Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

I'm looking for some help here.  I've been tapering off K, dry cutting MT.  I seem to be always getting hit with sx's.  It's been suggested to me that I start LT.  I am pursuing this now.  I am almost down to .15mg.  From what I read in other people, they seem to move at a faster pace and get off this stuff when doing an LT.

 

Last week my pill weighed in at .068g and I cut to .066g.  I did another small cut today down to .064g.  The shakiness I felt today, you'd think I did a 10% cut. 

 

What would I need to do to setup an LT?  I've watched videos, so I know I have to get some equipment.

 

You don't need much equipment.  Bare bones is a 1ml and a 10ml syringe and a few good-sealing jars.  You might be able to get all this stuff for free.

 

There are several liquids you could use for K.  Whole milk and alcohol/water are common, but there are other choices too.  A prescription liquid for K is not available in the USA I don't believe, but you can have it compounded.

[[Ma...]]

SG,

I did my first cut yesterday morning. I cut 2mgs off my first dose. A 3.6% cut, as planned. I have not felt the cut. I do not think I will. My last couple cuts of K were3% and I didn't feel them. I did do a 3.5% cut of K, awhile ago, and a I felt it a little. I know that I won't feel V as quick as K, but I am still a rapid metabolizer of V. The difference is V has a longer half life. K cuts I feel within hours and fully feel within 12 hours, always. It was been 30 hrs since my V cut. I won't completely rule it out until 48 hrs, I guess? I have been dosing V 3x a day, so that is half as much as K. I am trying to dose every 8 hours, but that never works out between my last and first dose. It is over 8. When it is over 8, which it almost always is, I do wake up with some interdose wd. I was hoping for your opinion on this. I hope I am not feeling the cut. If that is definitely the case, I will probably make a 5% cut. I don't usually want to feel cuts, but as we discussed before knowing how long it takes to feel a cut, adjust etc. is important info. Thanks for all your help! It is hard becasue I am so different in the way I metabolize meds, so everyone else's experiences, on feeling cuts, doesn't apply.

 

XO Maya

[[ca...]]

SG,

I did my first cut yesterday morning. I cut 2mgs off my first dose. A 3.6% cut, as planned. I have not felt the cut. I do not think I will. My last couple cuts of K were3% and I didn't feel them. I did do a 3.5% cut of K, awhile ago, and a I felt it a little. I know that I won't feel V as quick as K, but I am still a rapid metabolizer of V. The difference is V has a longer half life. K cuts I feel within hours and fully feel within 12 hours, always. It was been 30 hrs since my V cut. I won't completely rule it out until 48 hrs, I guess? I have been dosing V 3x a day, so that is half as much as K. I am trying to dose every 8 hours, but that never works out between my last and first dose. It is over 8. When it is over 8, which it almost always is, I do wake up with some interdose wd. I was hoping for your opinion on this. I hope I am not feeling the cut. If that is definitely the case, I will probably make a 5% cut. I don't usually want to feel cuts, but as we discussed before knowing how long it takes to feel a cut, adjust etc. is important info. Thanks for all your help! It is hard becasue I am so different in the way I metabolize meds, so everyone else's experiences, on feeling cuts, doesn't apply.

 

XO Maya

Maya, some say it can take 2 weeks to feel a v cut but my P/Doc said 2 days just thought i would offer the little i have been told ~CD

[[...]]

SG,

I did my first cut yesterday morning. I cut 2mgs off my first dose. A 3.6% cut, as planned. I have not felt the cut. I do not think I will. My last couple cuts of K were3% and I didn't feel them. I did do a 3.5% cut of K, awhile ago, and a I felt it a little. I know that I won't feel V as quick as K, but I am still a rapid metabolizer of V. The difference is V has a longer half life. K cuts I feel within hours and fully feel within 12 hours, always. It was been 30 hrs since my V cut. I won't completely rule it out until 48 hrs, I guess? I have been dosing V 3x a day, so that is half as much as K. I am trying to dose every 8 hours, but that never works out between my last and first dose. It is over 8. When it is over 8, which it almost always is, I do wake up with some interdose wd. I was hoping for your opinion on this. I hope I am not feeling the cut. If that is definitely the case, I will probably make a 5% cut. I don't usually want to feel cuts, but as we discussed before knowing how long it takes to feel a cut, adjust etc. is important info. Thanks for all your help! It is hard becasue I am so different in the way I metabolize meds, so everyone else's experiences, on feeling cuts, doesn't apply.

