Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[my...]]

Yes, it seems to be universal, huh? 

 

JR, is that .004 mgs or grams?  I am cutting .001 gram two days, then holding the third day: C/C/H.

I hope to be able to go .001 daily if symptoms allow, by the first of Jan - which would be .003 mg daily. (at least I think that's right - anyone? SG?) Just curious and trying to suggest options...

 

Nice to hear "only .5 mg to go" as a good thing!  So many posts about people beginning at that amount or how hard the last .5 is.....good to remember how far we've come!  If we can go from a higher dose (in my case 2 mg) to .5 then we can surely get to zero in one piece!!!!

 

 

Hope your Sundays are clear with windows

 

 

 

 

[[jr...]]

Yes, it seems to be universal, huh? 

 

JR, is that .004 mgs or grams?  I am cutting .001 gram two days, then holding the third day: C/C/H.

I hope to be able to go .001 daily if symptoms allow, by the first of Jan - which would be .003 mg daily. (at least I think that's right - anyone? SG?) Just curious and trying to suggest options...

 

Nice to hear "only .5 mg to go" as a good thing!  So many posts about people beginning at that amount or how hard the last .5 is.....good to remember how far we've come!  If we can go from a higher dose (in my case 2 mg) to .5 then we can surely get to zero in one piece!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

that .004 would be grams. I am currently taking about .467 mg a day down from 1.75mg a day. It has been a hard road. I started in july of this year and only have a bit to go. I worry about jumping and protracted withdrawals but I would rather be dead than addicted!!! I was given this mess to quit smoking. Hope it was worth it!

 

 

 

Hope your Sundays are clear with windows

[[an...]]

 

Sorry to hear this, but, yes, that does seem to be the way it goes. 

 

Thanks Gardner.  Hope you are having a decent day. 

Anne 

[[my...]]

JR,

Unbelievable that anyone  (doctor? Clinic?)would prescribe a benzo to help a patient quit smoking...it's a controlled substance for a reason!!  Not that most docs will really take the time to explain WHY or what happens when you try and stop taking it. Especially if you din't ask.  I didn't ask. 

 

BTW, how long were you taking Xanax?  Just curious.  If you are having a rough patch, or it has been a difficult taper I would definitely keep it slow because you do NOT want protracted w/d.  It is essentially withdrawal with no tapering.  Why not taper a little more gradually, try for a symptom free or very mild and occasional sxs taper and then when you are done, you are DONE.  Dead is one thing, and many can relate.....but protracted suffering??  Uh-uh...bad idea.  Right, fellow BB's??

 

[[jr...]]

JR,

Unbelievable that anyone  (doctor? Clinic?)would prescribe a benzo to help a patient quit smoking...it's a controlled substance for a reason!!  Not that most docs will really take the time to explain WHY or what happens when you try and stop taking it. Especially if you din't ask.  I didn't ask. 

 

BTW, how long were you taking Xanax?  Just curious.  If you are having a rough patch, or it has been a difficult taper I would definitely keep it slow because you do NOT want protracted w/d.  It is essentially withdrawal with no tapering.  Why not taper a little more gradually, try for a symptom free or very mild and occasional sxs taper and then when you are done, you are DONE.  Dead is one thing, and many can relate.....but protracted suffering??  Uh-uh...bad idea.  Right, fellow BB's??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he said I had to quit smoking and kept me on the xanax for 7 years. when it quit working, all he could do was send me to the er where they looked at me like I was a drug addict and all I ever did was take my prescribed dose of .5 x 3 times a day. ended up with a pdoc who lets me taper at my own pace. But recently my reduced dosages are becoming somewhat toxic. I think it is depression causing it but dont know for sure. It is elevating my anxiety every time I take a dose. Have anyone else had this problem and what did you do? I just bear it as much as possible and try to distract myself.

[[my...]]

I don't think the doses are becoming toxic, it's' just that you are dealing with withdrawal. What is toxic is having the drug in your system to begin with.  The decrease in Xanax is causing your CNS to demand more benzo...it's pretty simple unless you are feeling fine, physically and there is actually something going on in your life that would cause serious depression and anxiety.  Often it is withdrawal and you may be experiencing a wave.  Or, you may be depressed and anxious which I certainly have been on occasion before Klonopin, during the period I took Klonopin and certainly now that I am tapering.  Some times it is circumstantial and some times I think it is withdrawal.  And some times it doesn't matter what is causing it, you just need a way to help you feel alright and that way is different for everyone and even different for the same people under different circumstances!

