Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Be...]]

SG and Kgirl,

Thank you  ....yes, I know, SG, I am focused on an end date which, of course has been pushed further and further out due to holds I mentioned.  Hmm....start slow and ramp up if possible?  That's interesting as I had thought the other way around.

 

So, OK, SG..I will do as you say...and Kgirl...does what SG suggested parallel your method at all?  The C/C/H is, to me, easier to remember than cutting based on the day of the taper.  I'm bound to get that one screwed up!  But then I never thought I would be able to understand a MT, period and now it seems simple. 

 

As far as the house project, I think, like our tapers, everyone is different.  Our house is really fine...it's just that there are things I'd like to do at some point, but they are not necessary improvements - totally discretionary - so I think they can wait.  We wouldn't have to move out for long according to our contractor - it would certainly be a disruption.  Since we are home more b/c we are retired - even with my husband out playing golf and tennis - I think it would be a lot for me to handle when I could easily put it off for a year.  But thanks again for your response.  I think it helped as the fact of having people around all day long is, beside the money!, a huge drawback for me.

 

So, back to the taper.  Today is day 10 of my last cut.  I plan to do something tomorrow.  How about the SG plan of .001, .001, hold?  Right, SG? Am I good to go?

 

I think c/c/h is a good place to begin.  When beginning a new method I think there is a lot of value in having immediate success and c/c/h should ensure that.  Then you can move on after a few weeks of test driving.  If you want to jump in at .001g every day that is not unreasonable either, given your history.

 

Mana,

C/C/H is good plan. That's 10 cuts in 15 days, with a good rhythm.

Bennie

[[Cl...]]

Hi Mana! 

SG, KGirl and Bennie are giving You Good advices, cut, cut and hold...good! You asked me about my rate, it was first 0.0019 mg per Day, after a month I increased it to 0.0023, then after 3 weeks, 0.0025 and I ended doing 0.0028 mg/ Day.

I also agree with going slowly First till You find your rate and start to increase from that. Consistency is very important, finding your rate also matters much. My pills were smaller, so the equivalence to grams of pills was 0.00085 grams of pill = 0.0028 mg Rivotril per Day.

This is a very good and actually a quick route, but You can always hold as KGirl and Bennie did.

All the best my Friend!

I never did 0.002 grams cuts, I am too chicken  ...not even 0.001, but I had smaller pills, 0.15 grams or so...in other words, my daily cuts were almost equivalent to 0.001 grams of Klonopin pills (0.0029 mg K, I think).

 

Bennie and KGirl, You are doing awsome! 

[[Kg...]]

Clona goes to show you I should not ever do math.  I didn't realize your cuts were not in grams but in mg.  And here I thought how brave my wonderful Clona was going down .002 grams per day of the evil K.  You are still brave but you are off and at Paz - I want to join you there soon. 

[[my...]]

Hooray to all my girls -- and to SG our hero!!!  Yay...I will join you in the ranks of MT'ers tomorrow and end up at Paz....   Muchos gracias y thank you everyone!!

To paraphrase Bets, Evil K:  Begone!! 

Mana  :smitten:

[[my...]]

Hooray, SG!!  I skipped to the last page and had to go back to see your post after reading Bennie's. It was in there somewhere since she quoted you!!

We're ALL on the same page now..what a special community of people..humanity at its best -- (not to be overly dramatic  )

 

C/C/H it is...beginning tomorrow morning.  Thanks ever so much.

 

Wishing you an especially peaceful night. 

 

mana   

[[de...]]

SG..I think I have gotten myself in a mess with the .5mgs tab..as i am at .168 .167 .167 .167 a day..and the average weight was .172..but the pills i had been using either were the right weight or at like .170 there were some light ones in there..and i have been cutting .001 off everyday alternating doses but then i realized all i have left are heavy pills that some would need alot cut off and that scares me..i took the rest in the bottle and added them up and divided the number by how many i had weighed and the average now is .174.79 so basically .175..and with the ones that are like .178 and .180 i know thats going to be cutting off way to much to get to that low of a number for my dosage..but i have nothing else to use since this was my first script and i have no chips or anything else use but some dust..i have to use every pill i have till i get another script and with the laws the way they are they wont fill the script not one day early here in florida..

 

so what do i do..i feel as though since they have basically weighed what i have been needing everyday i have been taking 2mgs a day which to me would have been an updose and that i am not getting anywhere with the numbers going down..so what would you suggest i do now..i cant cut .001 off everyday with those weights but i dont even know what numbers i should be working with..

 

thanks for any help you can give me..i have enough pills at the lighter weight for today and tomorrow..

 

deep

[[...]]

