Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ma...]]

 

 

I started at 1.75mg of xanax. you can read my sig to see where I am now. I plan to jump around the end of March!

JR,

Congrats! I have seen your progress before. I am glad you are able to taper faster and function. Good for you! 

 

Gard,

Have you tried sleep hypnosis or meditation? I don't know if I asked you this before. If I did, I am sorry. I hope everything is getting easier! PM me if you want. Sending you lots of love 

 

Jeff,

Sending you lots of love as well and PM me if you want. Always thinking of you and wishing you well!

 

Marija,

I hope your V taper keeps going well. So happy you are off X for good. Also I know you have a Drs appt this month. I hope all is well!

 

XO Maya 

 

[[ga...]]

 

 

I started at 1.75mg of xanax. you can read my sig to see where I am now. I plan to jump around the end of March!

JR,

Congrats! I have seen your progress before. I am glad you are able to taper faster and function. Good for you! 

 

Gard,

Have you tried sleep hypnosis or meditation? I don't know if I asked you this before. If I did, I am sorry. I hope everything is getting easier! PM me if you want. Sending you lots of love 

 

Jeff,

Sending you lots of love as well and PM me if you want. Always thinking of you and wishing you well!

 

Marija,

I hope your V taper keeps going well. So happy you are off X for good. Also I know you have a Drs appt this month. I hope all is well!

 

XO Maya 

 

Good to see you Maya. I'm very tired and very depressed lately. All this L is not good for me. After this week I all start cutting again and hopefully get back to a dose I can tolerate. As for sleep, I can't get my mind around much right now. Just eating, doing what needs to be done, waiting for the next day. Hoping it's better. Sometimes the depression lifts for a bit. L is sure different for me than X. Really looking forward to cutting again. I hate standing still. But I read to wait 2 weeks from last X to start cutting. So that's what I'm doing. Son is moved out. Daughter is moved in. She is still under her dorm contract, so she still has a room on campus so she can stay there when we have snow storms, but at least I'm not alone all the time. Funny, I used to love my alone time. Now I'm scared of it. These drugs sure do mess up your brain. But one day, I will be off of them. I won't give up.

 

Hope you are doing well. Glad you popped in!

 

Gard

[[my...]]

Gard,

It will probably take a bit of time for your CNS to adjust.  Know that this feeling won't last.  It will surely lift. And once you can cut some of the L, I think that will help with the fatigue and depression. 

 

Try and distract and not worry, if you can.  Be good to yourself. 

[[ga...]]

Gard,

It will probably take a bit of time for your CNS to adjust.  Know that this feeling won't last.  It will surely lift. And once you can cut some of the L, I think that will help with the fatigue and depression. 

 

Try and distract and not worry, if you can.  Be good to yourself. 

 

Thanks, Mana. I try to keep telling that to myself. Things I could do fine last week, can't do this week. Today decided to distract by re-hemming old dishcloths that are frayed. Mindless busy work, right? Got one, count 'em, one done today. And it's a darn good thing nobody cares if dishcloth hems are straight.

 

Want. To. Start. My. Librium. Taper.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Gardener,

I'm coming over to check that hem!

Glad you're able to distract with some busy work. I agree with Mana, that this will not last.  It rarely does, always moving and changing.

 

Maya - look at you plowing through your taper!  Nice that you are not feeling your cuts and seeing much progress 😊

I'm feeling my last .25 cut but know this will subside. Just need to whether the storm.

 

 

Hope all buddies are well and enjoying some Windows.

Bennie, I've been thinking of you. Have the vibrations settled?

 

Marija

 

[[ga...]]

Hi, Marija. Hope your wave is subsides soon. I get little breaks in the depression, and I expect they will get longer and longer as I start to cut. Hate this Librium. It was better at a lower dose. Think I will start cutting tomorrow.

 

Wishing all window-ful days.

 

Gard

[[Ul...]]

Hey SG, Builder, Anne...

 

...well, just about anybody, I suppose. First, great to see that you're doing well, Maya. Gard, keep hangin'!! (Anne, you're smokin' this thing!). Same goes for everybody even though a lot of people don't know me since I don't post a lot. I have a lot of physical issues going on that prevent me from cutting, and the financial stress of not being able to work is beyond brutal. My wife has been struggling so much with cancer issues, as well. So, things have been really crazy.

