr tab did the trick for me.

You can alternate with Benadryl , too.

 

 

[[st...]]

So would that mean if I dose 10mg 2 x a day I would take 1 5mg and 2 and a half 2mg pills twice daily but shave one 2mg pill in the morning and one for night?

 

So with 5mg pills alone its cuttig  .0018g and if I were able to use the 2mg its .0040g?

 

And by cutting this way every day for a month I will be coming down 8% a month ( 1.6mg ) at current dose.

 

I'll see what I can do with the 2mg pills but it makes it diffucult with my doctor the way he is, is it possible to taper all the way down to zero with the 5mg pills with this calibre of scale if I cant?

[Guest [ba...]]

I feel like I will never understand this and yet I think I need to do it. I am stuck at 7mg. diazepam and doing dry cuts. I definitely need something smoother. When your brain is fried and your trying to figure this out it's horrible. I don't understand the math. I understand 1mg. or a quarter of a mg. I guess you are using fractions? Math has never been my subject.

 

Is there anyone out there that can help me understand this? I appreciate any and all efforts!!!

 

Thank you! 

 

Are you weighing your dry cuts or just eyeballing 1/2's, 1/4's & 1/8's??  1/2's, 1/4's & 1/8's are too large a cut for daily micro tapering.  Depending on the pill size, you might be removing 1/100th of the pill per day.  You either need a scale to weigh each day's doses or you need to do liquids as SG has suggested.

[[Re...]]

Hello Friend.

 

May I join here? I am from germany and try to write good english. 

 

Sorry if my writing seems confusing....sorry about that

I was not able to think clearly the last 4 or 5 days but began to stabilise on 3mg clonitrazolam daily split up in 8 single doses.

 

I attempt to microtaper - daily reduce a tiny amount - taken out by syringes.

 

best regards and many greetings, Felix

[[...]]

Hi,

 

I posted in the forum but nobody answered. I adjusted to the liquid and was doing fine. I tapered at .02 for the last 45 days. I hit the 1.5mg mark and my sleep went terrible. Now I can hardly sleep and feel worse. I have been holding for the past few days. Is this normal for daily tapering? For it to take 45 days to hit me? I am assuming that after I hold for a bit I will feel better? Will it be ok to keep tapering at .02 after that? I really dont want to taper any slower. I have been at this 3 years now

 

I don't think it's that the cut took 45 days to hit you.  I think you might have used up that cut.  As our dose gets lower and lower the number of receptors that get exposed from a cut creeps up and up.  The body can only do so many in a day.  So to compensate for this we need to reduce the cut size.  If you are not satisfied with the way you feel I'd say you need to hold until things come right.  Then, when ready to taper again, begin with a smaller cut...maybe .015mg.

[[...]]

So would that mean if I dose 10mg 2 x a day I would take 1 5mg and 2 and a half 2mg pills twice daily but shave one 2mg pill in the morning and one for night?

 

So with 5mg pills alone its cuttig  .0018g and if I were able to use the 2mg its .0040g?

 

And by cutting this way every day for a month I will be coming down 8% a month ( 1.6mg ) at current dose.

 

I'll see what I can do with the 2mg pills but it makes it diffucult with my doctor the way he is, is it possible to taper all the way down to zero with the 5mg pills with this calibre of scale if I cant?

 

I think you could use the 5mg pills to the end if you had to, especially with your scale.  At the end of tapers a daily cut of ~.010mg V is often required.  That is ~.0003g with your 5mg pills.  Your scale can do that (although it might drive your dad nuts).  But even if it can't you could always go to a c/h/h pattern (one cut every three days) to finish your taper.  You can definitely make it work.

 

There are several combos that work.  For a 10mg x2 dose you could take 1.5 5mg pills twice a day, plus 1.25 2mg pills twice a day.  The only pills getting filed would be one 2mg pill for each dose.  The rest would either be full pills or a full pill split in half.

 

That's right.  Your 5mg pills are .0294mg for each .001g and your 2mg pills are .0118mg for each .001g.  That's a ratio of 2.49 so to match the .0018g 5mg cut would require .0045g on the 2mg pill.

