Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[El...]]

SG, so do you think that the crossover to V was what has caused you so much problems? I just wonder bc that's when the sh#t really hit the fan for me. And why I stopped mid crossover. I have been a mess ever since and that was back in May. Have done nothing to my dose since May and have not seen much improvement. I'm worried being on two different benzos and getting ready to taper one. However I have such horrible muscle pain already don't know if I will even tolerate a taper. I really wish I had never ever tired to cross. Just wondering if you thing your prolonged problems are from the crossover. I'm really very sorry it's been such a struggle for you. Some days I just want to up dose and say forget it bc I may come it of this worse then I already am now. I struggle to grasp how this benzo ordeal is truly real. It's beyond comprehension.

[[ga...]]

 

I did do a long taper.  That is what is so frustrating.  I tapered 30 months yet it was too fast. Here I am 64 months into it and still dealing with significant symptoms.  Whatever happened it's very very stubborn and hard to get rid of.  All avoidable to, if I had tapered properly.  But, what are you going to do.  If I throw enough time at it it will eventually go away.

 

My V cross was okay and V was okay to taper.  But is was not necessary.  The other forum only knew to cross people from K to V.  They advised all K people to cross to V not knowing it was fine to remain on it and taper directly.  It seemed like a good forum, but turned out to be about the worst choice out there.

 

Man, that is so sad to hear. You're right, though, it will improve with enough time. Just so very frustrating. But now we have the advantage, because you are stuck here with us!

And SG is like .  And we are like  .

 

[[...]]

SG, so do you think that the crossover to V was what has caused you so much problems? I just wonder bc that's when the sh#t really hit the fan for me. And why I stopped mid crossover. I have been a mess ever since and that was back in May. Have done nothing to my dose since May and have not seen much improvement. I'm worried being on two different benzos and getting ready to taper one. However I have such horrible muscle pain already don't know if I will even tolerate a taper. I really wish I had never ever tired to cross. Just wondering if you thing your prolonged problems are from the crossover. I'm really very sorry it's been such a struggle for you. Some days I just want to up dose and say forget it bc I may come it of this worse then I already am now. I struggle to grasp how this benzo ordeal is truly real. It's beyond comprehension.

 

No, in my case I was okay crossing and was okay for awhile tapering, until I got down to around 20mg.  But still, it was an unnecessary delay and risk.  Stuff can happen when you cross, as you found out.  I agree it is beyond comprehension and also hard to believe the medical world does not seem to know this is possible, not only for benzos but all psych drugs.

[[an...]]

Hi Gard,

 

You have certainly been through hell.  I am so sorry for everything you have gone through and still going through.  My heart goes out to you. Yes, I think the stress is certainly a factor--even without the benzos.  Don't worry about dissolving the L.  What exactly does it say on the label?  Does it say HCl?  Either way, you will be able to do a liquid taper with it.  I know that others have successfully done it. 

 

I actually did start using vodka for my liquid.  I have not noticed any difference though between using the vodka or just plain old water.  In fact, I need to shake the vodka preparation just as I did the water. 

 

Gard, I hope that you feel better soon. I know you will--it is going to take time.  Hopefully this sleep psychologist will help. So sorry that the nurse started you on these meds. 

 

Have a good night. 

 

Anne

[[an...]]

SG, so do you think that the crossover to V was what has caused you so much problems? I just wonder bc that's when the sh#t really hit the fan for me. And why I stopped mid crossover. I have been a mess ever since and that was back in May. Have done nothing to my dose since May and have not seen much improvement. I'm worried being on two different benzos and getting ready to taper one. However I have such horrible muscle pain already don't know if I will even tolerate a taper. I really wish I had never ever tired to cross. Just wondering if you thing your prolonged problems are from the crossover. I'm really very sorry it's been such a struggle for you. Some days I just want to up dose and say forget it bc I may come it of this worse then I already am now. I struggle to grasp how this benzo ordeal is truly real. It's beyond comprehension.

 

No, in my case I was okay crossing and was okay for awhile tapering, until I got down to around 20mg.  But still, it was an unnecessary delay and risk.  Stuff can happen when you cross, as you found out.  I agree it is beyond comprehension and also hard to believe the medical world does not seem to know this is possible, not only for benzos but all psych drugs.

 

Hi SG,

 

It sounds like you tapered slowly.  What would you have done differently?  I am shocked that you are still having problems. I am so sorry to hear this. These drugs are horrible, and I still can't believe that the medical community will not acknowledge the issues that many people have with these drugs.

Anne

[[ga...]]

SG, so do you think that the crossover to V was what has caused you so much problems? I just wonder bc that's when the sh#t really hit the fan for me. And why I stopped mid crossover. I have been a mess ever since and that was back in May. Have done nothing to my dose since May and have not seen much improvement. I'm worried being on two different benzos and getting ready to taper one. However I have such horrible muscle pain already don't know if I will even tolerate a taper. I really wish I had never ever tired to cross. Just wondering if you thing your prolonged problems are from the crossover. I'm really very sorry it's been such a struggle for you. Some days I just want to up dose and say forget it bc I may come it of this worse then I already am now. I struggle to grasp how this benzo ordeal is truly real. It's beyond comprehension.