 

Anyway, I talked to someone in the forum by phone last night, but wanted tell and ask you all something too. I remember SG saying so often to "heal faster than you taper". Heck, I'd be happy just to heal my thyroid...or adrenal glands...or heart rhythm!! Insomnia is a massive nut-buster. Well, I was talking to this chiropractor last night who's been helping me with the adrenal issues, gut health, etc. A partner of his was also there with us. The partner went to medical school, but never took med boards because he disagreed with "treating only the symptoms" versus finding the root cause of problems (he's a chiropractor now). This guy told me that he knows quite a bit about addiction and that the K has created all my health issues (really?? I'm surprised), and that I need to get off it asap. He said I can take a med to help me with symptoms etc. so I can get off K fast. He knows of a guy who's double-board certified in psychiatry as well as neurology. He said that the psych guy would probably put me on Gabapentin to help with K sx, and help me get off K SO much faster than what I'm going through right now (which is practically zero). I tried to explain that 22 yrs on a mega dose of K isn't something that MY body can tolerate "fast" at all. Told him about MT. He asked if I really wanted to continue this misery I have (K, thyroid, etc.) for another several years+. Obviously, I don't, but who does? I told him that I was also concerned about adding another med to my benzo regimen. It seems like I've read so much here about drug interaction problems when it comes to MTing benzos.

 

So, what are your thoughts on adding another med to the mix and trying to get my K reduction moving? Specifically, I guess I'm talking about Gabapentin. On the phone last night, I said that my gut-feeling was what SG said...heal faster than you taper (even though I'm not really tapering due to all my other issues). SG, I'd love to hear since you and I are similar in how much benzo we've taken over a similar time period. For those that don't know me, I was at 3+mg/day of K for the first 10 years and then 5-6mg/day for the next 12 or so...22 yrs total. Ridiculous!!! Can't believe I listened to docs for that long, but who knew?! Plus, psychiatrists had me on mega med cocktails to join the benzo over the years. I was definitely a walking pharmacy for over two decades. Missed my daughter's life, not to mention what I didn't give my wife...a good husband. Trying to lean on Faith.

 

Thanks, and my best to all!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

[[...]]

Hey SG, Builder, Anne...

 

...well, just about anybody, I suppose. First, great to see that you're doing well, Maya. Gard, keep hangin'!! (Anne, you're smokin' this thing!). Same goes for everybody even though a lot of people don't know me since I don't post a lot. I have a lot of physical issues going on that prevent me from cutting, and the financial stress of not being able to work is beyond brutal. My wife has been struggling so much with cancer issues, as well. So, things have been really crazy.

 

Anyway, I talked to someone in the forum by phone last night, but wanted tell and ask you all something too. I remember SG saying so often to "heal faster than you taper". Heck, I'd be happy just to heal my thyroid...or adrenal glands...or heart rhythm!! Insomnia is a massive nut-buster. Well, I was talking to this chiropractor last night who's been helping me with the adrenal issues, gut health, etc. A partner of his was also there with us. The partner went to medical school, but never took med boards because he disagreed with "treating only the symptoms" versus finding the root cause of problems (he's a chiropractor now). This guy told me that he knows quite a bit about addiction and that the K has created all my health issues (really?? I'm surprised), and that I need to get off it asap. He said I can take a med to help me with symptoms etc. so I can get off K fast. He knows of a guy who's double-board certified in psychiatry as well as neurology. He said that the psych guy would probably put me on Gabapentin to help with K sx, and help me get off K SO much faster than what I'm going through right now (which is practically zero). I tried to explain that 22 yrs on a mega dose of K isn't something that MY body can tolerate "fast" at all. Told him about MT. He asked if I really wanted to continue this misery I have (K, thyroid, etc.) for another several years+. Obviously, I don't, but who does? I told him that I was also concerned about adding another med to my benzo regimen. It seems like I've read so much here about drug interaction problems when it comes to MTing benzos.

 

So, what are your thoughts on adding another med to the mix and trying to get my K reduction moving? Specifically, I guess I'm talking about Gabapentin. On the phone last night, I said that my gut-feeling was what SG said...heal faster than you taper (even though I'm not really tapering due to all my other issues). SG, I'd love to hear since you and I are similar in how much benzo we've taken over a similar time period. For those that don't know me, I was at 3+mg/day of K for the first 10 years and then 5-6mg/day for the next 12 or so...22 yrs total. Ridiculous!!! Can't believe I listened to docs for that long, but who knew?! Plus, psychiatrists had me on mega med cocktails to join the benzo over the years. I was definitely a walking pharmacy for over two decades. Missed my daughter's life, not to mention what I didn't give my wife...a good husband. Trying to lean on Faith.

 

Thanks, and my best to all!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

As for Gabapentin, it can require a taper too.  Go on survivingantidepressants.org to find out more and research it.  I don't know much beyond that.  The interaction of drugs is only a problem when the new drug interferes with the metabolism of the benzo.  Checking for this is routine and more often than not is not a problem.

 

The bigger issue is that this guy is recommending to quickly reduce the K.  My understanding is Gabapentin does not replace K so this would leave you in a CT state.  As far as I know there is no way around this.  The only way to get off a benzo (or any psych drug that has damaged receptors) is to slowly taper it, allowing time to reverse the damage.  I wish it weren't true, but I've yet to see anything credible that counters this.