 

Think a bit about what is going on in your life and choose....or just distract yourself for a few hours and see if the feeling goes away.  Remember, it is a feeling, just a feeling -- and it will pass.

 

 

[[an...]]

JR,

Unbelievable that anyone  (doctor? Clinic?)would prescribe a benzo to help a patient quit smoking...it's a controlled substance for a reason!!  Not that most docs will really take the time to explain WHY or what happens when you try and stop taking it. Especially if you din't ask.  I didn't ask. 

 

BTW, how long were you taking Xanax?  Just curious.  If you are having a rough patch, or it has been a difficult taper I would definitely keep it slow because you do NOT want protracted w/d.  It is essentially withdrawal with no tapering.  Why not taper a little more gradually, try for a symptom free or very mild and occasional sxs taper and then when you are done, you are DONE.  Dead is one thing, and many can relate.....but protracted suffering??  Uh-uh...bad idea.  Right, fellow BB's??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he said I had to quit smoking and kept me on the xanax for 7 years. when it quit working, all he could do was send me to the er where they looked at me like I was a drug addict and all I ever did was take my prescribed dose of .5 x 3 times a day. ended up with a pdoc who lets me taper at my own pace. But recently my reduced dosages are becoming somewhat toxic. I think it is depression causing it but dont know for sure. It is elevating my anxiety every time I take a dose. Have anyone else had this problem and what did you do? I just bear it as much as possible and try to distract myself.

 

JR,

 

It looks like your cuts are too large.  Your last cut was about 16%.  The  previous one about 27%.  I would not be able to function  if I cut by that much. 

 

Anne

[[...]]

JR,

Unbelievable that anyone  (doctor? Clinic?)would prescribe a benzo to help a patient quit smoking...it's a controlled substance for a reason!!  Not that most docs will really take the time to explain WHY or what happens when you try and stop taking it. Especially if you din't ask.  I didn't ask. 

 

BTW, how long were you taking Xanax?  Just curious.  If you are having a rough patch, or it has been a difficult taper I would definitely keep it slow because you do NOT want protracted w/d.  It is essentially withdrawal with no tapering.  Why not taper a little more gradually, try for a symptom free or very mild and occasional sxs taper and then when you are done, you are DONE.  Dead is one thing, and many can relate.....but protracted suffering??  Uh-uh...bad idea.  Right, fellow BB's??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he said I had to quit smoking and kept me on the xanax for 7 years. when it quit working, all he could do was send me to the er where they looked at me like I was a drug addict and all I ever did was take my prescribed dose of .5 x 3 times a day. ended up with a pdoc who lets me taper at my own pace. But recently my reduced dosages are becoming somewhat toxic. I think it is depression causing it but dont know for sure. It is elevating my anxiety every time I take a dose. Have anyone else had this problem and what did you do? I just bear it as much as possible and try to distract myself.

 

Hi JR,

  I tend to agree with mymana as far as the possibility of feeling w/d's as opposed to feeling toxic. I have taken Xanax for 14yrs for anxiety that become very apparent during nursing school. I just retired as an RN a couple years ago and tried CT off Xanax, no can do. I had taken the prescribed dosage of 2 mg a day that whole time and was having interdose w/d but chalked it up to job stress. It was last Jan when I tried c/t, was clueless about it. I didn't see any reason to take it anymore. After three days I reinstated and started tapering, C&H. When I reached .5mg I had to start liquid micro taper because the w/d sx's were getting stronger, I couldn't tolerate them, Went to dividing my dose to four times a day, that helped. But I have noticed the smaller my dose, the slower I have to go and with smaller cuts, like a half a percent every three days. Just yesterday I changed to the half percent after talking with Anne here. I had been suffering very badly for almost a week. Every cut I made I felt for days. Just the last two days I am feeling better. I'm having to hold longer to stabilize also. Just be aware you may half to slow down and make your cuts smaller the closer you get to jumping. That is a very common occurance for many- it gets harder at the end. Good Luck, Rose B

[[jr...]]

JR,

Unbelievable that anyone  (doctor? Clinic?)would prescribe a benzo to help a patient quit smoking...it's a controlled substance for a reason!!  Not that most docs will really take the time to explain WHY or what happens when you try and stop taking it. Especially if you din't ask.  I didn't ask. 

