Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[la...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I have started to daily micro taper with liquid librium made from my pharmacy.

I have been doing .005 a day since this past Wednesday (when I started) and am thinking about taking it by .001??

 

I don't feel well and have been disabled for 4 months now...I want my life back desperately.

 

I am at .5 equivalent or a little under right now with the librium.. so would .001 be reasonable? I have seen it written here a lot.

 

Thanks!

 

I can't make out what your numbers mean.  What dose?  What cut size?

 

I upped my dose to 25 mg of librium for two weeks.

I got my liquid  L which is 1mg/ml

Started taking off .005 mg a day of my total dose.

Not feeling well and have seen a lot of people say cutting .001 mg a day helped.

I still am unable to drive or really do anything..

[[...]]

I can't make out what your numbers mean.  What dose?  What cut size?

I upped my dose to 25 mg of librium for two weeks.

I got my liquid  L which is 1mg/ml

Started taking off .005 mg a day of my total dose.

Not feeling well and have seen a lot of people say cutting .001 mg a day helped.

I still am unable to drive or really do anything..

 

Did the cutting increase symptoms?

 

.005mg Librium is a tiny tiny cut.  It is like .002mg V.  Could it have been .050mg L?

[[la...]]

No..it is .005.

 

Yeah, I guess they have just been the same.

I need to quit reading on here so much.

I want to stay at that same percentage but am worried it will increase in like 14 days..

ahhh stress. 

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

I have to believe if you have held for three months that you have gotten something out of it.  Your body is always working to set things right.

 

Daily tapers are not difficult to begin.  You've got liquid V.  That's a great start. All you need are a 1ml and a 10ml syringe and some old jars in your kitchen to begin.  You don't need a spreadsheet.  A spiral notebook is fine.

 

How much do you dose with pills and liquid?  How many doses a day?

  ...and the determination to begin!

[[ga...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I have started to daily micro taper with liquid librium made from my pharmacy.

I have been doing .005 a day since this past Wednesday (when I started) and am thinking about taking it by .001??

 

I don't feel well and have been disabled for 4 months now...I want my life back desperately.

 

I am at .5 equivalent or a little under right now with the librium.. so would .001 be reasonable? I have seen it written here a lot.

 

Thanks!

 

I can't make out what your numbers mean.  What dose?  What cut size?

 

I upped my dose to 25 mg of librium for two weeks.

I got my liquid  L which is 1mg/ml

Started taking off .005 mg a day of my total dose.

Not feeling well and have seen a lot of people say cutting .001 mg a day helped.

I still am unable to drive or really do anything..

 

I dissolve my own L and use it within 24 hours because we had a discussion awhile back that L is not very stable as a liquid. I believe it starts to convert to its metabolites which are still benzos but have different effects than the original medication. It's been a long time since this discussion, so I may be getting the details wrong. And it may be the pharmacy has some way of stabilizing L. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Also, when I switched to L, I found that it took awhile to feel the effects of the cuts compared to X and to recover from mistakes compared to X.

 

Sorry, I'm too cog-fogged to comment on numbers and percentages.

[[la...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I have started to daily micro taper with liquid librium made from my pharmacy.

I have been doing .005 a day since this past Wednesday (when I started) and am thinking about taking it by .001??

 

I don't feel well and have been disabled for 4 months now...I want my life back desperately.

 

I am at .5 equivalent or a little under right now with the librium.. so would .001 be reasonable? I have seen it written here a lot.

 

Thanks!

 

I can't make out what your numbers mean.  What dose?  What cut size?

 

I upped my dose to 25 mg of librium for two weeks.

I got my liquid  L which is 1mg/ml

Started taking off .005 mg a day of my total dose.

Not feeling well and have seen a lot of people say cutting .001 mg a day helped.

I still am unable to drive or really do anything..

 

I dissolve my own L and use it within 24 hours because we had a discussion awhile back that L is not very stable as a liquid. I believe it starts to convert to its metabolites which are still benzos but have different effects than the original medication. It's been a long time since this discussion, so I may be getting the details wrong. And it may be the pharmacy has some way of stabilizing L. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Also, when I switched to L, I found that it took awhile to feel the effects of the cuts compared to X and to recover from mistakes compared to X.