 

It bothers me when I hear stories of doctors who think it is okay to do what this doctor is suggesting.  Do they know something we don't?  Are we missing something?  Or is the doctor uninformed and unaware of what could happen?  This even happens with addiction specialists, who you would think would have the detailed knowledge to be well aware of the problem.  I just don't get the disconnect - why don't they know?

 

The fundamental problem is that the benzo has damaged the GABA receptor system.  It takes ages to set it right again and being too short of benzo will apparently cause further problems beyond the GABA system, as system do not act in isolation from each other.  This all amounts to it being a very bad and dangerous idea to reduce the K quickly.  I'd ask him how a different method would allow for fast GABA healing.  Without GABA healing there is no recovery.  If he has a way to do it it would be a mega leap forward, but I would not hold my breathe.

[[Kg...]]

Ultra there are many people here who have tried the gabapentin.  For some it seems to help for others it leads to a worsening of their s/x so I would read the posts here and then decide what you think is best for you.

 

IMHO there is no short cut to doing this since one way or another your body needs to adjust to the lack of the Klonopin. I think if there was an easier way to do this someone would have found it and we would all be off.  There are a large % of people who are not sensitive to cutting out K or any other benzo for that matter and then of course there is us.  We can't force our bodies to heal faster than our bodies are able to though believe me it would be nice to be able to do this.  I truly believe what SG has said so many times - that you will either heal on the way down doing a slow controlled taper or you will have to heal after you stop and that is more likely a much more difficult road to follow.  So though your taper may seem like it is taking too long, it is not, it is your body healing itself on the way off. 

[[ga...]]

Hey SG, Builder, Anne...

 

...well, just about anybody, I suppose. First, great to see that you're doing well, Maya. Gard, keep hangin'!! (Anne, you're smokin' this thing!). Same goes for everybody even though a lot of people don't know me since I don't post a lot. I have a lot of physical issues going on that prevent me from cutting, and the financial stress of not being able to work is beyond brutal. My wife has been struggling so much with cancer issues, as well. So, things have been really crazy.

 

Anyway, I talked to someone in the forum by phone last night, but wanted tell and ask you all something too. I remember SG saying so often to "heal faster than you taper". Heck, I'd be happy just to heal my thyroid...or adrenal glands...or heart rhythm!! Insomnia is a massive nut-buster. Well, I was talking to this chiropractor last night who's been helping me with the adrenal issues, gut health, etc. A partner of his was also there with us. The partner went to medical school, but never took med boards because he disagreed with "treating only the symptoms" versus finding the root cause of problems (he's a chiropractor now). This guy told me that he knows quite a bit about addiction and that the K has created all my health issues (really?? I'm surprised), and that I need to get off it asap. He said I can take a med to help me with symptoms etc. so I can get off K fast. He knows of a guy who's double-board certified in psychiatry as well as neurology. He said that the psych guy would probably put me on Gabapentin to help with K sx, and help me get off K SO much faster than what I'm going through right now (which is practically zero). I tried to explain that 22 yrs on a mega dose of K isn't something that MY body can tolerate "fast" at all. Told him about MT. He asked if I really wanted to continue this misery I have (K, thyroid, etc.) for another several years+. Obviously, I don't, but who does? I told him that I was also concerned about adding another med to my benzo regimen. It seems like I've read so much here about drug interaction problems when it comes to MTing benzos.

 

So, what are your thoughts on adding another med to the mix and trying to get my K reduction moving? Specifically, I guess I'm talking about Gabapentin. On the phone last night, I said that my gut-feeling was what SG said...heal faster than you taper (even though I'm not really tapering due to all my other issues). SG, I'd love to hear since you and I are similar in how much benzo we've taken over a similar time period. For those that don't know me, I was at 3+mg/day of K for the first 10 years and then 5-6mg/day for the next 12 or so...22 yrs total. Ridiculous!!! Can't believe I listened to docs for that long, but who knew?! Plus, psychiatrists had me on mega med cocktails to join the benzo over the years. I was definitely a walking pharmacy for over two decades. Missed my daughter's life, not to mention what I didn't give my wife...a good husband. Trying to lean on Faith.

 

Thanks, and my best to all!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

 

Hey, Jeff, I did notice that when I added gabapentin to treat my restless leg syndrome and neuropathy (which were killing me by destroying my sleep), my taper symptoms lessened also. I know I will have to decide some day about tapering it, also. It's sort of like swapping one problem for another or choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

 

Another thing that helped me was partially crossing to L (a weak, annoying benzo compared to V). I was able to stay half crossed for a long time and go at my Xanax faster (I was also at almost nil at the point I started my cross, so "faster" is a relative term) and I got to 15%/month taper with the L and the gabapentin added in.

 

At that point, my psychiatrist wanted me to keep crossing and I was so sick of dosing 6 times/day that I finished my cross and now am on all L. I'm adjusting to that now. L is depressing but I will be cutting it soon.

 

Those are my two experiences with getting going on my taper when I was at almost a standstill. I wanted to taper straight off the X, obviously the best choice, but not one I was able to do. So I chose this route as the lesser of two evils. It is psychologically a boost to be sleeping better and dosing less often and actually be making progress.

