Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Be...]]

Hey all, any input on troubles dissolving your pills, in my case Klonopin into milk? . . . I made my dose last night, I'm still adjusting to liquid, day 2 on liquid today. . . and I noticed two of the pills were noticeably undissolved. The other was, however, gone. lol. My girlfriend suggested I add a "mixing bead", or essentially just a glass marble into the jar and shake that around with the milk. She's premed and apparently they did that in a lot of labs to dissolve things.

 

Is this a problem for anyone else? Tips/Tricks to avoiding it?. . . I'm almost positive I took most of my daily dose during my first dosing today, and would like things to be more even in the future. If anyone has any input I'd appreciate it

 

Bump

[[Ul...]]

Jeff:  In reading your signature it looks a lot like my friend NYC Wave Runner's who posts on the klonopin support group.  I think she was on the same amt as you and also other things as well. If you look at her signature you can see she has been able to get off using cut and hold. You may want to PM her since she has lots of good ideas about how to do this. I think she said the higher doses for her were the hardest and now that she is lower she is feeling better.  Just a thought to get help from buddies who have been where you are now and are having success on their tapers.  I know she is back to work now so she may not answer you right away or post on the K board she comes there often.

 

Hi Kgirl. Yes, I've been in touch with her. It's been a couple months, but we PM'd, etc. In my situation, it's not just the taper...it's all the other crazy things going on (thyroid, adrenals, hormones, insomnia to no end, etc.). Still hoping and praying for the best...for ALL of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Thank you

[[Ul...]]

Jeff, by any chance do you know how your liver metabolizes medications? such as the CYP450 test.  You said you are sensitive to meds, i so understand that! I too have tremendous issues with medication. Then discovered through a simple blood test that I am poor metabolizer of the CYP450. Because of my particular issues I am not able to tolerate Gabapentin, lyrica, neurontin, MAOI's, SSRI's.... and such. Just a thought I wanted to share as I was reading what you have posted. I am praying for and yours. ( are you on the faithbased board?)

Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzymes are bound to cell (cyto) membranes that contain a heme pigment (chrome and P). They absorb light at a 450-nanometer wavelength when exposed to carbon monoxide. Responsible for approximately 80% of oxidative drug metabolism, these enzymes metabolize roughly 90% of the drugs in use today. 

 

Hi Kasey. No, I'm not familiar with how my liver metabolizes meds. I just hang on for dear life and pray for the best!! I'm not on the faithbased board either. I didn't even know that existed, so thanks! I've never really been to many other threads on this site because it would just tend to freak me out. I'm having a really slow and difficult time with all this MT mainly due to the complexity of my case with multiple physical problems from the long-term benzo use and high amount. Like I always say, it'll be O.K. in the end.

 

Bless ya!

 

Jeff

Jeff, i was on k a long time so if ya have any questions i may be of some help ! I did a partial c/o to v and it does help coming off the k !~CD

 

Howdy, CD. Thanks for the offer! Valium pretty much scares the pee out of me. I know lots of people had/have problems with depression. That's the LAST thing I need more of. It's pretty brutal most of the time. I'll get all my ducks in a working row one of these days and get crackin' in a positive direction.

 

Have a ramblin' day!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

Hey all, any input on troubles dissolving your pills, in my case Klonopin into milk? . . . I made my dose last night, I'm still adjusting to liquid, day 2 on liquid today. . . and I noticed two of the pills were noticeably undissolved. The other was, however, gone. lol. My girlfriend suggested I add a "mixing bead", or essentially just a glass marble into the jar and shake that around with the milk. She's premed and apparently they did that in a lot of labs to dissolve things.

 

Is this a problem for anyone else? Tips/Tricks to avoiding it?. . . I'm almost positive I took most of my daily dose during my first dosing today, and would like things to be more even in the future. If anyone has any input I'd appreciate it

 

Bump

 

Might try asking this on the titration forum. I think we have a lot of vodka users on here.

[[Ca...]]

Good morning, I just wanted to say hi, I mainly post on the Klonopin Klub thread, today I'm starting to dry micro-taper for the first time, hope it will be easier on my brain/body than cut and hold.  My goal is an 8% reduction over the next two weeks, from 1.35 mg per day to 1.24 mg per day.  I have been cutting my .5 mg pills to .154g and taking them 3 times a day over the last 12 days, today I've cut them to .153g.  Fingers crossed!