 

BTW, how long were you taking Xanax?  Just curious.  If you are having a rough patch, or it has been a difficult taper I would definitely keep it slow because you do NOT want protracted w/d.  It is essentially withdrawal with no tapering.  Why not taper a little more

gradually, try for a symptom free or very mild and occasional sxs taper and then when you are done, you are DONE.  Dead is one thing, and many can relate.....but protracted suffering??  Uh-uh...bad idea.  Right, fellow B

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for all the advice. I will slow my taper down. I guess I just got used to cutting .004g a day and didnt think I was increasing the amount of my cut. I think once the day is near to jump, we anticipate it and want to get there in a hurry. Last week, I woke up and kew the addiction was over. I felt so great and this week has been murder! I had depression all my life but now the benzos want to magnify it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he said I had to quit smoking and kept me on the xanax for 7 years. when it quit working, all he could do was send me to the er where they looked at me like I was a drug addict and all I ever did was take my prescribed dose of .5 x 3 times a day. ended up with a pdoc who lets me taper at my own pace. But recently my reduced dosages are becoming somewhat toxic. I think it is depression causing it but dont know for sure. It is elevating my anxiety every time I take a dose. Have anyone else had this problem and what did you do? I just bear it as much as possible and try to distract myself.

 

Hi JR,

  I tend to agree with mymana as far as the possibility of feeling w/d's as opposed to feeling toxic. I have taken Xanax for 14yrs for anxiety that become very apparent during nursing school. I just retired as an RN a couple years ago and tried CT off Xanax, no can do. I had taken the prescribed dosage of 2 mg a day that whole time and was having interdose w/d but chalked it up to job stress. It was last Jan when I tried c/t, was clueless about it. I didn't see any reason to take it anymore. After three days I reinstated and started tapering, C&H. When I reached .5mg I had to start liquid micro taper because the w/d sx's were getting stronger, I couldn't tolerate them, Went to dividing my dose to four times a day, that helped. But I have noticed the smaller my dose, the slower I have to go and with smaller cuts, like a half a percent every three days. Just yesterday I changed to the half percent after talking with Anne here. I had been suffering very badly for almost a week. Every cut I made I felt for days. Just the last two days I am feeling better. I'm having to hold longer to stabilize also. Just be aware you may half to slow down and make your cuts smaller the closer you get to jumping. That is a very common occurance for many- it gets harder at the end. Good Luck, Rose B

[[an...]]

JR,

Unbelievable that anyone  (doctor? Clinic?)would prescribe a benzo to help a patient quit smoking...it's a controlled substance for a reason!!  Not that most docs will really take the time to explain WHY or what happens when you try and stop taking it. Especially if you din't ask.  I didn't ask. 

 

BTW, how long were you taking Xanax?  Just curious.  If you are having a rough patch, or it has been a difficult taper I would definitely keep it slow because you do NOT want protracted w/d.  It is essentially withdrawal with no tapering.  Why not taper a little more

gradually, try for a symptom free or very mild and occasional sxs taper and then when you are done, you are DONE.  Dead is one thing, and many can relate.....but protracted suffering??  Uh-uh...bad idea.  Right, fellow B

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for all the advice. I will slow my taper down. I guess I just got used to cutting .004g a day and didnt think I was increasing the amount of my cut. I think once the day is near to jump, we anticipate it and want to get there in a hurry. Last week, I woke up and kew the addiction was over. I felt so great and this week has been murder! I had depression all my life but now the benzos want to magnify it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he said I had to quit smoking and kept me on the xanax for 7 years. when it quit working, all he could do was send me to the er where they looked at me like I was a drug addict and all I ever did was take my prescribed dose of .5 x 3 times a day. ended up with a pdoc who lets me taper at my own pace. But recently my reduced dosages are becoming somewhat toxic. I think it is depression causing it but dont know for sure. It is elevating my anxiety every time I take a dose. Have anyone else had this problem and what did you do? I just bear it as much as possible and try to distract myself.