 

I'm so sorry to hear you are stuck in a bad place, Elizabeth. I started my crossover to L because I held forever after an X crash and it did no good. The partial cross to L actually helped me and enabled me to pick up tapering again. I often wonder why L isn't suggested more often as a crossover option because it is metabolized by the same enzyme as X and K (3A4). V is much more complicated. I also recently needed to add a regular night-time dose of gabapentin to the mix (yes, risky, I know) because of insomnia and nerve pain stopping me in my tracks in November. It has helped me move forward again. That and my mindfulness program that I bought pretty cheap on amazon (mentioned it earlier, very helpful for pain management).

 

I have those days of wanting to just forget it, too. I think we all do. But I also have this really stubborn streak that keeps me gong even when I'm whining and thinking I'm about to quit any second! I've been that way my whole life. That's why I think mindfulness helps me. It is teaching me to let go of stuff and not always be fighting things. Fighting always worked before, but it sure doesn't work with benzos. I need to teach my mind to work in a way it never has before. Do or die. I've got kids who have nobody but me, so give up is not on the table. Let go and learn to survive, yes, but give up, no.

 

It's a messy war we are fighting, but we'll all figure this out somehow and get through this together.

 

Gard

[[...]]

 

I did do a long taper.  That is what is so frustrating.  I tapered 30 months yet it was too fast. Here I am 64 months into it and still dealing with significant symptoms.  Whatever happened it's very very stubborn and hard to get rid of.  All avoidable to, if I had tapered properly.  But, what are you going to do.  If I throw enough time at it it will eventually go away.

 

My V cross was okay and V was okay to taper.  But is was not necessary.  The other forum only knew to cross people from K to V.  They advised all K people to cross to V not knowing it was fine to remain on it and taper directly.  It seemed like a good forum, but turned out to be about the worst choice out there.

 

Man, that is so sad to hear. You're right, though, it will improve with enough time. Just so very frustrating. But now we have the advantage, because you are stuck here with us!

And SG is like .  And we are like  .

 

Yup, from what I can see you are all stuck with me for a while as I see no end yet.  The months roll by with only slight improvement every few months.  This is where I need to be and my way of dealing with it is to get lost in other peoples tapers.  My way of coping...it works for me.  It's rewarding and positive.

[[El...]]

 

I did do a long taper.  That is what is so frustrating.  I tapered 30 months yet it was too fast. Here I am 64 months into it and still dealing with significant symptoms.  Whatever happened it's very very stubborn and hard to get rid of.  All avoidable to, if I had tapered properly.  But, what are you going to do.  If I throw enough time at it it will eventually go away.

 

My V cross was okay and V was okay to taper.  But is was not necessary.  The other forum only knew to cross people from K to V.  They advised all K people to cross to V not knowing it was fine to remain on it and taper directly.  It seemed like a good forum, but turned out to be about the worst choice out there.

 

Man, that is so sad to hear. You're right, though, it will improve with enough time. Just so very frustrating. But now we have the advantage, because you are stuck here with us!

And SG is like .  And we are like  .

 

Yup, from what I can see you are all stuck with me for a while as I see no end yet.  The months roll by with only slight improvement every few months.  This is where I need to be and my way of dealing with it is to get lost in other peoples tapers.  My way of coping...it works for me.  It's rewarding and positive.

 

We are so lucky to have you. Truly, you are amazing. I really admire you. 

[[...]]

No, in my case I was okay crossing and was okay for awhile tapering, until I got down to around 20mg.  But still, it was an unnecessary delay and risk.  Stuff can happen when you cross, as you found out.  I agree it is beyond comprehension and also hard to believe the medical world does not seem to know this is possible, not only for benzos but all psych drugs.

 

Hi SG,

 

It sounds like you tapered slowly.  What would you have done differently?  I am shocked that you are still having problems. I am so sorry to hear this. These drugs are horrible, and I still can't believe that the medical community will not acknowledge the issues that many people have with these drugs.

Anne

 

Oh boy, if I had it to do again I'd liquify the K and MT all the way off with the goal of being symptom free and not letting the taper affect my life.  I'd go as slow as needed to make that happen, even it if took five years.

[[ga...]]

Thank you, Anne. Yes, I've been living this weird nightmare for many years and keep thinking I'm going to wake up! But, no, I am going to get through it somehow and keep going. It's what I've always done. I pray I am being a good example to my kids and not just their whiner-in-chief.   When they are doing well, I am doing well, so I need to keep being the best mom I can be for all our sakes.

 

Oh gosh, look at the label on the bottle? I guess I should go do that! 

 

It just says chlordiazepox. They didn't even finish the word. Guess I'll have to call and find out. Interesting about the vodka and the water being so similar for you.

 

Thank you for your good wishes. I've been having windows again lately which has been wonderful! I hope you are having them, too!

 

SG, I'm glad you are still seeing little signs of progress and I'm glad have chosen us to be your therapy! We are indeed blessed.

 

Elizabeth, hang in there. There's always hope. I have felt like there was none and found a way around it somehow. You will, too.

 

 

Wishing all a good night's rest and a window-ful tomorrow!

 

Gard

[[El...]]

SG, so do you think that the crossover to V was what has caused you so much problems? I just wonder bc that's when the sh#t really hit the fan for me. And why I stopped mid crossover. I have been a mess ever since and that was back in May. Have done nothing to my dose since May and have not seen much improvement. I'm worried being on two different benzos and getting ready to taper one. However I have such horrible muscle pain already don't know if I will even tolerate a taper. I really wish I had never ever tired to cross. Just wondering if you thing your prolonged problems are from the crossover. I'm really very sorry it's been such a struggle for you. Some days I just want to up dose and say forget it bc I may come it of this worse then I already am now. I struggle to grasp how this benzo ordeal is truly real. It's beyond comprehension.