 

XO Maya

 

I'd give it more time to see how a V cut plays out.  If you could process a 2mg/3.6% cut in 30 hours that would be 1.6mg/2.88% a day.  Even 48 hours is 1mg/1.8% a day.  I think a person needs to be lightly dependent to process that size cut within two days and I don't think that is you.  I'd bring the daily % value below 1% at least.  Most people can only keep up with cuts that are a fraction of 1% daily unless they have a light dependency.  It puzzles me why you don't feel a 3.6% cut or even a 3% cut.  Certainly if you cut that much every day you would eventually feel it as your taper would be over in a few months.

[[ca...]]

SG,

I did my first cut yesterday morning. I cut 2mgs off my first dose. A 3.6% cut, as planned. I have not felt the cut. I do not think I will. My last couple cuts of K were3% and I didn't feel them. I did do a 3.5% cut of K, awhile ago, and a I felt it a little. I know that I won't feel V as quick as K, but I am still a rapid metabolizer of V. The difference is V has a longer half life. K cuts I feel within hours and fully feel within 12 hours, always. It was been 30 hrs since my V cut. I won't completely rule it out until 48 hrs, I guess? I have been dosing V 3x a day, so that is half as much as K. I am trying to dose every 8 hours, but that never works out between my last and first dose. It is over 8. When it is over 8, which it almost always is, I do wake up with some interdose wd. I was hoping for your opinion on this. I hope I am not feeling the cut. If that is definitely the case, I will probably make a 5% cut. I don't usually want to feel cuts, but as we discussed before knowing how long it takes to feel a cut, adjust etc. is important info. Thanks for all your help! It is hard becasue I am so different in the way I metabolize meds, so everyone else's experiences, on feeling cuts, doesn't apply.

 

XO Maya

 

I'd give it more time to see how a V cut plays out.  If you could process a 2mg/3.6% cut in 30 hours that would be 1.6mg/2.88% a day.  Even 48 hours is 1mg/1.8% a day.  I think a person needs to be lightly dependent to process that size cut within two days and I don't think that is you.  I'd bring the daily % value below 1% at least.  Most people can only keep up with cuts that are a fraction of 1% daily unless they have a light dependency.  It puzzles me why you don't feel a 3.6% cut or even a 3% cut.  Certainly if you cut that much every day you would eventually feel it as your taper would be over in a few months.

SG, Your such a help to alot of people and that`s a blessing to them i never did a full c/o but now on .125 k plus 45 mgs v i plan on taking about 12- 18 months to taper off the v whats your idea on this as i see to fast of tapers just turn into protracted withdrawls !Thanks ~CD

[[Ma...]]

CD,

Thank you, that was very helpful! I am also a rapid metabolizer, as you know. Two weeks is definitely not my case. Two days makes more sense to me.

 

SG,

You would hold longer becasue you think I haven't felt the cut yet? You confuse me. Before when I was doing the 3% cuts on K every 3 days, you said that was great. Now that is not possible? I, obviously, am not lightly dependent. I have been on K (well now V) my entire adult life, 13+ years. I am 31. I had terrible tolerance wd. People have different genetics and physiology. I rapidly metabolize meds and am not sensitive to them, usually for ex. I am not going to drop to under .55mg a day when I can cut more. There are a lot of people who cut much faster than me. They don't come to BB. There is not a lot of research, but studies show it's between 30-50% of long term users (one year plus) who suffer from bad wd sxs if they taper rapidly. There are people who CT and are fine. I tapered from 8-6mgs in two weeks with no sxs. I went from 6-4mgs by cutting .5mgs every week with almost no sxs. It never caught up with me. I am sorry your taper was hard. I get that me not feeling this cut may not be the norm on BB. It puzzles me that it puzzles me. I think everyone should go at a rate that works for them. TBH I feel very discouraged by you right now. I am not really sure what to do. In the past you have been much more encouraging. I am very grateful for all your help, but I think you need to take in to consideration that everyone is different. My body obviously works very differently.

