Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Mo...]]

and I don't know my Ativan dose, that is the problem, I thought the .70 scale weight was my dose...so I don't have a clue what to tell you guys....I'm in tears, and feel so stupid, I thought if you knew the weight of one of my pills you could maybe figure out the dose, but maybe not?  ONe pill weighs .060. (scale weight) ... I am cutting by scale weight off from two 0.5 Ativan tablets, and subtracting one eveytime I cut...that is all I know,,,,

 

But the weight of uour pills doesnt say anything of how much ativan is in there. Thats the problem.

Pill WEIGHT is different for each benzo , or manufacturer and the dose of ativan.

What is on your pills jar? 0.5 mgr? 1 mgr tablets?

 

It should be on your prescription bottle. How many pills do you take , of how much mgr?

 

 

 

[[St...]]

I am using 0.5 pills, not 1 mg pills....I use 2 pills to make it weigh .70 on the scale...., so I am under one mg, that's all I know....

 

[[St...]]

I am not taking 2 whole pills anymore....I have been cutting off from one of those 0.5 pills, and adding it to the other 0,5 pill to come up with .70 weight , we have been doing this right along, and it has seemed to work, but now I am getting hit with symptoms...so wanted to start LT, I am afraid that doing .003 a day like Builder suggested would be an updose for me....I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult...just don't know how to figure out the dose....

[[bu...]]

I am not taking 2 whole pills anymore....I have been cutting off from one of those 0.5 pills, and adding it to the other 0,5 pill to come up with .70 weight , we have been doing this right along, and it has seemed to work, but now I am getting hit with symptoms...so wanted to start LT, I am afraid that doing .003 a day like Builder suggested would be an updose for me....I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult...just don't know how to figure out the dose....

  But you said your tablets weigh .060.  I guess that means .060g, or 60mg...that seems about right.  So then 2 tablets would be .12g, or 120mg.

 

If your 2 tablets only weigh a total of .12g, then you can not be taking .70g.

 

I'm not trying to embarass you or criticize you, but I'm really trying to find out what your dose is.  I suspect your actually taking .07g.  If that's correct, your dose of ativan is about .58mg

[[St...]]

I think you are right....so can we go from here?

[[St...]]

Builder, I just want to say thank you for your patience with me, I know you are not trying to embarrass me...I so appreciate what you are doing for me, I am just having a kind of bad day anyway, not anything to do with this....I am sorta getting what you are saying, and I think you are right....so just wanted to say that.......

[[bu...]]

I think you are right....so can we go from here?

  OK, here we go...

 

You will need a 1ml and a 10ml oral syringe (local pharmacy or Amazon) a reclaimed glass jar with a gasketed, screw top ( pickles, olives, salad dressing, etc.) vodka and water.

 

Dissolve 2 tablets (1mg) in 2ml vodka, and add 98 ml water.  You now have 100ml solution, each ml contains .001mg. 

 

Since your probably at about .58mg/day, we'll round that up to .6mg/day.  And we'll start you at .002/day cuts.  That's .014/week,  2.3% per week.

 

day 1 60ml (.6mg)

day 2 59.8ml (.598mg)

day 3 59.6ml (.596mg)

day 4 59.4ml (.594mg)

etc...

 

You can save the left over liquid each day and use it as part of the next day.

 

Once you get the hang of it, you can start making bigger batches...20 tablets (10mg), 20ml vodka, and 980ml water.  Then you want have to make your liquid every day.

[[St...]]

Awesome!!!!!  Thank you sooooo much!  I will be doing it soon after I hold for a bit to get more stable.....You have been a great help! 

[[bu...]]

I just corrected my numbers...make sure you use the numbers I just put up.

[[St...]]

Gotcha Builder....changed the numbers....

[[Ri...]]

Can someone please  help me put together a daily Taper for .25mg xanax.  My benzo brain can not do math right now.

[[my...]]