 

I agree with SG. Big cuts would still not be in order, although at very high doses, because of curved slope of the addiction, some people can make big cuts very early on. A safer start would be maybe try 10%/month, and then 15%, and then 20% but I would be hesitant to go faster than that. You still need time to heal as you go.

 

My 2 cents. Proceed with caution! Sure hope you find something that helps you go forward. You've been waiting so long!

 

Gard

 

P.S. A healthy diet and gentle exercise will help, too. I recommend the book It Starts With Food, which my primary doctor had me read. Very enlightening!

 

[[bu...]]

As a generalization, I am not a believer in adding supplements or other meds to a taper/withdrawal program.  And gabapentin  is really just another gabaergic drug, little different from a benzos.

 

There are a few meds that help with withdrawal symptoms and have not risk of dependency, (eg. beta blockers), but IMO, psychoactive drugs will generally just complicate your existing dependency.

[[Ki...]]

Newbie here- still not stable enough to start but wanting to get ready. For those of us who are cowards, is there a problem with every other day instead of every day, at least initially?

[[bu...]]

Everyday will be smoother, easier.

[[my...]]

Hi all,

 

I'd have to go back and read Jeff's post, but Jeff, you didn't say the chiropractors suggested that you substitute Gabapentin for Klonopin did you?  If they did, then you should completely disregard their advice.  It's nonsense.  Gabapentin is used as an adjunct to withdrawal to ease some sxs and possibly help with sleep.  It has to be tapered but can be done 100 mg at a time.  It is really no big deal...I was taking 600 mg but not only didn't it do much, it caused some edema so I tapered 100 mg a week at a time down to 200 mg around 6 months ago. No w/d, no problem.  I now take 200 mg at bedtime along with my night time dose of K (see sig) and occasionally one extra during the day if I am experiencing a wave.  But really?  It doesn't do much.  I will happily take two weeks to withdraw from it once I'm done with my K taper.

 

But to compare it to Benzos or say it is another benzo type medication is just not so.  Yes, it acts on the gaba receptors, but evidently not in the same way that Benzos do.  Look, all Benzos are controlled substances.  They are addicting.  Gabapentin is not.  Yes, it has to be tapered but it's no big deal. it also doesn't help all that much, as I've said, and could never be confused with the power of a benzo like Klonopin to calm the CNS.

 

Otherwise, I agree with what everyone has already said in terms of a careful taper.  Again, read Colin's advice under general taper plans.  He suggests no more than 5-10% every 7-14 days.  I see no reason why you would want to go slower than that or why you would need to go faster.  My taper has lasted as long as it has because I inserted one long 4 month hold into it as there were things I either wanted or needed to do and didn't think I could do them while tapering.  Can't go back in time...but now I am putting the taper first, as I really want to finish it up this year.

 

And yes, we would all like to get off these powerfully destructive drugs (Benzos) sooner rather than later...but as Gard and KGirl and SG and builder remind us....there is really no choice but to get through it by going through it.  There is almost a relief, I found, in accepting this fact.  No magic.  Just consistent, careful tapering and trying to take care of our overall health as best we can.

[[...]]

Newbie here- still not stable enough to start but wanting to get ready. For those of us who are cowards, is there a problem with every other day instead of every day, at least initially?

 

As Builder said, for a given rate breaking it into daily cuts is optimal.  In other words, whatever your every-other-day cut is, if you break it in half and cut daily it will be smoother.  But, TBH I don't think we are talking about a big difference going from one day to two.

[[Ul...]]

Hey SG, Builder, Anne...

 

...well, just about anybody, I suppose. First, great to see that you're doing well, Maya. Gard, keep hangin'!! (Anne, you're smokin' this thing!). Same goes for everybody even though a lot of people don't know me since I don't post a lot. I have a lot of physical issues going on that prevent me from cutting, and the financial stress of not being able to work is beyond brutal. My wife has been struggling so much with cancer issues, as well. So, things have been really crazy.

 

Anyway, I talked to someone in the forum by phone last night, but wanted tell and ask you all something too. I remember SG saying so often to "heal faster than you taper". Heck, I'd be happy just to heal my thyroid...or adrenal glands...or heart rhythm!! Insomnia is a massive nut-buster. Well, I was talking to this chiropractor last night who's been helping me with the adrenal issues, gut health, etc. A partner of his was also there with us. The partner went to medical school, but never took med boards because he disagreed with "treating only the symptoms" versus finding the root cause of problems (he's a chiropractor now). This guy told me that he knows quite a bit about addiction and that the K has created all my health issues (really?? I'm surprised), and that I need to get off it asap. He said I can take a med to help me with symptoms etc. so I can get off K fast. He knows of a guy who's double-board certified in psychiatry as well as neurology. He said that the psych guy would probably put me on Gabapentin to help with K sx, and help me get off K SO much faster than what I'm going through right now (which is practically zero). I tried to explain that 22 yrs on a mega dose of K isn't something that MY body can tolerate "fast" at all. Told him about MT. He asked if I really wanted to continue this misery I have (K, thyroid, etc.) for another several years+. Obviously, I don't, but who does? I told him that I was also concerned about adding another med to my benzo regimen. It seems like I've read so much here about drug interaction problems when it comes to MTing benzos.