 

The daily reduction would be .053mg.  Over 30 days that is 1.59mg.  Your starting dose was 20mg so 1.59/20 is ~8%.  From experience we know this is generally a pace that almost everyone (but not everyone) can handle, so I think it is a sensible place to jump in and get your bearings.  You can adjust from there after you evaluate how it went.

[[Ul...]]

I found a site that lists hydrocodone as a 3A4 inhibitor and 3A4 is the enzyme that metabolizes X.  So this is saying that hydrocodone keeps your X around longer, basically increasing its half life for a while.  It does not create a shortage of X, it creates an excess.  We don't know how much excess and if it is enough to matter, or even if an excess is a bad thing.  But there it is.  My gut feeling is this is not the problem.

 

Hi SG! Sometime ago you told me about enzyme inhibitors and how to tell if a med interferes with my K taper. I can't remember what you said and I also can't find it. Anyway, the bottom line is that I'm about to start taking something called NP Thyroid. It's a natural dessicated thyroid med that isn't synthetic like Levothyroxine, Synthroid, etc. Can you tell me how I'd go about seeing what reactions occur between K and NP Thyroid? I'll start at 30mg and then increase based on symptoms and labs. As you know, this ridiculous dose of K I've taken for 22 yrs has affected so many things, and my thyroid is just one of them. I'm still hoping for some kind of relief.

 

One other thing that you know I struggle with: Sleep. It's still non-existent for the most part. Incredibly frustrating. Have tried working a job quite a few times, but never been able to handle the sx of tapering, no sleep, etc. Just too much. The financial stress has been killer too, as so many of us have experienced. My lack of sleep didn't occur until I began the taper a year ago or so. Do you have any thoughts on why I seem to be struggling in a drastic way with insomnia as compared to most people on this thread? Again, the sleep problem only occurred when the taper started.

 

Oh yeh...what am I going to do when I EVENTUALLY get down to a low dose of tapering? That's probably several years from now (at this rate). You'll probably be gone!! You and Builder will probably be off in the Carribean someplace. I'm gonna have SG/Builder withdrawals in addition to K withdrawals! I/we need you, man!!!

 

Bless ya,

 

Jeff

[[...]]

I found a site that lists hydrocodone as a 3A4 inhibitor and 3A4 is the enzyme that metabolizes X.  So this is saying that hydrocodone keeps your X around longer, basically increasing its half life for a while.  It does not create a shortage of X, it creates an excess.  We don't know how much excess and if it is enough to matter, or even if an excess is a bad thing.  But there it is.  My gut feeling is this is not the problem.

 

Hi SG! Sometime ago you told me about enzyme inhibitors and how to tell if a med interferes with my K taper. I can't remember what you said and I also can't find it. Anyway, the bottom line is that I'm about to start taking something called NP Thyroid. It's a natural dessicated thyroid med that isn't synthetic like Levothyroxine, Synthroid, etc. Can you tell me how I'd go about seeing what reactions occur between K and NP Thyroid? I'll start at 30mg and then increase based on symptoms and labs. As you know, this ridiculous dose of K I've taken for 22 yrs has affected so many things, and my thyroid is just one of them. I'm still hoping for some kind of relief.

 

One other thing that you know I struggle with: Sleep. It's still non-existent for the most part. Incredibly frustrating. Have tried working a job quite a few times, but never been able to handle the sx of tapering, no sleep, etc. Just too much. The financial stress has been killer too, as so many of us have experienced. My lack of sleep didn't occur until I began the taper a year ago or so. Do you have any thoughts on why I seem to be struggling in a drastic way with insomnia as compared to most people on this thread? Again, the sleep problem only occurred when the taper started.

 

Oh yeh...what am I going to do when I EVENTUALLY get down to a low dose of tapering? That's probably several years from now (at this rate). You'll probably be gone!! You and Builder will probably be off in the Carribean someplace. I'm gonna have SG/Builder withdrawals in addition to K withdrawals! I/we need you, man!!!

