Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Hi gang. Too quiet on this thread today! I've been on all L for a week and am actually going to try a cut and hold tomorrow…unless chicken out before that. I really want to get that annoying half capsule of Librium I'm liquifying out of my life. With my daughter off of school, this seems to be a good time to try something off-the-wall. But only  a little off-the-wall. My cut will be just 6.7% and I'll hold 3 weeks because I have no idea how long it will take to feel the effects of the L. This is all new to me.

 

I'm actually feeling better today after a week of worse and worse since stopping the X. Truly awful yesterday but just a bit anxious today. Depression is lifting but I'm still irritable, which I guess is part of depression. We'll see what tomorrow holds.

 

I've been reading more about the Ashton method. Some people say they feel no difference between daily micro-cuts and cut-and-hold. And some people seem to do better on cut and hold just because they think less about their taper that way, so the psychological effect is different. All very interesting and no way to know until I try it.

 

I predict I'll be back here repenting in a few days!   Meanwhile, with the awful weather we're expecting, this is as good a time as any to be stuck at home feeling awful. I may stay indoors until spring! I think I say that every January, but it never works.

 

A window-ful Sunday to All! And for you football fans, hope your team wins this weekend (unless it's playing my team).

 

Gard

[[my...]]

Gard,

Not sure where you are starting with your Librium, but 6.7% is a pretty healthy cut.  Is there a particular reason you chose that amount?  Possibly b/c it is the equivalent of an easily split pill?  Just wondering.  Even with cut and hold, it is useful to have a gram scale..maybe you have one and if you do, then possibly think about cutting 5% for your first cut of L and working up from there if that goes well.  Just a thought.

 

For example, my current plan is 5% every 10 days.  Today I made another cut and in the earlier hours of the day, I felt really optimistic.  Hopeful. The feeling passed as some sxs checked in  , but it was nice after being anxious about another cut.

 

Just for the record, I tried a MT in early December.  It didn't work that well for me, or maybe I didn't give it enough time.  Not sure.  I may well return to MT later on down the line.  In any case, I am into the .5's and for me...by February if things go as expected...I'll be AT .5mg and will have reduced my daily total of K by 75%. 

 

The road for us is too long, but luckily we have a lot of support here on BB. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do tomorrow...

 

Mana 

[[ga...]]

Gard,

Not sure where you are starting with your Librium, but 6.7% is a pretty healthy cut.  Is there a particular reason you chose that amount?  Possibly b/c it is the equivalent of an easily split pill?  Just wondering.  Even with cut and hold, it is useful to have a gram scale..maybe you have one and if you do, then possibly think about cutting 5% for your first cut of L and working up from there if that goes well.  Just a thought.

 

For example, my current plan is 5% every 10 days.  Today I made another cut and in the earlier hours of the day, I felt really optimistic.  Hopeful. The feeling passed as some sxs checked in  , but it was nice after being anxious about another cut.

 

Just for the record, I tried a MT in early December.  It didn't work that well for me, or maybe I didn't give it enough time.  Not sure.  I may well return to MT later on down the line.  In any case, I am into the .5's and for me...by February if things go as expected...I'll be AT .5mg and will have reduced my daily total of K by 75%. 

 

The road for us is too long, but luckily we have a lot of support here on BB. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do tomorrow...

 

Mana 

 

Hi Mana. I'm at 37 1/2mg of L. L is like a weak form of V. L only comes is capsules. The smallest is 5mg. So, I'm getting rid of that annoying 1/2 capsule. I believe 1/2 capsule cut is 6.7%. I plan to wait 3 weeks and then decide what to do next. Ashton is actually cutting whole capsules out at this point in her chart. She is very aggressive and I wonder if anyone is able to follow this!

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s11

 

I will only have whole capsules to take during this experiment. I know 5% would be an ideal experiment, but would leave me having to liquify and the idea is to not have to liquify capsules for the next 3 weeks.

 

Sounds like you are doing well reducing your K. I guess I'm at about half of my drug gone now and it's been nearly a year. I'm hoping it goes better with the L. The X was brutal once I got to 1.3mg/day. I could only cut 5%/month and still suffered a lot. The L I added helped me get up to 15%/month. Now I'm all L and hoping to be able to do 20%. This experiment will help me know if the L is going to be easier, what kind of symptoms to expect, how long they take to appear, etc.  It's a whole new ballgame tapering a slow benzo.

 

BTW I would never, never try this on X!

 

Have a window-ful Sunday!

 

Gard

 

 

[[my...]]

Got it!  Thanks for sharing the info with me.  Sounds completely reasonable, given L's properties.  Xanax is tough to taper so BIG congrats to you for THAT accomplishment. Seriously. Hopefully the L taper will be much easier.  Don't blame you one bit for not wanting to do liquid...neither do I..and I won't, even though I may return to a dry cut MT at some point.