[[...]]

SG, Your such a help to alot of people and that`s a blessing to them i never did a full c/o but now on .125 k plus 45 mgs v i plan on taking about 12- 18 months to taper off the v whats your idea on this as i see to fast of tapers just turn into protracted withdrawls !Thanks ~CD

 

Hi CD, It all depends on you and your own level of dependence and also how fast you heal.  But generally I'd say tapering 47.5mg V in 12-18 months is pushing it by quite a bit.  I'd expect beyond two years.  But again some people can go faster and you may be one.  Your history to date would tell a lot about your future I think.

 

You need to find your pace where symptoms don't increase.  I agree about the fast tapers.  It is a mirage to think we are saving time by pushing through and toughing it out.  The time just gets added to the other side and IMO extra bonus time also gets added for trying to cheat the benzo gods.  I should know - I'm in bonus time, ha.

[[ca...]]

SG, Your such a help to alot of people and that`s a blessing to them i never did a full c/o but now on .125 k plus 45 mgs v i plan on taking about 12- 18 months to taper off the v whats your idea on this as i see to fast of tapers just turn into protracted withdrawls !Thanks ~CD

 

Hi CD, It all depends on you and your own level of dependence and also how fast you heal.  But generally I'd say tapering 47.5mg V in 12-18 months is pushing it by quite a bit.  I'd expect beyond two years.  But again some people can go faster and you may be one.  Your history to date would tell a lot about your future I think.

 

You need to find your pace where symptoms don't increase.  I agree about the fast tapers.  It is a mirage to think we are saving time by pushing through and toughing it out.  The time just gets added to the other side and IMO extra bonus time also gets added for trying to cheat the benzo gods.  I should know - I'm in bonus time, ha.

SG, Thanks you right as right now i am cutting the last of my klonopin by MT and cuts have been averaging 12-14 % a week and feeling it and even if i was to half that due to the valium i am on its still over 5% a week i may have to slow down as its getting rough! Again thank you ~ CD  Maya please read the last couple of posts my friend!

 

[[...]]

Hi CD, It all depends on you and your own level of dependence and also how fast you heal.  But generally I'd say tapering 47.5mg V in 12-18 months is pushing it by quite a bit.  I'd expect beyond two years.  But again some people can go faster and you may be one.  Your history to date would tell a lot about your future I think.

 

You need to find your pace where symptoms don't increase.  I agree about the fast tapers.  It is a mirage to think we are saving time by pushing through and toughing it out.  The time just gets added to the other side and IMO extra bonus time also gets added for trying to cheat the benzo gods.  I should know - I'm in bonus time, ha.

SG, Thanks you right as right now i am cutting the last of my klonopin by MT and cuts have been averaging 12-14 % a week and feeling it and even if i was to half that due to the valium i am on its still over 5% a week i may have to slow down as its getting rough! Again thank you ~ CD  Maya please read the last couple of posts my friend!

 

Yeah, 12-14% a week is north of 48-56% a month.  Even 5% a week is over 20% a month.  I'm surprised you can function...or are those percentages of just the K?

[[ca...]]

Hi CD, It all depends on you and your own level of dependence and also how fast you heal.  But generally I'd say tapering 47.5mg V in 12-18 months is pushing it by quite a bit.  I'd expect beyond two years.  But again some people can go faster and you may be one.  Your history to date would tell a lot about your future I think.

 

You need to find your pace where symptoms don't increase.  I agree about the fast tapers.  It is a mirage to think we are saving time by pushing through and toughing it out.  The time just gets added to the other side and IMO extra bonus time also gets added for trying to cheat the benzo gods.  I should know - I'm in bonus time, ha.

SG, Thanks you right as right now i am cutting the last of my klonopin by MT and cuts have been averaging 12-14 % a week and feeling it and even if i was to half that due to the valium i am on its still over 5% a week i may have to slow down as its getting rough! Again thank you ~ CD  Maya please read the last couple of posts my friend!

 

Yeah, 12-14% a week is north of 48-56% a month.  Even 5% a week is over 20% a month.  I'm surprised you can function...or are those percentages of just the K?