 

Hi JR,

  I tend to agree with mymana as far as the possibility of feeling w/d's as opposed to feeling toxic. I have taken Xanax for 14yrs for anxiety that become very apparent during nursing school. I just retired as an RN a couple years ago and tried CT off Xanax, no can do. I had taken the prescribed dosage of 2 mg a day that whole time and was having interdose w/d but chalked it up to job stress. It was last Jan when I tried c/t, was clueless about it. I didn't see any reason to take it anymore. After three days I reinstated and started tapering, C&H. When I reached .5mg I had to start liquid micro taper because the w/d sx's were getting stronger, I couldn't tolerate them, Went to dividing my dose to four times a day, that helped. But I have noticed the smaller my dose, the slower I have to go and with smaller cuts, like a half a percent every three days. Just yesterday I changed to the half percent after talking with Anne here. I had been suffering very badly for almost a week. Every cut I made I felt for days. Just the last two days I am feeling better. I'm having to hold longer to stabilize also. Just be aware you may half to slow down and make your cuts smaller the closer you get to jumping. That is a very common occurance for many- it gets harder at the end. Good Luck, Rose B

 

JR,

 

Yes, the large cuts are the problem.  As you get lower in dose, you need to decease the cuts.  Your last cut was 16% so you will most likely need to cut no more than 0.003 or 0.002 mg/day.  If you experience symptoms as you get lower, you will need to reduce the cuts by more.

 

 

 

[[jr...]]

I thank you all for the advice. Just knowing that I have cut too much makes me feel better. I will hold at this amount until next monday and then reduce by 10% over the week. I do so appreciate the advice. I have been working part time since retiring after 42 years in public work for the same company. I took a leave for 2 weeks to get straightened out. It looks like we all are in a fight for freedom and every little bit of advice gets us closer to the finish.

[[mo...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been around much as I was experiencing constant migralepsy episodes, then I got shingles right after I got after my flu shot so I had to hold for quite awhile. While I was holding the migralepsy episodes went away completely and so, finally, did the shingles!

 

Then I cut .25 mgs by .03 mgs per day for 8 days, and .01 mg one day, and BOOM, I'm now in constant tachycardia...I just don't get it. I'm on a liquid titration made from 1 ml of 151 proof alcohol, 99 mls of water and 1 mg (half a 2 mg tablet) of Diazepam. How can such a little cut hit me so fast and so hard?! I actually have a graph from my FitBit Heart Rate tracker AND my Alive Core EKG tracker showing the steady rise in my resting heart rate from 63 beats per minute up to 91 BPM over a 6 day period starting almost as soon as I reached that .25 mg cut mark.

 

Am I nuts or can such a small cut (I went from 4.75 to 4.5) REALLY make that much difference? My docs are having me hold AGAIN now until my heart rate slows down...at this rate am I ever going to get off this stuff?

 

My concern is also that, having been on V for so long now since crossing over from Lorazepam 12 months ago, this might be benzo toxicity (since it can build up in your body)...or is it just plain old w/d?

 

Thanks for any advice or feedback!

 

Mo

[[de...]]

SG

 

Just got back from my doc and he feels as though i changed to soon to the .5mg cause of the weight amounts being so close to my cuts and he put me back on the 1mg until i am lower down in the cuts..i have been really sick and ended up at the er on saturday and they had to do some testing..first time that has happened since i have started this taper..didnt know that feeling like you have a big lump in your throat was a s/x and having a headache and feeling weak at the same time went together for some.

 

so if you could please tell me what my cuts would be with the 1mg tabs or would i just take the dose i was at on the .5mgs and double the number and then just go back to the c/c/h that i was doing?

 

thanks so much for all the help you not only give me but to everyone here 

 

deep

[[...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been around much as I was experiencing constant migralepsy episodes, then I got shingles right after I got after my flu shot so I had to hold for quite awhile. While I was holding the migralepsy episodes went away completely and so, finally, did the shingles!

 

Then I cut .25 mgs by .03 mgs per day for 8 days, and .01 mg one day, and BOOM, I'm now in constant tachycardia...I just don't get it. I'm on a liquid titration made from 1 ml of 151 proof alcohol, 99 mls of water and 1 mg (half a 2 mg tablet) of Diazepam. How can such a little cut hit me so fast and so hard?! I actually have a graph from my FitBit Heart Rate tracker AND my Alive Core EKG tracker showing the steady rise in my resting heart rate from 63 beats per minute up to 91 BPM over a 6 day period starting almost as soon as I reached that .25 mg cut mark.

 

Am I nuts or can such a small cut (I went from 4.75 to 4.5) REALLY make that much difference? My docs are having me hold AGAIN now until my heart rate slows down...at this rate am I ever going to get off this stuff?