Hi Deep,

 

I read your post to SG and his reply and then your response.  First, I want to say that I agree with SG about so many things but these above all:  you should absolutely hold if you are going through a stressful situation -- and not only are you living with stress in your current life but are dealing with a very real PTSD which is the terrible loss of both your mother and your son. And without having had adequate time and space to grieve their loss.  More than most people could handle under ideal circumstances, much less while tapering off Klonopin!  I also agree that the rhythm theory is just that, a theory.  When I mentioned it to my psychiatrist/neurologist it made no sense to her.  She very much believes in holds, in overall reductions and in not suffering.  You have had success.  You can resume tapering when you feel stronger and more able to do so.  We all get so many opinions from BB's..many of whom we feel have become our friends during this long process.  But only you can actually know how you are feeling and determine the best course for yourself.

 

Sometimes I kick myself for holding for four months this past summer but you know what?  It allowed me to stabilize, to spend a mostly enjoyable three weeks in the mountains with my husband and aunt and uncle, and then to be completely available and well enough to fly north to support our kids when our precious 3 year old grand daughter needed to have surgery for a serious illness.  None of this would have been possible if I had been actively tapering.  So do I wish I was further along in my taper?  Sure.  But do I regret holding for that period of time for the above reasons?  Not one bit.  In fact, I believe the hold allowed me to then proceed with my taper as I have done since September. 

 

All this to say that I hope you will listen to your instincts, if not your body - and do what is in the best interest of your health.

 

Mana 

[[Mo...]]

Can someone please  help me put together a daily Taper for .25mg xanax.  My benzo brain can not do math right now.

 

Riddles,

How are you cutting?

Are you looking into a daily taper? How did you cut from 0.5 to 0.25 mgr?

 

People can help you with the math side of things but can not exactly tell you how much to cut or how fast... Could you share how much you will want to cut per month, or two weeks, perhaps?

 

 

 

 

[[ba...]]

I posted on the 16th because a pharmacist had told me liquid valium for a daily/MT wasn't available in Ontario; with the help of an Ontario, Canada BBer who told me they'd been able to get it, I looked further into the situation, and found several pharmacies that have it. HUH . Good to know, though.

[[Ri...]]

Moodie

 

I cut directly from .50 mg to .25mg (before I knew better) it has taken almost 4 months to stabilize from that.  I would like to taper 10 % per month.

 

Thank You

[[St...]]

Builder:  Just one more question....someone is going to print out a spreadsheet for me and she wants to know how many tenths of a  ml I am going down a day....I know .002 mgs, is it the same in mls?  Thanks!!  Would .02 be right? 

 

[[my...]]

Deep and all,

Just one clarification re: the rhythm theory....I do think it helps us psychologically to have a plan.  For example, if cutting a certain amount on a regular basis gives us a measure of comfort within a taper experience that is so unpredictable in terms of sxs, then that rhythm is meaningful.  Currently, for me, I am cutting 5% every ten days.  Even though I get nervous before the cut, or may have increased sxs for a number of days during that period, I do derive comfort from the sense of forward progress. 

 

But if the pace is too much, or the amount we are cutting (this can apply easily to a MT as well) then it is important to slow down or hold - in your case, perhaps for a while.  Hope that makes sense. 

 

Mana

[[Ma...]]

Life is going to mess with dosing, that's for sure.  We sleep longer than planned.  Our sleep schedule shifts.  We forget to dose.  All kinds of things happen and you can only do your best to dose on time.  I think the idea that each hour is 4.2% of the day is a good way to look at dosing.  It makes a lot of sense the more I think about it.  So, while it is not ideal to have a nine hour gap between doses when you need six, the way to best compensate is to take extra prior to the nine hours.  I think the amount of extra is best figured by assuming each hour requires 4.2% of your daily dose.  If you do this you should not need extra in the morning.  There might be some temporary symptoms from the abrupt switch, but this should go away since you are dosing the same amount, just shifted.  I never had to deal with this as I was always able to take two doses 12 hours apart.