SG, Just the k but getting to me pretty good i may need to slow it down some ! And the pecentage of cuts are my k but like i said if i add the v in still cutting over 5% weekly so total benzo use ! I would rather go slow and kinda avoid bonus time like you said! Again Thanks Much ~CD

[[Ma...]]

CD,

According to SG you should be adding in V as your total percent of benzo. That would make your cuts less than 5% a week. You should go at whatever pace works for you. Why do I need to read these posts? We are all different in what works for us. If I am not feeling cuts, then why would I need to slow down? I also metabolize very differently than you. I do not cut unless I am stable. If you are not stable and need to slow down, then you should. I think everyone knows their own body best. I was once on 8mgs of K. I am not new to tapering. I appreciate your concern. Also you do not express these concerns to WR,JK,Steve or others on KK cutting more.

 

SG,

You are not making any sense to me. You say that I can't cut that fast, but said the same amounts were great when doing a small cut and hold pattern with K. Also the same with my cross. You also suggested I start with 21% a month with V. With all due respect, you are puzzling to me. I was hoping for some insight about my cut from you. I have felt you were the only one who understood how I metabolize and need to cut. You have helped me greatly in the past. It upsets me how you are being. Also I guess you will just ignore me now...

[[...]]

SG,

You would hold longer becasue you think I haven't felt the cut yet? You confuse me. Before when I was doing the 3% cuts on K every 3 days, you said that was great. Now that is not possible? I, obviously, am not lightly dependent. I have been on K (well now V) my entire adult life, 13+ years. I am 31. I had terrible tolerance wd. People have different genetics and physiology. I rapidly metabolize meds and am not sensitive to them, usually for ex. I am not going to drop to under .55mg a day when I can cut more. There are a lot of people who cut much faster than me. They don't come to BB. There is not a lot of research, but studies show it's between 30-50% of long term users (one year plus) who suffer from bad wd sxs if they taper rapidly. There are people who CT and are fine. I tapered from 8-6mgs in two weeks with no sxs. I went from 6-4mgs by cutting .5mgs every week with almost no sxs. It never caught up with me. I am sorry your taper was hard. I get that me not feeling this cut may not be the norm on BB. It puzzles me that it puzzles me. I think everyone should go at a rate that works for them. TBH I feel very discouraged by you right now. I am not really sure what to do. In the past you have been much more encouraging. I am very grateful for all your help, but I think you need to take in to consideration that everyone is different. My body obviously works very differently.

 

SG,

You are not making any sense to me. You say that I can't cut that fast, but said the same amounts were great when doing a small cut and hold pattern with K. Also the same with my cross. With all due respect, you are puzzling to me. I was hoping for some insight about my cut from you. I have felt you were the only one who understood how I metabolize and need to cut. You have helped me greatly in the past. It upsets me how you are being. Also I guess you will just ignore me now

 

You can cut what you can cut, the ceiling is set by whatever your body can do.  What I was trying to say was cutting as a rate above ~1% a day is not usually something that can be sustained so I was suggesting to give the V cut some time to see how it plays out.  A 3.6% cut would need at least four days to do this.

[[Mo...]]

Hi Maya,

You're talking about Valium, right ?

( just making sure ).

 

If so, I agree to wait and see a bit on how it goes in a few days. I never felt my cut till day 5 ,  at least.

Most people don't feel a Valium cut within two days at all. It has such long acting properties and is an different animal that to other benzos. ( as they all are, I guess  )

 

Just wanting to let you know what the majority of people on Valium experience: cutting is felt generally later than two days. I hope you don't mind me saying that. It's just that we've seen it so many times where people feel nothing till day 5-8 or so.

And if you don't, you don't. That happens too, of course.

 

I would just take it by day and hold at least a few more days to see if this keeps up and it very well might. I think it's difficult to try to advice anyone , especially since we are all so different.

But we also don't want to see people keep cutting thinking they are okay after two days of not feeling it, and getting in the woods , as is seen too often.

 

A few more days of waiting it out won't hurt. And when you do still feel the same , that's awesome and you'll know for next time when to cut again...it's a bit of trial and error again, I guess. But I'd rather walk on  the safe side and not push it if there's no need. It's just a few days.