 

My concern is also that, having been on V for so long now since crossing over from Lorazepam 12 months ago, this might be benzo toxicity (since it can build up in your body)...or is it just plain old w/d?

 

Thanks for any advice or feedback!

 

Mo

 

.25mg over six days extrapolates to over 20% a month at a dose of 4.75mg.  It really is not that slow.  In fact it is kind of fast at your dose.

 

Another thing to consider is if anything is different that could have affected your taper, like other meds or new foods.  These things can affect benzo blood levels and bring on symptoms.

[[...]]

SG

 

Just got back from my doc and he feels as though i changed to soon to the .5mg cause of the weight amounts being so close to my cuts and he put me back on the 1mg until i am lower down in the cuts..i have been really sick and ended up at the er on saturday and they had to do some testing..first time that has happened since i have started this taper..didnt know that feeling like you have a big lump in your throat was a s/x and having a headache and feeling weak at the same time went together for some.

 

so if you could please tell me what my cuts would be with the 1mg tabs or would i just take the dose i was at on the .5mgs and double the number and then just go back to the c/c/h that i was doing?

 

thanks so much for all the help you not only give me but to everyone here 

 

deep

 

Sorry to hear that Deep.  As sick as the drugs made me I never had to go to the ER.  A 1mg pill weighing about the same as a .5mg pill would contain twice as much K so you would need to cut half as much.  So if you were doing four cuts in three days with .5mg pills going back to c/c/h with 1mg pills should be the same thing.

[[de...]]

SG

 

Just got back from my doc and he feels as though i changed to soon to the .5mg cause of the weight amounts being so close to my cuts and he put me back on the 1mg until i am lower down in the cuts..i have been really sick and ended up at the er on saturday and they had to do some testing..first time that has happened since i have started this taper..didnt know that feeling like you have a big lump in your throat was a s/x and having a headache and feeling weak at the same time went together for some.

 

so if you could please tell me what my cuts would be with the 1mg tabs or would i just take the dose i was at on the .5mgs and double the number and then just go back to the c/c/h that i was doing?

 

thanks so much for all the help you not only give me but to everyone here 

 

deep

 

Sorry to hear that Deep.  As sick as the drugs made me I never had to go to the ER.  A 1mg pill weighing about the same as a .5mg pill would contain twice as much K so you would need to cut half as much.  So if you were doing four cuts in three days with .5mg pills going back to c/c/h with 1mg pills should be the same thing.

 

 

so i just take my last cut amount of .167 and divide by 2 and that would be .083?? and then cut for 2 days and hold a day..c/c/h..alternating between the 4 doses would be the same as cutting .002/.001/.001 just have to be sure i cant mess this one up..i got to get back on track somehow..

 

and the reason i ended up at the er is because i thought i had a piece of ham stuck in my throat and it was making it hard for me to swallow..but was not effecting my air..so they did a swallow test with barium and told me nothing was there..so still having problems with feeling like a have a lump in my throat now..and losing more weight..

 

thanks

deep

[[mo...]]

Hi All,

 

I haven't been around much as I was experiencing constant migralepsy episodes, then I got shingles right after I got after my flu shot so I had to hold for quite awhile. While I was holding the migralepsy episodes went away completely and so, finally, did the shingles!

 

Then I cut .25 mgs by .03 mgs per day for 8 days, and .01 mg one day, and BOOM, I'm now in constant tachycardia...I just don't get it. I'm on a liquid titration made from 1 ml of 151 proof alcohol, 99 mls of water and 1 mg (half a 2 mg tablet) of Diazepam. How can such a little cut hit me so fast and so hard?! I actually have a graph from my FitBit Heart Rate tracker AND my Alive Core EKG tracker showing the steady rise in my resting heart rate from 63 beats per minute up to 91 BPM over a 6 day period starting almost as soon as I reached that .25 mg cut mark.

 

Am I nuts or can such a small cut (I went from 4.75 to 4.5) REALLY make that much difference? My docs are having me hold AGAIN now until my heart rate slows down...at this rate am I ever going to get off this stuff?

 

My concern is also that, having been on V for so long now since crossing over from Lorazepam 12 months ago, this might be benzo toxicity (since it can build up in your body)...or is it just plain old w/d?

 

Thanks for any advice or feedback!

 

Mo

 

.25mg over six days extrapolates to over 20% a month at a dose of 4.75mg.  It really is not that slow.  In fact it is kind of fast at your dose.