 

Sorry, I'm too cog-fogged to comment on numbers and percentages.

 

No no you're fine! The pharmacist did his research and made it into a liquid. I trust him..

 

I am probably still feeling the effects of coming off of Klonopin and Xanax sine I was never tapered off. Wouldn't you think?

 

[[Ma...]]

Gard,

I just wanted to say hi and I hope everything is going ok. I am thinking of you and wishing you to feel better. I also hope the appt with your PCP goes well!

 

XO Maya 

[[ga...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I have started to daily micro taper with liquid librium made from my pharmacy.

I have been doing .005 a day since this past Wednesday (when I started) and am thinking about taking it by .001??

 

I don't feel well and have been disabled for 4 months now...I want my life back desperately.

 

I am at .5 equivalent or a little under right now with the librium.. so would .001 be reasonable? I have seen it written here a lot.

 

Thanks!

 

I can't make out what your numbers mean.  What dose?  What cut size?

 

I upped my dose to 25 mg of librium for two weeks.

I got my liquid  L which is 1mg/ml

Started taking off .005 mg a day of my total dose.

Not feeling well and have seen a lot of people say cutting .001 mg a day helped.

I still am unable to drive or really do anything..

 

I dissolve my own L and use it within 24 hours because we had a discussion awhile back that L is not very stable as a liquid. I believe it starts to convert to its metabolites which are still benzos but have different effects than the original medication. It's been a long time since this discussion, so I may be getting the details wrong. And it may be the pharmacy has some way of stabilizing L. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Also, when I switched to L, I found that it took awhile to feel the effects of the cuts compared to X and to recover from mistakes compared to X.

 

Sorry, I'm too cog-fogged to comment on numbers and percentages.

 

No no you're fine! The pharmacist did his research and made it into a liquid. I trust him..

 

I am probably still feeling the effects of coming off of Klonopin and Xanax sine I was never tapered off. Wouldn't you think?

 

Oh, yes. When I made the switch from X to L, even though I did it slowly, I still felt it quite a bit. I wonder if your body needs a break from tapering or at least a BIG slow down for awhile.

 

I still have a recollection of reading a study that showed L slowly converts to its metabolites in some liquids, but I can't remember where. However, we who have had the L discussions here have found that "reliable sources" often contradict each other when it comes to L.   

 

Will be interested to see your progress. Not many other L people around here!

[[ga...]]

Gard,

I just wanted to say hi and I hope everything is going ok. I am thinking of you and wishing you to feel better. I also hope the appt with your PCP goes well!

 

XO Maya 

 

Hi Maya. Thanks! Had a really rough weekend but a bit better today. Hope you're doing well!

[[la...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I have started to daily micro taper with liquid librium made from my pharmacy.

I have been doing .005 a day since this past Wednesday (when I started) and am thinking about taking it by .001??

 

I don't feel well and have been disabled for 4 months now...I want my life back desperately.

 

I am at .5 equivalent or a little under right now with the librium.. so would .001 be reasonable? I have seen it written here a lot.

 

Thanks!

 

I can't make out what your numbers mean.  What dose?  What cut size?

 

I upped my dose to 25 mg of librium for two weeks.

I got my liquid  L which is 1mg/ml

Started taking off .005 mg a day of my total dose.

Not feeling well and have seen a lot of people say cutting .001 mg a day helped.

I still am unable to drive or really do anything..

 

I dissolve my own L and use it within 24 hours because we had a discussion awhile back that L is not very stable as a liquid. I believe it starts to convert to its metabolites which are still benzos but have different effects than the original medication. It's been a long time since this discussion, so I may be getting the details wrong. And it may be the pharmacy has some way of stabilizing L. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Also, when I switched to L, I found that it took awhile to feel the effects of the cuts compared to X and to recover from mistakes compared to X.

 

Sorry, I'm too cog-fogged to comment on numbers and percentages.