 

Hoping your evening Is calm 

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

SG,

You would hold longer becasue you think I haven't felt the cut yet? You confuse me. Before when I was doing the 3% cuts on K every 3 days, you said that was great. Now that is not possible? I, obviously, am not lightly dependent. I have been on K (well now V) my entire adult life, 13+ years. I am 31. I had terrible tolerance wd. People have different genetics and physiology. I rapidly metabolize meds and am not sensitive to them, usually for ex. I am not going to drop to under .55mg a day when I can cut more. There are a lot of people who cut much faster than me. They don't come to BB. There is not a lot of research, but studies show it's between 30-50% of long term users (one year plus) who suffer from bad wd sxs if they taper rapidly. There are people who CT and are fine. I tapered from 8-6mgs in two weeks with no sxs. I went from 6-4mgs by cutting .5mgs every week with almost no sxs. It never caught up with me. I am sorry your taper was hard. I get that me not feeling this cut may not be the norm on BB. It puzzles me that it puzzles me. I think everyone should go at a rate that works for them. TBH I feel very discouraged by you right now. I am not really sure what to do. In the past you have been much more encouraging. I am very grateful for all your help, but I think you need to take in to consideration that everyone is different. My body obviously works very differently.

 

SG,

You are not making any sense to me. You say that I can't cut that fast, but said the same amounts were great when doing a small cut and hold pattern with K. Also the same with my cross. With all due respect, you are puzzling to me. I was hoping for some insight about my cut from you. I have felt you were the only one who understood how I metabolize and need to cut. You have helped me greatly in the past. It upsets me how you are being. Also I guess you will just ignore me now

 

You can cut what you can cut, the ceiling is set by whatever your body can do.  What I was trying to say was cutting as a rate above ~1% a day is not usually something that can be sustained so I was suggesting to give the V cut some time to see how it plays out.  A 3.6% cut would need at least four days to do this.

I was cutting at above 1% a day on K right before the crossover with no sxs and at other points in my taper. You think that even though I have never not fully felt a K cut within 12 hours and always felt it within hours, if I was going to feel the cut, it will take me at least four with V? I can feel when it leaves my body. I also am dosing half as much, but still 3x a day with a little interdose wd. How much and how often a person can cut is different for everyone. I know you suggested I start by cutting 21% a month, but I do a symtom based taper. You always say the goal is not to feel cuts like I wasn't with K and how I wasn't feeling my cross. I plan to wait at least another day to be cautious, but I don't think 4 days are needed. I am confused as to why you think it is. Also I feel you are being very different than our last discussions. Things are not as black and white as you make them seem. Also it can be damaging to stay on a drug that is harming you longer than you need to. There is such a things as going too slow.

[[Ma...]]

Hi Maya,

You're talking about Valium, right ?

( just making sure ).

 

If so, I agree to wait and see a bit on how it goes in a few days. I never felt my cut till day 5 ,  at least.

Most people don't feel a Valium cut within two days at all. It has such long acting properties and is an different animal that to other benzos. ( as they all are, I guess  )

 

Just wanting to let you know what the majority of people on Valium experience: cutting is felt generally later than two days. I hope you don't mind me saying that. It's just that we've seen it so many times where people feel nothing till day 5-8 or so.

And if you don't, you don't. That happens too, of course.

 

I would just take it by day and hold at least a few more days to see if this keeps up and it very well might. I think it's difficult to try to advice anyone , especially since we are all so different.

But we also don't want to see people keep cutting thinking they are okay after two days of not feeling it, and getting in the woods , as is seen too often.

 

A few more days of waiting it out won't hurt. And when you do still feel the same , that's awesome and you'll know for next time when to cut again...it's a bit of trial and error again, I guess. But I'd rather walk on  the safe side and not push it if there's no need. It's just a few days.

 

Hoping your evening Is calm 

Moo,

We are talking about Valium. I did not post on the V thread for this exact reason. How the average person metabolizes V does not at all apply to me. I know this from being in Benzos my entire adult life, 13+ years, and from genetic testing. I metabolize most meds and all Benzos very rapidly. I rapidly metabolize all liver enzymes involved in metabolizing V. Most people don't start to feel a K cut until 2 days, at the earliest. I feel it within hours and fully within 12 hours. I am dosing V 3x a day and still get a little interdose wd. I switched to V becasue I needed a longer half life.