 

I'm so sorry to hear you are stuck in a bad place, Elizabeth. I started my crossover to L because I held forever after an X crash and it did no good. The partial cross to L actually helped me and enabled me to pick up tapering again. I often wonder why L isn't suggested more often as a crossover option because it is metabolized by the same enzyme as X and K (3A4). V is much more complicated. I also recently needed to add a regular night-time dose of gabapentin to the mix (yes, risky, I know) because of insomnia and nerve pain stopping me in my tracks in November. It has helped me move forward again. That and my mindfulness program that I bought pretty cheap on amazon (mentioned it earlier, very helpful for pain management).

 

I have those days of wanting to just forget it, too. I think we all do. But I also have this really stubborn streak that keeps me gong even when I'm whining and thinking I'm about to quit any second! I've been that way my whole life. That's why I think mindfulness helps me. It is teaching me to let go of stuff and not always be fighting things. Fighting always worked before, but it sure doesn't work with benzos. I need to teach my mind to work in a way it never has before. Do or die. I've got kids who have nobody but me, so give up is not on the table. Let go and learn to survive, yes, but give up, no.

 

It's a messy war we are fighting, but we'll all figure this out somehow and get through this together.

 

Gard

 

thank you for responding gard. I truly am in a bad place. Bc of the mess Valium got me into I am terrified to move forward. Things are so bad I just question everything now bc crossing to v was such a mistake. My next step is to split my Ativan into 4 daily doses instead of two. I am scared what will happen when I do that. I've always been so decisive, that I can't believe how I'm second guessing everything now.

How much neurontin do you take? I am afraid I need to do this. The pain is just so bad.

Also I tried to find the mindfulness program you bought but couldn't locate it in your old posts, do you mind mentioning it again? I will try anything to reduce this pain so I can get through the taper.

 

 

 

[[ga...]]

 

thank you for responding gard. I truly am in a bad place. Bc of the mess Valium got me into I am terrified to move forward. Things are so bad I just question everything now bc crossing to v was such a mistake. My next step is to split my Ativan into 4 daily doses instead of two. I am scared what will happen when I do that. I've always been so decisive, that I can't believe how I'm second guessing everything now.

How much neurontin do you take? I am afraid I need to do this. The pain is just so bad.

Also I tried to find the mindfulness program you bought but couldn't locate it in your old posts, do you mind mentioning it again? I will try anything to reduce this pain so I can get through the taper.

 

The book is called You Are Not Your Pain and comes with a CD. It's a program you follow with a different assignment each week for 8 weeks. All of the guided meditations are on the CD. There is also an audiobook version, too. I like the audiobook because the narrator's voice is so pleasant and I don't focus on the written word as well as I used to. Actually, that would be the US amazon site title. I think the book has a different title in the UK. I go slower than one assignment per week because I have bad days when I don't do it or only do part of it, but that's OK. You can set your own pace.

 

Have you met Maya? I think you could relate to her. She posts here sometimes and was just about frozen with indecisiveness when she was trying to figure out whether to cross or not. Benzos do that to you. I officially inducted her into my Princess of Paranoia club. We were so bad whenever we had to make a decision! Ask SG! He was so patient with both of us.

 

You may find that dosing the ativan more often helps you quite a bit. It is a very short-acting benzo. Twice a day may not be often enough for you. X is supposed to be dosed 4 times and I need to dose it 6 times. Maybe try 3 times and see how that goes first? You get the occasional person who does not do well on more frequent dosing, though I think that's unusual. If you post your current schedule, our resident math guru will help you work out how to dose the V and the A in a way that makes sense and is as simple as possible. He straightened out my totally messed up schedule!

 

Can you ask your primary about the gabapentin? Mine has me on 900mg at bedtime, but I have heard many people on different amounts. I also should mention that I have had neuropathy flare ups from even before I started the benzos. That was from my autoimmune stuff. Now we don't know what's causing it. Your situation is going to be different from mine, so best t ask your doctor. Maybe just dosing your A more frequently will give you some relief.

 

Also, I actually at one point backed up a step on my crossover because I went too fast. It was not pleasant in the short run but was good in the long run. I did not cross all the way, but stopped about half way and continued to taper my X. Then I crossed a bit more. Still tapering my X and still hoping to get lower before I have to cross more.

 

With all those ideas, I suggest you pick one at a time and try it. Changing a lot all at once could leave you wondering what worked and what didn't or in even a worse place than you are now.

 

Since my first change and one that helped me taper the X longer was more frequent dosing, I'd lean that way, but I'd ask SG about a schedule for that. (He's very patient, trust me. You can ask him over and over.)

 

As hard as it is, slow and steady wins the race. 

 

Gard

 

P.S. Just looked at your signature, and I think your dosing schedule may be causing some problems. Give the details (exactly how much of what and at what times) and ask SG what he thinks.

[[El...]]

 

thank you for responding gard. I truly am in a bad place. Bc of the mess Valium got me into I am terrified to move forward. Things are so bad I just question everything now bc crossing to v was such a mistake. My next step is to split my Ativan into 4 daily doses instead of two. I am scared what will happen when I do that. I've always been so decisive, that I can't believe how I'm second guessing everything now.

How much neurontin do you take? I am afraid I need to do this. The pain is just so bad.