[[ga...]]

You can do it Cat!

[[VC...]]

A quick question for you lovely peeps.

I'm nearing the end of my liquid xanax micro-taper. At what point can I safely jump? Seems that disruptions in sleep are my biggest concern.

 

If those who dry-cut can jump at 0.0625mg, why must those of us doing L/T taper all the way to zero?

Inquiring minds....

 

Thanks,

V.

[[Be...]]

Because you can. Seriously. And those of us who dry cut MT often go to zero to make a smoother transition—not necessarily symptom-wise, but for benefit of our neuro receptors. Not sure how Xanax short half-life stands up to L/T at such a low dose.

 

Anyone else want to weigh in?

 

Bennie

[[...]]

A quick question for you lovely peeps.

I'm nearing the end of my liquid xanax micro-taper. At what point can I safely jump? Seems that disruptions in sleep are my biggest concern.

 

If those who dry-cut can jump at 0.0625mg, why must those of us doing L/T taper all the way to zero?

Inquiring minds....

 

Thanks,

V.

 

What Bennie said.  You rode a ramp all the way to .0625mg to avoid shocking your nervous system, why would you suddenly jump to zero at the end?  The shock of that step down is just as real as at all other doses.  In fact, I'd say it is the biggest shock of them all as more receptors are uncovered by the very last bits of benzo.

[[my...]]

Yes...I agree with Bennie and SG.  Anyway...who jumps from .0625 mg?  No one I've read about.....at least not without possible long term post taper sxs.  Makes no sense...and I am always fighting impatience. So I understand the desire to be done but that's just not the way.  I don't know anything about LT's.  I am doing cut/hold and have no intention of jumping at .0625 as that WOULD be a jump and not a stepping off!!

 

Consider yourself fortunate that you are so low.  Not long and you will be done. 

 

[[de...]]

good morning buddies

 

 

I am real scared and sick and dont know what to do..on monday i started having burning coming and going right under my rib cage but didnt think to much about it cause i had been doing some lifting to get ready for the yard sale thats suppose to start today..then yesterday morning my heart was really messed up..i have an O2 meter and it would go from 88 laying down to 120 if i stood up and walked at all..it would go up even if i moved much...texted my doc and he said get to the office at 9..they did an ekg, chest xray, stomach x-ray and nothing strange showed up..i have been really stressed found out that my daughter who is hooked on methadone is 5 months pregnant and now wants me and hubby to be in this babies life she left her husband shortly after mom passed and i havent seen her since..also my son woke me up on sunday night at 2 in the morning so was up the rest of the day and never went back to sleep then he called me on tueday morning at 1 and woke me up... hes an alcoholic and was drunk both times and tells me i cant do this..everyone thinks i am a piece a sh*t..this is not life..i am so worried about him...doc asked me yesterday why am i trying to take care and save everyone else and not take care of me...i told him i dont know what else to do...i am so weak today from not eating and my heart is 78 resting but let me get up and up it flies to 112..i am so afraid of a heart attack..i have to do this yard sale for the next 4 days getting rid of the extra stock.. and i have advertised about it..so dont know how i am going to do this..

 

sorry i am writing so much but i am so worried that doc missed something and it is my heart and not the tapering catching up with me and the stress of the kids too..should i go back to where i was on saturday and felt ok and stay there for a bit i have been doing the c/c/h for quite awhile now and havent taken a break...

 

I really need some input on what to do and if anyone else has had this happen...i thought when i woke up this morning it would be gone and i would be ok ..but i am not..please tell me this is just the cuts and not my heart i am so afraid and cant pull myself together and distract my mind..my heart is beating so hard i can feel it all over my back and body..

 

 

thanks for listening..and sorry for not writing to anyone but i am just not able to..will be watching for responses

 

thanks in advance

 

deep

[[ga...]]

Deep, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. I'm also sorry that I have no idea about all those health/family problems you bring up. You might get more help in the withdrawal support forum. This thread is about micro tapering and, actually, isn't as active as it used to be.

 

If I were to make a wild guess, and it would just be a wild guess, I would say maybe try holding for awhile?? Sorry I can't offer more help than that.

 

Hope you can find someone who can relate to your problems in withdrawal support. They do sound complicated. But I think I have read of other people going through really rough stuff and coming out OK on the other side. Maybe you can find some reassurance from someone in withdrawal support.