 

No no you're fine! The pharmacist did his research and made it into a liquid. I trust him..

 

I am probably still feeling the effects of coming off of Klonopin and Xanax sine I was never tapered off. Wouldn't you think?

 

Oh, yes. When I made the switch from X to L, even though I did it slowly, I still felt it quite a bit. I wonder if your body needs a break from tapering or at least a BIG slow down for awhile.

 

I still have a recollection of reading a study that showed L slowly converts to its metabolites in some liquids, but I can't remember where. However, we who have had the L discussions here have found that "reliable sources" often contradict each other when it comes to L.   

 

Will be interested to see your progress. Not many other L people around here!

 

I just asked my mother and she had said my pharmacist researched it for a day before filling my prescription. I'm sure he has the correct sources... Yes maybe I do need a break. I'll just hold where I currently and let my brain catch up.. I pray you find healing! Keep in contact...

[[my...]]

I would like to make this transition as simple as possible.  In order to continue with a 15% a month reduction, I would, if I were to dry cut, MT .001g per day from my current dose with holds as needed, correct?

 

And if I go with a liquid taper, I should go with .0025mg or 1/2 ml a day, right?  The cut in ml depends on the amount of liquid in the bottle.  If I use my .5 mg pills..it comes out to an uneven number with 60 ml (10 ml vodka and 50 ml water).  Is there a way to do 50 ml liquid?  Or to mix 100ml liquid and pour it into two 60 ml bottles for convenience? (Travel, TSA, etc.). Would it be easier to have my doctor write a Rx for 1 mg pills of K?  She'll do whatever I ask.

 

Also, re travel...I asked whether I need a Rx for the liquified K to pass TSA.  Even in a 60 ml bottle which seems to be under the 2 - or is it 2.5. oz - max?

 

Thanks....just trying to clarify the two options.

 

Mana

 

[[...]]

I would like to make this transition as simple as possible.  In order to continue with a 15% a month reduction, I would, if I were to dry cut, MT .001g per day from my current dose with holds as needed, correct?

 

And if I go with a liquid taper, I should go with .0025mg or 1/2 ml a day, right?  The cut in ml depends on the amount of liquid in the bottle.  If I use my .5 mg pills..it comes out to an uneven number with 60 ml (10 ml vodka and 50 ml water).  Is there a way to do 50 ml liquid?  Or to mix 100ml liquid and pour it into two 60 ml bottles for convenience? (Travel, TSA, etc.). Would it be easier to have my doctor write a Rx for 1 mg pills of K?  She'll do whatever I ask.

 

Also, re travel...I asked whether I need a Rx for the liquified K to pass TSA.  Even in a 60 ml bottle which seems to be under the 2 - or is it 2.5. oz - max?

 

Thanks....just trying to clarify the two options.

 

Mana

 

15% a month is .0025mg a day.  We went through this yesterday, but the scale method can't quite cut that small so you need to insert a hold day every six days.

 

With the liquid, just combine the two liquids so that the total comes out to the amount you want.  But if you want to use the alcohol/water method I would not use 50ml for a .5mg pill.  I'd use 100ml.  The reason is that water does not dissolve benzos well so you need more of it to ensure it stays dissolved.

[[bu...]]

I would like to make this transition as simple as possible.  In order to continue with a 15% a month reduction, I would, if I were to dry cut, MT .001g per day from my current dose with holds as needed, correct?

 

And if I go with a liquid taper, I should go with .0025mg or 1/2 ml a day, right?  The cut in ml depends on the amount of liquid in the bottle.  If I use my .5 mg pills..it comes out to an uneven number with 60 ml (10 ml vodka and 50 ml water).  Is there a way to do 50 ml liquid? Or to mix 100ml liquid and pour it into two 60 ml bottles for convenience? (Travel, TSA, etc.). Would it be easier to have my doctor write a Rx for 1 mg pills of K?  She'll do whatever I ask.

 

Also, re travel...I asked whether I need a Rx for the liquified K to pass TSA.  Even in a 60 ml bottle which seems to be under the 2 - or is it 2.5. oz - max?