 

Another thing to consider is if anything is different that could have affected your taper, like other meds or new foods.  These things can affect benzo blood levels and bring on symptoms.

 

Thanks very much for that reminder SG!

 

With MT I keep getting fixated on the amount of the daily cuts and forget about total dosage percentages. Even though I have "proof", I still find it hard to believe a cut of only 1/4 of a mg can affect me that much. I'm still in denial... Although I have gone to MTing now, I think I still haven't completely gotten Ashton C & H out of my mind where the cuts are so much higher each month.

 

Once I get over this hold and back to baseline resting HR I will try cutting the daily MT down to .02 mgs per day and try to focus on cutting 10% of my total dose every 2 weeks? I'm going to have to get out my calculator and find my math brain...that will be good "exercise" for me!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mo

[[...]]

Sorry to hear that Deep.  As sick as the drugs made me I never had to go to the ER.  A 1mg pill weighing about the same as a .5mg pill would contain twice as much K so you would need to cut half as much.  So if you were doing four cuts in three days with .5mg pills going back to c/c/h with 1mg pills should be the same thing.

 

 

so i just take my last cut amount of .167 and divide by 2 and that would be .083?? and then cut for 2 days and hold a day..c/c/h..alternating between the 4 doses would be the same as cutting .002/.001/.001 just have to be sure i cant mess this one up..i got to get back on track somehow..

 

and the reason i ended up at the er is because i thought i had a piece of ham stuck in my throat and it was making it hard for me to swallow..but was not effecting my air..so they did a swallow test with barium and told me nothing was there..so still having problems with feeling like a have a lump in my throat now..and losing more weight..

 

thanks

deep

 

Yes, you've got it.  You're replacing four .5mg pills weighing .167g with four 1mg pills weighing .084g.  That will leave your dose unchanged.  When you go to cut, each .001g will now contain twice as much K so you need to cut half as much.  You were making four cuts every three days so now you make two every three days, which is c/c/h.  It sounds like you are still having symptoms so it might be good to keep holding.

[[...]]

.25mg over six days extrapolates to over 20% a month at a dose of 4.75mg.  It really is not that slow.  In fact it is kind of fast at your dose.

 

Another thing to consider is if anything is different that could have affected your taper, like other meds or new foods.  These things can affect benzo blood levels and bring on symptoms.

 

Thanks very much for that reminder SG!

 

With MT I keep getting fixated on the amount of the daily cuts and forget about total dosage percentages. Even though I have "proof", I still find it hard to believe a cut of only 1/4 of a mg can affect me that much. I'm still in denial... Although I have gone to MTing now, I think I still haven't completely gotten Ashton C & H out of my mind where the cuts are so much higher each month.

 

Once I get over this hold and back to baseline resting HR I will try cutting the daily MT down to .02 mgs per day and try to focus on cutting 10% of my total dose every 2 weeks? I'm going to have to get out my calculator and find my math brain...that will be good "exercise" for me!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mo

 

Yeah, you really need to watch and be aware of both the cut size and the percent cut.  If you were to see a curve of how the receptor occupancy changes based on dose size you would get a really good idea of why cut size needs to get smaller and smaller.  It's the kind of thing where - once you see it - you say, "of coarse cut size should be smaller!"

 

A .02mg cut will put you at 13% for the first month if you begin at 4.5mg.

[[mo...]]

.25mg over six days extrapolates to over 20% a month at a dose of 4.75mg.  It really is not that slow.  In fact it is kind of fast at your dose.

 

Another thing to consider is if anything is different that could have affected your taper, like other meds or new foods.  These things can affect benzo blood levels and bring on symptoms.

 

Thanks very much for that reminder SG!

 

With MT I keep getting fixated on the amount of the daily cuts and forget about total dosage percentages. Even though I have "proof", I still find it hard to believe a cut of only 1/4 of a mg can affect me that much. I'm still in denial... Although I have gone to MTing now, I think I still haven't completely gotten Ashton C & H out of my mind where the cuts are so much higher each month.

 

Once I get over this hold and back to baseline resting HR I will try cutting the daily MT down to .02 mgs per day and try to focus on cutting 10% of my total dose every 2 weeks? I'm going to have to get out my calculator and find my math brain...that will be good "exercise" for me!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mo

 

Yeah, you really need to watch and be aware of both the cut size and the percent cut.  If you were to see a curve of how the receptor occupancy changes based on dose size you would get a really good idea of why cut size needs to get smaller and smaller.  It's the kind of thing where - once you see it - you say, "of coarse cut size should be smaller!"