 

So, what are your thoughts on adding another med to the mix and trying to get my K reduction moving? Specifically, I guess I'm talking about Gabapentin. On the phone last night, I said that my gut-feeling was what SG said...heal faster than you taper (even though I'm not really tapering due to all my other issues). SG, I'd love to hear since you and I are similar in how much benzo we've taken over a similar time period. For those that don't know me, I was at 3+mg/day of K for the first 10 years and then 5-6mg/day for the next 12 or so...22 yrs total. Ridiculous!!! Can't believe I listened to docs for that long, but who knew?! Plus, psychiatrists had me on mega med cocktails to join the benzo over the years. I was definitely a walking pharmacy for over two decades. Missed my daughter's life, not to mention what I didn't give my wife...a good husband. Trying to lean on Faith.

 

Thanks, and my best to all!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,

 

As for Gabapentin, it can require a taper too.  Go on survivingantidepressants.org to find out more and research it.  I don't know much beyond that.  The interaction of drugs is only a problem when the new drug interferes with the metabolism of the benzo.  Checking for this is routine and more often than not is not a problem.

 

The bigger issue is that this guy is recommending to quickly reduce the K.  My understanding is Gabapentin does not replace K so this would leave you in a CT state.  As far as I know there is no way around this.  The only way to get off a benzo (or any psych drug that has damaged receptors) is to slowly taper it, allowing time to reverse the damage.  I wish it weren't true, but I've yet to see anything credible that counters this.

 

It bothers me when I hear stories of doctors who think it is okay to do what this doctor is suggesting.  Do they know something we don't?  Are we missing something?  Or is the doctor uninformed and unaware of what could happen?  This even happens with addiction specialists, who you would think would have the detailed knowledge to be well aware of the problem.  I just don't get the disconnect - why don't they know?

 

The fundamental problem is that the benzo has damaged the GABA receptor system.  It takes ages to set it right again and being too short of benzo will apparently cause further problems beyond the GABA system, as system do not act in isolation from each other.  This all amounts to it being a very bad and dangerous idea to reduce the K quickly.  I'd ask him how a different method would allow for fast GABA healing.  Without GABA healing there is no recovery.  If he has a way to do it it would be a mega leap forward, but I would not hold my breathe.

 

You would know!! I trust ya. I'll do as you say and research where you said to look.

 

Keep hangin' in there, SG. I literally keep you and the rest of the gang in my daily devotionals and prayers. We all appreciate you!!!

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Hey SG, Builder, Anne...

 

...well, just about anybody, I suppose. First, great to see that you're doing well, Maya. Gard, keep hangin'!! (Anne, you're smokin' this thing!). Same goes for everybody even though a lot of people don't know me since I don't post a lot. I have a lot of physical issues going on that prevent me from cutting, and the financial stress of not being able to work is beyond brutal. My wife has been struggling so much with cancer issues, as well. So, things have been really crazy.

 

Anyway, I talked to someone in the forum by phone last night, but wanted tell and ask you all something too. I remember SG saying so often to "heal faster than you taper". Heck, I'd be happy just to heal my thyroid...or adrenal glands...or heart rhythm!! Insomnia is a massive nut-buster. Well, I was talking to this chiropractor last night who's been helping me with the adrenal issues, gut health, etc. A partner of his was also there with us. The partner went to medical school, but never took med boards because he disagreed with "treating only the symptoms" versus finding the root cause of problems (he's a chiropractor now). This guy told me that he knows quite a bit about addiction and that the K has created all my health issues (really?? I'm surprised), and that I need to get off it asap. He said I can take a med to help me with symptoms etc. so I can get off K fast. He knows of a guy who's double-board certified in psychiatry as well as neurology. He said that the psych guy would probably put me on Gabapentin to help with K sx, and help me get off K SO much faster than what I'm going through right now (which is practically zero). I tried to explain that 22 yrs on a mega dose of K isn't something that MY body can tolerate "fast" at all. Told him about MT. He asked if I really wanted to continue this misery I have (K, thyroid, etc.) for another several years+. Obviously, I don't, but who does? I told him that I was also concerned about adding another med to my benzo regimen. It seems like I've read so much here about drug interaction problems when it comes to MTing benzos.

