Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

This brings to mind something Shipko said. He mentioned in his Xanax book how a person may be unable to tolerate cuts at one point and then a few months later do fine with the same cuts. He thinks it was just timing but perhaps it was actually the hold. What I have trouble with is how I find standing still to be depressing in and of itself. And, I've been nudged along by my prescriber. Changing back to prescribing by my primary next month when my psychiatrist leaves, so we'll see what her approach is. Sometimes we have no choice but to go with our prescribers pace, sadly.

 

You could drop the taper into low gear and taper with very small cuts to keep the feeling you are at least moving forward.  It's an option.

 

Yes, I've done that in the past and will be trying it again this week, I think. I will call it micro-micro-tapering.

 

The week hold did some good but I'm still get strong symptom zaps and am generally on edge all the time. But this is an improvement. I wonder if the zaps (not brain zaps, rather very intense periods of symptoms that can be short or long and always tie my brain up in knots) are from the Xanax still getting me somehow even after almost 2 months of being off of it.

[[in...]]

TYTYTY

 

omg no i never read the direction, (duh)

 

so yes, will calibrate and try using the measure round thing, do I put that on the scale before the holding tray on top to weigh my dose?

me looey in la capasa'

love

kathy

[[Mo...]]

TYTYTY

 

omg no i never read the direction, (duh)

 

so yes, will calibrate and try using the measure round thing, do I put that on the scale before the holding tray on top to weigh my dose?

me looey in la capasa'

love

kathy

 

You put the holding tray, calibrate and then add the " measure round thing" 

 

I started my previous reply  to you with " Lainey" as you and Lainey have the same avatar and i didnt look at the name, being so used to her picture. I was already wondering about the scales! Lol.

 

 

[[no...]]

Hi Marija I did cut and hold and then went over to micro liquid tapering, and my sxs are very severe and I've been tapering  slow but now feel that maybe I went to quickly while being very symptomatic to micro tapering. I've held a few times this last year of MT for 2 to 3 weeks each time, but to no avail, so now I'm going to hold for as long as it takes before continuing my taper as its all to much to try push it while suffering severely. The last time things were harsh I held for 3 months and what a difference!! 

 

It was a huge help and allowed me to continue my taper, unfortunately in a time of panic and anxiety I got scared by all the talk about ''tolerance'' setting in, and its best to get off the drugs asap and still cut while suffering? I wanted to see if others found it helpful to hold longer, and started a thread about it and the longer holders over 3 months or more before the next cut are doing the best on here with and either have less symptoms and are able to live life fully while tapering or no symptoms at all.

 

Based on my long hold and the experiences of other long holders I now believe that's the best route to take than to follow what seems to be becoming ''forum protocol'' and keep going no matter what.   And I took too much notice of other peoples opinions on the matter  because they were ''old hands'' at this game rather than do what's best for me out of fear. Our bodies are on along journey and like every long distance traveller they need long breaks, people who travel the world stop of in different countries for months or a lot longer each time, they don't do a different country each day unless their out to break some kind of record. 

 

And the only thing we break by going too fast is ourselves, we're not in a race and we're not going to break any healing records by ploughing on when our bodies are screaming for a longer break and bringing us to a stop trying to get the message through to us. I know no taper is guaranteed to be symptom free but at least its way better to have symptoms that you can continue living your life than living your symptoms and barely surviving. While I am grateful for all the help and advice I received on BB, at the end of the day we have to be totally responsible for ourselves and learn to use or own judgement on what's best for us as individuals. 

 

Advice is not the absolute truth but a point of reference , and we have to find out what's best for us by changing tactics at times if needed and being our own advisor, as the quote says' ''you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result'' so try another angle.  "success is a journey not a destination'' How quickly we get there is of no relevance, just that we keep going forward until we do.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

This brings to mind something Shipko said. He mentioned in his Xanax book how a person may be unable to tolerate cuts at one point and then a few months later do fine with the same cuts. He thinks it was just timing but perhaps it was actually the hold. What I have trouble with is how I find standing still to be depressing in and of itself. And, I've been nudged along by my prescriber. Changing back to prescribing by my primary next month when my psychiatrist leaves, so we'll see what her approach is. Sometimes we have no choice but to go with our prescribers pace, sadly.

 

 

 

 

Hi Gard  by standing still do you mean having to hold longer than you want to? If so here's what I said regarding that on the thread I started about longer holds

 

By making the decision to hold no matter how long it takes until I feel strong enough to continue has put a whole new perspective on things when it comes to healing and recovery in my mind. I believe that by giving myself longer recovery periods without scheduling and end time to holding will allow me to heal quicker overall than to try continue like this. Its more damage than it is help, constantly fearing how am I going to cope when I jump or even as I cut  when I'm already a grade A mess?  Common sense must  come into play not the consensus, stay in the box long enough and you run out of air and suffocate and die, get out side the of box and breathe and live 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=151007.0

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[in...]]

thanks Moodle,

 

HUGS

kat

[[Sh...]]