 

A .02mg cut will put you at 13% for the first month if you begin at 4.5mg.

 

Wow, thanks again SG; that certainly makes me stop and think...

 

I was going to try and cut .5 mgs by the end of the year so I could start out the New Year at an even 4 mgs. Guess that's not the best way to calculate my cuts as that would basically be a 20% cut in 2weeks. Since the migralepsy episodes ceased after my last hold and I want to avoid them again if possible, I will definitely slow down!

 

One thing I am curious about is why all that V, with its long half-life, that I've got stored in my body after taking it for a year now since xing from Ativan isn't kicking in to "even out" the cuts and make the sxs less, especially as the cuts are so low and slow. Granted it did take a few days before the tachycardia started, but why isn't all that V in my body covering the cuts?

 

As a visual learner, I find it fascinating to think about the idea of a graph showing GABA receptor occupancy and response to dose size and will try to keep this in mind as I figure out my taper rates.

 

I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and help us all out!

 

 

[[...]]

Yeah, you really need to watch and be aware of both the cut size and the percent cut.  If you were to see a curve of how the receptor occupancy changes based on dose size you would get a really good idea of why cut size needs to get smaller and smaller.  It's the kind of thing where - once you see it - you say, "of coarse cut size should be smaller!"

 

A .02mg cut will put you at 13% for the first month if you begin at 4.5mg.

 

Wow, thanks again SG; that certainly makes me stop and think...

 

I was going to try and cut .5 mgs by the end of the year so I could start out the New Year at an even 4 mgs. Guess that's not the best way to calculate my cuts as that would basically be a 20% cut in 2weeks. Since the migralepsy episodes ceased after my last hold and I want to avoid them again if possible, I will definitely slow down!

 

One thing I am curious about is why all that V, with its long half-life, that I've got stored in my body after taking it for a year now since xing from Ativan isn't kicking in to "even out" the cuts and make the sxs less, especially as the cuts are so low and slow. Granted it did take a few days before the tachycardia started, but why isn't all that V in my body covering the cuts?

 

As a visual learner, I find it fascinating to think about the idea of a graph showing GABA receptor occupancy and response to dose size and will try to keep this in mind as I figure out my taper rates.

 

I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and help us all out!

 

Take a look at the graphs on pages 829-831 of this article...

 

http://ils.unc.edu/b...iew/tmp/352.pdf

 

They are for ADs, not benzos, but all psych drugs look like this - they all have this shape.  It shows how the percentage of receptors occupied by the drug changes with dose.  It is very steep at low dose and much flatter at high dose.  This means when we cut at high dose not as many receptors are exposed by the cut (so we can cut bigger), but as the dose gets lower more and more receptors get exposed, so to counter this effect we need to slow down.  Slowing down the taper is the natural result of these curves.

 

As for V storage, IDK much about if benzos get stored in the body.  I've heard they get stored in body fat, but I don't think this would play a big part in the taper.  As the dose comes down I would think any V stored in fat would come back out as the blood concentration dropped.

[[Fi...]]

Hi, I would like to request some help with math, and suggestions on my cut rate.

 

There has been talk on this forum lately of being aware of both your cut size, and the percent cut.  Based on my signature, could someone calculate my % cut over the last 2 weeks, and the 2 weeks before that?

I'm not quite sure how to calculate this, but if I see your numbers than hopefully I can see what you've done and figure out how to calculate %'s in the future - maybe....

 

I ran into difficulties with my taper rate late October, and followed Sharkey's suggestion of cutting every other day c/h.  I had been cutting .005 mg per day, so changed this to .005 mg every 2 days (= to 0025 mg per day).  I was only able to cut every other day for 4 days, and then I started feeling the cuts too much, so I held for 3-4 days at a time, and I felt MUCH better.  So much better I guess, that I thought I would give it a go and try cutting every other day again - this has not been going so well, so I will go back to holding at the same dosage for 3 days - c/h/h.  I also added a few more supplements into the mix, so I'm thinking this might be adding to the symptoms - hard to know.