 

Bless ya,

 

Jeff

 

Haha, well I don't see an end yet so I won't be leaving any time soon.  I'm not sure about Builder...haven't seen him around the past few days.  In fact, both he and DP have not been around lately.  I hope they haven't left.  I'd like to see a few others step up as they gain experience.  That's the only way to keep it going.

 

I had the same situation as you.  Never had a sleep problem in my life, but struggled during the taper and still am not happy with it, although it has improved to 5-6 hours a night.  I used to get 7 1/2-8 sound hours.  I don't know what to say other than insomnia is a symptom so I'd think the best way to control it by taper rate.

 

On the NP thyroid, Search "np thyroid cyp450" and "inducer" or "inhibitor" and see what shows up for the 3A4 enzyme (that's the one that metabolizes K).  Is there a generic name for that drug?  I did not see much about it when I looked quickly.

[[Mo...]]

Hi Jeff,

Are you going to be taking naturethroid? Or Armour thyroid ?

I am about to go the same route... Could not tolerate  the Levo or the synthroid.

Seeing a new doc about it Monday.

What a hassle, no? 

 

Hoping Builder is doing ok...

[[st...]]

Thanks SG, much appreciated.

 

So if I were to use the 2mg pills we wouldn't be filing the quarters just the full 2mg pills?

[[...]]

Thanks SG, much appreciated.

 

So if I were to use the 2mg pills we wouldn't be filing the quarters just the full 2mg pills?

 

I'm not sure what you mean.  For all 2mg pills in two doses each dose would be four full 2mg pills plus one filed pill.  For 5mg and 2mg combo each dose would be a full 5mg plus a half 5mg plus a full 2mg plus a filed 2mg.

[[me...]]

@moodle Thanks. Are you sure the Unisom is not habit forming? I would think any sleep aid would be. Are you still taking it? Did you have any side affects? How did you feel the next day and how long in a row did you sleep?

[[Mo...]]

@moodle Thanks. Are you sure the Unisom is not habit forming? I would think any sleep aid would be. Are you still taking it? Did you have any side affects? How did you feel the next day and how long in a row did you sleep?

 

I'm sure it's non habit forming. You can not get addicted to it. It is an antihistamine. Or you can try Benadryl.

That being said, there is a change it might stop being helpful when using too often. This is something I have read here over and over. This is why many people alternate between Benadryl, unisom, melatonin, etc.

It will make you drowsy, like Benadryl and puts me to sleep.

During my taper at the start , I could not sleep. Some days I didn't sleep at all. Others maybe 1-2 hours for weeks in a row. With unisom I got a couple of hours more and I still take it when sleep won't come.

I do not have side effects from it, as long as I take half a tab, which always does the trick.

I use half of a 25 mgr tab. As most people seem to do here.

A few times when I was hard core insomniac , I resorted to a whole tab and I felt groggy in the morning.

 

Hoping this helps.

 

If there are any contra indications, I'm sure it's on the back of the box or ask your pharmacist, maybe..

[[st...]]

SG57

Hi,

  You have been conversing with my son on this account regarding a dry micro cut using precision high calibre analytical scales. I will be using his account from now on periodically to get a better understanding of the math and also because he is so unwell with symptoms. We have saved everything you have written and can't thank you enough for your knowledge and time.

Unfortunately for myself and my son I still struggle to put any sort of monthly plan together using the information you have supplied. I basically need to know how you would lay this out so we can look at the first month and not be stressed about whether we are doing it right on paper. We have seen a spreadsheet for liquid titration which was formatted similar to this.

Starting dose : 20mg per day in 2 x 10mg doses of 5mg tabs. My son takes 2 x 10mg doses daily.

Dose after first cut :    10 mg - half of .0018          10mg - half of .0018

It also gave us the percentage of the dose after each of the daily cuts and the dose itself after each cut.

The percentage is important so we know it is not too high. So if an 8% drop in 30 days = 1.6 mg what is .054mg in weight?

 

 

I am going to give an example of my impression : This is a day and night dose so we halve the .0018g 

 

                      Dose    Reduction  Dose            %            Dose    Reduction        Dose        %

      Day 1      10mg    .0009g      9.9991g    ?              10.mg      .0009g          9.9991g    ?