Also I tried to find the mindfulness program you bought but couldn't locate it in your old posts, do you mind mentioning it again? I will try anything to reduce this pain so I can get through the taper.

 

 

The book is called You Are Not Your Pain and comes with a CD. It's a program you follow with a different assignment each week for 8 weeks. All of the guided meditations are on the CD. There is also an audiobook version, too. I like the audiobook because the narrator's voice is so pleasant and I don't focus on the written word as well as I used to. Actually, that would be the US amazon site title. I think the book has a different title in the UK. I go slower than one assignment per week because I have bad days when I don't do it or only do part of it, but that's OK. You can set your own pace.

 

Have you met Maya? I think you could relate to her. She posts here sometimes and was just about frozen with indecisiveness when she was trying to figure out whether to cross or not. Benzos do that to you. I officially inducted her into my Princess of Paranoia club. We were so bad whenever we had to make a decision! Ask SG! He was so patient with both of us.

 

You may find that dosing the ativan more often helps you quite a bit. It is a very short-acting benzo. Twice a day may not be often enough for you. X is supposed to be dosed 4 times and I need to dose it 6 times. Maybe try 3 times and see how that goes first? You get the occasional person who does not do well on more frequent dosing, though I think that's unusual. If you post your current schedule, our resident math guru will help you work out how to dose the V and the A in a way that makes sense and is as simple as possible. He straightened out my totally messed up schedule!

 

Can you ask your primary about the gabapentin? Mine has me on 900mg at bedtime, but I have heard many people on different amounts. I also should mention that I have had neuropathy flare ups from even before I started the benzos. That was from my autoimmune stuff. Now we don't know what's causing it. Your situation is going to be different from mine, so best t ask your doctor. Maybe just dosing your A more frequently will give you some relief.

 

Also, I actually at one point backed up a step on my crossover because I went too fast. It was not pleasant in the short run but was good in the long run. I did not cross all the way, but stopped about half way and continued to taper my X. Then I crossed a bit more. Still tapering my X and still hoping to get lower before I have to cross more.

 

With all those ideas, I suggest you pick one at a time and try it. Changing a lot all at once could leave you wondering what worked and what didn't or in even a worse place than you are now.

 

Since my first change and one that helped me taper the X longer was more frequent dosing, I'd lean that way, but I'd ask SG about a schedule for that. (He's very patient, trust me. You can ask him over and over.)

 

As hard as it is, slow and steady wins the race. 

 

Gard

 

P.S. Just looked at your signature, and I think your dosing schedule may be causing some problems. Give the details (exactly how much of what and at what times) and ask SG what he thinks.

 

Thanks again gard. I looked up that program and I am going to order it asap.

As for my schedule, SG was the one who suggested I split the Ativan into 4 doses. (Thanks SG!) He recommend I split the v as well. Like you suggested I am going to do one thing at a time. Split the Ativan first. I actually picked up my compounded Ativan today. .125/ml which I will dose 4x a day to get my total daily dose of .5 A. Seeing the actual syringe and med now, I do wish I had asked the dr to call in a concentration with a higher ml. But I didn't know what to request, should have had it in a 2ml solution or something, it gonna be tricky with such a tiny quantity.

I have not met maya. Yes, this benzo mess has made me second guess everything!

I can get an rx for gabapentin. Neurologist and oncologist have tried to get me to take it. But based on what I have read on here, I have really tried to avoid it. Seems like a lot of people have problems with it. However, I think I am at the point where I am going to have to try it. Eeek! Also, going to update my signature and add other meds. Didn't occur to me to put meds other then benzos on there.

 

[[my...]]

I've been reading through these last several pages with much interest and empathy.  Elizabeth, it's true many have said that Gabapentin is difficult to taper from, but I've not found that to be the case.  My doctor was the one who suggested it, to help with some of my w/d sxs.  I really don't think it did much for them (ear pain was the main one that was plaguing me at the time).  I was taking 600 mg (200 mg 3 x a day) and decided to cut back.  Also I chose to decrease the amount b/c I was having some edema in my ankles, a common side effect of Gabapentin as it causes the body to retain water and evidently, with long time use - and high dosages - can affect the kidneys.  Since I have never had edema, I knew it was connected to the Gaba.  I cut 100 mg a week for 4 weeks with absolutely no problem.  No withdrawal issues.  Nada.  I had been taking the 600 mg for about 4 months I think, maybe a bit less.  I still take 200 mg at night as it may aid sleep but will go off it once I am done with my K taper.  Actually, I think the thing that helps me sleep well most nights is the one Benadryl tablet I take about an hour before bed.  I started doing that in the early days of my taper when cutting larger amounts of K really impacted my sleep.

 

And yes, we are all fortunate beyond words to have SG as a guide and resource and as a voice of calm and reason.  That said, SG, if you decided Monday that you felt well enough to do whatever you would choose to do if you were symptom free I would be really happy for you.  We all would, I think, even though we would be at a complete loss trying to figure what equals what...but for now...know that the job you are doing is beyond valuable to so many. Only repeating what's been said by the rest of you (and me) before.

 

Have a good night, all.

 

Mana

[[ga...]]

 

Thanks again gard. I looked up that program and I am going to order it asap. Gonna see if I can borrow my sisters kindle since she never uses it. I have a hard time reading as well.