 

Thanks....just trying to clarify the two options.

 

Mana

  Of course.  10ml vodka and 40ml water = 50ml solution, each ml contains .01mg.

[[my...]]

Thank you!!  OK....think we're almost there  .....so the .01mg is equal to ?  I believe we agreed yesterday that I would need to reduce  1/2 ml per day.  Just checking to make sure I have it right.  BTW, we ordered the syringes from Amazon.  Are they marked for 1/2 ml increments?

[[bu...]]

Thank you!!  OK....think we're almost there  .....so the .01mg is equal to ?  I believe we agreed yesterday that I would need to reduce  1/2 ml per day.  Just checking to make sure I have it right.  BTW, we ordered the syringes from Amazon.  Are they marked for 1/2 ml increments?

 

each ml contains .01mg.

  or...  .01mg = 1ml.

[[my...]]

Thanks, builder 

[[Ul...]]

 

I agree with SG. Who cares how slow a person goes as long as you're "going"? Heck, I'd give my left...arm...if I could cut 5% a month! I'm not sure how long you've been on K or how much, but just do what SG recommends; go with what works, you can always adjust. I was on 5-6mg/day of K for 21+ yrs (started my 22nd year recently) before I had a clue what a taper is. It's now about 11 months later and I can barely cut a little, much less any, due to so many other problems that the K caused me. I've gotten over blaming docs etc., and now I just deal and move on. I might be able to cut a couple days here and there, but then have to hold. I had to hold almost two full months before I felt decent enough to move on. Then, problems nailed me again. So, if you're at 1.76 and making any headway at all in the right direction, then count blessings and go on with life. The finish line will show up eventually, but I know that the goal isn't just to "finish", but to "finish feeling good" without having many months of recovery after getting OFF the stuff!! You'll get there. Believe and keep the faith!!

 

Jeff

 

Hi, Jeff! Always good to see you. I'm about to experience the big prescriber switch (my prescriber is leaving) and am hoping it goes better for me than it did for you! Gosh, that was scary!

 

I'm glad that you can make little cuts now and then. Any movement is something to celebrate! I got totally stuck and crossed to L and am able to cut again. It is one more step toward victory over these nasty drugs! We can do this!

 

Gard

 

Hey Gard!! Sorry to reply so late. Just don't get on here a whole lot. Kinda depresses me, to be honest. Anyhoo, so glad to hear that you're still fighting the good fight. You're a super encourager too. Just wanted to say that we all appreciate you, and good luck with the new prescriber. I know that can be a challenge. Keep on a rockin'!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hugs,

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

SG  sure could use you input on this you had said i am cutting 6.5% a month and to me that seems like not enough at my dose of 1.76 mgs..i have been reading on the k thread and it seems this is really slow and drawing things out longer than needed and since i have not tried a larger cut with the c/c/h taper than .001gms alternating doses..i dont know that i cant up my game..cause from what i am reading it gets really slow when you get like to less than .25mgs..and i dont want that to happen it will take me yrs if that happens..

 

would love your input into this and a new taper plan if you think i can do it..will be waiting before i cut the next 3 days of my pills as i am afraid from my health anxiety of a heart attack, stoke or seizure but i need to get over that and try and move on..

 

i posted the question on the k thread but also would love your input also and what kind of plan you could help me with that would get me lower quicker..before i have to go even slower than i already am..i want to not be really old before i heal and have a life for the first time since i was 22..

 

thanks for always helping me

 

deep

 

I don't think taper rate is something you can speed up.  All you can do is find what your body can handle and stay within that limit.  I agree 6.5% a month is slow, but I would not advise pushing it.  It's what you can handle.  Instead I'd tell you to focus on feeling as well as possible so the length of the taper does not matter.  Take a month off.  Cut way smaller.  Do whatever it takes to feel well.  Focus on life, not the taper.  You'll still get there.  Throw away the calendar and try to wrap your head around the goal of always feeling well, rather than getting to zero.  Beyond that, I think you could help yourself by switching to .5mg pills, or better yet, switching to liquid.  As your dose gets lower accurate dosing matters more.  I wouldn't blame you if you rejected this advice, but I think it is the right approach to these drugs.