 

Yeah, I am doing alright.  Today has not been fun as am feeling the cut.  Odd, as I usually don't feel it this soon.  Shaky, anxious, some ear stuff.  Wish I could go faster but concerned my worst symptoms might drag on for months post taper....I'd rather take this route and hopefully step off (everyone's wish, right?).  Meanwhile, it's hard as this process seems endless - even though we KNOW it will end eventually. 

 

Happy here for more (unexpected) rain!

 

Mana

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ga...]]

After several people advised, I decided to hold one more week before cutting again. But I'm only going to liquify once/day. My doses won't be perfectly even, but the twice/day liquifying was really driving me crazy!

 

Sorry to hear you're in a wave. Remember, healing still happens in a wave. In fact, a wave can mean your brain is gearing up for some serious healing!

 

We can do this!

 

Gard

[[ka...]]

Yeah, I am doing alright.  Today has not been fun as am feeling the cut.  Odd, as I usually don't feel it this soon.  Shaky, anxious, some ear stuff.  Wish I could go faster but concerned my worst symptoms might drag on for months post taper....I'd rather take this route and hopefully step off (everyone's wish, right?).  Meanwhile, it's hard as this process seems endless - even though we KNOW it will end eventually. 

Mana

 

Hi guys,  been following you all for a while and want to thank you for the encouragement. I highlighted  Mana's words above as i know we all feel/have felt that way. i too struggle with wanting this to come to a quick end, yet... slow is best. Oh my brain screams get off, get off this crazy med. the battle to do what is best and the desire to taper quickly. Yep there in-lies the struggle. Perseverance has become my word to cling to. i am trying so hard not to look down the road with a negative attitude of how long it will take. so i make myself focus only today and getting through each moment. that brings me back to thanking you for the many people you are encouraging who simply just read these heartfelt post and not respond. you will never know how many people you all have helped by being our voice when we simply could not put two words together or spell our name.  you have empathized when others could not. Sadly, there is great comfort in knowing we are not alone in this trial and we will overcome! so thank you

[[my...]]

Wow...kasey...your post made my night and I'm sure made a lot of us who do manage to write stuff more often feel very good.  I think if Colin, who founded BBs, could read your post it would reinforce what an important forum he has provided for so many.

Thank you for your kind words.

[[my...]]

BTW....wave pretty much ended...smoother waters now close to bedtime...love the idea that a wave can be the forerunner of healing.  Good night 

[[my...]]

BTW....wave pretty much ended...smoother waters now close to bedtime...love the idea that a wave can be the forerunner of healing.  Good night 

[[ga...]]

Great reminder, Kasey. Thank you!

[[ga...]]

OK, so I am back here repenting already. I guess I am still feeling the Xanax going out of me because I'm having having waves of depression and spikes of anxiety and cog fog much more than usual. But it seems that each wave is a little bit less. Decided to hold at 7 1/2 capsules for at least another week.

 

Over on the titration forum, SG helped me figure out how to liquid titrate that darn half capsule properly and I'm getting better at it. I think I just have to bite the bullet and figure out the best time of day for me to mix up the med every day and not let it sit around more than 24 hours. (Did find a few studies showing L is not stable in liquids for very long, so can't mix ahead like I did with the Xanax.)

 

Kasey's reminders came at just the right time for me, too. After being on X for so long and having the slight comfort that it doesn't accumulate much, it's very hard for me to be putting this much of an accumulating benzo in me day after day. That's why I wanted to try a bigger cut. I wanted to put less L into me every day. And I wanted to do it while my daughter is here on winter break. But it looks like that's not going to happen. Still feeling the X and need to hold for awhile before I try to push onward.

 

Thank you to all the sensible voices that keep me on track and all the words of encouragement.

 

Meanwhile. I've been wondering how everybody is doing in the New Year. If you're reading this, please pop in and let us know! This includes you guys (builder, Sharkey, SG, Jeff, etc.) who are usually helping and rarely telling us how you're doing yourself. We do wonder, you know!!

 

A window-ful day to all.

 

Gard

[[my...]]

Good morning to all!

YES, I'm with Gard...wanting to connect with..especially SG...and builder...I hope you know how much your precise and sound, down to earth thinking has helped us.  SG, please don't think I've tossed all the work you did and information you gave me as I was trying a daily MT.  For example, I have calculated all my doses at 5% using the 2.9 x gram weight = mg wt.  I am weighing in grams (using the .5’s) then converting to mg to see where I am.  Also dividing total daily dose by three, then weighing on the gram scale every night for the following day.  I often smile - as I grit my teeth!! - at the way the numbers bounce around before settling....you were the one who first described this to me as I only began weighing recently.