I never forget to dose. ID WD and how quick I feel cuts won't allow that. The only time I did was when I was first on V. I am not feeling well. I have not been feeling my cuts for awhile and I was doing pretty well on Mon. Maybe my body is still adjusting or maybe I need to dose more my last dose. Maybe dosing 3x a day is better for me and I just have to deal with ID WD. It's was definitely tolerable before. I am still having it with the 4 doses. My body is also agitated and I feel worse since adding a fourth dose. I know I am overreacting, but it's freaking me out that I haven't "stabilized" yet. I also am feeling down and just sick of trying to figure out what to do. I took 5mgs when I woke up then I will take 4 soon and then another 4 and then 6. That was my plan. I also was thinking maybe I should go back to 3 bigger doses. I hate that I become paranoid like this. I am trying to not let paranoia make me just go back to what I was doing without being sure. I take my next dose in a hour and a half and I am not sure what to do. I was really excited becasue I had planned on getting below 20mgs this week. To me that is a big milestone. I know it will just happen another day. I am not listening to the benzo lies that say I won't feel better and I messed up by changing all my doses at once. Advice on what to do and if it makes sense that my body is not stable from the chaninging of doses would be greatly appreciated. I am glad you were always able dose twice a day evenly and that most seem to do the same. Thank you!

[[...]]

Life is going to mess with dosing, that's for sure.  We sleep longer than planned.  Our sleep schedule shifts.  We forget to dose.  All kinds of things happen and you can only do your best to dose on time.  I think the idea that each hour is 4.2% of the day is a good way to look at dosing.  It makes a lot of sense the more I think about it.  So, while it is not ideal to have a nine hour gap between doses when you need six, the way to best compensate is to take extra prior to the nine hours.  I think the amount of extra is best figured by assuming each hour requires 4.2% of your daily dose.  If you do this you should not need extra in the morning.  There might be some temporary symptoms from the abrupt switch, but this should go away since you are dosing the same amount, just shifted.  I never had to deal with this as I was always able to take two doses 12 hours apart.

I never forget to dose. ID WD and how quick I feel cuts won't allow that. The only time I did was when I was first on V. I am not feeling well. I have not been feeling my cuts for awhile and I was doing pretty well on Mon. Maybe my body is still adjusting or maybe I need to dose more my last dose. Maybe dosing 3x a day is better for me and I just have to deal with ID WD. It's was definitely tolerable before. I am still having it with the 4 doses. My body is also agitated and I feel worse since adding a fourth dose. I know I am overreacting, but it's freaking me out that I haven't "stabilized" yet. I also am feeling down and just sick of trying to figure out what to do. I took 5mgs when I woke up then I will take 4 soon and then another 4 and then 6. That was my plan. I also was thinking maybe I should go back to 3 bigger doses. I hate that I become paranoid like this. I am trying to not let paranoia make me just go back to what I was doing without being sure. I take my next dose in a hour and a half and I am not sure what to do. I was really excited becasue I had planned on getting below 20mgs this week. To me that is a big milestone. I know it will just happen another day. I am not listening to the benzo lies that say I won't feel better and I messed up by changing all my doses at once. Advice on what to do and if it makes sense that my body is not stable from the chaninging of doses would be greatly appreciated. I am glad you were always able dose twice a day evenly and that most seem to do the same. Thank you!

 

How many days has it been?  It makes sense that four doses should either improve things or at least not make things worse, so it is disappointing to feel worse I'm sure.  I'd give it time to see if it settles out to something better.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I changed to four doses Tuesday. It is disappointing. I have calmed down. I haven't had that anxious and paranoia over my taper in awhile. I was expecting things to be better or at the very least not worse by now, as you said. Today will be the first day I don't dose 5mgs 4X. Do you think slowly increasing my last dose is a good idea? The other option is to go back to 3 doses. I am, of course, going to hold until I stabilize. I just usually would have already. In the past when changing all doses it has taken longer than slowly changing them to stabilize. My body doesn't like a lot of change at once. Thank you!!!

[[...]]

SG,

I changed to four doses Tuesday. It is disappointing. I have calmed down. I haven't had that anxious and paranoia over my taper in awhile. I was expecting things to be better or at the very least not worse by now, as you said. Today will be the first day I don't dose 5mgs 4X. Do you think slowly increasing my last dose is a good idea? The other option is to go back to 3 doses. I am, of course, going to hold until I stabilize. I just usually would have already. In the past when changing all doses it has taken longer than slowly changing them to stabilize. My body doesn't like a lot of change at once. Thank you!!!