SG..I think I have gotten myself in a mess with the .5mgs tab..as i am at .168 .167 .167 .167 a day..and the average weight was .172..but the pills i had been using either were the right weight or at like .170 there were some light ones in there..and i have been cutting .001 off everyday alternating doses but then i realized all i have left are heavy pills that some would need alot cut off and that scares me..i took the rest in the bottle and added them up and divided the number by how many i had weighed and the average now is .174.79 so basically .175..and with the ones that are like .178 and .180 i know thats going to be cutting off way to much to get to that low of a number for my dosage..but i have nothing else to use since this was my first script and i have no chips or anything else use but some dust..i have to use every pill i have till i get another script and with the laws the way they are they wont fill the script not one day early here in florida..

 

so what do i do..i feel as though since they have basically weighed what i have been needing everyday i have been taking 2mgs a day which to me would have been an updose and that i am not getting anywhere with the numbers going down..so what would you suggest i do now..i cant cut .001 off everyday with those weights but i dont even know what numbers i should be working with..

 

thanks for any help you can give me..i have enough pills at the lighter weight for today and tomorrow..

 

deep

 

It sounds like you are now on .5mg tabs with an average weight of .172g and have been cutting?  And your weights are now .168, .167g, .167g, and .167g?  How do you feel?

[[de...]]

SG

 

I am doing ok..but with taking the whole pills since they weighed what i needed i have actually not been cutting anything i would think since 4 tabs a day would be 2mgs now all i have are heavier pills like i stated and the average weight is right at .175 so what do i do now?

 

I dont have any extras of lighter weight and to cut say a .178 or .181 down to .167 or lower to me would be to much..i need your opinion since the average weight went up and it seems at 2mgs and i was at like 1.9mgs wasnt that an updose that i have just been staying at?

 

so what number do i cut these at or do i just chop them and go with it??

 

thanks for getting back to me

 

deep

[[...]]

SG

 

I am doing ok..but with taking the whole pills since they weighed what i needed i have actually not been cutting anything i would think since 4 tabs a day would be 2mgs now all i have are heavier pills like i stated and the average weight is right at .175 so what do i do now?

 

I dont have any extras of lighter weight and to cut say a .178 or .181 down to .167 or lower to me would be to much..i need your opinion since the average weight went up and it seems at 2mgs and i was at like 1.9mgs wasnt that an updose that i have just been staying at?

 

so what number do i cut these at or do i just chop them and go with it??

 

thanks for getting back to me

 

deep

 

Regardless of what the actual average weight is you are now on these pills at a daily weight of .669g (.168g+.167g+.167g+.167g) and you feel okay.  To me that says as long as your daily weight is .669g you will be fine.  I would trust that you can file the heavier pills down and be fine as you are just removing excess K and excess powder.  If the average weight is .175g instead of .172g that is only a 1.7% difference in dose...not a big deal.  But it doesn't matter.  The fact is you are on these pills at a weight of .669g and you feel good.

 

The assumption we make is that these pills were all made from the same batch of powder and so it is the powder weight that matters.  I think this is a good assumption.  I doubt they add the K separately from the powder.  To make them economically it makes much more sense to mix the K into a batch of powder and then try to keep the pill weights close to each other by molding them.  From your measurements we can see they vary more than .010g, which is ~6%.  So I'd say your pill doses vary by ~6% from pill to pill.  That would mean they vary from .485mg to .515mg.  By filing the heavier pills I think you are just getting rid of this extra.

[[de...]]

SG...thank you as always for reassuring me and getting back to me so quickly..

 

now downward i will go

 

 

deep

[[my...]]

Deep, of course, SG helped you make sense of it all....funny how sometimes we temporarily draw a blank and then we get it....with a little help from our friends 

 

Good morning  ☕️🌞....glad SG mentioned filing pills...I had forgotten about that.  In addition to splitting the .5`s I have been scraping and cutting them with a sharp knife.  Better to use a file..it will aid accuracy and decrease the number of little bits and pieces. 

 

First day of MT.....feeling hopeful about this method.  Woke up a bit early with sxs - chest pressure, etc.  but think anxiety about this change played a role.  OK now...on with the day!

 

 

[[Be...]]

Mana,

 

Some cutting tips: You might try initial coarse cuts with pill placed on pill cutter rubber mat area (it grips), and cut either with pill cutter or single edge razor. The pill cutter tray catches cuts and scraps. Hardware stores sell blades with little handle for under $2, easy to grip. Emery boards are definitely a plus, rubbing pill on it while file lays flat, not other way around. I used spare cosmetic brush to dust scale. And 3M sticky flags placed on pill box with amounts written on them. If any of this helps, great. I'd gladly pass on all my paraphernalia but the scale is a little hinky after 14 months, so it will meet it's demise under tire of my car. Onward, with your C/C/H 

 

Bennie

[[my...]]