      Day 2      9.9991  .0009g      9.9982g    ?              9.9991    .0009g          9.9982g    ?

      Day 3      9.9982  .0009g      9.9973g    ?              9.9982    .0009g          9.9973g    ?   

      Day 4      9.9973  .0009g      9.9964g    ?              9.9982    .0009g          9.9964g    ? 

 

Does this seem right ?

 

I need to put this in a spreadsheet for someone to edit. If I am on the right track it should only need the percentages put in. I will never be able to work that out I just don't have the math skills. Would this be something you could help us with or if not could you direct us to someone that can.

We want to start with 5mg pills and start using 2mg as the dose drops. It is upsetting to me that I don't have the skills to work this out myself, as my son is counting on me to keep it all rolling if he becomes too sick. I know this is a lot to ask but I am desperate to put this monthly plan together so we can get started. I know you must get a lot of questions but would appreciate any help with this.                           

                       

 

I'm not quite sure about this message you sent below:

"I'm not sure what you mean.  For all 2mg pills in two doses each dose would be four full 2mg pills plus one filed pill.  For 5mg and 2mg combo each dose would be a full 5mg plus a half 5mg plus a full 2mg plus a filed 2mg."

 

For mixing tabs in the 2 doses.

If you add up 5mg plus a half  5mg  plus a full 2mg plus another 2mg (filed ) would it come to 11.5 mg

I would have thought it would be 5mg + a half 5mg  plus a 2 mg plus a quarter mg which adds up to 10mg

and start shaving the 2mg and drop the 1/4 (0.5mg) once we come down that dose This is only for later if we were to go the mixed tablet route. Still deciding whether or not to go mixed tab route now or wait until dose is down closer to 14mg-15mg as my sons doctor can be hard to work with. Would rather concentrate on a monthly plan for now, that is the priority.

 

Thank you so much.

 

[[re...]]

I feel like I will never understand this and yet I think I need to do it. I am stuck at 7mg. diazepam and doing dry cuts. I definitely need something smoother. When your brain is fried and your trying to figure this out it's horrible. I don't understand the math. I understand 1mg. or a quarter of a mg. I guess you are using fractions? Math has never been my subject.

 

Is there anyone out there that can help me understand this? I appreciate any and all efforts!!!

 

Thank you! 

 

Are you weighing your dry cuts or just eyeballing 1/2's, 1/4's & 1/8's??  1/2's, 1/4's & 1/8's are too large a cut for daily micro tapering.  Depending on the pill size, you might be removing 1/100th of the pill per day.  You either need a scale to weigh each day's doses or you need to do liquids as SG has suggested.

 

Thank you Moodle and SG57 too! Thanks for explaining Moodle!

 

badsocref,

 

I am using a pill cutter but I am eyeballing when I cut a half in half. I am sure it is not accurate as when you cut some of it becomes powder. I think I need a scale. Anyone recommend a certain scale?

 

 

[[re...]]

SG57

Hi,

  You have been conversing with my son on this account regarding a dry micro cut using precision high calibre analytical scales. I will be using his account from now on periodically to get a better understanding of the math and also because he is so unwell with symptoms. We have saved everything you have written and can't thank you enough for your knowledge and time.

Unfortunately for myself and my son I still struggle to put any sort of monthly plan together using the information you have supplied. I basically need to know how you would lay this out so we can look at the first month and not be stressed about whether we are doing it right on paper. We have seen a spreadsheet for liquid titration which was formatted similar to this.

Starting dose : 20mg per day in 2 x 10mg doses of 5mg tabs. My son takes 2 x 10mg doses daily.

Dose after first cut :    10 mg - half of .0018          10mg - half of .0018

It also gave us the percentage of the dose after each of the daily cuts and the dose itself after each cut.

The percentage is important so we know it is not too high. So if an 8% drop in 30 days = 1.6 mg what is .054mg in weight?

 

 

I am going to give an example of my impression : This is a day and night dose so we halve the .0018 

 

                      Dose    Reduction  Dose            %            Dose    Reduction        Dose        %

      Day 1      10mg    .0009g      9.9991g    ?              10.mg      .0009g          9.9991g    ?