As for my schedule,SG was the one who suggested I split the Ativan into 4 doses. (Thanks SG!) He recommend I split the v as well. Like you suggested I am going to do one thing at a time. Split the Ativan first. I actually picked up my compounded Ativan today. .125/ml which I will dose 4x a day to get my total daily dose of .5 A. Seeing the actual syringe and med now, I do wish I had asked the dr to call in a concentration with a higher ml. But I didn't know what to request, should have had it in a 2ml solution or something, it gonna be tricky with such a tiny quantity.

I have not met maya. Yes, this benzo mess has made me second guess everything!

I can get an rx for gabapentin. Neurologist and oncologist have tried to get me to take it. But based on what I have read on here, I have really tried to avoid it. Seems like a lot of people have problems with it. However, I think I am at the point where I am going to have to try it. Eeek! Also, going to update my signature and add other meds. Didn't occur to me to put meds other then benzos on there.

 

Yes, the more dilute your solution, the better. Not sure what kind of liquid you're using and I'm not a chemistry guru, so I can't help you much with that.

 

It would be best to split your A into doses spaced evenly. 4 doses would mean dosing 6 hours apart. 3 doses would be 8 hours apart. 2 doses would be 12 hours apart. Consider each benzo separately when dosing because they each have different onset times and half lives. You want to get each med spread as evenly as possible to keep your blood levels as even as possible. I would try getting your benzo doses even and giving your body time to adjust before  adding in another med. You may find that just getting your dosing more even helps enough so you can move forward.

 

Gabapentin may or may not help. It has helped me some, mostly with sleep and some with neuropathy. It is something that some people have a hard time getting off of and others don't. It has to be tapered up and down like an antidepressant. I'm sure your doctors can explain if you get to that point.

 

You're doing well to make careful choices. You can do this!

 

Gard

 

[[an...]]

 

thank you for responding gard. I truly am in a bad place. Bc of the mess Valium got me into I am terrified to move forward. Things are so bad I just question everything now bc crossing to v was such a mistake. My next step is to split my Ativan into 4 daily doses instead of two. I am scared what will happen when I do that. I've always been so decisive, that I can't believe how I'm second guessing everything now.

How much neurontin do you take? I am afraid I need to do this. The pain is just so bad.

Also I tried to find the mindfulness program you bought but couldn't locate it in your old posts, do you mind mentioning it again? I will try anything to reduce this pain so I can get through the taper.

 

 

The book is called You Are Not Your Pain and comes with a CD. It's a program you follow with a different assignment each week for 8 weeks. All of the guided meditations are on the CD. There is also an audiobook version, too. I like the audiobook because the narrator's voice is so pleasant and I don't focus on the written word as well as I used to. Actually, that would be the US amazon site title. I think the book has a different title in the UK. I go slower than one assignment per week because I have bad days when I don't do it or only do part of it, but that's OK. You can set your own pace.

 

Have you met Maya? I think you could relate to her. She posts here sometimes and was just about frozen with indecisiveness when she was trying to figure out whether to cross or not. Benzos do that to you. I officially inducted her into my Princess of Paranoia club. We were so bad whenever we had to make a decision! Ask SG! He was so patient with both of us.

 

You may find that dosing the ativan more often helps you quite a bit. It is a very short-acting benzo. Twice a day may not be often enough for you. X is supposed to be dosed 4 times and I need to dose it 6 times. Maybe try 3 times and see how that goes first? You get the occasional person who does not do well on more frequent dosing, though I think that's unusual. If you post your current schedule, our resident math guru will help you work out how to dose the V and the A in a way that makes sense and is as simple as possible. He straightened out my totally messed up schedule!

 

Can you ask your primary about the gabapentin? Mine has me on 900mg at bedtime, but I have heard many people on different amounts. I also should mention that I have had neuropathy flare ups from even before I started the benzos. That was from my autoimmune stuff. Now we don't know what's causing it. Your situation is going to be different from mine, so best t ask your doctor. Maybe just dosing your A more frequently will give you some relief.

 

Also, I actually at one point backed up a step on my crossover because I went too fast. It was not pleasant in the short run but was good in the long run. I did not cross all the way, but stopped about half way and continued to taper my X. Then I crossed a bit more. Still tapering my X and still hoping to get lower before I have to cross more.

 

With all those ideas, I suggest you pick one at a time and try it. Changing a lot all at once could leave you wondering what worked and what didn't or in even a worse place than you are now.

 

Since my first change and one that helped me taper the X longer was more frequent dosing, I'd lean that way, but I'd ask SG about a schedule for that. (He's very patient, trust me. You can ask him over and over.)

 

As hard as it is, slow and steady wins the race. 

 

Gard

 

P.S. Just looked at your signature, and I think your dosing schedule may be causing some problems. Give the details (exactly how much of what and at what times) and ask SG what he thinks.

 

Thanks again gard. I looked up that program and I am going to order it asap. Gonna see if I can borrow my sisters kindle since she never uses it. I have a hard time reading as well.

As for my schedule, SG was the one who suggested I split the Ativan into 4 doses. (Thanks SG!) He recommend I split the v as well. Like you suggested I am going to do one thing at a time. Split the Ativan first. I actually picked up my compounded Ativan today. .125/ml which I will dose 4x a day to get my total daily dose of .5 A. Seeing the actual syringe and med now, I do wish I had asked the dr to call in a concentration with a higher ml. But I didn't know what to request, should have had it in a 2ml solution or something, it gonna be tricky with such a tiny quantity.

I have not met maya. Yes, this benzo mess has made me second guess everything!