 

I never planned on not cutting today or tomorrow. I really do appreciate your advice. I hope this does not come off the wrong way. SG understands my history with metabolizing and tapering better than most. That is why I asked him. I don't ask many becasue I am so different with metabolizing. I know it won't take me the same amount of time as most people tapering V. I do appreciate the knowledge of how it is for most. I also appreciate you trying to help me. I agree about not trying to push things too far. I also don't want to go slower than needed. My bigger issue was it being said that I slow down even if I don't feel cuts. Also that different things work for different people. Thank you! I hope to see you on the V thread soon. I need to figure out my tapering rhythm on V first. It's hard when no one can relate to how you metabolize meds. I hope you are feeling good and have a good night!

 

XO Maya

 

[[Lo...]]

Congrats on your decision to switch to valium. It is very good and wise one. 

 

I just had a horrible experience seeing a doctor who wanted to put me on klonopin. He said something about valium lasting only 4 hours and klonopin having longer life. Kind of shocked that a psychiatrist with supposedly so much experience knows so little about benzos. He dismissed Heather Ashton right off the gate....

 

[[...]]

You can cut what you can cut, the ceiling is set by whatever your body can do.  What I was trying to say was cutting as a rate above ~1% a day is not usually something that can be sustained so I was suggesting to give the V cut some time to see how it plays out.  A 3.6% cut would need at least four days to do this.

I was cutting at above 1% a day on K right before the crossover with no sxs and at other points in my taper. You think that even though I have never not fully felt a K cut within 12 hours and always felt it within hours, if I was going to feel the cut, it will take me at least four with V? I can feel when it leaves my body. I also am dosing half as much, but still 3x a day with a little interdose wd. How much and how often a person can cut is different for everyone. I know you suggested I start by cutting 21% a month, but I do a symtom based taper. You always say the goal is not to feel cuts like I wasn't with K and how I wasn't feeling my cross. I plan to wait at least another day to be cautious, but I don't think 4 days are needed. I am confused as to why you think it is. Also I feel you are being very different than our last discussions. Things are not as black and white as you make them seem. Also it can be damaging to stay on a drug that is harming you longer than you need to. There is such a things as going too slow.

 

It's a new drug.  I think it would be a good idea to get used to it and not assume you can predict how long a cut will take to hit.  I told you why I suggested four days.  Sustaining more than 1% a day is unusual so I suggested keeping this under 1% a day, which means four days.  I don't see how this is different than what I've said in the past, but what do I know.

[[Be...]]

Congrats on your decision to switch to valium. It is very good and wise one. 

 

I just had a horrible experience seeing a doctor who wanted to put me on klonopin. He said something about valium lasting only 4 hours and klonopin having longer life. Kind of shocked that a psychiatrist with supposedly so much experience knows so little about benzos. He dismissed Heather Ashton right off the gate....

 

Geez, are they not supplied with medical texts books??? The ineptitude blows my mind.

[[ga...]]

Hi Maya. Good to see you. I know you're in a confusing situation now that you've crossed and have a new med in your system. I sympathize. The L has been new experience for me and I haven't even started cutting it yet. I think it's good to be cautious with cuts when you're starting with a new drug. As someone who cut my X way too fast and suffered very badly for a long time, I would hate to see that happen to you.

 

I think I've read elsewhere on BB that the slower the benzo, the longer it will take for you to know whether the cut was too big or not. When I finally start cutting my L, I plan to start with small cuts, wait, try a little bigger, wait, and so on. Just a thought but you might try that method. As I said, I would hate to see you end up where I was. It would break my heart. :'(

 

That said, I am the Princess of Paranoia! Wait a minute, didn't I officially crown you a fellow Princess some time back? Better paranoid than stuck in an endless wave, right? So please stay in my paranoia club with me! Just a wee bit paranoid will do.

 

Gard

[[Ma...]]