 

So, yes, wanting to know how you are doing. 

Gard, seems like you have figured out a plan. 

 

Feeling well this a.m.  On to the day. 

 

Mana

[[ka...]]

Hey SG,  a huge shout out of thanks!! once upon a time as a newbie, you were the first to respond to my cry for help w/ tapering!!! i will forever be thanking God for how he used you to help me. 

[[Fr...]]

Hey everyone, wanted to introduce myself. . . I'm going to try to Daily taper off of 1.5mg Klonopin. starting at .4ml/day. I was wondering how everyone goes about doing this? I calculated .4ml/day to be around 8%, so after 30 days I'd be at 1.38, from there do I stay at .4ml/day? dropping consisently .12mg a month? or is there some sorta math or secret spreadsheet that I'm unaware of ?

[[bl...]]

Hi everyone.

 

For fellow valium taperers, when settling on a daily cut amount, what are your experiences as to how long it takes to feel the effects of the cut?

 

Even within the bounds of valium's long half-life, there seems to be a variability to this from person to person. I'm new enough to micro tapering that I'm still trying to figure this out for myself.

 

I'd love to hear what people's personal experiences are.

[[Fr...]]

Hi everyone, I'd be really interested to know what ml you all started with during your tapers, and what you dropped to towards the end of your tapers. I know everyone is different but just thought I'd ask. For instance, I plan on starting at .4ml/day and feeling that out. . . SG has told me that I may be able to go quicker, I just have to see, but that I will almost certainly need to slow down towards the end. . .

 

I'm wondering how much everyone slowed down for the most part, or if you were able to tolerate a static amount for your entire taper?

[[jr...]]

Hi everyone, I'd be really interested to know what ml you all started with during your tapers, and what you dropped to towards the end of your tapers. I know everyone is different but just thought I'd ask. For instance, I plan on starting at .4ml/day and feeling that out. . . SG has told me that I may be able to go quicker, I just have to see, but that I will almost certainly need to slow down towards the end. . .

 

I'm wondering how much everyone slowed down for the most part, or if you were able to tolerate a static amount for your entire taper?

 

I started at 1.75mg of xanax. you can read my sig to see where I am now. I plan to jump around the end of March!

[[...]]

Meanwhile. I've been wondering how everybody is doing in the New Year. If you're reading this, please pop in and let us know! This includes you guys (builder, Sharkey, SG, Jeff, etc.) who are usually helping and rarely telling us how you're doing yourself. We do wonder, you know!!

 

A window-ful day to all.

 

Gard

 

Thanks for asking.  I don't have much need or interest in talking about my symptoms.  I know time will take care of it so that's about all I need to know.  So I ignore and distract and let time pass.

 

I'm doing a little better lately.  Not much, but an increase none the less.  These symptoms are stubborn and I just can't seem to get beyond them.  I passed 35 months free a few days ago.  Still the same set of symptoms I've been entrenched in all along.  Sleep has been level and unimproved for the past two years...about 5-6 broken hours a night.  It is enough to remain healthy, but not at all my old normal.  I think I'm healing somewhere between 1.5-2% a month, so perhaps six more to get out of the woods and then a year or two beyond that to finish up.  What a long road.

[[ga...]]

Meanwhile. I've been wondering how everybody is doing in the New Year. If you're reading this, please pop in and let us know! This includes you guys (builder, Sharkey, SG, Jeff, etc.) who are usually helping and rarely telling us how you're doing yourself. We do wonder, you know!!

 

A window-ful day to all.

 

Gard

 

Thanks for asking.  I don't have much need or interest in talking about my symptoms.  I know time will take care of it so that's about all I need to know.  So I ignore and distract and let time pass.

 

I'm doing a little better lately.  Not much, but an increase none the less.  These symptoms are stubborn and I just can't seem to get beyond them.  I passed 35 months free a few days ago.  Still the same set of symptoms I've been entrenched in all along.  Sleep has been level and unimproved for the past two years...about 5-6 broken hours a night.  It is enough to remain healthy, but not at all my old normal.  I think I'm healing somewhere between 1.5-2% a month, so perhaps six more to get out of the woods and then a year or two beyond that to finish up.  What a long road.

 

Thanks for responding, SG. I'm glad you're seeing little movements forward. Your story is much like lookingforward's. She sees slow, slow progress. She distracts by campaigning for benzodiazepine awareness and blogging about her imaginary critters. Craziest blog on Benzo Buddies! I believe her furry friends just came back from a trip to see Dr. Who. Or was it Santa? I can't keep track. 