I can get an rx for gabapentin. Neurologist and oncologist have tried to get me to take it. But based on what I have read on here, I have really tried to avoid it. Seems like a lot of people have problems with it. However, I think I am at the point where I am going to have to try it. Eeek! Also, going to update my signature and add other meds. Didn't occur to me to put meds other then benzos on there.

 

Elizabeth,

 

If your compounded liquid has propylene glycol as a solvent, you will be able to dilute it with water. This will allow you to make smaller cuts when needed and will make it easier to measure your doses.

 

Anne

[[El...]]

 

thank you for responding gard. I truly am in a bad place. Bc of the mess Valium got me into I am terrified to move forward. Things are so bad I just question everything now bc crossing to v was such a mistake. My next step is to split my Ativan into 4 daily doses instead of two. I am scared what will happen when I do that. I've always been so decisive, that I can't believe how I'm second guessing everything now.

How much neurontin do you take? I am afraid I need to do this. The pain is just so bad.

Also I tried to find the mindfulness program you bought but couldn't locate it in your old posts, do you mind mentioning it again? I will try anything to reduce this pain so I can get through the taper.

 

 

The book is called You Are Not Your Pain and comes with a CD. It's a program you follow with a different assignment each week for 8 weeks. All of the guided meditations are on the CD. There is also an audiobook version, too. I like the audiobook because the narrator's voice is so pleasant and I don't focus on the written word as well as I used to. Actually, that would be the US amazon site title. I think the book has a different title in the UK. I go slower than one assignment per week because I have bad days when I don't do it or only do part of it, but that's OK. You can set your own pace.

 

Have you met Maya? I think you could relate to her. She posts here sometimes and was just about frozen with indecisiveness when she was trying to figure out whether to cross or not. Benzos do that to you. I officially inducted her into my Princess of Paranoia club. We were so bad whenever we had to make a decision! Ask SG! He was so patient with both of us.

 

You may find that dosing the ativan more often helps you quite a bit. It is a very short-acting benzo. Twice a day may not be often enough for you. X is supposed to be dosed 4 times and I need to dose it 6 times. Maybe try 3 times and see how that goes first? You get the occasional person who does not do well on more frequent dosing, though I think that's unusual. If you post your current schedule, our resident math guru will help you work out how to dose the V and the A in a way that makes sense and is as simple as possible. He straightened out my totally messed up schedule!

 

Can you ask your primary about the gabapentin? Mine has me on 900mg at bedtime, but I have heard many people on different amounts. I also should mention that I have had neuropathy flare ups from even before I started the benzos. That was from my autoimmune stuff. Now we don't know what's causing it. Your situation is going to be different from mine, so best t ask your doctor. Maybe just dosing your A more frequently will give you some relief.

 

Also, I actually at one point backed up a step on my crossover because I went too fast. It was not pleasant in the short run but was good in the long run. I did not cross all the way, but stopped about half way and continued to taper my X. Then I crossed a bit more. Still tapering my X and still hoping to get lower before I have to cross more.

 

With all those ideas, I suggest you pick one at a time and try it. Changing a lot all at once could leave you wondering what worked and what didn't or in even a worse place than you are now.

 

Since my first change and one that helped me taper the X longer was more frequent dosing, I'd lean that way, but I'd ask SG about a schedule for that. (He's very patient, trust me. You can ask him over and over.)

 

As hard as it is, slow and steady wins the race. 

 

Gard

 

P.S. Just looked at your signature, and I think your dosing schedule may be causing some problems. Give the details (exactly how much of what and at what times) and ask SG what he thinks.

 

Thanks again gard. I looked up that program and I am going to order it asap. Gonna see if I can borrow my sisters kindle since she never uses it. I have a hard time reading as well.

As for my schedule, SG was the one who suggested I split the Ativan into 4 doses. (Thanks SG!) He recommend I split the v as well. Like you suggested I am going to do one thing at a time. Split the Ativan first. I actually picked up my compounded Ativan today. .125/ml which I will dose 4x a day to get my total daily dose of .5 A. Seeing the actual syringe and med now, I do wish I had asked the dr to call in a concentration with a higher ml. But I didn't know what to request, should have had it in a 2ml solution or something, it gonna be tricky with such a tiny quantity.

I have not met maya. Yes, this benzo mess has made me second guess everything!

I can get an rx for gabapentin. Neurologist and oncologist have tried to get me to take it. But based on what I have read on here, I have really tried to avoid it. Seems like a lot of people have problems with it. However, I think I am at the point where I am going to have to try it. Eeek! Also, going to update my signature and add other meds. Didn't occur to me to put meds other then benzos on there.

 

Elizabeth,

 

If your compounded liquid has propylene glycol as a solvent, you will be able to dilute it with water. This will allow you to make smaller cuts when needed and will make it easier to measure your doses.

 

Anne

 

No. Unfortunately it does not. Its made in almond oil with just A and silica. Wondering if I should ask dr for a different rx to increase ML. Have tried drawing it up (not taking it yet) and getting huge air bubbles, working with such a tiny amount is going to be so much harder then I realized.

[[an...]]

 

thank you for responding gard. I truly am in a bad place. Bc of the mess Valium got me into I am terrified to move forward. Things are so bad I just question everything now bc crossing to v was such a mistake. My next step is to split my Ativan into 4 daily doses instead of two. I am scared what will happen when I do that. I've always been so decisive, that I can't believe how I'm second guessing everything now.