 

So, what are your thoughts on adding another med to the mix and trying to get my K reduction moving? Specifically, I guess I'm talking about Gabapentin. On the phone last night, I said that my gut-feeling was what SG said...heal faster than you taper (even though I'm not really tapering due to all my other issues). SG, I'd love to hear since you and I are similar in how much benzo we've taken over a similar time period. For those that don't know me, I was at 3+mg/day of K for the first 10 years and then 5-6mg/day for the next 12 or so...22 yrs total. Ridiculous!!! Can't believe I listened to docs for that long, but who knew?! Plus, psychiatrists had me on mega med cocktails to join the benzo over the years. I was definitely a walking pharmacy for over two decades. Missed my daughter's life, not to mention what I didn't give my wife...a good husband. Trying to lean on Faith.

 

Thanks, and my best to all!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

 

Hey, Jeff, I did notice that when I added gabapentin to treat my restless leg syndrome and neuropathy (which were killing me by destroying my sleep), my taper symptoms lessened also. I know I will have to decide some day about tapering it, also. It's sort of like swapping one problem for another or choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

 

Another thing that helped me was partially crossing to L (a weak, annoying benzo compared to V). I was able to stay half crossed for a long time and go at my Xanax faster (I was also at almost nil at the point I started my cross, so "faster" is a relative term) and I got to 15%/month taper with the L and the gabapentin added in.

 

At that point, my psychiatrist wanted me to keep crossing and I was so sick of dosing 6 times/day that I finished my cross and now am on all L. I'm adjusting to that now. L is depressing but I will be cutting it soon.

 

Those are my two experiences with getting going on my taper when I was at almost a standstill. I wanted to taper straight off the X, obviously the best choice, but not one I was able to do. So I chose this route as the lesser of two evils. It is psychologically a boost to be sleeping better and dosing less often and actually be making progress.

 

I agree with SG. Big cuts would still not be in order, although at very high doses, because of curved slope of the addiction, some people can make big cuts very early on. A safer start would be maybe try 10%/month, and then 15%, and then 20% but I would be hesitant to go faster than that. You still need time to heal as you go.

 

My 2 cents. Proceed with caution! Sure hope you find something that helps you go forward. You've been waiting so long!

 

Gard

 

P.S. A healthy diet and gentle exercise will help, too. I recommend the book It Starts With Food, which my primary doctor had me read. Very enlightening!

 

Kgirl and Gard, my best to you, and thanks for the input. And Gard, if I could cut 10% in a month I run for joy, become president of the United States, give you a winning lottery ticket, make LSU national champs, cure cancer, put all my psychiatrists over the years out of business, eat Dove chocolate, hug you til you puked, kiss the members of Kiss, get rid of ISIS, swim the English channel, own 100% of the stock in ESPN, punch Trump, do all your house work and yard work for a year, and scream with joy! But, right now I'll take even a 1% cut.

 

Other than that, I wouldn't do much 

 

Love ya!

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Hi all,

 

I'd have to go back and read Jeff's post, but Jeff, you didn't say the chiropractors suggested that you substitute Gabapentin for Klonopin did you?  If they did, then you should completely disregard their advice.  It's nonsense.  Gabapentin is used as an adjunct to withdrawal to ease some sxs and possibly help with sleep.  It has to be tapered but can be done 100 mg at a time.  It is really no big deal...I was taking 600 mg but not only didn't it do much, it caused some edema so I tapered 100 mg a week at a time down to 200 mg around 6 months ago. No w/d, no problem.  I now take 200 mg at bedtime along with my night time dose of K (see sig) and occasionally one extra during the day if I am experiencing a wave.  But really?  It doesn't do much.  I will happily take two weeks to withdraw from it once I'm done with my K taper.

 

But to compare it to Benzos or say it is another benzo type medication is just not so.  Yes, it acts on the gaba receptors, but evidently not in the same way that Benzos do.  Look, all Benzos are controlled substances.  They are addicting.  Gabapentin is not.  Yes, it has to be tapered but it's no big deal. it also doesn't help all that much, as I've said, and could never be confused with the power of a benzo like Klonopin to calm the CNS.

 

Otherwise, I agree with what everyone has already said in terms of a careful taper.  Again, read Colin's advice under general taper plans.  He suggests no more than 5-10% every 7-14 days.  I see no reason why you would want to go slower than that or why you would need to go faster.  My taper has lasted as long as it has because I inserted one long 4 month hold into it as there were things I either wanted or needed to do and didn't think I could do them while tapering.  Can't go back in time...but now I am putting the taper first, as I really want to finish it up this year.

 

And yes, we would all like to get off these powerfully destructive drugs (Benzos) sooner rather than later...but as Gard and KGirl and SG and builder remind us....there is really no choice but to get through it by going through it.  There is almost a relief, I found, in accepting this fact.  No magic.  Just consistent, careful tapering and trying to take care of our overall health as best we can.