Hey everyone...

 

What's the average daily taper you do between 4 & 3 mg Diazepam ? I started off @ 3.98- 3.96 .. today still holding because of 3 days nausea, today not so bad... but when i wake up at night and in the morning... Do I go on at this rate 0.02/day.. till last week i used to cut and hold, coming from 10 to 4 mg.. now taking 3 mg in pill & 1 mg liquid full milk ? I so want to see myself move on.. and doing a something every day... giving myself some motivation that i'm going somewhere. I just used those benzo's for 6 months. I know i need to take things slow and so i will but need so moving forward to and not standing in place.

Thx

Sh x

[[...]]

Hey everyone...

 

What's the average daily taper you do between 4 & 3 mg Diazepam ? I started off @ 3.98- 3.96 .. today still holding because of 3 days nausea, today not so bad... but when i wake up at night and in the morning... Do I go on at this rate 0.02/day.. till last week i used to cut and hold, coming from 10 to 4 mg.. now taking 3 mg in pill & 1 mg liquid full milk ? I so want to see myself move on.. and doing a something every day... giving myself some motivation that i'm going somewhere. I just used those benzo's for 6 months. I know i need to take things slow and so i will but need so moving forward to and not standing in place.

Thx

Sh x

 

Your cut size is whatever is right for you.  It really depends on how dependent you are and how quickly you heal.  At your dose a lot of people are around .015 or .020mg cut size.  I've noticed some of the less dependent people are able to do more.

[[Sh...]]

Thanks S,

 

I'm doubting so much since i'm not used to daily tapering ... with the cut & hold i knew what to expect day 3 & dag 5 were the hardest, afterwards things got reasonably well... sometimes day 10. But since I'm going lower in amount and am a sporty type i still wanted to keep it manageable to do something during daytime... even just a walk, a run, take my bike..get outside with a friend doesn't matter... I don't know what the symptoms are during a daily taper and when I should hold. Today the nausea is better, still little soar stomach though and acids uch... so try tomorrow for 3.94 ? I started benzo in June 2015.. got a wake up call when tapering to fast...doctor gave me Xanax 0.5 uuuuuuuuuuggghhhh... used that for 4 weeks and started tapering with diazepam in December 2015... what are the daily issues that are bareable to move forward and what are the issues to take a hold ? I'm really unsure about that !

 

[[...]]

Thanks S,

 

I'm doubting so much since i'm not used to daily tapering ... with the cut & hold i knew what to expect day 3 & dag 5 were the hardest, afterwards things got reasonably well... sometimes day 10. But since I'm going lower in amount and am a sporty type i still wanted to keep it manageable to do something during daytime... even just a walk, a run, take my bike..get outside with a friend doesn't matter... I don't know what the symptoms are during a daily taper and when I should hold. Today the nausea is better, still little soar stomach though and acids uch... so try tomorrow for 3.94 ? I started benzo in June 2015.. got a wake up call when tapering to fast...doctor gave me Xanax 0.5 uuuuuuuuuuggghhhh... used that for 4 weeks and started tapering with diazepam in December 2015... what are the daily issues that are bareable to move forward and what are the issues to take a hold ? I'm really unsure about that !

 

IDK, I can only tell you subjective generalities.  You really need to learn to read yourself...and you will.  But, in general, if symptoms are not increasing you are good.  If they are remain the same or are decreasing the cut is a good one.  This can be hard to judge when symptoms cycle up and down.  There was a group in the past who made up a "three day rule": if symptoms became higher for three straight days that meant hold.  That seems like a pretty good solution to me.  A journal helps to keep track.  Just jot down symptoms each day.

[[Sh...]]

Thank you !

I already started a journal, for myself since the beginning of all this.. switch to Diazepam... marking the good things in green to keep myself motivated that some things go away for a while.

3day rule sounds good to me... maybe trying 3.94 mg tomorrow and see how that goes... when feeling ok... i can move on... or things stay or go less... only when things go worse hold... At least then i've got the idea that i'm doing something and moving forward. I knew my body well with the cut & hold but now it's like a new start for me again to understand what my body is trying to say !

 

[[My...]]

So I am cutting .003 mg every third day in a c/c/h pattern and want to know how others manage cuts so small using Gemini scale. Just want cuts to accurate as possible as it seems I can't get the scale to land on the right weight every time.  Anyone? Thanks!

Modify message

 

[[Kg...]]