Lorazepamfree,

Thank you so much! I know you have posted kind words to me when I went to the boards to try and find other rapid metabolizers. 95% of people metabolize normally, like 4% poorly, and 1 or less rapidly. So not surprising I didn't find others. I am a freak. Pdocs are, unfortunately, not very benzo wise. My pdoc said they had the same half life. I had to really convince him to let me do the C/O. He had never even switched someone from K to V. He is a very well known Dr. He won't look at the Ashton Manual and never heard of it. Also if they listen to the prescribing info for Benzos they would know that dependence starts after as soon as a month and that tolerance starts at 3-4 months. I hope you have a better dr now and things are going better!

 

SG,

I already explained why I think that. I don't think it will take 4 days to feel the cut. I don't think I will feel the cut. I am not yet saying that with 100% certainty. Also you should not say with 100% certainty how much I can handle to cut. I think you can be too rigid in your thinking about tapering. I am not trying to criticize. Just point out that everyone is very different. I am clearly a very different metabolizer of meds and recover quicker from cuts. I thought we were more on the same page. You said a 3.6% cut was a good idea. If I don't feel the cut I will cut 5% and see what happens. I would like to know how long it takes to feel a cut and adjust with V. I am being, in my opinion, very cautious based on my history. Then I will design a small cut and hold pattern based on that and adjust accordingly. I will do a symtom based taoer as always. I believe that you shouldn't go too fast or too slow. I feel better now than I did in tol wd on high doses of K. I know I am healing. I have never gone too fast and had it catch up with me. A couple times I made cuts that were bigger than I should have and immediately noticed and held longer than planned. Anyway, I do appreciate all your help with my cross, it was invaluable. Also you have helped me various times. The small cut and hold pattern was such a great help. I do value your opinion, but I will not always agree. I haven't in the past about MTing etc. That is okay to not agree, for me at least. I am not trying to say who knows best etc. Ultimately, I will always know what is best for my body and what I can handle. I am sorry if things got a bit heated. It was not my intention. I am an honest person, who speaks their mind. I felt upset and discouraged. I also hate being ignored. I overreacted. I thought I would get your reassurance that I was probably right and to just cut more if I still felt that way in a couple days. I was wrong to expect that or need that. It is hard becasue not many understand, at all, how I metabolize and recover etc. I now realize I understand and that's what matters the most.

 

Gard,

I am actually not feeling confused anymore. I have a plan that I will adjust accordingly. I started with a cautious cut, that was a cut SG thought made sense. I have not felt the cut and it's been 36 hrs. I don't think I will ever feel it. I did not feel 3% cuts when I made them with K. We will see. I also have gone from 8mgs of K to 53mgs of V which is equal to 2.65mgs of K or X. I am not new to tapering. The longer the half life, the longer it takes to feel the cut. I am very aware of that. I also am a very rapid metabolizer. I will not cut too fast and suffer I appreciate your concern. I am doing my version of your method. Our tapering experience is very different. I have always been able to cut at least 5% a week. I was paranoid before my c/o because I had been on K 13+ years. I am glad that I am not being very paranoid anymore. It is not healthy for me. I think I have the right amount of caution. You are so sweet for your concern. It's ine if the many reasons I think you are amazing is how caring you are. I will be fine, I promise. If I somehow make a cut that's too big I would hold longer or if I had to updose. I don't think that will happen. I find me being positive and trusting myself to be very helpful. Once I became that way during my C/O it was great. I hope all is well with you!

 

XO Maya

 

Respectfully, I don't wish for any feedback on how I am tapering, right now, unless you have a similar history to mine, which I have not found on this site yet. If I do I will ask for it. Thank you!

 

 

 

 

[[no...]]

SG,

I did my first cut yesterday morning. I cut 2mgs off my first dose. A 3.6% cut, as planned. I have not felt the cut. I do not think I will. My last couple cuts of K were3% and I didn't feel them. I did do a 3.5% cut of K, awhile ago, and a I felt it a little. I know that I won't feel V as quick as K, but I am still a rapid metabolizer of V. The difference is V has a longer half life. K cuts I feel within hours and fully feel within 12 hours, always. It was been 30 hrs since my V cut. I won't completely rule it out until 48 hrs, I guess? I have been dosing V 3x a day, so that is half as much as K. I am trying to dose every 8 hours, but that never works out between my last and first dose. It is over 8. When it is over 8, which it almost always is, I do wake up with some interdose wd. I was hoping for your opinion on this. I hope I am not feeling the cut. If that is definitely the case, I will probably make a 5% cut. I don't usually want to feel cuts, but as we discussed before knowing how long it takes to feel a cut, adjust etc. is important info. Thanks for all your help! It is hard becasue I am so different in the way I metabolize meds, so everyone else's experiences, on feeling cuts, doesn't apply.