      Day 2      9.9991  .0009g      9.9982g    ?              9.9991    .0009g          9.9982g    ?

      Day 3      9.9982  .0009g      9.9973g    ?              9.9982    .0009g          9.9973g    ?   

      Day 4      9.9973  .0009g      9.9964g    ?              9.9982    .0009g          9.9964g    ? 

 

I am not sure how this will appear the message I have laid it out in a spreadsheet style.

 

I would like to put this in a spreadsheet for someone to edit. If I am on the right track it should only need the percentages put in. I will never be able to work that out I just don't have the math skills. Would this be something you could help us with or if not could you direct us to someone that can.

We want to start with 5mg pills and start using 2mg as the dose drops. It is upsetting to me that I don't have the skills to work this out myself, as my son is counting on me to keep it all rolling if he becomes too sick. I know this is a lot to ask but I am desperate to put this monthly plan together so we can get started. I know you must get a lot of questions but would appreciate any help with this.                           

                       

           

 

Finally! Someone else who seems to need more clarity too! So I am not the only one! Thanks all who try to help us understand!!!

[[...]]

SG57

Hi,

  You have been conversing with my son on this account regarding a dry micro cut using precision high calibre analytical scales. I will be using his account from now on periodically to get a better understanding of the math and also because he is so unwell with symptoms. We have saved everything you have written and can't thank you enough for your knowledge and time.

Unfortunately for myself and my son I still struggle to put any sort of monthly plan together using the information you have supplied. I basically need to know how you would lay this out so we can look at the first month and not be stressed about whether we are doing it right on paper. We have seen a spreadsheet for liquid titration which was formatted similar to this.

Starting dose : 20mg per day in 2 x 10mg doses of 5mg tabs. My son takes 2 x 10mg doses daily.

Dose after first cut :    10 mg - half of .0018          10mg - half of .0018

It also gave us the percentage of the dose after each of the daily cuts and the dose itself after each cut.

The percentage is important so we know it is not too high. So if an 8% drop in 30 days = 1.6 mg what is .054mg in weight?

 

 

I am going to give an example of my impression : This is a day and night dose so we halve the .0018g 

 

                      Dose    Reduction  Dose            %            Dose    Reduction        Dose        %

      Day 1      10mg    .0009g      9.9991g    ?              10.mg      .0009g          9.9991g    ?

      Day 2      9.9991  .0009g      9.9982g    ?              9.9991    .0009g          9.9982g    ?

      Day 3      9.9982  .0009g      9.9973g    ?              9.9982    .0009g          9.9973g    ?   

      Day 4      9.9973  .0009g      9.9964g    ?              9.9982    .0009g          9.9964g    ? 

 

Does this seem right ?

 

I need to put this in a spreadsheet for someone to edit. If I am on the right track it should only need the percentages put in. I will never be able to work that out I just don't have the math skills. Would this be something you could help us with or if not could you direct us to someone that can.

We want to start with 5mg pills and start using 2mg as the dose drops. It is upsetting to me that I don't have the skills to work this out myself, as my son is counting on me to keep it all rolling if he becomes too sick. I know this is a lot to ask but I am desperate to put this monthly plan together so we can get started. I know you must get a lot of questions but would appreciate any help with this.                           

                       

 

I'm not quite sure about this message you sent below:

"I'm not sure what you mean.  For all 2mg pills in two doses each dose would be four full 2mg pills plus one filed pill.  For 5mg and 2mg combo each dose would be a full 5mg plus a half 5mg plus a full 2mg plus a filed 2mg."

 

For mixing tabs in the 2 doses.

If you add up 5mg plus a half  5mg  plus a full 2mg plus another 2mg (filed ) would it come to 11.5 mg

I would have thought it would be 5mg + a half 5mg  plus a 2 mg plus a quarter mg which adds up to 10mg

and start shaving the 2mg and drop the 1/4 (0.5mg) once we come down that dose This is only for later if we were to go the mixed tablet route. Still deciding whether or not to go mixed tab route now or wait until dose is down closer to 14mg-15mg as my sons doctor can be hard to work with. Would rather concentrate on a monthly plan for now, that is the priority.