My Goal use the weight that came with the scale  as your 'constant' and then weigh your pill or you can take a whole pill weigh this and use this as your 'constant' when you weigh the bits and pieces of your pill. 

[[ca...]]

Will add that when I got down to very low cuts using the scale it was very difficult to be accurate as I finally jumped at .005grams k as below that the scale was not very accurate! But you can do as kgirl says it is the best way !

[[ga...]]

 

 

Hi Gard  by standing still do you mean having to hold longer than you want to? If so here's what I said regarding that on the thread I started about longer holds

 

By making the decision to hold no matter how long it takes until I feel strong enough to continue has put a whole new perspective on things when it comes to healing and recovery in my mind. I believe that by giving myself longer recovery periods without scheduling and end time to holding will allow me to heal quicker overall than to try continue like this. Its more damage than it is help, constantly fearing how am I going to cope when I jump or even as I cut  when I'm already a grade A mess?  Common sense must  come into play not the consensus, stay in the box long enough and you run out of air and suffocate and die, get out side the of box and breathe and live 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=151007.0

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Hi Nova. Yes, by standing still I mean holding longer than I want to. Right now I am struggling with reemergence of significant neuropathy and don't know if it's from the taper or from my autoimmune disorder. A long hold won't make symptoms go away if they're not from the taper. Add a hold to all the other stuff and I begin to lose hope entirely. SG suggested slowing way down rather than holding. I lean toward that.

 

Thank you for the link to that thread. I will be over there, when I am able, to see what other people's experiences are.

 

Gard

[[My...]]

Right but it is tough to know if I am getting .049 or .05 mg in weight as an example

[[bu...]]

Right but it is tough to know if I am getting .049 or .05 mg in weight as an example

  ...and the difference (1/1000th of a mg) won't make any difference.

[[Le...]]

Hi all, I'm overdue to start a daily taper. I want to try propylene glycol as the solvent.  I can't tolerate milk, and I'm too sensitive to alcohol. And, quite frankly, the liquid valium intimidates me.

 

Should I use 1 or 2 mls of propylene glycol per mg of diazepam? I  plan on using a 1:100 ratio to reduce the chance of errors.

 

I have diazepam 2mg pills and was thinking about making a double batch at one time so I don't have to split the pill. In that case would I use 2-4 mls of propylene glycol and then top off with 200 mls water to get a 1mg/100ml ratio?

 

Finally, are mason jars ok to use for storage/mixing, and will I still need to protect the solution from light?

 

I hope this makes sense to someone. I'm anxious about starting and have lots of questions...I'm sorry   my mind isn't working too well these days.

 

Peace and healing to all

Left

[[bu...]]

1ml per mg is fine...but use 2ml per mg is you want to be extra cautious.  It really doesn't matter. 

 

If you use a 2mg pill and 2 or 4ml PG, then technically, you would add 198 or 196 ml water to make 200 ml.  Again, it doesn't really matter.

 

BTW, the Rx liquid V is basically PG and water.

[[Le...]]

Thanks Builder! My brain knows the RX liquid V is basically PG and water, but my anxiety-laden mind is scared of the other ingredients...and I've read some others had problems with it.  Stupid brain   In the end I may use the RX liquid V.  In the meantime, I  feel better knowing I have a backup plan.

 

BTW do I still need to protect the solution from light regardless of what method I use? And I'm guessing mason jars are ok to use.

 

Thanks for your help, patience, and advice.

 

[[...]]

Hi all, I'm overdue to start a daily taper. I want to try propylene glycol as the solvent.  I can't tolerate milk, and I'm too sensitive to alcohol. And, quite frankly, the liquid valium intimidates me.

 

Should I use 1 or 2 mls of propylene glycol per mg of diazepam? I  plan on using a 1:100 ratio to reduce the chance of errors.

 

I have diazepam 2mg pills and was thinking about making a double batch at one time so I don't have to split the pill. In that case would I use 2-4 mls of propylene glycol and then top off with 200 mls water to get a 1mg/100ml ratio?

 

Finally, are mason jars ok to use for storage/mixing, and will I still need to protect the solution from light?

 

I hope this makes sense to someone. I'm anxious about starting and have lots of questions...I'm sorry   my mind isn't working too well these days.

 

Peace and healing to all

Left

 

We have data that says 1ml of PG dissolves 12mg of V so it is probably fine to use 1ml for the entire mix, but 1ml is an awfully tiny amount of liquid to work with so a few more is probably the way to go.  PG is a much better solvent than 80 proof alcohol that it seems everyone ends up using.  I may stop recommending alcohol as the first choice and start suggesting PG.

 

Yes, I would use 200ml to get 1:100 ratio.  And yes, mason jars are fine.  Any jar with a wide mouth that seals well is fine.