 

Thanks, Mana (you too, Builder)! And no, the doc didn't recommend getting completely off the K while taking the Gabapentin. He was just telling me that I could take a good chunk of Gabapentin which would then allow me to taper "much faster" off the K. I'm not exactly sure what'll happen, but I'm a little concerned since I'm so MEGA sensitive to drugs...heck, ANYTHING, for that matter. That's why I haven't been able to cut for so long (well, the severe problems with insomnia, thyroid, heart, and adrenals have played a big role).

 

Prayer and faith!! Bless you and everyone else.

 

Jeff

[[ka...]]

Jeff, by any chance do you know how your liver metabolizes medications? such as the CYP450 test.  You said you are sensitive to meds, i so understand that! I too have tremendous issues with medication. Then discovered through a simple blood test that I am poor metabolizer of the CYP450. Because of my particular issues I am not able to tolerate Gabapentin, lyrica, neurontin, MAOI's, SSRI's.... and such. Just a thought I wanted to share as I was reading what you have posted. I am praying for and yours. ( are you on the faithbased board?)

Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzymes are bound to cell (cyto) membranes that contain a heme pigment (chrome and P). They absorb light at a 450-nanometer wavelength when exposed to carbon monoxide. Responsible for approximately 80% of oxidative drug metabolism, these enzymes metabolize roughly 90% of the drugs in use today. 

[[ga...]]

Hey SG, Builder, Anne...

 

...well, just about anybody, I suppose. First, great to see that you're doing well, Maya. Gard, keep hangin'!! (Anne, you're smokin' this thing!). Same goes for everybody even though a lot of people don't know me since I don't post a lot. I have a lot of physical issues going on that prevent me from cutting, and the financial stress of not being able to work is beyond brutal. My wife has been struggling so much with cancer issues, as well. So, things have been really crazy.

 

Anyway, I talked to someone in the forum by phone last night, but wanted tell and ask you all something too. I remember SG saying so often to "heal faster than you taper". Heck, I'd be happy just to heal my thyroid...or adrenal glands...or heart rhythm!! Insomnia is a massive nut-buster. Well, I was talking to this chiropractor last night who's been helping me with the adrenal issues, gut health, etc. A partner of his was also there with us. The partner went to medical school, but never took med boards because he disagreed with "treating only the symptoms" versus finding the root cause of problems (he's a chiropractor now). This guy told me that he knows quite a bit about addiction and that the K has created all my health issues (really?? I'm surprised), and that I need to get off it asap. He said I can take a med to help me with symptoms etc. so I can get off K fast. He knows of a guy who's double-board certified in psychiatry as well as neurology. He said that the psych guy would probably put me on Gabapentin to help with K sx, and help me get off K SO much faster than what I'm going through right now (which is practically zero). I tried to explain that 22 yrs on a mega dose of K isn't something that MY body can tolerate "fast" at all. Told him about MT. He asked if I really wanted to continue this misery I have (K, thyroid, etc.) for another several years+. Obviously, I don't, but who does? I told him that I was also concerned about adding another med to my benzo regimen. It seems like I've read so much here about drug interaction problems when it comes to MTing benzos.

 

So, what are your thoughts on adding another med to the mix and trying to get my K reduction moving? Specifically, I guess I'm talking about Gabapentin. On the phone last night, I said that my gut-feeling was what SG said...heal faster than you taper (even though I'm not really tapering due to all my other issues). SG, I'd love to hear since you and I are similar in how much benzo we've taken over a similar time period. For those that don't know me, I was at 3+mg/day of K for the first 10 years and then 5-6mg/day for the next 12 or so...22 yrs total. Ridiculous!!! Can't believe I listened to docs for that long, but who knew?! Plus, psychiatrists had me on mega med cocktails to join the benzo over the years. I was definitely a walking pharmacy for over two decades. Missed my daughter's life, not to mention what I didn't give my wife...a good husband. Trying to lean on Faith.

 

Thanks, and my best to all!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jeff

 

Hey, Jeff, I did notice that when I added gabapentin to treat my restless leg syndrome and neuropathy (which were killing me by destroying my sleep), my taper symptoms lessened also. I know I will have to decide some day about tapering it, also. It's sort of like swapping one problem for another or choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

 

Another thing that helped me was partially crossing to L (a weak, annoying benzo compared to V). I was able to stay half crossed for a long time and go at my Xanax faster (I was also at almost nil at the point I started my cross, so "faster" is a relative term) and I got to 15%/month taper with the L and the gabapentin added in.

 

At that point, my psychiatrist wanted me to keep crossing and I was so sick of dosing 6 times/day that I finished my cross and now am on all L. I'm adjusting to that now. L is depressing but I will be cutting it soon.

 

Those are my two experiences with getting going on my taper when I was at almost a standstill. I wanted to taper straight off the X, obviously the best choice, but not one I was able to do. So I chose this route as the lesser of two evils. It is psychologically a boost to be sleeping better and dosing less often and actually be making progress.

 

I agree with SG. Big cuts would still not be in order, although at very high doses, because of curved slope of the addiction, some people can make big cuts very early on. A safer start would be maybe try 10%/month, and then 15%, and then 20% but I would be hesitant to go faster than that. You still need time to heal as you go.