 

I agree with SG. Who cares how slow a person goes as long as you're "going"? Heck, I'd give my left...arm...if I could cut 5% a month! I'm not sure how long you've been on K or how much, but just do what SG recommends; go with what works, you can always adjust. I was on 5-6mg/day of K for 21+ yrs (started my 22nd year recently) before I had a clue what a taper is. It's now about 11 months later and I can barely cut a little, much less any, due to so many other problems that the K caused me. I've gotten over blaming docs etc., and now I just deal and move on. I might be able to cut a couple days here and there, but then have to hold. I had to hold almost two full months before I felt decent enough to move on. Then, problems nailed me again. So, if you're at 1.76 and making any headway at all in the right direction, then count blessings and go on with life. The finish line will show up eventually, but I know that the goal isn't just to "finish", but to "finish feeling good" without having many months of recovery after getting OFF the stuff!! You'll get there. Believe and keep the faith!!

 

Jeff

 

 

Jeff,

 

sounds like you are on a really good path. i am really jealous of all you slow taperers. i still have severe head symptoms at 46 months out. the bizarre thing is last night i didn't think i was going to make it as the wave was so intense i couldn't even tell if i was in a wave but tonight i am feeling so much more towards the normal. i am one of the more brutal cold turkey's from K. God how i wish i did it differently. i say this pretty frequently on this thread so don't mind me.  anyway, you are on the right track.

 

Pretty

 

That's encouraging, Pretty!! Man, you've really been through it. Thanks so much for your input. And yep, slow is the only name of my game. If I were going any slower I'd be in reverse. All those years on benzos etc are killer on the WHOLE body, huh? I've got so many body systems out of whack that it's not even funny, but we'll all just forge ahead. I'm prayin' for ya!!! You've been through enough and deserve a fantastic and blessed life.

 

Catch ya later!

 

Jeff

[[ba...]]

Calling any/all Canadians (eh!)-I'm getting organized from a transition from cut & hold tapering of valium to a daily/MT. I know that pharma grade liquid valium is available in Australia and the U.S. for example, but was told by my nice/independent pharmacist today that's not the case in Canada (well, Ontario, anyway.)

 

I trust the guy, but frankly, the most accurate benzo info seems to be on BB-no surprise-so I just thought I'd appeal to any Canucks on here who might know to either confirm or refute this discovery. Any replies much appreciated, thanks a ton [of snow ]!!

 

[[ga...]]

 

I agree with SG. Who cares how slow a person goes as long as you're "going"? Heck, I'd give my left...arm...if I could cut 5% a month! I'm not sure how long you've been on K or how much, but just do what SG recommends; go with what works, you can always adjust. I was on 5-6mg/day of K for 21+ yrs (started my 22nd year recently) before I had a clue what a taper is. It's now about 11 months later and I can barely cut a little, much less any, due to so many other problems that the K caused me. I've gotten over blaming docs etc., and now I just deal and move on. I might be able to cut a couple days here and there, but then have to hold. I had to hold almost two full months before I felt decent enough to move on. Then, problems nailed me again. So, if you're at 1.76 and making any headway at all in the right direction, then count blessings and go on with life. The finish line will show up eventually, but I know that the goal isn't just to "finish", but to "finish feeling good" without having many months of recovery after getting OFF the stuff!! You'll get there. Believe and keep the faith!!

 

Jeff

 

Hi, Jeff! Always good to see you. I'm about to experience the big prescriber switch (my prescriber is leaving) and am hoping it goes better for me than it did for you! Gosh, that was scary!

 

I'm glad that you can make little cuts now and then. Any movement is something to celebrate! I got totally stuck and crossed to L and am able to cut again. It is one more step toward victory over these nasty drugs! We can do this!