Now that I know I can't cut every day, or every other day, I will do a c/h/h - based on this pattern what is my daily cut rate?  Any opinions on doing smaller cuts every day rather than a cut and holds?  I am dosing part of my K with compounding liquid, which is much easier to measure out in .05ml increments in the syringe, so that might be my hesitation in trying to do daily cuts with smaller amounts.  Any suggestions in dosing more than once a day?  I am currently dosing once a day, before bed, as it was prescribed for sleep.  Although my sleep is pretty horendous right now.

 

As I have learned here, my goal is to be as symptom free as possible while tapering - I have had to throw away the calendar!

 

Thank you!

 

[[Kg...]]

Finnie I can't do the math for you so hopefully someone else can but if c/h/h works for you why worry about the rate - it is what works for you so just do it this way. 

[[...]]

Hi, I would like to request some help with math, and suggestions on my cut rate.

 

There has been talk on this forum lately of being aware of both your cut size, and the percent cut.  Based on my signature, could someone calculate my % cut over the last 2 weeks, and the 2 weeks before that?

I'm not quite sure how to calculate this, but if I see your numbers than hopefully I can see what you've done and figure out how to calculate %'s in the future - maybe....

 

I ran into difficulties with my taper rate late October, and followed Sharkey's suggestion of cutting every other day c/h.  I had been cutting .005 mg per day, so changed this to .005 mg every 2 days (= to 0025 mg per day).  I was only able to cut every other day for 4 days, and then I started feeling the cuts too much, so I held for 3-4 days at a time, and I felt MUCH better.  So much better I guess, that I thought I would give it a go and try cutting every other day again - this has not been going so well, so I will go back to holding at the same dosage for 3 days - c/h/h.  I also added a few more supplements into the mix, so I'm thinking this might be adding to the symptoms - hard to know.

Now that I know I can't cut every day, or every other day, I will do a c/h/h - based on this pattern what is my daily cut rate?  Any opinions on doing smaller cuts every day rather than a cut and holds?  I am dosing part of my K with compounding liquid, which is much easier to measure out in .05ml increments in the syringe, so that might be my hesitation in trying to do daily cuts with smaller amounts.  Any suggestions in dosing more than once a day?  I am currently dosing once a day, before bed, as it was prescribed for sleep.  Although my sleep is pretty horendous right now.

 

As I have learned here, my goal is to be as symptom free as possible while tapering - I have had to throw away the calendar!

 

Thank you!

 

Nov 15 - .935 mg

Nov 22 - .920 mg

Nov 29 - .910 mg

Dec 6 - .895 mg

Dec 13 - .875 mg

 

From 11/15 to 11/29 you cut 2.7% and from 11/29 to 12/13 you cut 3.8%.  You can do c/h/h, but I think you can cut every day as you have a liquid.  So you just need to make your daily cut smaller to make the rate the same.  For example, if you cut .0025mg every three days you could instead cut .008mg every day.  You have a liquid so you might as well take advantage of it.

 

With dosing, it depends on you, but K usually requires two or three doses.  If you need more doses just that alone could help you feel better.

[[...]]

.25mg over six days extrapolates to over 20% a month at a dose of 4.75mg.  It really is not that slow.  In fact it is kind of fast at your dose.

 

Another thing to consider is if anything is different that could have affected your taper, like other meds or new foods.  These things can affect benzo blood levels and bring on symptoms.

 

Thanks very much for that reminder SG!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With MT I keep getting fixated on the amount of the daily cuts and forget about total dosage percentages. Even though I have "proof", I still find it hard to believe a cut of only 1/4 of a mg can affect me that much. I'm still in denial... Although I have gone to MTing now, I think I still haven't completely gotten Ashton C & H out of my mind where the cuts are so much higher each month.

 

Once I get over this hold and back to baseline resting HR I will try cutting the daily MT down to .02 mgs per day and try to focus on cutting 10% of my total dose every 2 weeks? I'm going to have to get out my calculator and find my math brain...that will be good "exercise" for me!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mo

 

Yeah, you really need to watch and be aware of both the cut size and the percent cut.  If you were to see a curve of how the receptor occupancy changes based on dose size you would get a really good idea of why cut size needs to get smaller and smaller.  It's the kind of thing where - once you see it - you say, "of coarse cut size should be smaller!"

 

A .02mg cut will put you at 13% for the first month if you begin at 4.5mg.

 

SG, Where might I find a chart showing the curve and how receptor occupancy changes. It would give me a better understanding. Do you have a link that you could post? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Rose B