 

My 2 cents. Proceed with caution! Sure hope you find something that helps you go forward. You've been waiting so long!

 

Gard

 

P.S. A healthy diet and gentle exercise will help, too. I recommend the book It Starts With Food, which my primary doctor had me read. Very enlightening!

 

Kgirl and Gard, my best to you, and thanks for the input. And Gard, if I could cut 10% in a month I run for joy, become president of the United States, give you a winning lottery ticket, make LSU national champs, cure cancer, put all my psychiatrists over the years out of business, eat Dove chocolate, hug you til you puked, kiss the members of Kiss, get rid of ISIS, swim the English channel, own 100% of the stock in ESPN, punch Trump, do all your house work and yard work for a year, and scream with joy! But, right now I'll take even a 1% cut.

 

Other than that, I wouldn't do much 

 

Love ya!

 

Jeff

 

Having computer issues, but glad I could come on just now to say 

[[Fr...]]

Hey all, any input on troubles dissolving your pills, in my case Klonopin into milk? . . . I made my dose last night, I'm still adjusting to liquid, day 2 on liquid today. . . and I noticed two of the pills were noticeably undissolved. The other was, however, gone. lol. My girlfriend suggested I add a "mixing bead", or essentially just a glass marble into the jar and shake that around with the milk. She's premed and apparently they did that in a lot of labs to dissolve things.

 

Is this a problem for anyone else? Tips/Tricks to avoiding it?. . . I'm almost positive I took most of my daily dose during my first dosing today, and would like things to be more even in the future. If anyone has any input I'd appreciate it

[[Ul...]]

Jeff, by any chance do you know how your liver metabolizes medications? such as the CYP450 test.  You said you are sensitive to meds, i so understand that! I too have tremendous issues with medication. Then discovered through a simple blood test that I am poor metabolizer of the CYP450. Because of my particular issues I am not able to tolerate Gabapentin, lyrica, neurontin, MAOI's, SSRI's.... and such. Just a thought I wanted to share as I was reading what you have posted. I am praying for and yours. ( are you on the faithbased board?)

Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzymes are bound to cell (cyto) membranes that contain a heme pigment (chrome and P). They absorb light at a 450-nanometer wavelength when exposed to carbon monoxide. Responsible for approximately 80% of oxidative drug metabolism, these enzymes metabolize roughly 90% of the drugs in use today. 

 

Hi Kasey. No, I'm not familiar with how my liver metabolizes meds. I just hang on for dear life and pray for the best!! I'm not on the faithbased board either. I didn't even know that existed, so thanks! I've never really been to many other threads on this site because it would just tend to freak me out. I'm having a really slow and difficult time with all this MT mainly due to the complexity of my case with multiple physical problems from the long-term benzo use and high amount. Like I always say, it'll be O.K. in the end.

 

Bless ya!

 

Jeff

[[ka...]]

Bless you, i am praying.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97364.0

[[Kg...]]

Jeff:  In reading your signature it looks a lot like my friend NYC Wave Runner's who posts on the klonopin support group.  I think she was on the same amt as you and also other things as well. If you look at her signature you can see she has been able to get off using cut and hold. You may want to PM her since she has lots of good ideas about how to do this. I think she said the higher doses for her were the hardest and now that she is lower she is feeling better.  Just a thought to get help from buddies who have been where you are now and are having success on their tapers.  I know she is back to work now so she may not answer you right away or post on the K board she comes there often. 

[[ca...]]

Jeff, by any chance do you know how your liver metabolizes medications? such as the CYP450 test.  You said you are sensitive to meds, i so understand that! I too have tremendous issues with medication. Then discovered through a simple blood test that I am poor metabolizer of the CYP450. Because of my particular issues I am not able to tolerate Gabapentin, lyrica, neurontin, MAOI's, SSRI's.... and such. Just a thought I wanted to share as I was reading what you have posted. I am praying for and yours. ( are you on the faithbased board?)

Cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzymes are bound to cell (cyto) membranes that contain a heme pigment (chrome and P). They absorb light at a 450-nanometer wavelength when exposed to carbon monoxide. Responsible for approximately 80% of oxidative drug metabolism, these enzymes metabolize roughly 90% of the drugs in use today. 

 

Hi Kasey. No, I'm not familiar with how my liver metabolizes meds. I just hang on for dear life and pray for the best!! I'm not on the faithbased board either. I didn't even know that existed, so thanks! I've never really been to many other threads on this site because it would just tend to freak me out. I'm having a really slow and difficult time with all this MT mainly due to the complexity of my case with multiple physical problems from the long-term benzo use and high amount. Like I always say, it'll be O.K. in the end.

 

Bless ya!

 

Jeff

Jeff, i was on k a long time so if ya have any questions i may be of some help ! I did a partial c/o to v and it does help coming off the k !~CD