 

Thank you so much.

 

I'd have to see the spreadsheet, but what you don't want to do is "schedule" anything.  This is extremely important.  Trying to march to a schedule is a bad idea as these drugs do not work that way.  This all needs to be flexible based on how he feels...that will be his guide.  If symptoms begin to trend up he needs to hold or reduce cut size.  Symptoms should never be allowed to increase.  A spiral notebook works great for most people to keep track of things.  A spreadsheet can be used if preferred, but only to keep records, not to schedule.

 

Your reductions seem fine, but need to be given in mgs V instead of pill weight.  5mg pills weighing .168g means 29.8mg V per gram.  So .0009g x 29.8mg/g = .027mgs cut for each dose (.054mg for the day).  I don't know what percentage they are looking for.  The percent reduced from the beginning would be the current dose divided by the original dose times 100.

 

Just have him cut .054mg (.0018g) a day and pay attention to symptoms.  This will drop him ~2% a week.  There really is no monthly plan - just a daily cut size and monitoring for symptom increase.  If, after a few weeks, he is no worse or is feeling better then we know his cut size is within his body's ability to keep up and he can consider a bigger cut.  He should feel free to hold whenever he wants and for as long as he wants, but the expectation is he will do fine on this cut and be able to roll with a cut every day - that's why we picked it.

 

On the pills, yes that is what I meant.  5mg+(half of 5mg)+2mg+(2mg filed down to whatever weight remains to get the right dose).  But no need to sweat that now as you are using 5mg pills.  They should work fine.

[[st...]]

SG57

 

Thanks,

          My son is worried if something happens and he loses contact or has trouble contacting someone for updated advice. I know the spreadsheet isn't to be followed strictly as symptoms and doses change but I thought it would give me a baseline to try and work out future cuts and how everything relates and not having to rely on online assistance to have a feeling of control.  Also wondering about how low we can cut with the .0001 scales with 5mg pills. Moving foreword I will not be able to comprehend the ".0009g x 29.8mg/g = .027mgs. How did you work out that formula what equation gave you that result?  "That is the whole problem if I could understand that, I would not have asked any questions I would have just worked it out. We need ongoing support and can't rely on that as things and peoples availability changes. If I have to find someone locally that is good at math and try to get them to help me understand how that equation works then I will. I will never understand how you got to that.  I can't stress enough my inability to work out even the most simple of equations. We are both extremely worried about down the track. We have no confidence as we don't have any ability whatsoever to adjust doses without advice. I know what your saying about holding and adjusting doses but it seems we are never going to know where we are sitting at any given time ( no math skills ).

Short term I want him to cut .0009 x 2 daily (.054mg) in total, dropping 1.6mg a month holding when necessary based on symptoms and eventually adding in 2mg for a smoother ride as you have stated. In the meantime I will try my best to wrap my head around this equation to give us more confidence in this process.  I read it was good to keep the cut rate below 10%, how will I ever know if we have gone over that?

Also does 10mg - .0009g = 9.9991g after a cut? I want to document as we go.

Thankyou for your time I hope you understand my concerns.

 

 

 

[[Ki...]]

@moodle Thanks. Are you sure the Unisom is not habit forming? I would think any sleep aid would be. Are you still taking it? Did you have any side affects? How did you feel the next day and how long in a row did you sleep?

 

I'm sure it's non habit forming. You can not get addicted to it. It is an antihistamine. Or you can try Benadryl.

That being said, there is a change it might stop being helpful when using too often. This is something I have read here over and over. This is why many people alternate between Benadryl, unisom, melatonin, etc.

It will make you drowsy, like Benadryl and puts me to sleep.

During my taper at the start , I could not sleep. Some days I didn't sleep at all. Others maybe 1-2 hours for weeks in a row. With unisom I got a couple of hours more and I still take it when sleep won't come.

I do not have side effects from it, as long as I take half a tab, which always does the trick.

I use half of a 25 mgr tab. As most people seem to do here.