Great tips, Bennie.  Think I have everything I need here, but nice idea about using a makeup brush for dust...I came up with the post-it pieces for doses a couple of weeks ago..."all great minds" etc. . Wait!  Just re-read your note and saw you meant those little sticky tabs that banks and lawyers use for documents....will get some when I go out again in a bit.

 

Love the visual of the hit and run over your scale 

 

We bought a Gemini scale as recommended by someone here on the site at the beginning of my taper even though I didn't use it much until the past few months.

 

So, I'm good to go.  Oh...I forgot... I never would have thought to lay the file flat....good tip.

 

Thanks for all!

 

Mana

[[my...]]

To our resident experts:

I know you calculated my C/C/H @ 10 cuts of .001 g K every 15 days.  Hmm....SG...you said, correct me please if wrong.... ..001 g = .003 mg right?  So 10 cuts would = .030 mg... Less than I was planning to cut every 10 days and taking two weeks to get there.

 

I know about not focusing on the end date and all but I held for so many months during the past year it feels like I've been tapering forever yet not getting as far as I would like.  Even though I began the MT this morning...what do you think about putting it off for a few more cuts to see if I can tolerate the .03125 cuts every ten days and make some headway, then switch over?  I have all the tools...it just seems as though I am slowing myself down unnecessarily as my sxs were by no means intolerable and have gotten better or less, the lower I have gone.  Now, all that might blow apart with the cuts coming every ten days but we could see.  Maybe??

 

On the other hand, I could TRY and be patient, and as you suggested, accelerate to .001 daily or even more if things go very well....  I think I answered my own question.  Patience in the short term could equal success and even a quicker, more successful taper in the long term....

 

Sorry to be obsessing about this.. 

 

And thanks for any light you might shed. 

 

Mana

[[...]]

To our resident experts:

I know you calculated my C/C/H @ 10 cuts of .001 g K every 15 days.  Hmm....SG...you said, correct me please if wrong.... ..001 g = .003 mg right?  So 10 cuts would = .030 mg... Less than I was planning to cut every 10 days and taking two weeks to get there.

 

I know about not focusing on the end date and all but I held for so many months during the past year it feels like I've been tapering forever yet not getting as far as I would like.  Even though I began the MT this morning...what do you think about putting it off for a few more cuts to see if I can tolerate the .03125 cuts every ten days and make some headway, then switch over?  I have all the tools...it just seems as though I am slowing myself down unnecessarily as my sxs were by no means intolerable and have gotten better or less, the lower I have gone.  Now, all that might blow apart with the cuts coming every ten days but we could see.  Maybe??

 

On the other hand, I could TRY and be patient, and as you suggested, accelerate to .001 daily or even more if things go very well....  I think I answered my own question.  Patience in the short term could equal success and even a quicker, more successful taper in the long term....

 

Sorry to be obsessing about this.. 

 

And thanks for any light you might shed. 

 

Mana

 

You've got it in your head that cut and hold is faster.  It is not faster and it increases symptoms.  Think about it - you remove the drug 10 days ahead of schedule when it could have remained in your body to help with symptoms.  Symptoms are going to be worse.

 

.03125mg over 10 days is .003125mg a day.  If you want to do that rate at least cut it daily...you'll be much better off.  It is your taper, you can do whatever you want.  My suggestion is to begin slower and work your way up, but .001g a day is not unreasonable.

 

You're obsessing over time and it is probably going to take a harsh experience to change that.  That seems to be the rule.

[[bu...]]

 

You've got it in your head that cut and hold is faster.  It is not faster and it increases symptoms.  Think about it - you remove the drug 10 days ahead of schedule when it could have remained in your body to help with symptoms.  Symptoms are going to be worse.

 

.03125mg over 10 days is .003125mg a day.  If you want to do that rate at least cut it daily...you'll be much better off.  It is your taper, you can do whatever you want.  My suggestion is to begin slower and work your way up, but .001g a day is not unreasonable.

 

You're obsessing over time and it is probably going to take a harsh experience to change that.  That seems to be the rule.

  C&H definitely is NOT faster.  In the worst case, a daily taper will take the same amount of time as a C&H.  But since a daily is usually more tolerable, many folks find they can actually go faster with a daily taper.

[[my...]]

SG...I'm so sorry.. I Can tell you're frustrated with your student here and that was not my intention...you are right...I was obsessing.  At the end of my post I answered my own question...that patience is the key for me.  I DID have a harsh experience, SG, at the beginning of my taper.  I went too quickly and was in agony, period. 