 

I really sympathize with you on the sleep thing! 5-6 broken hours is not enough for the body and the brain to heal on. I was getting 0-2 at my bottom and 3-4 at my top until I gave up and started taking sleep meds. Every third night I try to go low med so I don't get too hooked on them. Tonight is one of those nights. Going to be a long one for sure! I just try to stay awake as long as I can and watch reruns of old TV shows. Maybe Andy Griffith tonight.

 

Thanks, too, for your help here. There are some newbies on this thread, but I think they are also on the titration thread getting help, which is where the action seems to be these days. I often wonder how Sharkey is doing. Hopefully he'll pop in and give us an update some day. DO YOU HEAR THAT SHARKEY???

 

Ah, there goes my med alarm. How nice to only hear it twice a day now.

 

Gard

[[Fr...]]

Hi everyone, I'd be really interested to know what ml you all started with during your tapers, and what you dropped to towards the end of your tapers. I know everyone is different but just thought I'd ask. For instance, I plan on starting at .4ml/day and feeling that out. . . SG has told me that I may be able to go quicker, I just have to see, but that I will almost certainly need to slow down towards the end. . .

 

I'm wondering how much everyone slowed down for the most part, or if you were able to tolerate a static amount for your entire taper?

 

I started at 1.75mg of xanax. you can read my sig to see where I am now. I plan to jump around the end of March!

 

Wow, you seem to be going quite quickly, are you holding up alright? Doing a microtaper I assume since you're posting in this thread. What ml reductions have you been using? I'm very happy for you. March is not too far off, regardless of what condition you're in - keep pushing through! And please go slow if you need to! After reading I'm starting to believe that perhaps slower is actually faster in the grand scheme of things - But if you're functioning at a level you expect to be, more power to you

[[...]]

Wow, you seem to be going quite quickly, are you holding up alright? Doing a microtaper I assume since you're posting in this thread. What ml reductions have you been using? I'm very happy for you. March is not too far off, regardless of what condition you're in - keep pushing through! And please go slow if you need to! After reading I'm starting to believe that perhaps slower is actually faster in the grand scheme of things - But if you're functioning at a level you expect to be, more power to you

 

Without a doubt.  Slower is not only more comfortable, it is faster.  Longer lasting damage is caused by exceeding your limits, which takes time to heal after the taper is over.

[[ga...]]

Wow, you seem to be going quite quickly, are you holding up alright? Doing a microtaper I assume since you're posting in this thread. What ml reductions have you been using? I'm very happy for you. March is not too far off, regardless of what condition you're in - keep pushing through! And please go slow if you need to! After reading I'm starting to believe that perhaps slower is actually faster in the grand scheme of things - But if you're functioning at a level you expect to be, more power to you

 

Without a doubt.  Slower is not only more comfortable, it is faster.  Longer lasting damage is caused by exceeding your limits, which takes time to heal after the taper is over.

 

:thumbsup:

[[my...]]

I third SG's opinion and Gard's thumbs up!!  Wrote to you on the KK page as well in more detail. 

 

SG, have you had any luck with Benadryl for sleep? Some can't take it but I have been taking one Benadryl (generic) at bedtime since tapering...hope eventually I will be able to sleep without it but at least it is not physically addictive.  And I am very glad to read that you are progressively getting better...hard to be patient...I know! 

 

Mana 

[[...]]

I third SG's opinion and Gard's thumbs up!!  Wrote to you on the KK page as well in more detail. 

 

SG, have you had any luck with Benadryl for sleep? Some can't take it but I have been taking one Benadryl (generic) at bedtime since tapering...hope eventually I will be able to sleep without it but at least it is not physically addictive.  And I am very glad to read that you are progressively getting better...hard to be patient...I know! 

 

Mana 

 

Sleep aids wear out quickly for me - one or two nights - so I gave up and just tough it out with sleep hygiene.  I keep myself awake til bedtime and go to bed about the same time every night, white noise, very dark, etc.  I'm surprised my sleep progress stopped.  It improved greatly at first, but has not changed in a couple of years.

[[ga...]]

I third SG's opinion and Gard's thumbs up!!  Wrote to you on the KK page as well in more detail. 

 

SG, have you had any luck with Benadryl for sleep? Some can't take it but I have been taking one Benadryl (generic) at bedtime since tapering...hope eventually I will be able to sleep without it but at least it is not physically addictive.  And I am very glad to read that you are progressively getting better...hard to be patient...I know! 

 

Mana 

 

Sleep aids wear out quickly for me - one or two nights - so I gave up and just tough it out with sleep hygiene.  I keep myself awake til bedtime and go to bed about the same time every night, white noise, very dark, etc.  I'm surprised my sleep progress stopped.  It improved greatly at first, but has not changed in a couple of years.

 

Me, too. OTC sleep aids never did a thing and I have to take breaks from my prescription antihistamines or they wear out, too.