A few times when I was hard core insomniac , I resorted to a whole tab and I felt groggy in the morning.

 

Hoping this helps.

 

If there are any contra indications, I'm sure it's on the back of the box or ask your pharmacist, maybe..

 

Here is a link to a list of sedating antihistamines.

http://www.resourcepharm.com/pre-reg-pharmacist/sedating-antihistamines-and-non-sedating-antihistamines.html

[[ga...]]

Hello Friend.

 

May I join here? I am from germany and try to write good english. 

 

Sorry if my writing seems confusing....sorry about that

I was not able to think clearly the last 4 or 5 days but began to stabilise on 3mg clonitrazolam daily split up in 8 single doses.

 

I attempt to microtaper - daily reduce a tiny amount - taken out by syringes.

 

best regards and many greetings, Felix

 

Welcome. We can help you if you have questions. Can you add a signature? Look at the other posts. Under most posts (including mine) is a "signature" which tells us about the person's history with benzodiazepines. To do this, you go to go to profile and then forum profile and then look for the box to add your signature. Knowing a person's history with benzos and other meds makes it easier to be of help.

 

Gard

[[...]]

SG57

 

Thanks,

          My son is worried if something happens and he loses contact or has trouble contacting someone for updated advice. I know the spreadsheet isn't to be followed strictly as symptoms and doses change but I thought it would give me a baseline to try and work out future cuts and how everything relates and not having to rely on online assistance to have a feeling of control.  Also wondering about how low we can cut with the .0001 scales with 5mg pills. Moving foreword I will not be able to comprehend the ".0009g x 29.8mg/g = .027mgs. How did you work out that formula what equation gave you that result?  "That is the whole problem if I could understand that, I would not have asked any questions I would have just worked it out. We need ongoing support and can't rely on that as things and peoples availability changes. If I have to find someone locally that is good at math and try to get them to help me understand how that equation works then I will. I will never understand how you got to that.  I can't stress enough my inability to work out even the most simple of equations. We are both extremely worried about down the track. We have no confidence as we don't have any ability whatsoever to adjust doses without advice. I know what your saying about holding and adjusting doses but it seems we are never going to know where we are sitting at any given time ( no math skills ).

Short term I want him to cut .0009 x 2 daily (.054mg) in total, dropping 1.6mg a month holding when necessary based on symptoms and eventually adding in 2mg for a smoother ride as you have stated. In the meantime I will try my best to wrap my head around this equation to give us more confidence in this process.  I read it was good to keep the cut rate below 10%, how will I ever know if we have gone over that?

Also does 10mg - .0009g = 9.9991g after a cut? I want to document as we go.

Thankyou for your time I hope you understand my concerns.

 

I think you are making it more complicated than it is.  The key number for your 5mg pills is 29.8mg/g.  Write it down.  It is the number you multiply the weight by to know the amount of V in that weight.  It will never change.  That's it.  That's all there is.  Whenever you have a 5mg weight just multiply it by 29.8 and that will be the amount of V in that weight.

 

On your scale, since you can go to .0001g the smallest cut you can make is .0001g, right?  How many mgs V is that?  .0001g x 29.8=.00298mg...that's smaller than you will ever need, even at the very end of the taper.

 

10mg-.054mg=9.946mg after a cut.  Don't mix dose weight with gram scale weight...two different things.  Think of the 5mg pill this way: it weighs .168g, right?  That's also known as 168mg.  The amount of V in it is 5mg.  This means 163mg is inert filler.  In other words, the 168mg scale weight is 163mg filler+5mg V.  The scale weight is both filler+V whereas the dose weight is just V.

 

To get percentage at any time just divide the dose by the starting dose and multiply by 100.

 

I can see you are on the right track and understand the arithmetic, but are just not confident you are right.  That will come.

[[ga...]]

Hi SG. Hi Moo. Hi everybody else my brain can't remember. Having a bad time this week. Holding my L but trying to reduce my daytime gabapentin because it zonks me out so much. Holy mackerel, almost as bad as cutting a benzo. Lots of old, nasty symptoms back. Waiting for them to settle down. Will be here more when feeling better.

 

Gard