 

Gard

[[de...]]

Gard  thanks so much for writing back to me..and i posted in that thread also and the k thread..i am just lost it seems and i was think SG would jump in with the hold or just keep on like  usual...but havent seen anything from him..cause he knows how i am not mathy at all when it comes to even where i am at 1g tabs...78 4 times a day .172 average weight..so i get lost with that..so not sure whether to hold or updose back to saturday or just move on..

 

and sorry the thread is not as active as it use to be..we all need to try and stick together and so many are micro-tapering

 

thanks again and hope you are having a good day

 

deep

[[...]]

good morning buddies

 

 

I am real scared and sick and dont know what to do..on monday i started having burning coming and going right under my rib cage but didnt think to much about it cause i had been doing some lifting to get ready for the yard sale thats suppose to start today..then yesterday morning my heart was really messed up..i have an O2 meter and it would go from 88 laying down to 120 if i stood up and walked at all..it would go up even if i moved much...texted my doc and he said get to the office at 9..they did an ekg, chest xray, stomach x-ray and nothing strange showed up..i have been really stressed found out that my daughter who is hooked on methadone is 5 months pregnant and now wants me and hubby to be in this babies life she left her husband shortly after mom passed and i havent seen her since..also my son woke me up on sunday night at 2 in the morning so was up the rest of the day and never went back to sleep then he called me on tueday morning at 1 and woke me up... hes an alcoholic and was drunk both times and tells me i cant do this..everyone thinks i am a piece a sh*t..this is not life..i am so worried about him...doc asked me yesterday why am i trying to take care and save everyone else and not take care of me...i told him i dont know what else to do...i am so weak today from not eating and my heart is 78 resting but let me get up and up it flies to 112..i am so afraid of a heart attack..i have to do this yard sale for the next 4 days getting rid of the extra stock.. and i have advertised about it..so dont know how i am going to do this..

 

sorry i am writing so much but i am so worried that doc missed something and it is my heart and not the tapering catching up with me and the stress of the kids too..should i go back to where i was on saturday and felt ok and stay there for a bit i have been doing the c/c/h for quite awhile now and havent taken a break...

 

I really need some input on what to do and if anyone else has had this happen...i thought when i woke up this morning it would be gone and i would be ok ..but i am not..please tell me this is just the cuts and not my heart i am so afraid and cant pull myself together and distract my mind..my heart is beating so hard i can feel it all over my back and body..

 

 

thanks for listening..and sorry for not writing to anyone but i am just not able to..will be watching for responses

 

thanks in advance

 

deep

 

Hi Deep,

 

That all sounds like the typical benzo pattern - weird symptoms happen and then we go to get them checked and they find nothing.  And they sound like benzo symptoms.  I had high heart rate and elevated BP as well as burning and pins and needles.

 

It can be difficult to know what is the best corrective action sometimes.  No matter where we are in our tapers I think it is best to always focus staying well/getting back to feeling well.  cch with 1mg K pills is about .004mg per day.  If I remember, your dose is just under 2mg so this is about 6% a month.  If this has been bringing on symptoms I certainly would not continue.

 

Whether you hold or go back is a judgement call on your part.  If you think you feel bad enough and want to try for quick relief I'd give it a try.  Your idea to go back to the last day you felt good is a good one.  If symptoms are tolerable and lighter, then holding might be the better choice, but in reading your post I get the feeling updosing might be the thing to do.  I'd go back to Saturday as you mentioned and hold as long as needed for this to subside - that seems like a logical thing to try.

 

If you think this was brought on by the cch (67%) cut rate you need to reel that in a little.  You need to find a cut that does not bring on symptoms.  When you restart I'd suggest trying either cchch (60%) or ch (50%).

[[de...]]

SG thank you so much for getting back to me and for giving me your opinion and options..i am going to cut my pills like it was last saturday and start that dose in the morning and see if i can pull out of this and if so then i will know that it was the cut being to much for to long ..then i will have to see how much more cutting i need to do before i can switch to the .5mgs tabs and not be updosing..now that i have got that covered at the moment i have got to get my head straight again and distract and get my eyes to focusing better..and then on with the taper once i stabilize .

I guess another thing that i am starting to worry about is people who sometimes get sick and no matter what they do hold, cut, or updose nothing pulls them out and that scares me alot since i have been on k for so very long.

 

Thanks again for your help

 

deep

[[...]]