How much neurontin do you take? I am afraid I need to do this. The pain is just so bad.

Also I tried to find the mindfulness program you bought but couldn't locate it in your old posts, do you mind mentioning it again? I will try anything to reduce this pain so I can get through the taper.

 

 

The book is called You Are Not Your Pain and comes with a CD. It's a program you follow with a different assignment each week for 8 weeks. All of the guided meditations are on the CD. There is also an audiobook version, too. I like the audiobook because the narrator's voice is so pleasant and I don't focus on the written word as well as I used to. Actually, that would be the US amazon site title. I think the book has a different title in the UK. I go slower than one assignment per week because I have bad days when I don't do it or only do part of it, but that's OK. You can set your own pace.

 

Have you met Maya? I think you could relate to her. She posts here sometimes and was just about frozen with indecisiveness when she was trying to figure out whether to cross or not. Benzos do that to you. I officially inducted her into my Princess of Paranoia club. We were so bad whenever we had to make a decision! Ask SG! He was so patient with both of us.

 

You may find that dosing the ativan more often helps you quite a bit. It is a very short-acting benzo. Twice a day may not be often enough for you. X is supposed to be dosed 4 times and I need to dose it 6 times. Maybe try 3 times and see how that goes first? You get the occasional person who does not do well on more frequent dosing, though I think that's unusual. If you post your current schedule, our resident math guru will help you work out how to dose the V and the A in a way that makes sense and is as simple as possible. He straightened out my totally messed up schedule!

 

Can you ask your primary about the gabapentin? Mine has me on 900mg at bedtime, but I have heard many people on different amounts. I also should mention that I have had neuropathy flare ups from even before I started the benzos. That was from my autoimmune stuff. Now we don't know what's causing it. Your situation is going to be different from mine, so best t ask your doctor. Maybe just dosing your A more frequently will give you some relief.

 

Also, I actually at one point backed up a step on my crossover because I went too fast. It was not pleasant in the short run but was good in the long run. I did not cross all the way, but stopped about half way and continued to taper my X. Then I crossed a bit more. Still tapering my X and still hoping to get lower before I have to cross more.

 

With all those ideas, I suggest you pick one at a time and try it. Changing a lot all at once could leave you wondering what worked and what didn't or in even a worse place than you are now.

 

Since my first change and one that helped me taper the X longer was more frequent dosing, I'd lean that way, but I'd ask SG about a schedule for that. (He's very patient, trust me. You can ask him over and over.)

 

As hard as it is, slow and steady wins the race. 

 

Gard

 

P.S. Just looked at your signature, and I think your dosing schedule may be causing some problems. Give the details (exactly how much of what and at what times) and ask SG what he thinks.

 

Thanks again gard. I looked up that program and I am going to order it asap. Gonna see if I can borrow my sisters kindle since she never uses it. I have a hard time reading as well.

As for my schedule, SG was the one who suggested I split the Ativan into 4 doses. (Thanks SG!) He recommend I split the v as well. Like you suggested I am going to do one thing at a time. Split the Ativan first. I actually picked up my compounded Ativan today. .125/ml which I will dose 4x a day to get my total daily dose of .5 A. Seeing the actual syringe and med now, I do wish I had asked the dr to call in a concentration with a higher ml. But I didn't know what to request, should have had it in a 2ml solution or something, it gonna be tricky with such a tiny quantity.

I have not met maya. Yes, this benzo mess has made me second guess everything!

I can get an rx for gabapentin. Neurologist and oncologist have tried to get me to take it. But based on what I have read on here, I have really tried to avoid it. Seems like a lot of people have problems with it. However, I think I am at the point where I am going to have to try it. Eeek! Also, going to update my signature and add other meds. Didn't occur to me to put meds other then benzos on there.

 

Elizabeth,

 

If your compounded liquid has propylene glycol as a solvent, you will be able to dilute it with water. This will allow you to make smaller cuts when needed and will make it easier to measure your doses.

 

Anne

 

No. Unfortunately it does not. Its made in almond oil with just A and silica. Wondering if I should ask dr for a different rx to increase ML. Have tried drawing it up (not taking it yet) and getting huge air bubbles, working with such a tiny amount is going to be so much harder then I realized.

 

Yes, it is more difficult, but certainly can be done. It will definitely take some practice with the syringe. How is it dispensed?  I believe you said that you have 1 mL = 0.125 mg. How many mL total in the container? 

[[El...]]

Anne, there are 45 ml in bottle. And it is .125/1ml

 

Mana, thanks for your comments about gabapentin. I am glad you mentioned the edmea issue. I bet I can't even take that because I already have lymphedema bc of lymphnode removal from cancer. I will bring it up with the dr that manages the lymphedema. Thank you.

[[...]]

Elizabeth,

 

If your compounded liquid has propylene glycol as a solvent, you will be able to dilute it with water. This will allow you to make smaller cuts when needed and will make it easier to measure your doses.

 

Anne

 

No. Unfortunately it does not. Its made in almond oil with just A and silica. Wondering if I should ask dr for a different rx to increase ML. Have tried drawing it up (not taking it yet) and getting huge air bubbles, working with such a tiny amount is going to be so much harder then I realized.