 

XO Maya

Maya, some say it can take 2 weeks to feel a v cut but my P/Doc said 2 days just thought i would offer the little i have been told ~CD

 

 

It can actually take up to several weeks .....

 

Varying the dosage, even by quite small amounts, may produce unexpected effects. The time between a reduction in dosage and withdrawal symptoms can vary from a few hours (with short acting drugs) to several weeks (with long acting drugs).

    Withdrawal symptoms can vary. What you experience after one reduction in dose may be quite different next time.

    These drugs dissolve in body fats and are retained in the body for long periods (they have been detected five years after coming off).

 

http://www.bataid.org/advice.aspx

 

There is a lot of us getting caught out by Diazepam (Valium) time delay due to its longer half life, there have been many discussions about this. I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade, or as I say piss on their Bonfire, but we all need to be aware that the best and worse of us can get caught out irregardless of how bad or good we perceive we're doing. Withdrawal is its own master, we are the passengers while healing is the driver, we may know which road we're travelling but ultimately only healing  knows the route

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[ca...]]

OK ! very confused and frustrated on my benzo taper i did some number crunching and only cut my total benzo use 40% in 15 months this i got from droping my 20+ years use of 4 mgs klonopin down to .130 mgs k but i am now taking 45 mgs valium per day and MTing the last of the klonopin i can`t go faster then the rate i am doing as withdrawls get to much! Am i doing ok or going to slow i would apreciate all feed back as i so badly want off all of this !Thanks ~ CD

[[...]]

OK ! very confused and frustrated on my benzo taper i did some number crunching and only cut my total benzo use 40% in 15 months this i got from droping my 20+ years use of 4 mgs klonopin down to .130 mgs k but i am now taking 45 mgs valium per day and MTing the last of the klonopin i can`t go faster then the rate i am doing as withdrawls get to much! Am i doing ok or going to slow i would apreciate all feed back as i so badly want off all of this !Thanks ~ CD

 

Hi CD, I think you said it - you can't go faster than what your body allows.  Pushing beyond that will only make matters worse.

[[ga...]]

Maya, I've always been amazed and jealous about how fast you can cut! But also happy for you.    I'm very glad you are doing better on the V. I think we fast metabolizers need the slower benzos more than anybody.

I am still tapering the X part of my dose (I'm mostly on L but have some X left). When I am completely off of X I will be  . I'm also taking gabapentin now to treat my Restless Leg Syndrome. I didn't want to but I had to get some sleep. I think it's helping me with my taper, too. I have more confidence now that I will actually get through this. We will all get through this! All in our own way, but all together we will beat these benzos!

 

Hope you are having a good weekend and sleeping well, my friend.

 

Gard

[[an...]]

OK ! very confused and frustrated on my benzo taper i did some number crunching and only cut my total benzo use 40% in 15 months this i got from droping my 20+ years use of 4 mgs klonopin down to .130 mgs k but i am now taking 45 mgs valium per day and MTing the last of the klonopin i can`t go faster then the rate i am doing as withdrawls get to much! Am i doing ok or going to slow i would apreciate all feed back as i so badly want off all of this !Thanks ~ CD

 

CD,

 

I agree with SG.  You stated that symptoms are bad if you taper faster. In my experience, I need to let my body dictate the taper rate. When I go too fast, I feel it. You are doing very well to be down from 4 mg to 0.130 mg.  The last few mg take the longest time to taper. I am down to 0.24 mg/day of lorazepam, and it will most likely take me another 8 months to finish the taper. I don't care how long it takes.  My first priority is to have the smoothest taper possible. I work full time and must be functional at work.

There are others that can taper much faster. We are all different.  It sounds like you have found your ideal taper rate.

 

Anne