 

I believe you are right.  You have the experience to back you up.  I don't and neither, needless to say, does my doctor.

 

I will stick with our plan.  Do the C/C/H for a few weeks and if that seems super smooth then try .001 daily but not until then.

 

Good night..and thanks. 

 

Mana

[[my...]]

Got it, builder  . Thanks for weighing in, confirming SG's statement and reinforcing my decision to hang in and trust the MT process.

 

[[ga...]]

Hello fellow MT-ers. I am trying to do a 10%/month rate this week. Mice in ceiling keeping me awake and trying to destroy my plan! They are really good at eating the bait off the traps without tripping them. And if they do trip them in the night, the noise of them struggling to get out of the trap while they die is very disturbing. I'm thinking a little alprazolam mixed into some peanut butter might put them to sleep for me. Hopefully forever, but maybe just for the night so we can all sleep. 

[[an...]]

 

You've got it in your head that cut and hold is faster.  It is not faster and it increases symptoms.  Think about it - you remove the drug 10 days ahead of schedule when it could have remained in your body to help with symptoms.  Symptoms are going to be worse.

 

.03125mg over 10 days is .003125mg a day.  If you want to do that rate at least cut it daily...you'll be much better off.  It is your taper, you can do whatever you want.  My suggestion is to begin slower and work your way up, but .001g a day is not unreasonable.

 

You're obsessing over time and it is probably going to take a harsh experience to change that.  That seems to be the rule.

  C&H definitely is NOT faster.  In the worst case, a daily taper will take the same amount of time as a C&H.  But since a daily is usually more tolerable, many folks find they can actually go faster with a daily taper.

 

:thumbsup:

[[my...]]

SG,

Good morning 🌞.... 

Back on track and good to go with help from all here.   

One little question about converting grams back to mgs.  For some reason, I can't figure this out!! I tried multiplying the doses times 3 but that didn't work.  I won't put it on my signature until I step down a total of at least .03125 mg but how do you convert, say .075 x 3 times a day back to

mgs? 

 

Thanks...hope you aren't still annoyed with me!!  You know if I had questioned the doctors in the beginning as much as I am questioning here, I never would have gone on Klonopin to begin with. (Closing the gate after the horse is out, etc.)

 

Mana

[[...]]

SG,

Good morning 🌞.... 

Back on track and good to go with help from all here.   

One little question about converting grams back to mgs.  For some reason, I can't figure this out!! I tried multiplying the doses times 3 but that didn't work.  I won't put it on my signature until I step down a total of at least .03125 mg but how do you convert, say .075 x 3 times a day back to

mgs? 

 

Thanks...hope you aren't still annoyed with me!!  You know if I had questioned the doctors in the beginning as much as I am questioning here, I never would have gone on Klonopin to begin with. (Closing the gate after the horse is out, etc.)

 

Mana

 

I was never annoyed MM.  Well, maybe a little, but I did the same thing.  In fact, it is the reason I am still sick - even though I knew I shouldn't push, I did.

 

People make the conversion harder than it is.  Just generate this number and write it down.  It is the amount of K per gram of pill weight...

 

***Full-pill dose divided by full pill weight***

 

That's it.  Write it down.  That is the number of mgs K in a gram of pill weight.  So now whenever you weigh a pill just multiply the weight by that number and it will give you the K dose.

 

For example, say you have a .5mg pill that weighs .172g...

 

.5mg divided by .172g = 2.907mg/g.  This means for each gram of pill weight there will be 2.907mg K in it.  So if your dose weighs, say, .075g then that means you have .075g x 2.907mg/g = .218mg K.  Whatever your weight is, multiply it by the number you generated to get the dose.

[[Cl...]]

Hi Mana, it relaxes me that you are going to start slow in your microtaper! all the best!!! :smitten:

[[my...]]

. Thank you Clona and thanks SO much SG.  Yes..will proceed slowly, Clona 

 

And SG..I wrote it down, worked out where I am today just as a practice and got the correct answer.  Will keep this formula in a safe place.  . I kind of knew your frustration was born of personal experience.

 

Wishing you both health and happiness,

mana     

 

 

[[si...]]

I'm looking for some help here.  I've been tapering off K, dry cutting MT.  I seem to be always getting hit with sx's.  It's been suggested to me that I start LT.  I am pursuing this now.  I am almost down to .15mg.  From what I read in other people, they seem to move at a faster pace and get off this stuff when doing an LT.

 

Last week my pill weighed in at .068g and I cut to .066g.  I did another small cut today down to .064g.  The shakiness I felt today, you'd think I did a 10% cut. 

 

What would I need to do to setup an LT?  I've watched videos, so I know I have to get some equipment.