 

I know bubbles are a worry, but you really can ignore the big one at the top (and actually you should to get an accurate dose).  As long as the tip of the syringe remains submersed in the liquid while you are drawing it up with the plunger you will get exactly the right dose.  This is a basic principle of physics called "displacement."  The amount the plunger moves will be replaced with exactly that amount of liquid even if there is a bubble at the top.  The extra liquid is in the syringe tip and is equal to the bubble amount.  Tiny bubbles away from the top are not the same thing and came in as part of the liquid.  Hopefully there won't be many of these and they can be ignored.

[[bu...]]

[

I know bubbles are a worry, but you really can ignore the big one at the top (and actually you should to get an accurate dose).  As long as the tip of the syringe remains submersed in the liquid while you are drawing it up with the plunger you will get exactly the right dose.  This is a basic principle of physics called "displacement."  The amount the plunger moves will be replaced with exactly that amount of liquid even if there is a bubble at the top.  The extra liquid is in the syringe tip and is equal to the bubble amount. Tiny bubbles away from the top are not the same thing and came in as part of the liquid.  Hopefully there won't be many of these and they can be ignored.

 

 

:thumbsup:

[[my...]]

Elizabeth,

Just wondering if your doctor prescribed the Celebrex, 100 mg to be taken twice a day.  I have a prescription for it, for the last time I had back problems, and the amount prescribed was only for 100 mg once a day, and I was in a lot of pain (sciatica) so just check.  It is not an habit forming drug, but I don't think it is to be taken more than once a day and one has to be certain not to take any other NSAID's the day you take it (ibuprofen, aspirin, etc).  If you have more pain without it, then you have some form of inflammation going on which likely has nothing to do with withdrawal from benzos.  Just be careful, OK?  Celebrex is in that class of drugs, one of which, Vioxx, was taken off the market in the U.S.  It is not indicated for anyone with heart or circulation issues.

 

Good luck with all of this.  Pain is one thing that can really get you down...I know...been there!  The worst w/d symptom for me has been ear pain and pressure but as I go lower in my total dose, it seems to be less and less of an issue, thank goodness. In addition, often pain can keep us from exercising if it affects our back, hip, or knee...and as we all know, exercise - gentle or more strenuous is extremely helpful during withdrawal as it counters the stress that builds in our body due to the decrease in benzo.  None of this is easy!!!  But time is a healer....I do believe that. 

 

Mana

[[El...]]

Elizabeth,

Just wondering if your doctor prescribed the Celebrex, 100 mg to be taken twice a day.  I have a prescription for it, for the last time I had back problems, and the amount prescribed was only for 100 mg once a day, and I was in a lot of pain (sciatica) so just check.  It is not an habit forming drug, but I don't think it is to be taken more than once a day and one has to be certain not to take any other NSAID's the day you take it (ibuprofen, aspirin, etc).  If you have more pain without it, then you have some form of inflammation going on which likely has nothing to do with withdrawal from benzos.  Just be careful, OK?  Celebrex is in that class of drugs, one of which, Vioxx, was taken off the market in the U.S.  It is not indicated for anyone with heart or circulation issues.

 

Good luck with all of this.  Pain is one thing that can really get you down...I know...been there!  The worst w/d symptom for me has been ear pain and pressure but as I go lower in my total dose, it seems to be less and less of an issue, thank goodness. In addition, often pain can keep us from exercising if it affects our back, hip, or knee...and as we all know, exercise - gentle or more strenuous is extremely helpful during withdrawal as it counters the stress that builds in our body due to the decrease in benzo.  None of this is easy!!!  But time is a healer....I do believe that. 

 

Mana

 

Yes, it is rx'd for twice daily. Thank you. Also I'm not sure my inability to stop it has anything to do with inflammation in the body. I was not in pain before benzo withdrawal. Pain started after I cut dose. Although no one recognized the correlation in symptoms with cut. So I was placed on it in an attempt to manage pain. When I've tried to decrease it, all, my benzo withdrawal symptoms worsen, which includes pain. Swear my nervous system is just a train wreck.

[[El...]]

Elizabeth,

 

If your compounded liquid has propylene glycol as a solvent, you will be able to dilute it with water. This will allow you to make smaller cuts when needed and will make it easier to measure your doses.

 

Anne

 

No. Unfortunately it does not. Its made in almond oil with just A and silica. Wondering if I should ask dr for a different rx to increase ML. Have tried drawing it up (not taking it yet) and getting huge air bubbles, working with such a tiny amount is going to be so much harder then I realized.

 

I know bubbles are a worry, but you really can ignore the big one at the top (and actually you should to get an accurate dose).  As long as the tip of the syringe remains submersed in the liquid while you are drawing it up with the plunger you will get exactly the right dose.  This is a basic principle of physics called "displacement."  The amount the plunger moves will be replaced with exactly that amount of liquid even if there is a bubble at the top.  The extra liquid is in the syringe tip and is equal to the bubble amount.  Tiny bubbles away from the top are not the same thing and came in as part of the liquid.  Hopefully there won't be many of these and they can be ignored.

 

Thanks SG. Will have to just take your word for it and try not to worry. the displacement you explained isn't making sense to me. Sometimes I see a large bubble equiv to .05ml at the bottom of the syringe, not seeing a bubble at the top. Sometimes I see little bubbles. And on a rare occasion, I haven't seen a bubble. I've practiced on drawing up but haven't started yet. Been a mess since being on an antibiotic and waiting for things to settle. Seems like it's a lot of inconsistency though with different bubbles I'm seeing.

[[my...]]

Sorry!  I'm surely not qualified to give any medical advice....so shouldn't have done it... Wishing you well.