 

Gard

 

Hey Gard!! Sorry to reply so late. Just don't get on here a whole lot. Kinda depresses me, to be honest. Anyhoo, so glad to hear that you're still fighting the good fight. You're a super encourager too. Just wanted to say that we all appreciate you, and good luck with the new prescriber. I know that can be a challenge. Keep on a rockin'!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hugs,

 

Jeff

 

Hey, Jeff, I do know the feeling. I take breaks, too. Sometimes long, sometimes short. And sometimes (often) I don't even remember what I posted so don't worry about needing to apologize for the delay! I had already spaced it out.

 

Gard

[[St...]]

Ok, I am back here again...about a month ago I was here asking about a dry taper daily, I have tried cutting .001 every 7 days and I am getting slammed yet...do you think a LT would help this, I am willing to try it...can you LT that small? Or would I have to go larger...I am holding for a couple of weeks right now...trying to get a little more stable.....tapering .001 off 0.5 tablets, (10 weigh about 0,062)  dosing four times a day...now at .70g weight on scale...thanks!!!

 

[[bu...]]

Ok, I am back here again...about a month ago I was here asking about a dry taper daily, I have tried cutting .001 every 7 days and I am getting slammed yet...do you think a LT would help this, I am willing to try it...can you LT that small? Or would I have to go larger...I am holding for a couple of weeks right now...trying to get a little more stable.....tapering .001 off 0.5 tablets, (10 weigh about 0,062)  dosing four times a day...now at .70g weight on scale...thanks!!!

  Yes, a LT would almost certainly be better, and yes, you cut/dose in decrements of .001mg or even smaller.

[[St...]]

Thank you builder for your reply...I would like to cut .001g a week to start with.  Do you give instructions on how to do that?  I'm clueless when it comes to math and figuring....

[[St...]]

I do have concerns about what happens when I finally jump...when the V stored in my body runs out, will I get slammed? Am I prolonging damage to my brain by taking V for even longer (ironic considering how long I've been on the stuff!)? Am I really going to be able to function without Benzos after taking them for so long? Will / can my brain heal at my age? But, I also realized I that due to my health issues I might not be able to get off the Benzos any other way and the Benzos were causing me problems so I decided that if there was a way to do it that keeps my life manageable and my health relatively stable, then I'd try it and keep hanging onto the hope that this way really is going to work out for me in the end.

 

Thanks to all you BBs who blazed the path, shared your stories, helped me do the math and continue to support and inspire me!

 

Mo

 

Glad to hear your taper is working out.

 

If you keep yourself feeling well like you have, when you get to zero you will be able to step off and you will continue to feel as you felt while tapering, getting slowly better with time.

 

When you taper the concentration of receptors is increased each day, each month.  Things are being put back to normal.  To me this says the direction is toward less dependency, not more.  So to me it does not make sense that we become more dependent with long tapers.  I think dependency would increase with holding for a long time, but not when tapering.  I think dependency is going down even though the drug is still present.  The damage is lessening and this is what dependency is - damage.

 

How do you feel now?  Are you functioning without benzos?  These drugs stop working within months are starting them so I think all of us have been "functioning without benzos" for most of the time we used them.  Their sole purpose quickly becomes keeping us out of withdrawal.

 

You already have proof of healing.  Your dose is 80% lower and you feel pretty good.  There is no better definition of healing.  That would not happen without your brain adding back receptors.  You're healing just fine.

 

I'm a little behind because of my birthday and being on the other side of the planet, but I have the same fear as mosart. I had a delayed response to my taper in 2014. Granted, I tapered too quickly and was having symptoms I "pushed through" like muscle spasms and bursts of hyperactivity. But even with those symptoms there was nothing warning me that going to 0 didn't make sense. Once I did I felt fine for two weeks and then got slammed. I constantly worry that this is going to happen to me again, to be honest.

[[bu...]]

As you taper, and your dosage drops, the body gradually releases the "stored" benzo.  The lower you go, the lower your "reserve".  So when you are at or near zero, there is little or no benzo left to be released. 

 

Again, your body is always working to maintain a balance...homeostasis.