 

Can you let us know how well the pill breaks up in PG?  I'd appreciate it.

[[Sh...]]

Hey everyone,

 

Coming from a cut & hold taper till 4 mg... felt some things on the road... mostly day 3 or 5 sometimes 10... since 5 days... i crossed over to daily tapering with 0.02. between 4 and 3 mg Diaz. Was wondering if it's normal to feel each day something... some things i recognize from before but now mostly every day there is sth. Till now it's manageable just  uncomfortable. I'm highsensitive and feeling pains more. Can I just move on with daily 0.02 cauz i'm already going much slower then before. I went from 4.5 to 4 in 18 days. So now i'm cutting in total 5 % in 10 tot 14d. I just wanna know if the symptoms are normal to feel sth every day.. and will there also be some days that go better ? I can wake up with this and the next day with totally something else.  I just need some reassurance that i'm moving in the right direction.

Thank you !

Sh x

[[Le...]]

Hi all, I'm overdue to start a daily taper. I want to try propylene glycol as the solvent.  I can't tolerate milk, and I'm too sensitive to alcohol. And, quite frankly, the liquid valium intimidates me.

 

Should I use 1 or 2 mls of propylene glycol per mg of diazepam? I  plan on using a 1:100 ratio to reduce the chance of errors.

 

I have diazepam 2mg pills and was thinking about making a double batch at one time so I don't have to split the pill. In that case would I use 2-4 mls of propylene glycol and then top off with 200 mls water to get a 1mg/100ml ratio?

 

Finally, are mason jars ok to use for storage/mixing, and will I still need to protect the solution from light?

 

I hope this makes sense to someone. I'm anxious about starting and have lots of questions...I'm sorry   my mind isn't working too well these days.

Peace and healing to all

Left

 

We have data that says 1ml of PG dissolves 12mg of V so it is probably fine to use 1ml for the entire mix, but 1ml is an awfully tiny amount of liquid to work with so a few more is probably the way to go.  PG is a much better solvent than 80 proof alcohol that it seems everyone ends up using.  I may stop recommending alcohol as the first choice and start suggesting PG.

 

Yes, I would use 200ml to get 1:100 ratio.  And yes, mason jars are fine.  Any jar with a wide mouth that seals well is fine.

 

Can you let us know how well the pill breaks up in PG?  I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks SG57   I'll use 3 mls PG for solution. I need to order PG from Amazon, and then will be good to go.

 

I'll let you know how well the PG breaks down the pill as soon as I can.

[[...]]

Hey everyone,

 

Coming from a cut & hold taper till 4 mg... felt some things on the road... mostly day 3 or 5 sometimes 10... since 5 days... i crossed over to daily tapering with 0.02. between 4 and 3 mg Diaz. Was wondering if it's normal to feel each day something... some things i recognize from before but now mostly every day there is sth. Till now it's manageable just  uncomfortable. I'm highsensitive and feeling pains more. Can I just move on with daily 0.02 cauz i'm already going much slower then before. I went from 4.5 to 4 in 18 days. So now i'm cutting in total 5 % in 10 tot 14d. I just wanna know if the symptoms are normal to feel sth every day.. and will there also be some days that go better ? I can wake up with this and the next day with totally something else.  I just need some reassurance that i'm moving in the right direction.

Thank you !

Sh x

 

Symptoms are going to come and go, but the general thing to pay attention to is whether they are trending up, down, or remaining the same.  If they are lessening or remaining the same you can continue.  If they are increasing, the cut may be too big and you need to hold or reduce the cut size.  It is a subjective evaluation and you need to learn to read what is happening.  I would not be too anxious to cut faster than .02mg a day at your dose.  Give that cut time and pay attention to symptom level.

[[...]]

We have data that says 1ml of PG dissolves 12mg of V so it is probably fine to use 1ml for the entire mix, but 1ml is an awfully tiny amount of liquid to work with so a few more is probably the way to go.  PG is a much better solvent than 80 proof alcohol that it seems everyone ends up using.  I may stop recommending alcohol as the first choice and start suggesting PG.

 

Yes, I would use 200ml to get 1:100 ratio.  And yes, mason jars are fine.  Any jar with a wide mouth that seals well is fine.

 

Can you let us know how well the pill breaks up in PG?  I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks SG57   I'll use 3 mls PG for solution. I need to order PG from Amazon, and then will be good to go.

 

I'll let you know how well the PG breaks down the pill as soon as I can.

 

Great.  It is important to know if PG makes the body of the pill disintegrate or if water is needed to do that.

 

[[Sh...]]

Thx SG.... since it s new to .me. I m insecure... it s difficult to feel day by day.. anx what to expect cauz before i was a contol freak ! Thx for the reassurance ! Grtz x