SG thank you so much for getting back to me and for giving me your opinion and options..i am going to cut my pills like it was last saturday and start that dose in the morning and see if i can pull out of this and if so then i will know that it was the cut being to much for to long ..then i will have to see how much more cutting i need to do before i can switch to the .5mgs tabs and not be updosing..now that i have got that covered at the moment i have got to get my head straight again and distract and get my eyes to focusing better..and then on with the taper once i stabilize .

I guess another thing that i am starting to worry about is people who sometimes get sick and no matter what they do hold, cut, or updose nothing pulls them out and that scares me alot since i have been on k for so very long.

 

Thanks again for your help

 

deep

 

Updosing is a time-dependent thing, meaning it is more likely to work if you act fast.  If you have some small chips of K around it might be good to take the difference in weight right away today to get started sooner.

 

I guess there are people who can't avoid being sick, but I think most who get caught in sickness (like me) have done it to themselves by pushing through symptoms - the focus was to taper rather than feel well (yup, definitely me).  I suspect that when this happens and the benzo gets too short another kind of longer-term damage happens (like that described in Perseverence's research), and these symptoms stick around.  I don't think you have to CT to get CT-like symptoms that won't go away.

 

My point is if you focus on always feeling well and insist on maintaining that (like you are doing now by holding and updosing instead of pressing on) you should be fine all the way down.  That's the key and you are doing it.  It may take longer, but that is what is required.  The amount of patience needed is enormous, but so is the payoff.

[[Ja...]]

Sg57 how do you feel now?

I am holding at 5mg v after a fast taper and previous cold turkey accidentally. I think both experiences did damage to my Cns and now still feel a burning in my chest but otherwise functional

I was not on meds for long just ultra sensitive

Doc recc holding before taper for 3 mos. I think I will do 6 wks as a compromise

Are u functional?

[[bu...]]

 

My point is if you focus on always feeling well and insist on maintaining that (like you are doing now by holding and updosing instead of pressing on) you should be fine all the way down.  That's the key and you are doing it.  It may take longer, but that is what is required.  The amount of patience needed is enormous, but so is the payoff.

 

:thumbsup:

[[...]]

Sg57 how do you feel now?

I am holding at 5mg v after a fast taper and previous cold turkey accidentally. I think both experiences did damage to my Cns and now still feel a burning in my chest but otherwise functional

I was not on meds for long just ultra sensitive

Doc recc holding before taper for 3 mos. I think I will do 6 wks as a compromise

Are u functional?

 

I'm still disabled - reassigned at work to accommodate me.  I can do for myself, driving, etc.  The days just really suck.  Hopefully I'm 6-12 months away.

[[ga...]]

Gard  thanks so much for writing back to me..and i posted in that thread also and the k thread..i am just lost it seems and i was think SG would jump in with the hold or just keep on like  usual...but havent seen anything from him..cause he knows how i am not mathy at all when it comes to even where i am at 1g tabs...78 4 times a day .172 average weight..so i get lost with that..so not sure whether to hold or updose back to saturday or just move on..

 

and sorry the thread is not as active as it use to be..we all need to try and stick together and so many are micro-tapering

 

thanks again and hope you are having a good day

 

deep

 

Deep, a lot of the micro-taper talk seems to be on the titration forum these days. Glad to see SG found your post! He's much more knowledgable than I am.

[[ga...]]

Sg57 how do you feel now?

I am holding at 5mg v after a fast taper and previous cold turkey accidentally. I think both experiences did damage to my Cns and now still feel a burning in my chest but otherwise functional

I was not on meds for long just ultra sensitive

Doc recc holding before taper for 3 mos. I think I will do 6 wks as a compromise

Are u functional?

 

I'm still disabled - reassigned at work to accommodate me.  I can do for myself, driving, etc.  The days just really suck.  Hopefully I'm 6-12 months away.

 

I'm glad to hear your job was willing to accommodate you. Hoping, too, that you are maybe only 6 months from being healed!

 

You're leaving me in the dust!  

 

[[VC...]]

Yes...I agree with Bennie and SG.  Anyway...who jumps from .0625 mg?  No one I've read about.....at least not without possible long term post taper sxs.  Makes no sense...and I am always fighting impatience. So I understand the desire to be done but that's just not the way.  I don't know anything about LT's.  I am doing cut/hold and have no intention of jumping at .0625 as that WOULD be a jump and not a stepping off!!