 

From a purely blood level standpoint I think we can be confident that going from three to four doses has cut down on peaks and filled in valleys.  This improves and steadies things.  The amount in your blood is less varied.  There is no cutting going on so what else is going on that makes you feel bad?  I wish I knew.  I think it will settle down with time.

 

I think it is a good idea to raise the night dose to 7.5mg since that is how much you need for the nine hours between doses.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

Thank you! I appreciate your help a lot. My pdoc thinks K and V have the same half life, doesn't believe in benzo wd syndrome, and is impossible to get in touch with anyway. I often feel very alone and confused especially since I am such an ultra rapid metabolizer. You made me feel a lot better. I don't know what is going on either. I think I may just be in a little wave where I am feeling down and emotional. My period is also late...maybe that's not helping. I think I am just taking longer to adjust to the switch in doses. I am sure I will stabilize soon. I just got freaked out and scared. I haven't felt that way in awhile. The other thing I was (over)thinking is that maybe my blood levels were more even with 3 doses becasue I could dose closer to every 8 hours than every 6 or 5. Do you think that could make more sense? Today so far I took 5mgs when I woke up and then my second dose was 4mgs. Then I plan to take 4mgs next dose and 7 the last dose. Then if that goes well I could add another .5mgs to my last dose. Yesterday you suggested 7.5mgs as the last dose. I am hoping that helps. It's crazy how one day can be so different than the next while tapering. I hope you are seeing improvement and feeling better!

[Guest [Ma...]]

SG, Builder, all with experience,

I need help.

 

 

This is my 3rd attempt at tapering but will fast forward to the fall of 2015.

 

Following a compounding Xanax capsule error, in the fall of 2015, a dropped decimal cut my X dose 98% instead of 2.5%, I eventually fully crossed and "stabilized" on 7 mg of V.

Although symptomatic, but functional, I held the 7 mg for 40 days before trying a .5 mg cut and hold. I held for 14 days then cut .25 mg.

Held for 16 days and couid not recover.

I updosed back to 6.5. I've been holding that dosage since 1/28, experienced a few good days followed by many horrific days, particularly pre and post period. 

 

My goal is to "stabilize" to move forward with a liquid MT. I have the prescription for liquid V 5 mg/5 ml.

How do I "stabilize" to be able to begin?

Continue holding?

Updose back to 7 mg?

 

Marija

 

 

[[...]]

SG,

Thank you! I appreciate your help a lot. My pdoc thinks K and V have the same half life, doesn't believe in benzo wd syndrome, and is impossible to get in touch with anyway. I often feel very alone and confused especially since I am such an ultra rapid metabolizer. You made me feel a lot better. I don't know what is going on either. I think I may just be in a little wave where I am feeling down and emotional. My period is also late...maybe that's not helping. I think I am just taking longer to adjust to the switch in doses. I am sure I will stabilize soon. I just got freaked out and scared. I haven't felt that way in awhile. The other thing I was (over)thinking is that maybe my blood levels were more even with 3 doses becasue I could dose closer to every 8 hours than every 6 or 5. Do you think that could make more sense? Today so far I took 5mgs when I woke up and then my second dose was 4mgs. Then I plan to take 4mgs next dose and 7 the last dose. Then if that goes well I could add another .5mgs to my last dose. Yesterday you suggested 7.5mgs as the last dose. I am hoping that helps. It's crazy how one day can be so different than the next while tapering. I hope you are seeing improvement and feeling better!

 

No, I think four doses would be more even since you don't have to span as many hours.  The peak right after the dose will be lower and the valley right before the next dose will be higher.  Your dosing today is close to what I think will keep things most even (4.17, 4.17, 4.17, 7.5).

[[Ma...]]

SG,

 

That makes sense. You always do. Sometimes the way my body works makes no sense to me. I will stick with the the 4 doses and get the last one to 7.5mgs and hopefully that will help. I will just hold until I stabilize. My mind just goes crazy places when things don't go as I expected. I am sure I will stabilize soon. Thanks again for all your help!!!