 

Consider yourself fortunate that you are so low.  Not long and you will be done. 

 

 

Thanks for everyone's responses. Just eager to be done and happy to be nearing the end of this arduous taper.

Thing is, several on this forum have jumped from 0.065mg with success. But the closer to zero, the better.  Definitely planning to taper to zero.

I was kindled most of this trip anyway. But there's not a thing to be done about Xanax having a short half-life. I've done as well as can be expected, I suppose.

 

Thank you!

V.

[[VC...]]

A quick question for you lovely peeps.

I'm nearing the end of my liquid xanax micro-taper. At what point can I safely jump? Seems that disruptions in sleep are my biggest concern.

 

If those who dry-cut can jump at 0.0625mg, why must those of us doing L/T taper all the way to zero?

Inquiring minds....

 

Thanks,

V.

 

What Bennie said.  You rode a ramp all the way to .0625mg to avoid shocking your nervous system, why would you suddenly jump to zero at the end?  The shock of that step down is just as real as at all other doses.  In fact, I'd say it is the biggest shock of them all as more receptors are uncovered by the very last bits of benzo.

 

Ah! I never said I plan to jump just yet. But I know of several who did fine jumping at 0.065.

 

My CNS has been shocky the whole ride, though. Least upset causes BP to shoot up and stay up, thus 3 medications. My CNS is surely improved, but will need to be completely off benzo for awhile to finish healing, and I'm under enormous stress right now. Might hold an extra week here and there.

 

Sometimes it feels like the peeps on this forum seem to scare each other.... but I'm just glad to be 88% done. It's been a long, hard ride.

 

Blessings,

V.

[[Be...]]

A quick question for you lovely peeps.

I'm nearing the end of my liquid xanax micro-taper. At what point can I safely jump? Seems that disruptions in sleep are my biggest concern.

 

If those who dry-cut can jump at 0.0625mg, why must those of us doing L/T taper all the way to zero?

Inquiring minds....

 

Thanks,

V.

 

What Bennie said.  You rode a ramp all the way to .0625mg to avoid shocking your nervous system, why would you suddenly jump to zero at the end?  The shock of that step down is just as real as at all other doses.  In fact, I'd say it is the biggest shock of them all as more receptors are uncovered by the very last bits of benzo.

 

Ah! I never said I plan to jump just yet. But I know of several who did fine jumping at 0.065.

 

My CNS has been shocky the whole ride, though. Least upset causes BP to shoot up and stay up, thus 3 medications. My CNS is surely improved, but will need to be completely off benzo for awhile to finish healing, and I'm under enormous stress right now. Might hold an extra week here and there.

 

Sometimes it feels like the peeps on this forum seem to scare each other.... but I'm just glad to be 88% done. It's been a long, hard ride.

 

Blessings,

V.

 

You've done an awesome taper. And X is hard with the short half life. It's fabulous you are 88% through!

[[my...]]

Let's vow not to scare each other!!!  I'll start ---  first of all...I respect SG and Builder -- and Bennie, hi Bennie!!!    SO much.  Whenever I want to speed things up..I remember all of the wisdom shared here.  I really like what SG just wrote and what builder quoted ---

 

My point is if you focus on always feeling well and insist on maintaining that (like you are doing now by holding and updosing instead of pressing on) you should be fine all the way down.  That's the key and you are doing it.  It may take longer, but that is what is required.  The amount of patience needed is enormous, but so is the payoff.

 

:thumbsup:

 

It's true....the amount of patience needed is enormous!!!!  And even if we are impatient we have to let cooler - and more experienced - heads prevail and listen to them.  Just today, I was thinking..."Gee...this 5% every 10 days seems to be going pretty well so what about 6 or 7%?  And I began to do the math...6% didn't make that much of a difference but 7%??  Wow...well no wonder as it is almost a 50% larger cut than I am currently making.  So, yeah, I would finish maybe a couple of months..even three months earlier but at what price?  And would I really be done?  Probably not...I would probably just make up the difference in post taper w/d sxs...so better to ease on down.  I plan to try a MT again once I reach .3mg/daily.  Down to zero or thereabouts. 

 

SG, I'm just sorry it took you having a difficult post taper, for you to be able to spend the amount and quality of time you do with us -- pointing the way.  And you too builder!  And you too Bennie!  Big thanks.